Wentz Traded to Washington for 2 3rd Rounders per Bleacher Report

[FootballZombie]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

This is really a low risk high reward proposition.

 

I got it as high risk high reward. Based off his previous stops, Wentz carries that nuclear option.

 

When a starter don't work out, it does not have to get embarrassingly ugly. That has not occurred in Philly or Indy for Wentz. Its always exceedingly max level drama and uglyness off the field.

 

While we can get out of future cap hits easily, I gotta also account for the risk of things possibly blowing up in epic fashion, in ways that don't exist with the majority of QB options.

 

So on one hand you have a guy who has the talent to be a great QB, but on the other you have a guy who has a record of physical altercations w/ players. playing a 10 week silence game w/ the head coach mid-season, and obviously telling Irsay a "Yo' Mamma so fat" joke so legendary it earned his eternal ire.

 

 

Something along the lines of "Yo mamma so fat, when she walked in front of the projector, I missed 3 film sessions." sounds about right

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Darth Tater]

My actual biggest fear is that Wentz is just average, still our best option but not one we like going forward. We are as protected as possible from him sucking as we can be (we can walk away without extensive damage to our draft capital and almost none to cap). If he is close to his former self, he's young enough to be here for a long enough that he'd be relatively cheap to extend.

 

I also think we can extend our downside risk protection by figuring out how to trade picks this year for two ones next year (this would give us better access to move on from him in the downside case). On the upside case where we can kick the QB can down the road again, we would have options to build a multi-year competitor around him. I also think that such a move would reduce the mediocre problem though you still might have the problem of good personal performance with bad team performance.

[Conn]

49 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I got it as high risk high reward.

 

It cannot be high risk when you “only” pay what we paid. That is not a high price to pay to take a swing at the QB position. It just isn’t. 

 

49 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

playing a 10 week silence game w/ the head coach mid-season

What are you referring to here? Ballard and Pederson both have no shortage of great things to say about Wentz regardless of how things turned out with him and their organizations at the time. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

My actual biggest fear is that Wentz is just average, still our best option but not one we like going forward. We are as protected as possible from him sucking as we can be (we can walk away without extensive damage to our draft capital and almost none to cap). If he is close to his former self, he's young enough to be here for a long enough that he'd be relatively cheap to extend.

 

I also think we can extend our downside risk protection by figuring out how to trade picks this year for two ones next year (this would give us better access to move on from him in the downside case). On the upside case where we can kick the QB can down the road again, we would have options to build a multi-year competitor around him. I also think that such a move would reduce the mediocre problem though you still might have the problem of good personal performance with bad team performance.

So here's the thing: if he's "just average" and we get to the playoffs and a couple 11+ win seasons, that would be a huge step forward. It's exactly what Alex Smith did in KC.

 

And it allows you to build the team, figure out who's in, who's not, and have success.  Then you can keep taking shots at the long-term QB.  

 

I'd take that ride any day of the week.  

 

Frankly, I'd take back-to-back 11-7 seasons, and a 1-2 record in the playoffs the next 2 seasons (1-1 one year, 0-1 another) and that would be SO much better than anything since 1991, I would be in nirvana.  

 

[Darth Tater]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So here's the thing: if he's "just average" and we get to the playoffs and a couple 11+ win seasons, that would be a huge step forward. It's exactly what Alex Smith did in KC.

 

And it allows you to build the team, figure out who's in, who's not, and have success.  Then you can keep taking shots at the long-term QB.  

 

I'd take that ride any day of the week.  

 

Frankly, I'd take back-to-back 11-7 seasons, and a 1-2 record in the playoffs the next 2 seasons (1-1 one year, 0-1 another) and that would be SO much better than anything since 1991, I would be in nirvana.  

 

Totally disagree with you about average. Average means we still need an elite QB to become a consistent winner and would probably mean we will still be looking at the same time the rest of the roster needs an upgrade. Average means a 9-8 season losing a game or two we should not lose. Good enough for that three to become a two but not worth that amount.

 

Smith, while not great QB, was a great athlete before the big injury. Reid's offensive system fit his style perfectly. Smith was a great field general. Reid is also the most awesome guy at selecting and developing QBs currently in the biz (he also is of the lineage of Holmgren and Walsh). Smith withheld his negative opinions about the organization until he was done. Wentz reminds me of the good employee who can't hold his tongue about incompetent management and withhold unwelcome opinions, even if he thinks he is right.

