2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

The thing about Corners is there almost always tends to be a run on them late in the 1st. Those are the teams that are title contenders and want to stock up on talented and cheap DBs. So you might think it'd be wise to not take one at 16 thinking there will be a good one in the 2nd round, but will they last till 47? I like Ringo a lot more now than before the process began and I think teams will scoop him up before he even makes it 5 picks past the 2nd.

 

As the PFF guy said, and I agree, there tends to be a run on offensive tackles early and the pool of upper tier tackles is shallower than CB.

 

I think the depth at CB and Edge is special.  

[mhd24]

Listened to Lombardi's latest podcast and he did a 180 on Richardson vs. Levis.  Said he loves the athletic ability of Richardson, but wouldn't take him anywhere near #4.  Said while Levis is robotic and has questions, he's much more ready than Richardson is.  Said he hears Richardson won't get anywhere near the top 10.

 

Also said that during the season, watching TV, he thought Meyer was Baby Gronk.  After watching the tape, he said he wasn't, and was VERY intrigued by Darnell Washington.  Said he'll be a match nightmare and has unique quickness for a big man.

[Warhead36]

Meyer doesn't have Gronk's athleticism. He'll be a solid TE but I don't see him being special. Not worth taking at 16. 

 

The only TE worth considering at 16 is Washington because of his insane athleticism and upside as both a receiver AND a blocker.

[Stone Cold]

I would love a 1-3 of:
Paris Johnson

Kelee Ringo

Drew Sanders

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

57 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Meyer doesn't have Gronk's athleticism. He'll be a solid TE but I don't see him being special. Not worth taking at 16. 

 

The only TE worth considering at 16 is Washington because of his insane athleticism and upside as both a receiver AND a blocker.

 

Mayer also doesn't have Gronk's size. For a do-it-all gritty blocking TE, his size is a little small. Gronk has almost 3 extra inches of arm length over Mayer. Mayer's got pretty good hand size, so that's not a knock in the slightest, but Gronk had oven mitts for hands.

 

Physically, Mayer is not the same caliber as Gronk.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Ivan Pace is the only guy I can really think of that fits the bill as a good blitzer from inside. Though if someone mentions someone else I'll watch them.

 

Ron Rivera (or was it Mayhew?) recently had comments I think you posted here about benefits of interior pressure and the feeling they wanted more of it. Guys like Simpson don't fit that, he pressures from looping around to the outside.

[bird_1972]

48 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Ivan Pace is the only guy I can really think of that fits the bill as a good blitzer from inside. Though if someone mentions someone else I'll watch them.

 

Ron Rivera (or was it Mayhew?) recently had comments I think you posted here about benefits of interior pressure and the feeling they wanted more of it. Guys like Simpson don't fit that, he pressures from looping around to the outside.

 

What about Demarion Overshown?

[DWinzit]

9 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Ivan Pace is the only guy I can really think of that fits the bill as a good blitzer from inside. Though if someone mentions someone else I'll watch them.

 

Ron Rivera (or was it Mayhew?) recently had comments I think you posted here about benefits of interior pressure and the feeling they wanted more of it. Guys like Simpson don't fit that, he pressures from looping around to the outside.

Yeah he would be a nice addition and add a twist we really haven't seen...If the know how and are willing to use him to his fullest.

 

I imagine when they say they want more interior pressure they are referring to having the full arsenal of DL healthy.

 

That being said, even more fun the DC could have a shiny new toy like a Pace...BRING THE PRESSURE! 

[Going Commando]

Every time I watch Alabama's offense, I'm blown away by Bryce Young.  For me he is the no doubter best player in the class, and I actually don't think it's that close between him and Stroud.  Stroud is good, Young is great.  Nobody can touch that dude when it comes to dissecting coverages and pressures and creating off the script.  Eight man coverages with nobody open for ages while he's moving around all over the backfield and then it's a 40 yard dime for a TD.

