2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Chump Bailey]

5 minutes ago, MrJL said:

I don't  think I saw any linebackers taken  in the first in those mocks

 

Drew Sanders will go in the later portion of the 1st. It's preordained since I took him for the Giants @#25  

[Skinsinparadise]

Nick Saldiveri. I watched an interview on GMF this morning.  Came off well.  So I dove in a little.

 

Played right tackle at Old Dominion but expected to play guard.  And played some center at the Senior Bowl.  He's 6 '6, 318.  9.48 RAS.  33 plus inch arms.

 

Couldn't find much, highlights and one game.  I don't have a good feel for him transitioning to guard aside from he seemed to anchor and mirror well in pass protection and that's even easier to do at guard versus tackle.  Wasn't the best at maintaining blocks and his balance wasn't hot so he has some core stifness.

 

But he comes off a smart dude, with high athletic measurables and with nice size.  So intriguing prospect.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[seantaylor=god]

This is an interesting mock:

 

https://www.nfl.com/_amp/bucky-brooks-2023-nfl-mock-draft-4-0-patriots-nab-bijan-robinson-ravens-select-a

 

If it fell that way, I’m not taking Joey Porter, Jr. I would try and trade down and if I can’t probably go Wright.

 

If Baltimore offered a trade back, would you take it? Who would you be targeting?
 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

 

 

Starting to feel confident that Wright is the pick if he's there at #16

[Skinsinparadise]

Speaking of projects at guard with nice size and athletic upside.  I've been watching Anthony Bradford on and off for weeks, but refrained from talking about him because I've had a hard time forming an opinion.

 

But screw it, my opinion is to have no strong opinion, positive or negative.

 

I like Braden Daniels as a LT convert to guard better than I like Bradford and Saldiveri.  I also like Sidy Sow better too from what I can see of him.  But all are projects, that I'd be cool rolling the dice in the 5th-7th round range. 

 

But I'd say IMO Bradford has the best upside among those projects.  He's a pile mover in the run game.  And can move too -- not quite 2nd level mover but close to it.  They used him to pull for gap runs.

 

As a pass protector he's inconsistent -- anchors well at times but also gets beat and his balance isn't hot.  Like most big guys like him, he's better moving forward.

 

He's IMO sort of like a poor man's Darnell Wright, if Wright played guard.  A good O line coach could likely turn him into a good player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

30 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Starting to feel confident that Wright is the pick if he's there at #16

Would you take him at #16 or move back ?

[Skinsinparadise]

Watching NFL Network and a reporter covering the Packers believe they want to trade down.  So them at 13, the Jets at 15 ahead of us apparently want to trade down.

 

Might not be a piece of cake to trade down 

[Est.1974]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watching NFL Network and a reporter covering the Packers believe they want to trade down.  So them at 13, the Jets at 15 ahead of us apparently want to trade down.

 

Might not be a piece of cake to trade down 

Might have to keep realistic expectations in terms of what trade value we could get. 
 

Or, you have to be prepared to go all in on a trade back and move out to say 29-31 for example. Even 32 & 49 is a balanced trade with PITT for our 16. They end up with 16 and 17. We’d be out of the first, no 5th year option pick. But with 3 seconds.

 

Those are 13/15 might only be looking to go back to say 20 so yeah it may be competitive on the phones.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Might have to keep realistic expectations in terms of what trade value we could get. 
 

Or, you have to be prepared to go all in on a trade back and move out to say 29-31 for example. Even 32 & 49 is a balanced trade with PITT for our 16. They end up with 16 and 17. We’d be out of the first, no 5th year option pick. But with 3 seconds.

 

Those are 13/15 might only be looking to go back to say 20 so yeah it may be competitive on the phones.

 

Tomorrow is when the rumors tend to get more fun typically, the day before.  And all day Thursday leading up to the draft start is a ton of fun for me with all the narratives, some true and some BS.