[FootballZombie]

9 hours ago, Conn said:

It cannot be high risk when you “only” pay what we paid. That is not a high price to pay to take a swing at the QB position. It just isn’t. 

 

We paid a lot for someone in Wentz position.

We have seen more then enough people insinuating that the price was high across this board and all over TV, radio and websites. Not even worth debating at this point. You may feel its not, but a wide multitude of others clearly feel otherwise, me included.

 

I may have been one of the first to claim it, but it can't even be viewed as a hot take at this point. Its more like iced coffee.

 

10 hours ago, Conn said:

What are you referring to here?

 

Picked it up from various Adam Schefter reports covering Wentz's time in Philly

He didn't speak to his head coach for 8-10 weeks during the season and skipped out on meetings. A lot of passive-aggressive stuff. A different source said he killed plays for no reason, just to get in pissing contests. There is a whole bunch of stuff out there.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/carson-wentz-trade-new-details-on-qbs-toxic-relationship-with-former-eagles-coach-doug-pederson/

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/desperate-for-a-reset-eagles-dealing-carson-wentz-to-colts-was-addition-by-subtraction/

https://sportsnaut.com/carson-wentz-doug-pederson-2020-season/

 

 

11 hours ago, Conn said:

Ballard and Pederson both have no shortage of great things to say about Wentz regardless of how things turned out with him and their organizations at the time. 

 

I would expect Ballard and Pederson to be positive, they have to/want to continue working in this league. Being negative hurts them more than it helps. It serves them no purpose to continuously blast a former player, especially at the QB position. Its best for them to try and keep it rolling.

 

Per Schefty in relation to that on Wentz in Philly in a radio segment:

 

"What reason is there for any one of these individuals to go talk about the dysfunction that existed over the last year and all the things that went wrong. Right, I mean, look there are a lot of things that went wrong. We have the team drafting Jalen Hurts. We have Carson feeling jilted by that. We have the team trying to reassure him. We have Carson not getting past that. We have Carson struggling. We have Carson and Doug not talking for weeks on end during the season where the head coach and quarterback are not talking for 8, 9, 10 weeks, whatever it may be. I mean, I don't know who is gonna...you think someone is going to sit down and spell all this out? I don't think so. What reason is there for anybody to revisit it? You will keep revisiting, we will keep revisiting it, the media will. And there will things that continue to trickle out. But I don't think one of these individuals is going to sit down and have a come to God session and unload everything that is on his chest and bothered him the past year. I'm not expecting that"

https://975thefanatic.com/2021/02/19/adam-schefter-breaks-down-how-the-wentz-deal-came-together/

 

I'd expect Indy front office and coach relationships to follow this same dynamic. If you got fire-able skin in the game and have to continue to work in an environment where you still have to forge working relationships, there is little benefit to torching bridges. Unless your an owner, then you could care less. They can't get fired.

 

If they are going to, you wont see either Pederson or Ballard after-the-fact smash Wentz in a major capacity until they retire and choose to write a book. They are doing what any responsible coach/GM should do. Other players see how people are treated. A GM or coach can't absolutely railroad a guy after he's gone and think the next guy coming in wont find that offputting.

 

Same applies for Wentz, If he wants to continue working, then the best thing he can do is not absolutely trash his former teams to the media. Playing the good boy scout and being positive is the right move, and he is doing that for both Philly and Indy. He would find it a lot harder to find work if he spent his time airing dirty laundry about his former/or then current Orgs.

 

Needless to say, Pederson, Wentz, Ballard or anyone putting a smiley face after the fact does little to disillusion the problems that were actively occurring around them. Its in each of their best interests to paint as rosy a picture as possible now.

[Conn]

So what you’re saying is that you don’t trust what anyone actually says in this matter but Schefter’s reports at the time? He’s extremely reliable for verifiable events—transactions. He’s not a journalist. He breaks news on transactions four minutes before anyone else, and trades on influence and information to get that access. We saw that this year with the email leaks—Schefter 100% carries water for the NFL. Did you forget about the way those same Eagles railroaded Desean Jackson with character assassination narratives when his time was done there? Every significant player, coach, and front office person—even most best writers—who are actually on the record about the Wentz situation love the guy and basically say that isn’t what went down in either destination. It’s shocking to me that someone could watch Snyder run smear campaigns on person after person who has left here and not recognize it happening elsewhere.