 

The dirty secret about Bama's offense this year was that they were a huge step down from the standard the program set under Sarkisian.  Bill O'Brien kinda sucks, and Sarkisian was great.  On top of that, the receivers were a massive step down from the groups they had before, and the OL didn't have any first rounders on it for the first time in forever, plus there were some continuity issues there.  A transfer portal player from a middling ACC program stepped in day one for a huge role, and was pretty much the only other high end player in the offense.

 

It's a far cry from what was on the field with CJ Stroud: two first round tackles, a third round center, two first round receivers plus a third guy whose going to be a decently high draft pick, and a stable of fast running backs, plus a great play caller who is a QB whisperer running the show.  That was an offense firing on all cylinders, and Alabama was a lot of Bryce Young making chicken salad out of chicken crap.  We don't usually get Alabama QBs facing a lot of adversity and learning to cook like they will have to do in the NFL.  Mac Jones didn't do **** for his offense.  Never moved off his script that season.  Never faced pressure, never had to throw into coverage, never had to deal with bad leverage down and distance.  He was like the seventh best starter on his offense and was able to parlay that into being a first round pick.  The 2022 Alabama offense wasn't anything like that.

 

Carolina is dumb if they pick anyone besides Young. I know he's small, but he's the best player in the class and definitely the best QB.

 

All that said, Steen and Ekiyor are pretty solid players and they were the third and fourth best players on that offense.  Mid round quality there.  Steen will benefit from moving to guard in most situations, and Ekiyor is short but strong.  They are going to miss him next year, they don't have a lot of returning experience on their OL now that he's gone.  Their back up center #71 also looks like a player to watch for next season. He's got some feistiness, and I'm surprised the hasn't been a more consistent starter for them.  He can play and I'll be watching to see if he holds down a starting job next season.

[KDawg]

58 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Every time I watch Alabama's offense, I'm blown away by Bryce Young.  For me he is the no doubter best player in the class, and I actually don't think it's that close between him and Stroud.  Stroud is good, Young is great.  Nobody can touch that dude when it comes to dissecting coverages and pressures and creating off the script.  Eight man coverages with nobody open for ages while he's moving around all over the backfield and then it's a 40 yard dime for a TD.

 

The dirty secret about Bama's offense this year was that they were a huge step down from the standard the program set under Sarkisian.  Bill O'Brien kinda sucks, and Sarkisian was great.  On top of that, the receivers were a massive step down from the groups they had before, and the OL didn't have any first rounders on it for the first time in forever, plus there were some continuity issues there.  A transfer portal player from a middling ACC program stepped in day one for a huge role, and was pretty much the only other high end player in the offense.

 

It's a far cry from what was on the field with CJ Stroud: two first round tackles, a third round center, two first round receivers plus a third guy whose going to be a decently high draft pick, and a stable of fast running backs, plus a great play caller who is a QB whisperer running the show.  That was an offense firing on all cylinders, and Alabama was a lot of Bryce Young making chicken salad out of chicken crap.  We don't usually get Alabama QBs facing a lot of adversity and learning to cook like they will have to do in the NFL.  Mac Jones didn't do **** for his offense.  Never moved off his script that season.  Never faced pressure, never had to throw into coverage, never had to deal with bad leverage down and distance.  He was like the seventh best starter on his offense and was able to parlay that into being a first round pick.  The 2022 Alabama offense wasn't anything like that.

 

Carolina is dumb if they pick anyone besides Young. I know he's small, but he's the best player in the class and definitely the best QB.

 

All that said, Steen and Ekiyor are pretty solid players and they were the third and fourth best players on that offense.  Mid round quality there.  Steen will benefit from moving to guard in most situations, and Ekiyor is short but strong.  They are going to miss him next year, they don't have a lot of returning experience on their OL now that he's gone.  Their back up center #71 also looks like a player to watch for next season. He's got some feistiness, and I'm surprised the hasn't been a more consistent starter for them.  He can play and I'll be watching to see if he holds down a starting job next season.

 

I completely agree with you skill wise. If Young was even 6-1 there wouldn't be a single doubt about him as a prospect. Not one. 

 

If I had pick #1, I'd take him. Period. 