 

I'd say this week the vibe i am getting is the tackles come off soon.  And the CBs happen closer to our pick.   I am guessing Banks or D. Wright will be at 16, and that could be our anchor to trade back.  I've heard we like both players.  But I also keep hearing they still would rather trade down than anything else.

 

To me the most interesting player in a trade down would be Anton Harrison followed by Matthew Bergeron.  IMO they are the next best run of tackles after the usual top 3 mentioned.  Personally i like Harrison over B. Jones and Wright.  I like Wright.  I am OK with B. Jones but not as high on him as some.  

 

Borth Harrison and Bergeron are high floor players.  And IMO there is a big drop off at tackle once they are gone.  And i am getting the vibe that neither escape the late first round or at a minimum won't last until 47. 

 

The good and bad about Harrison.  He's a natural LT, which is good long term.  But he doesn't IMO have the position flex that Rivera typically likes -- I can't see him at guard.  Bergeron could play both guard and tackle -- but at tackle he's probably better suited to RT.

 

I have to think about it some more but if they trade down deep into the first, I think I like Bergeron better than Torrence and Avila.  I like Mauch too better than Torrence and Avila.  But i know that's an off beat take compared to the draft media.  But more on point of course is what do they think?  Bergeron might not be a crazy pick IMO in the late first.  Harrison would make a ton of sense as to a high floor pass protecting LT -- but he doesn't come off a guard or RT so if they took him would they let go of Leno?  From that context, it wouldn't feel as much like a win now, plug and play move.

 

If they want a guard -- they can likely wait to the third round -- Steen, Zavala.  But tackle is likely going to suck after the first round or pre pick 47.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[actorguy1]

New JP Finlay Pod:

 

If Bijan Robinson makes it to 16 there will be real discussion had in the FO about whether to take him.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, actorguy1 said:

New JP Finlay Pod:

 

If Bijan Robinson makes it to 16 there will be real discussion had in the FO about whether to take him.

 

His opinion or something he heard?

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've heard we like both players.  But I also keep hearing they still would rather trade down than anything else.

Agreed. Probably the lure of more picks wins the deal over players they ‘really like’ still available at #16. 

1 minute ago, actorguy1 said:

New JP Finlay Pod:

 

If Bijan Robinson makes it to 16 there will be real discussion had in the FO about whether to take him.

Eric has spoken about himself in the third person and said, Eric wants a damn elite RB please.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Tomorrow is when the rumors tend to get more fun typically, the day before.  And all day Thursday leading up to the draft start is a ton of fun for me with all the narratives, some true and some BS.

 

I'd say this week the vibe i am getting is the tackles come off soon.  And the CBs happen closer to our pick.   I am guessing Banks or D. Wright will be at 16, and that could be our anchor to trade back.  I've heard we like both players.  But I also keep hearing they still would rather trade down than anything else.

 

To me the most interesting player in a trade down would be Anton Harrison followed by Matthew Bergeron.  IMO they are the next best run of tackles after the usual top 3 mentioned.  Personally i like Harrison over B. Jones and Wright.  I like Wright.  I am OK with B. Jones but not as high on him as some.  

 

Borth Harrison and Bergeron are high floor players.  And IMO there is a big drop off at tackle once they are gone.  And i am getting the vibe that neither escape the late first round or at a minimum won't last until 47. 

 

The good and bad about Harrison.  He's a natural LT, which is good long term.  But he doesn't IMO have the position flex that Rivera typically likes -- I can't see him at guard.  Bergeron could play both guard and tackle -- but at tackle he's probably better suited to RT.

 

I have to think about it some more but if they trade down deep into the first, I think I like Bergeron better than Torrence and Avila.  I like Mauch too better than Torrence and Avila.  But i know that's an off beat take compared to the draft media.  But more on point of course is what do they think?  Bergeron might not be a crazy pick IMO in the late first.  Harrison would make a ton of sense as to a high floor pass protecting LT -- but he doesn't come off a guard or RT so if they took him would they let go of Leno?  From that context, it wouldn't feel as much like a win now, plug and play move.