 

I’m not saying it’s some grand conspiracy or that Wentz is some angel who isn’t at least partially at fault for the way his tenures ended with those two teams—I’m sure he did have personality clashes with some important people. We know he did with Irsay. What I’m saying is that you’re entirely hanging your hat on narratives that others deny, based off some reports from people who famously carry the leagues water in the national media. If anything your point of view on this is closer to being a conspiracy viewpoint, despite how prevalent it is, when you really think about it—given you are basically saying “I’m ignoring all the former teammates going out of their way on social media to give unsolicited positive opinions about him, and I’m ignoring that his former coaches heap way more praise than is necessary on a former player when asked about it, in favor of the narrative obviously being pushed by billionaires and their media mouthpieces”. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Conn

[Riggo#44]

Went fall out in Philly is not news. We know this, sure Rivera and the Marties knew this was well. To recap, Wentz was a bad fit in that younger, boistrous locker room. Again, this is not news. Many have said the Commanders locker room is lower key and professional, a better fit for him. These reports are over a year old.

 

I am not worried about Wentz, we pretty much know what we're getting. Will he have games that will give the Game day Thread keyboard mashers an aneurysm? Absolutely, so will just about every QB. Look at these:

 

Mahomes: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202110240oti.htm

Burrow: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202109190chi.htm

Josh Allen also lost to the Jags: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202111070jax.htm

 

People are acting like Wentz is Johnny Manziel. People are expecting him to be Aaron Rodgers. He's not either. If he was, we sure as **** weren't getting him for 2 3rds. He's a far cry better than Taylor Heinicke.

[Warhead36]

You can win with Wentz. And he'll have stretches where he plays like a superstar. He'll also have a couple stinkers. He's basically Kirk Cousins with more pure physical talent but with an injury history. 

 

If you don't think he's SIGNIFICANTLY better than Taylor Heinicke well then you don't live in a world of logic and reason and there is no talking to you.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Warhead36

[veteranskinsfan]

I read this week that Colin Cowherd believes from a statistical standpoint there is not much difference between Wentz and Prescott.

He was asked who will be the best NFC quarterback this year.

[Riggo#44]

27 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I read this week that Colin Cowherd believes from a statistical standpoint there is not much difference between Wentz and Prescott.

He was asked who will be the best NFC quarterback this year.

All this love from Cowherd has me worried...given he's a proven moron and an asshole.

[Conn]

13 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

All this love from Cowherd has me worried...given he's a proven moron and an asshole.

That is all true, but he’s first and foremost a contrarian. He loves to create engagement by being contradictory. So he’s bound to be in the minority very often, and the minority on this issue is thinking it was a good move lol. He’s not someone who believes what he says with conviction. Nobody knows what he really thinks about anything imo, he plays a character to a degree. His takes are 100% geared to make people say “look what Cowherd is saying now”. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Conn

[Riggo#44]

17 minutes ago, Conn said:

That is all true, but he’s first and foremost a contrarian. He loves to create engagement by being contradictory. So he’s bound to be in the minority very often, and the minority on this issue is thinking it was a good move lol. He’s not someone who believes what he says with conviction. Nobody knows what he really thinks about anything imo, he plays a character to a degree. His takes are 100% geared to make people say “look what Cowherd is saying now”. 

That was my take as well--he's just being contrarian. He wants the attention more than accuracy...or respect.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Picked it up from various Adam Schefter reports covering Wentz's time in Philly

He didn't speak to his head coach for 8-10 weeks during the season and skipped out on meetings.

 

 

To be fair, he skipped exit meetings...which, when the team drafts your supposed replacement, win a SB with your backup and support for you is dwindling week by week, I can see attending an exit meeting as a waste of time...especially if you've already determined that you want out (and the coach gets canned shortly after anyway lol). He should hve still attended those meetings regardless, but it's not as if he skipped QB meetings during the season.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

You can win with Wentz. And he'll have stretches where he plays like a superstar. He'll also have a couple stinkers. He's basically Kirk Cousins with more pure physical talent but with an injury history. 

 

If you don't think he's SIGNIFICANTLY better than Taylor Heinicke well then you don't live in a world of logic and reason and there is no talking to you.

 

Talent-wise there's no comparison...