 

But I'm not sure if the NFL would. We'll see. I think the Panthers will. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Ivan Pace is the only guy I can really think of that fits the bill as a good blitzer from inside. Though if someone mentions someone else I'll watch them.

 

 

I've on and off talked about Sirvocea Dennis, he's my poor man's Ivan Pace in this draft.  Main issue with him is his size.  226 pounds.  And he's a good athlete but not a great ahtlete which I'd want more from an undersized player.   But maybe can be turned into a Shaq Thompson type of player.

 

Not as big of a force against the run, not as good as a pass rusher as Pace.  But in the 6th round give or take he intrigues me.   Highest run grade from PFF in this group -- lowest (best) miss tackle rate -- but he's defintely not a stack-shed type tackler like Jack Campbell, he needs to be kept clean usually to make plays but that works fine with a defense like this.  Really fun watch for me months back that every now and then I bring up.

 

High intangibles, smart, good athlete.  7 sacks.

 

https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2022/03/01/the-smartest-linebacker-around-pitts-sirvocea-denniss-rise-to-leadership/

The Smartest Linebacker Around: Pitt’s SirVocea Dennis’s Rise to Leadership

While he’s only one man, some sort of solace can be taken in the fact that Dennis is the smartest guy in the defensive two-deep. No, really, ask Pat Narduzzi about it.

“SirVocea is maybe one of the smartest guys on the defense, if not the smartest guy on the defense,” Narduzzi said Monday. “He’s great. We can challenge him mentally with a bunch of different stuff. Obviously, he’s going to be huge in coaching the rest of the guys up and coaching their meetings.”

Dennis has already been a coach on the field, Narduzzi said, and it’s only carried over into the locker room, the meeting room and across all facets of the linebacking corps at Pitt. However, Dennis isn’t alone when it comes to smart football players occupying the linebacker spots in Pittsburgh.

 

“At this point, I try to be the smartest guy on the defense, but everybody in the linebacker room is up there with me,” Dennis said Monday. “It’s always a little competition, and that’s good competition.”

Dennis occupies the Mike linebacker position at Pitt, right in the heart of a high-powered, high-energy unit, and broke out as a sophomore in 2020. In the last two seasons, he’s racked up 137 tackles (74 solo), 24 tackles for loss, eight sacks, an interception returned for a touchdown and a fumble recovery. He led Pitt in tackles (82) and tackles for loss (10) in 2021.

 

Despite back-to-back All-ACC campaigns, Dennis spent the winter workouts crafting his body and perfecting his discipline in preparation for the 2022 season. And without guys like Bright and Petrishen, Dennis has made the difficult transition into more of a vocal leader in the room.

 

“It’s different and weird because when they were in the room, I was considered the young guy,” Dennis said. “Now I’m, I think, the oldest guy in the room. It was definitely weird for me, the change, but those guys have been in the room, they’re my brothers, and they’re coming along.

 

...While the statistics rolls in as fast, hard-hitting linebackers in Pitt’s defensive system, Dennis wants to instill the will to win above all else. He’ll do whatever it takes to bring home a win, and he wants the entire linebacking corps to play the exact same way.

Dennis wasn’t the highest-rated recruit out of high school, only given a two-star rating and sub-3,000th national ranking, but he’s built himself into one of the top linebackers in the ACC — and he’ll have the chance to showcase himself as one of the best linebackers in college football in 2022.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[philibusters]

What draft podcasts do people listen to?

 

The main ones I listen to (though I don't catch every episode of any of them) are:

 

1.  Sumer Sports:  Thomas Dimitroff and Eric Eager are the hosts.  Dimitroff was the GM of the Atlanta Falcons for 12 years and the assistant GM for the Patriots in the aughts.  Eager is a data scientists who used to work at PFF.

 

2.  PFF NFL Podcast:  With Steve Palozzo and Sam Monson.  During draft season Mike Renner appears on the podcast often.

 

3.  Move the Sticks:  With Daniel Jeremiah and  Bucky Brooks: Two former NFL scouts that now work for the NFL Network

 

4.  With the First Pick:  A CBS podcast with former Vikings (and Dolphins) GM Rick Spielman and Ryan Wilson:  I just started listening to this one, so I have only listened to a total of 2 episodes.