 

If they want a guard -- they can likely wait to the third round -- Steen, Zavala.  But tackle is likely going to suck after the first round or pre pick 47.

 

 

 

With you on Mauch and Bergeron over Torrence and Avila. I don't think it's close either.

[method man]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Tomorrow is when the rumors tend to get more fun typically, the day before.  And all day Thursday leading up to the draft start is a ton of fun for me with all the narratives, some true and some BS.

 

I'd say this week the vibe i am getting is the tackles come off soon.  And the CBs happen closer to our pick.   I am guessing Banks or D. Wright will be at 16, and that could be our anchor to trade back.  I've heard we like both players.  But I also keep hearing they still would rather trade down than anything else.

 

To me the most interesting player in a trade down would be Anton Harrison followed by Matthew Bergeron.  IMO they are the next best run of tackles after the usual top 3 mentioned.  Personally i like Harrison over B. Jones and Wright.  I like Wright.  I am OK with B. Jones but not as high on him as some.  

 

Borth Harrison and Bergeron are high floor players.  And IMO there is a big drop off at tackle once they are gone.  And i am getting the vibe that neither escape the late first round or at a minimum won't last until 47. 

 

The good and bad about Harrison.  He's a natural LT, which is good long term.  But he doesn't IMO have the position flex that Rivera typically likes -- I can't see him at guard.  Bergeron could play both guard and tackle -- but at tackle he's probably better suited to RT.

 

I have to think about it some more but if they trade down deep into the first, I think I like Bergeron better than Torrence and Avila.  I like Mauch too better than Torrence and Avila.  But i know that's an off beat take compared to the draft media.  But more on point of course is what do they think?  Bergeron might not be a crazy pick IMO in the late first.  Harrison would make a ton of sense as to a high floor pass protecting LT -- but he doesn't come off a guard or RT so if they took him would they let go of Leno?  From that context, it wouldn't feel as much like a win now, plug and play move.

 

If they want a guard -- they can likely wait to the third round -- Steen, Zavala.  But tackle is likely going to suck after the first round or pre pick 47.

 

 

Paulsen saying on his pod that one of his buddies who is an NFL OL coach would take Bergeron in the 1st. Confirms my thinking last week where my comp for him is Tyler Smith with higher character but a little less athleticism 

[KDawg]

I’ve been on the Bergeron bandwagon from the beginning. Issue with that is he will likely be available in the early second. Taking him at 16 is a tough sell.

 

Meanwhile, I stick with it. If Gibbs is there at 16 I’d think long and hard about drafting him.

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, method man said:

Paulsen saying on his pod that one of his buddies who is an NFL OL coach would take Bergeron in the 1st. Confirms my thinking last week where my comp for him is Tyler Smith with higher character but a little less athleticism 

Sounds good to me. Trade back, add a couple of extra picks then take him. Appears like a very sound move. 

[actorguy1]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

His opinion or something he heard?

Sounded like something he heard.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’ve been on the Bergeron bandwagon from the beginning. Issue with that is he will likely be available in the early second. Taking him at 16 is a tough sell.

 

 

Yep i know, you are the one who brought him up, it compelled me to watch him before the Senior Bowl.

 

I liked him after watching him but I am liking him even more now considering he's considered, high character, who loves football -- and conversely guys like Wright and Dawand have been questioned on that front.

 

I am not thinking at all at 16 but per my post -- but if they trade down in the late first.  Bergeron and harrison are on the table for me in the late first.  There isn't IMO much depth at tackle.  After them, plenty of question marks IMO.  

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/syracuse-university-matthew-bergeron-buffalo-bills-nfl-draft-ryan-fowler/article_2cf602ea-d88c-11ed-8fd1-03166642ce80.html

“Matthew looks like the best tackle here,” Paul Alexander, the longtime former Cincinnati Bengals offensive line coach, told The News in Mobile. “He has really good recovery. He’s smart. He’ll be a left tackle, for sure. If you want to make him mad, tell him you think he’s a guard. He won’t like that.”