 

But one of the things that impressed me about Heinicke was that feeling that no moment was too big for him. I saw too many times with the Eagles where it seemed like Wentz was ****ting his pants in the moment. Didn't watch any Colts games so can't speak to that.

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[Riggo#44]

6 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Talent-wise there's no comparison...

 

But one of the things that impressed me about Heinicke was that feeling that no moment was too big for him. I saw too many times with the Eagles where it seemed like Wentz was ****ting his pants in the moment. Didn't watch any Colts games so can't speak to that.

 

He has 10 game winning drives in his career--including three with that **** team in 2020. He didn't have any with Indy

[Warhead36]

30 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Talent-wise there's no comparison...

 

But one of the things that impressed me about Heinicke was that feeling that no moment was too big for him. I saw too many times with the Eagles where it seemed like Wentz was ****ting his pants in the moment. Didn't watch any Colts games so can't speak to that.

 

I started Friday Night Lights(the NBC series)on Netflix. Only through about 8 or 9 episodes but Heinicke is basically Matt Saracen. Nobody expected him to ever get a shot, he's super limited physically, but he plays with grit and moxie and his teammates rally around him. But ultimately you're just limited what you can do offensively with him. They even highlight that in the show with how often they rely on their running backs(then again it is High School football).

[Califan007 The Constipated]

43 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

He has 10 game winning drives in his career--including three with that **** team in 2020. He didn't have any with Indy

 

Heinicke had 4 last season...that matches Wentz's best season so far. But when I say no moment seemed too big for him, I'm not just talking about game-winning drives. At no point in his first start--a playoff game--did I feel like Heinicke was in over his head. They didn't win, there was no game-winning drive...didn't matter.

[skinny21]

21 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I started Friday Night Lights(the NBC series)on Netflix. Only through about 8 or 9 episodes but Heinicke is basically Matt Saracen. Nobody expected him to ever get a shot, he's super limited physically, but he plays with grit and moxie and his teammates rally around him. But ultimately you're just limited what you can do offensively with him. They even highlight that in the show with how often they rely on their running backs(then again it is High School football).

Interesting comparison for sure.  Even down to the previous starting qb that wound up in the wheelchair… (yikes).

[Die Hard]

26 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I started Friday Night Lights(the NBC series)on Netflix. Only through about 8 or 9 episodes but Heinicke is basically Matt Saracen. Nobody expected him to ever get a shot, he's super limited physically, but he plays with grit and moxie and his teammates rally around him. But ultimately you're just limited what you can do offensively with him. They even highlight that in the show with how often they rely on their running backs(then again it is High School football).

Connie Britton and Minka Kelly. That’s all I want to remember about that show.

[Warhead36]

41 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

Connie Britton and Minka Kelly. That’s all I want to remember about that show.

Adrianne Palicki too....

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Heinicke had 4 last season...that matches Wentz's best season so far. But when I say no moment seemed too big for him, I'm not just talking about game-winning drives. At no point in his first start--a playoff game--did I feel like Heinicke was in over his head. They didn't win, there was no game-winning drive...didn't matter.

Yeah this is like those statements that "so-and-so makes other players better." How do you qualify that kind of statement? Based on what?

 

Heinicke wasn't very good--his decision making was bad, the number of times he slid short of the sticks--when a few more steps would gain a 1st, and still been able to slide. There was a touchdown against GB that was nullified because he dove to short of the goal line and was ruled down--again where he could have just run it in:

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Riggo#44

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I started Friday Night Lights(the NBC series)on Netflix. Only through about 8 or 9 episodes but Heinicke is basically Matt Saracen. Nobody expected him to ever get a shot, he's super limited physically, but he plays with grit and moxie and his teammates rally around him. But ultimately you're just limited what you can do offensively with him. They even highlight that in the show with how often they rely on their running backs(then again it is High School football).

Enjoy the ride. There’s some ridiculous storylines (especially in season 2 lol) but it’s a great, enjoyable show pretty much all the way through 

[FootballZombie]

6 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

If you don't think he's SIGNIFICANTLY better than Taylor Heinicke well then you don't live in a world of logic and reason and there is no talking to you.

 

File that under un-debateable while we are at it as well.

[Die Hard]

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Adrianne Palicki too....

I mean, if she threw herself at me… I wouldn’t say no. She’s not unattractive but not my type.