[Skinsinparadise]

Cuing @Going Commando

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, philibusters said:

What draft podcasts do people listen to?

 

The main ones I listen to (though I don't catch every episode of any of them) are:

 

1.  Sumer Sports:  Thomas Dimitroff and Eric Eager are the hosts.  Dimitroff was the GM of the Atlanta Falcons for 12 years and the assistant GM for the Patriots in the aughts.  Eager is a data scientists who used to work at PFF.

 

2.  PFF NFL Podcast:  With Steve Palozzo and Sam Monson.  During draft season Mike Renner appears on the podcast often.

 

3.  Move the Sticks:  With Daniel Jeremiah and  Bucky Brooks: Two former NFL scouts that now work for the NFL Network

 

4.  With the First Pick:  A CBS podcast with former Vikings (and Dolphins) GM Rick Spielman and Ryan Wilson:  I just started listening to this one, so I have only listened to a total of 2 episodes.

 

NFL Stock Exchange

Ross Tucker -- he has Greg Cosell who does different draft segments

First Draft -- that's Kiper-McShay

The PFF NFL Podcast

 

Kiper-McShay to me are by far the most entertaining.   I try to listen to Move The Sticks but both Jeremiah and Brooks are so boring as speakers, they try to juice it up but just IMO have zero charisma as speakers and they both are getting so funky with some of their takes that I wonder if some of that is to generate attention -- they both come off like nice guys but just boring to listen to. 

 

[mistertim]

15 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Listened to Lombardi's latest podcast and he did a 180 on Richardson vs. Levis.  Said he loves the athletic ability of Richardson, but wouldn't take him anywhere near #4.  Said while Levis is robotic and has questions, he's much more ready than Richardson is.  Said he hears Richardson won't get anywhere near the top 10.

 

 

To me Richardson is a complete unknown as far as where he'll go. I could see some team falling in love with his ludicrous athleticism and taking him top 5 but I could also see him falling to the 2nd round or so if teams are put off by some of his negatives.

 

There's absolutely no doubting his insane athletic gifts, but that's mostly all he has going for him. Outside of having a cannon arm, he's not a very good passing QB. His accuracy is poor and his decision making is often pretty questionable.

 

I've seen some people compare him to Cam, but Cam IMO was a far more polished product when he came out. He was a better passer, more accurate, and far more productive in every category.

 

I think at this point Richardson is a poor man's Lamar, though one thing he has on Lamar is size.

[Skinsinparadise]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/36091678/2023-nfl-draft-buzz-rumors-latest-news-no-1-pick-qbs-prospects-risers-pro-day-stars-sleeper-picks

 

2023 NFL draft buzz, rumors: Latest news on No. 1 pick, QBs, prospects

Which teams are you hearing could trade up in Round 1?

Reid: I have my eye on the Kansas City Chiefs. We saw them trade up for cornerback Trent McDuffie last year (No. 29 to No. 21), and I could see general manager Brett Veach moving up again this year. With 10 draft picks and a roster that doesn't have many open spots, it makes sense if the team sees an opportunity to land an impact player. Kansas City has holes at offensive tackle and edge rusher, two positions that are plentiful in the first round. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs move up from No. 31 into the early 20s for a top-tier prospect at one of those spots.

Miller: The Buffalo Bills are another AFC title contender with eyes on moving up, based on what I've heard from sources around the league. The Bills will play the board and see who is falling, but with the No. 27 selection, it's very possible general manager Brandon Beane gets anxious and moves up for an interior offensive lineman or offensive skill player. That said, Buffalo has six total selections in this draft, so trading up very far wouldn't be possible without mortgaging future draft classes.

---

Name a prospect who will be drafted higher than we think.