 

A Montreal native, Bergeron became the first freshman to start at tackle for Syracuse in nearly 20 years in 2019, and has started 35 games in his final three years.  

 

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Meanwhile, I stick with it. If Gibbs is there at 16 I’d think long and hard about drafting him.

 

Gibbs is likely a super star, I love the player too, but I think you can get him too by trading down further in the first

Edited April 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

30 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

With you on Mauch and Bergeron over Torrence and Avila. I don't think it's close either.

 

Not close? Wow. It is for me

 

I'd take Torrence over Avila and Mauch without batting an eye though I like both; however Bergeron would be ranked #1 overall of the four.

[Est.1974]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

“Matthew looks like the best tackle here,” Paul Alexander, the longtime former Cincinnati Bengals offensive line coach, told The News in Mobile. “He has really good recovery. He’s smart. He’ll be a left tackle, for sure. If you want to make him mad, tell him you think he’s a guard. He won’t like that.”

 

A Montreal native, Bergeron became the first freshman to start at tackle for Syracuse in nearly 20 years in 2019, and has started 35 games in his final three years.  

That’s really the kind of pick I’d be all in for after a trade back. 
 

#16 simply has to be that potential ‘elite’ player that’s dropped, even if it is RB, TE or Edge etc.

 

End of the first, yeah just get me a bloody good player.

[Skinsinparadise]

McDonald would be wicked in that role for Dallas interchanging with Parsons.  I mentioned him among others in that type of role here.  But it never occured to me that Dallas might want to double up with having sort of multipe rover type pass rushers. 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

That’s really the kind of pick I’d be all in for after a trade back. 
 

#16 simply has to be that potential ‘elite’ player that’s dropped, even if it is RB, TE or Edge etc.

 

End of the first, yeah just get me a bloody good player.

 

Bergeron or Harrison in a trade back would feel a lot like the trade back last year for Dotson.  Where they take a player that many mocks have going in the 2nd round -- so it won't feel sexy and I'd bet like the Dotson pick it would be trashed by some of the non regulars here -- but nontheless, they are good high floor players -- solid picks.

 

I am a BPA guy for the most part so I am not stuck on drafting to a position.  But the more time has marched on the more it feels like tackle is the one spot where the board won't be that friendly to them and the depth is horrible IMO so they might feel compelled to make a move earlier than later.  

 

TE, CB, S, LB, Edge, RB, C -- for different reasons -- there is good depth or later in the draft is when most are projected to go -- where it feels like they have a ton of flexibility.  The depth at guard IMO isn't hot either but you can likely find one through the 3rd round.

 

If they are detemined to trade down -- the one way where they can sort of have their cake and eat it too is take a tackle in the late first, and i am guessing the options are Harrison and Bergeron -- and then use the extra picks to go BPA.  i am not saying that's what i'd do.  but thinking it might be what they do.  Dawand Jones is a wildcard to me -- guessing he might be out with them but I don't know.  I like the player but the narrative around him has turned me off.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

Will McDonald to Dallas doesn’t sit well within me. Rate him a lot.

[KDawg]

I’m not a big fan of Avila. I wouldn’t take him until round 3 at the earliest.

[method man]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep i know, you are the one who brought him up, it compelled me to watch him before the Senior Bowl.

 

I liked him after watching him but I am liking him even more now considering he's considered, high character, who loves football -- and conversely guys like Wright and Dawand have been questioned on that front.

 

I am not thinking at all at 16 but per my post -- but if they trade down in the late first.  Bergeron and harrison are on the table for me in the late first.  There isn't IMO much depth at tackle.  After them, plenty of question marks IMO.  

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/syracuse-university-matthew-bergeron-buffalo-bills-nfl-draft-ryan-fowler/article_2cf602ea-d88c-11ed-8fd1-03166642ce80.html

“Matthew looks like the best tackle here,” Paul Alexander, the longtime former Cincinnati Bengals offensive line coach, told The News in Mobile. “He has really good recovery. He’s smart. He’ll be a left tackle, for sure. If you want to make him mad, tell him you think he’s a guard. He won’t like that.”