Miller: Jalin Hyatt, WR, Tennessee. Hyatt has been a top-32 player for me since the 2022 season ended, but that's more of an outlier than a consensus take. I'm standing firm, though -- and I think Hyatt could be a top-25 selection. Wide receivers with high-end speed to stretch the field seemingly always rise on draft day, and Hyatt's production in the SEC should turn heads once coaches get involved in the process of stacking team boards. Hyatt averaged 18.9 yards per reception last year and scored 15 touchdowns en route to a Biletnikoff Award trophy for the nation's best receiver. He also couldn't be stopped by Nick Saban's Alabama defense; multiple scouts are still talking about his six catches for 207 yards and five touchdowns against the Crimson Tide.

Fowler: Nolan Smith, OLB, Georgia. Some scouts are giving off top-10 vibes for Smith, nothing that the Pittsburgh Steelers at No. 17 could be his floor. The Detroit Lions, who have the sixth and 18th picks, have done their homework on Smith, who has improved his stock through the process. Fit will be key for Smith. Given he's 6-foot-2 and 238 pounds, playing every down as a defensive end could wear him down. Some scouts say he's best served in a 3-4 defense as a speedy pass-rusher who can also drop into coverage.

Reid: Darnell Wright, OT, Tennessee. If there's one player who has aced the pre-draft process, it's Wright. He displayed an improved skill set at the Senior Bowl and then stood out at the combine. And now it seems Wright could be selected in the early teens. At 6-foot-5 and 333 pounds, he has experience at both guard and tackle, and many teams feel like he can play on either the right or left side. A run on offensive tackles could start as early as No. 7 overall with the Las Vegas Raiders, and Wright might be in the early stages of that run, perhaps inside the top 15.

 

"There wasn't an offensive tackle that went through a worse gauntlet of pass-rushers, and he passed the test with flying colors," a scout told me. "He limited [Alabama's Will Anderson Jr.] during their matchup, [LSU's BJ] Ojulari couldn't do anything against him, and he battled hard against [Clemson's Bryan] Bresee in the bowl game -- which most players would've opted out of anyway."

---

 

Name a Day 2 prospect who is getting buzz from scouts and evaluators.

Fowler: Blake Freeland, OT, BYU. Mobile, versatile offensive tackles usually get pushed up the board, and Freeland could be the latest case. One veteran scout had a good comp for him: Kolton Miller. "That checks out for me when I watch him," the scout said. Freeland has played a lot of football, starting 41 games for the Cougars over four seasons. At 6-foot-8 and 302 pounds, he also only allowed one sack in 2022. While he's not a lock to go in the second round, he's a threat to do so given how many teams need tackle help and prioritize the position.

Reid: Jartavius Martin, CB, Illinois. He's repeatedly mentioned when talking to scouts. "We thought he was going to stay hidden after he suffered the injury during the first day of practices at the Senior Bowl, but the combine completely changed that," an area scout said to me. Martin has spent time at both safety spots, outside corner and nickelback -- and he's a mainstay on special teams. His instincts stand out, as he trusts what he sees and isn't shy about attacking downhill once he diagnoses. Martin picked off three passes, broke up 12 more and forced a pair of fumbles last season. After a really good combine showing, it would be surprising if he made it out of the top 75 picks.

Miller: Jonathan Mingo, WR, Ole Miss. The buzz started at the Senior Bowl, when scouts and coaches were talking about Mingo's build looking like A.J. Brown's. At 6-2 and 220 pounds, he does resemble Brown or Alshon Jeffery when watching him in person. And like those big-bodied wideouts, Mingo has the power to box out defenders and is a menace on breaking routes, helping him to 16.9 yards per catch last season. He ran a 4.46-second 40-yard dash at the combine and elevated his status to Round 2 target. Teams such as the Dallas Cowboys, Bills and Chiefs all make sense for him at the end of the second round.

---

Name a Day 3 prospect who is getting buzz from scouts and evaluators.

Reid: Roschon Johnson, RB, Texas. Even though he was No. 2 running back at Texas behind Bijan Robinson, Johnson caught the eye of scouts. He carried the ball only 93 times last season but averaged six yards per tote. And while he lacks an A-level trait, he's very well-rounded. Johnson is a natural tackle-breaker who runs with power and vision, and he has also contributed on special teams, which is repeatedly brought up by scouts on what separates him from the rest of a deep running back class. The most common projection for Johnson from people in the league is the third or fourth round.

Miller: Dorian Thompson-Robinson, QB, UCLA. The quarterback class has a sizable drop-off in talent after Hendon Hooker, but scouts are starting to buzz about Thompson-Robinson, likely the QB6 in this class. DTR is a former top prep recruit who started 48 times in college and was highly productive as both a passer and runner, finishing 11th last season in QBR (82.1) and also rushing for 12 touchdowns. With 4.56 speed and experience in a pro-style system, Thompson-Robinson isn't the project many are expecting him to be in the NFL. An early Day 3 selection wouldn't surprise me.

 

Fowler: Scott Matlock, DT, Boise State. He was an All-Mountain West second-teamer who didn't participate in the combine, but he showed at his pro day that he can move at 6-foot-4 and 296 pounds, and scouts see value in the later rounds. "I like his athleticism, body type, lower-body strength and flexibility," a veteran scout said. "I think he will develop into a starter."

As a bonus, TCU running back Kendre Miller has had a quiet pre-draft process while recovering from an MCL injury, but he still has plenty of fans in NFL circles because of his toughness and explosion.

[Going Commando]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cuing @Going Commando

 

A dog you say?  I'll check him out.

[Going Commando]

Dog confirmed.  Clark is skinny as heck but he's got a lot of fight in him.  That Wake Forest performance was epic.  Power bombed the RB when he tried to bounce it wide on a stuffed inside zone read.  He and Ridgeway can practice wrestling moves with each other lol.  He's got a zone corner's mentality, especially playing downhill to the flats.  Very explosive click and close speed, and launches himself into contact with abandon.  But still has the hips for man coverage.  I think he's a good fit for us.  Local kid from Richmond it looks like.  Undersized, but hard-nosed.  Probably gain a good amount of weight in an NFL S&C program.  I like him somewhere on day three.  Round five maybe?

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

A dog you say?  I'll check him out.

 

I think I mixed him up with another player, could have sworn you touted him before, guess not.

 

But yeah I do like CBs that are feisty, dog in them.  Part of the reason why Witherspoon would very tempting if he landed at 16 as to just taking him versus trading down, but am guessing he's gone. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Not top 3 to me but he's one of my favs still, props to Brugler for pushing the name because I would have not known to watch him otherwise 

 

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not top 3 to me but he's one of my favs still, props to Brugler for pushing the name because I would have not known to watch him otherwise 

 

 

 

 

Woh, need to watch him.

 

Btw, what do people think of Matthew Bergeron at #47? Premise of competing for LG job in 2023 and then competing for LT in 2024 when Leno's contract is more flexible. If he fails to win it in 2024, then he falls back to LG.

 

I say this as he seems to be a more realistic target at 47 than hoping certain prospects fall.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Woh, need to watch him.

 

Btw, what do people think of Matthew Bergeron at #47? Premise of competing for LG job in 2023 and then competing for LT in 2024 when Leno's contract is more flexible. If he fails to win it in 2024, then he falls back to LG.

 

I say this as he seems to be a more realistic target at 47 than hoping certain prospects fall.

 
A bunch of us have talked about Bergeron. He might be the only high floor LT prospect who is left in the 2nd round. I like him the best after that first grouping of tackes that likely go first or early 2nd. To me he is likely the last of the Mohicans who might be there at 47 among the higher floor tackles 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

Would be soooo awesome if we had a new owner in place by draft weekend....the draft party would be the greatest in the history of the league because we'd be celebrating much more than new players. Contrarily, if the sale is announced but not approved before the draft I could see Snyder not throwing a draft party at all....

[Rex Tomb]

2 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Woh, need to watch him.

 

Btw, what do people think of Matthew Bergeron at #47? Premise of competing for LG job in 2023 and then competing for LT in 2024 when Leno's contract is more flexible. If he fails to win it in 2024, then he falls back to LG.

 

I say this as he seems to be a more realistic target at 47 than hoping certain prospects fall.