 

A Montreal native, Bergeron became the first freshman to start at tackle for Syracuse in nearly 20 years in 2019, and has started 35 games in his final three years.  

 

 

Gibbs is likely a super star, I love the player too, but I think you can get him too by trading down further in the first

I wasn’t originally a Bergeron guy but have gravitated more toward him because he has a floor as a starting guard with Pro Bowl potential and could be a tackle if he cleans up his technique. (I was on the Dawand train very early but I am off of him a bit as more and more gets out there regarding potential character concerns.)

 

Bergeron doesn’t excite me at 16 but I would take him in the mid to late 20s

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I’ve been on the Bergeron bandwagon from the beginning. Issue with that is he will likely be available in the early second. Taking him at 16 is a tough sell.

 

Meanwhile, I stick with it. If Gibbs is there at 16 I’d think long and hard about drafting him.

Paulsen thinks Gibbs is unlikely here because his pass pro is bad and EB really values that in his backs

32 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m not a big fan of Avila. I wouldn’t take him until round 3 at the earliest.

Agreed. I don’t want him. 

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, method man said:

I wasn’t originally a Bergeron guy but have gravitated more toward him because he has a floor as a starting guard with Pro Bowl potential and could be a tackle if he cleans up his technique. (I was on the Dawand train very early but I am off of him a bit as more and more gets out there regarding potential character concerns.)

 

Bergeron doesn’t excite me at 16 but I would take him in the mid to late 20s

Paulsen thinks Gibbs is unlikely here because his pass pro is bad and EB really values that in his backs

 

 

I ironically just listened to that Logan Paulsen podcast you are referencing.  

 

I am on the same page with Paulsen on some of his points.  We both have draft man crushes on Keion White.   We both like Banks over Porter.  We both like Harrison and like him over B. Jones. We both see Bergeron as sort of the last of the Mohicans at tackle and see him as a good fit here.    Like him, i do agree that Josh Whyle is underrated. 

 

My one disagreement with him is he's not high on the fit of Dalton Kincaid to this team but he seems to have backed off on that recently.  And your take the other day about the TE from what I recall echo Paulsen's thoughts on it -- specifically as to them being high on who they have internally.  But I am getting the impression that the FO might have shifted in that thinking recently as to interest in a TE and if so I gather Bieiniemy is the reason for it.

 

But lol yeah I've listened to Logan Paulsen put cold water on the TE talk again and again.   He thinks the spot is all about traits.  And Armani Rodgers has all the tools. Cole Turner with the catch radius and Curtis Hodges has bulked up in the off season. My come back to that is none of them showed last year that they are durable.  To their defense its a tough spot to maintain durability.  Ditto Logan Thomas through his career.   So even if they have enough of them as to numbers -- what are the odds that they are all healthy to start the season?

 

And are we really riding on a dude who caught 5 passes in his pro-college career combined?  I get betting on traits.  But to just assume he's the ticket seems  aggressive for my taste.   Hodges is an undrafted free agent.  Cole Turner was one of my favs in the last draft, but he couldn't stay healthy in year 1.  And Logan Thomas if I recall was the worst blocking TE in the NFL last year.    So while i get Logan's take that hey we might have the answers at TE, so there might not be the need to do anything -- I disagree with him about that albiet he's backed off the point some recently.  But everything else almost I am on the same page with him. 

 

I heard his take about Gibbs.  Will see.  Definitely not something he heard but something he is guessing about.  I can't see them chasing Gibbs though unless he falls to their 2nd round pick.

 

As for Bergeron I brought him up in the context of trading down deep in the first -- I didn't say 16, don't think anyone else here said 16 either.  So i think we are all on the same page.

 

Like @KDawg I'd be good with Gibbs.  I'd be good with B. Robinson, too.  I am open to a lot of things right now.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise