The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariota and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[zCommander]

30 minutes ago, mh86 said:

4, 29,17, 10, 2, and -1

 

THANKS! I am going to play these numbers on the Power Ball tomorrow.

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by zCommander

[zCommander]

55 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

And Turner saying generic stuff like this has nothing to do with the fact that he was asked about it last season and said he wished Heinicke would run more. So did Ron. They clearly don't think he used his legs enough.

 

Maybe they've sort of given up on that and don't care as much this season because Heinicke's role is even more limited than last and they're asking him to do so little since the run game is working and the defense is playing great.

 

Or maybe it was just a generic answer to a generic question and they still wish he would use his legs more. None of that changes the fact that they did call him out on it last season and he is using his legs less than a statue like Matt Ryan.

 

Okay but I am more interested in what they are doing with him this year. Taylor even said yeah I need to run more so clearly he is saying this after watching the film that he is leaving some yards on the field. If a player can acknowledge that they need to do more or be better then that is good and that is all one can want and hope for. 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by zCommander

[wit33]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

No team with a Dilferish QB is going to win a SB nowadays. None. Doesn't matter how good the defense is. It was over 20 years ago that that happened. Dilfer was awful. Your comparison is meaningless because the chance of either of those teams winning a SB is virtually nil.

 

It’s almost 15 years ago since Aaron Rodgers won a SB. He’s the best QB over the last 10 years.
 

The point being, for anyone it’s virtually nil. Sure, would I prefer to go all in with an elite ball of fame QB over any other approach, No doubt. 
 

We often bump heads because it appears you argue from position elite QB versus alternative pathways to get at bats in the post season while hunting for the elite QB. 

 

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Even with the recent teams that did get to or win the SB with a mediocre QB, the mediocre QB tended to get hot in the playoffs. Foles and Flacco come to mind. However, compared to Dilfer, Foles and Flacco were All Pros.

 

Yes, all competent QBs are able to get hot in a playoff game or two and win. Just like an elite QB might have a bad game and win in the playoffs. 
 

Jimmy has come close to Dilfer like numbers in playoffs and winning SB lol
 

So we’re clear, from a numbers standpoint Heineke is an All Pro compared to Dilfer, right? 
 

I’m not attempting to argue a Dilfer model to win. Stop attempting to put me in this box lol
 

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Again, I know you salivate over salary caps and QBs taking up little of it with a great team around them, but I think it needs to be put in to perspective. The only way that's realistically going to work is if you get lucky and the top QB you drafted quickly turns into a stud so you can ride his rookie contract to a SB (Mahomes, Burrow, for example). If you have a QB taking up 3% of your cap, and he's not a rookie, it means you're rebuilding and waiting for your QB. It doesn't mean you have a chance at winning a SB.

 

The holy grail is an elite QB on rookie deal or Tom Brady deciding to take around 10% of the cap for an entire career. 
 

All other options are slim. The fact is it’s 95% likely Joe Burrow never wins a SB. 
 

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

We just need to stop with this pipe dream about a cheap QB bringing us to the promised land. It's not going to happen. Even the Niners with consistently elite defenses and running games and a decent but not great QB in Jimmy G couldn't win it all.

 

The elite QBs will win most of the SBs, but others will win it as well. If Washington doesn’t have an elite QB, I enjoy as a fan exploring outside the box options and celebrate and acknowledge teams who’ve done it differently. 
 

Been part of, witnessed, and watched too many winning situations done differently than the norm to throw in towel and cower to one way of doing things.

 

I would’ve lost so many times in life if I just let the percentages play out. 

 

5 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I really don’t think it’s that at all with Heinicke, generally because there’s not much to ‘be right’ about.  He is who he is, in fact - I’d argue we’ve seen better from him early on than we have this season.  Literally everything is running optimally for him and we still find ourselves in low scoring squeakers that could easily have went the other way.

 

Low scoring is Rivera football. He was leaning this direction with Wentz at the helm. This shift didn’t take place immediately as Heineke entered the line up. 
 

My speculative position is Rivera aspired in off season to get a QB to lead a high powered offense thinking this is what he needed to do to keep up with the modern day NFL. This strayed away from his inclinations as a coach, but soon after receiving catastrophic and inconsistent results attempting to spray the football around the field, he decided to return to his way/philosophy to win football games— smart, disciplined, and smash mouth.  
 

Less to do with Heineke and much more to do with Rivera’s football soul. 

 

5 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

There really is nothing for an ‘Anti Heinicke’ or whatever you want to call us, to concede.  He hasn’t elevated his play in any way.  Our OC has adopted a scheme to actively gameplan around his deficiencies, gives him high percentage plays to hit when we do pass, and every other aspect of the team is running at a higher level than years past.

 

I dislike the anti/pro Heineke language, it’s toxic, emotionally driven, and diverts the masses from discussion with nuance and depth. Though, toxicity can be entertaining at times mid week and half way through a work day, so I can’t say I haven’t indulged and read. 
 

I disagree he hasn’t improved at all, he’s more effective from the pocket than last year and is becoming a better situationally aware QB. I love his pace in and out of the huddle and improved quick decision making. It’s damn hard to make quick decisions consistently in the NFL.
 

5 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

In summary, I don’t think identifying that Heinicke is merely along for the ride and generally not very good is something to hang a hat on.  I would much prefer to be wrong and have that arm strength training actually have paid dividends, or for him to find that will to scamper and pick up yards on the ground and be more like the player his biggest fans describe him as.

 

None of us scout players for a living, all of us get some right and get some wrong.  It would be much to my benefit as a fan to be wrong about Heinicke. 

 

Many thought his career was over after the Dallas game last year—“the book” was out on him, stack the box and run blitz on the way to sacking him. We are now many games into his next season and he’s maintaining competency all from the pocket. He’s improved since last year. 
 

Full transparency, I was out on the dude as a franchise QB when he stopped playing every play like it was last. I’ve been pointing out his lack of rushing since last season. Never came to conclusion he didn’t have value to Washington as a back up or not have a chance to win games in the NFL. 
 

Basketball is the sport I’ve achieved some level of mastery or expertise of through playing and coaching, but football I love because of the larger team element, many systems available to win, and knowing, you just never know on any given Sunday. Heineke is easy to root for and proves you just never know.
 

 Heineke to the SB and lose to Mahomes or Allen is what I’m manifesting right now lol

Edited December 4, 2022 by wit33

[Spaceman Spiff]

Dilferish is an awesome word.

 

@mistertimI understand your desire for a great quarterback and your notion that it was 20 years ago and that you can't win with a Dilferish (again, ****ing awesome, I have to use that in a sentence sometime this week.  I'm already trying to figure it out.  "Man, these tacos are Dilferish, they're not as good as they were last week," or something like "Yeah, I read the report and I thought it was Dilferish." The best part of this is that the other person doesn't even have to know who Trent Dilfer is, the sound of the word just implies disapproval) quarterback in this day and age, but I will point you towards Peyton Manning in 2015.  

 

Dilfer, 2000:  59.3 completion percentage, 12 touchdowns, 11 picks and 1502 yards.  11 games, he started 8 of them.  76.6 rating.

Manning, 2015:  59.8 completion percentage, 9 touchdowns, 17 picks and 2249 yards.  10 games, he started 9 of them.  67.9 rating.

 

I distinctly remember Peyton Manning throwing a pass in that Super Bowl, the ball looked like it was moving through water.  I couldn't believe that a football could move that slowly through the air.  It made a Heinicke's arm look like Dan Marino or John Elway. 

 

Now we can quibble that "Hey, it was Peyton Manning, he's arguably one of the best two or three quarterbacks to throw a football," and I'd agree with you.  I'm certain that Dilfer could never yell "Omaha" at the line as much and audible in and out of plays like he did.  

 

But Peyton Manning in 2015 was a shell of his former self and that defense dragged him across the finish line to a Super Bowl win.  You can't deny that he was a terrible quarterback at that point of his career.  He was not "Peyton Manning" in the way that you or I would think of him when you first hear his name.

 

So I don't believe you can't win a championship these days without an elite quarterback.  I'm not saying Heinicke is the guy to do it.  I'm not saying I don't want an elite quarterback, of course I do.  I'm right there with you, I want the next Mahomes or Josh Allen or whoever.  It's WAY easier to do it that way.

 

But you can win with an elite defense and average (even bad) quarterback play.  Manning is perfect proof.  I agree that it's incredibly harder to do, but it can be done.

 

 

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

So we’re clear, from a numbers standpoint Heineke is an All Pro compared to Dilfer, right? 

 

Huh? No. Heinicke is very Dilfer-ish, though maybe slightly better from a pure stats standpoint. In the 2000 SB year Dilfer had 12 TDs to 11 INTs with 59.3% completion. Heinicke so far this season has 7 TDs and 5 INTs with 60.8% completion. Though Dilfer actually ran way more that year than Heinicke is this one.

 

Neither of those guy is going to do anything unless he has a dominant cast around him. Mediocre guys like Foles and Flacco went on tears during the postseason when they won it all. They definitely put the teams on their backs and won with their arms. Heinicke just doesn't have that ability unfortunately.

[HigSkin]

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 hours ago, wit33 said:

Many thought his career was over after the Dallas game last year—“the book” was out on him, stack the box and run blitz on the way to sacking him. We are now many games into his next season and he’s maintaining competency all from the pocket. He’s improved since last year. 

I’m still not convinced the book isn’t out on him.  I’ll be convinced of that in the event we or the rest of the league view him as a viable starter in any capacity - time will tell as he’s a FA come the end of the season.  My hat is off to Turner for an unwavering commitment to running the ball, out of a variety of looks.  Beyond that, particularly of late - he’s hand feeding Heinicke gimmes when we do pass.  Perhaps that’s as a result of the commitment to the run giving defenses pause.  Maybe Turner is just that sharp, maybe it’s because he has the horses he needs now, likely it’s a combination of all those things.

 

None of that is to say that Heinicke never makes a play himself.  He does.  But the stats are the stats.  The readjustments made by pass catchers are what they are.  The turnovers that weren’t are what they are. And the list goes on.  
 

If 2 or 3 of these very games go the other way, which they easily could have - I don’t think you feel so bold to suggest that he’s playing well or in your words - improved from last season.

 

I get it - the games didn’t go the other way, enjoy the ride, yadda yadda.  What I don’t think you get is the lot of us do enjoy it.  Beyond being bad for the past few decades, we’ve had our fair share of bad luck to boot.  I’m all for our guys getting to experience the other side of that.  Since it became obvious we aren’t an awful team, I’m all for winning as many as we can in any capacity we can.  There’s an old saying “I’d rather be lucky than good” and it’s quite fitting.

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The Jay Gruden (summarized) quote, "One player hasn't played and the other one's a guaaaaard" actually is one of my favorite things Jay Gruden ever said.  SHADE THROWN.  And I liked it.  

 

 

Grant and Danny likes to throw it right at Jay and Jay will joke aliong these days

[Skinsinparadise]

The elite QBs don't win multiple SBs, I've always found a irrelevant argument.  It's not like the SB wins have been Nick Mullens, Case Keenum, Blake Bortles, Colt McCoy, Tryod Taylor or name that journeyman. 

 

The reason why some elite QBs haven't won multiple SBs in mainly because of two reasons.

 

A. Tom Brady, an elite QB has dominated this

B.  There are more than one elite QBs and they have taken their turns.

 

Some QBs that are good to very good at the time ala Eli and Big Ben and Flacco have won some. All three known at the time to get hot -- all more talented than someone like Dilfer or Heinicke.  They would be be in the Derek Carr range of ability give or take.  2 of those 3 might be Hall of Famers. 

 

The other thing is the elite QBs are always just about part of the playoffs.   SB or no SB, i'd have a blast to watch a team that's in the playoffs 10 out of the last 12 years versus once every 4 years, 1 and out.

 

 

Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 48: Russell Wilson (Malcolm Smith), 2TDs
Super Bowl 49: Tom Brady (MVP), 4TDs
Super Bowl 50: Peyton Manning (Von Miller), 0TDs
Super Bowl 51: Tom Brady (MVP), 2TDs
Super Bowl 52: Nick Foles (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 53: Tom Brady (Julian Edelman), 0TDs
Super Bowl 54: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 55: Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs

Super Bowl 56:  Matt Stafford

 

https://www.docsports.com/current/super-bowl-winning-quarterbacks.html

Edited December 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Yes, high draft capital, use all the capital you need there. Remain extremely cheap,  be elite in development and add veterans as an organization you love that other teams are undervaluing.
 

Olineman have a high variance of play similar to DBs and are highly impacted by their environment: QB, scheme, and offensive identity. 
 

 

Young O lineman take time to develop so certainly some variance on that count, the Gaints Andrew Thomas is a great example of that, started with people saying he's a bust to know he might be the best LT in the game.  I haven't looked at the stats on this recently but in the past it was one of the safest positions to draft early -- in other words not a high bust rate.  With O line like some spots there can be some signficant drop off as some players age -- injury issues, too.

 

But by and large, its a fairly safe position to build up.  As one scout once said its tough to be a good team with a bad O line.

 

The only similarity that hits me to CB is this, tough to survive a weakling.  If you got a crappy guard for example, the defense will exploit that spot, ditto a bad corner.  It's not that the same thing doesn't apply to oher spots but it seems to apply especially to those two spots. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Good summary of why this team is winning IMO, they highlight defense, running game.

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Ryan Clark only saying what a lot of us have been saying and Scott Turner has been actively and successfully game planning around.

 

 

[wit33]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Huh? No. Heinicke is very Dilfer-ish, though maybe slightly better from a pure stats standpoint. In the 2000 SB year Dilfer had 12 TDs to 11 INTs with 59.3% completion. Heinicke so far this season has 7 TDs and 5 INTs with 60.8% completion. Though Dilfer actually ran way more that year than Heinicke is this one.

 

Neither of those guy is going to do anything unless he has a dominant cast around him. Mediocre guys like Foles and Flacco went on tears during the postseason when they won it all. They definitely put the teams on their backs and won with their arms. Heinicke just doesn't have that ability unfortunately.

True, numbers are comparable.
Of all things I posted in my response I can careless about this. So much more to respond to and you choose this only. 

 

Go Washington! 

[Skinsfan1311]

7 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Dilferish is an awesome word.

 

@mistertimI understand your desire for a great quarterback and your notion that it was 20 years ago and that you can't win with a Dilferish (again, ****ing awesome, I have to use that in a sentence sometime this week.  I'm already trying to figure it out.  "Man, these tacos are Dilferish, they're not as good as they were last week," or something like "Yeah, I read the report and I thought it was Dilferish." The best part of this is that the other person doesn't even have to know who Trent Dilfer is, the sound of the word just implies disapproval) quarterback in this day and age, but I will point you towards Peyton Manning in 2015.  

 

 

 

 

+1   

I'll be dropping it with my football buddies when we're talking smack. Well done,  @mistertim

[wit33]

I

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The elite QBs don't win multiple SBs, I've always found a irrelevant argument.  It's not like the SB wins have been Nick Mullens, Case Keenum, Blake Bortles, Colt McCoy, Tryod Taylor or name that journeyman. 

 

The reason why some elite QBs haven't won multiple SBs in mainly because of two reasons.

 

A. Tom Brady, an elite QB has dominated this

B.  There are more than one elite QBs and they have taken their turns.

 

Some QBs that are good to very good at the time ala Eli and Big Ben and Flacco have won some. All three known at the time to get hot -- all more talented than someone like Dilfer or Heinicke.  They would be be in the Derek Carr range of ability give or take.  2 of those 3 might be Hall of Famers. 

 

The other thing is the elite QBs are always just about part of the playoffs.   SB or no SB, i'd have a blast to watch a team that's in the playoffs 10 out of the last 12 years versus once every 4 years, 1 and out.

 

 

Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 48: Russell Wilson (Malcolm Smith), 2TDs
Super Bowl 49: Tom Brady (MVP), 4TDs
Super Bowl 50: Peyton Manning (Von Miller), 0TDs
Super Bowl 51: Tom Brady (MVP), 2TDs
Super Bowl 52: Nick Foles (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 53: Tom Brady (Julian Edelman), 0TDs
Super Bowl 54: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 55: Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs

Super Bowl 56:  Matt Stafford

 

https://www.docsports.com/current/super-bowl-winning-quarterbacks.html

No doubt about it, an elite hall of fame QB is the way to go! No debate, you will not be in position to find one if you’re paying Derek Carr or Kirk Cousins 12-17% of your cap. 

 

Just to be clear, I rather have Joe Burrow than Heineke.  For me it matters what the “good to very good” QBs are getting paid and there’s a strong correlation to winning and what the competent starting QB is getting paid IMO. The guys you mentioned were financial assets to their team when they won the SB.
 

Not saying the model of going all in on a year and pushing money to later years to build around an above average starter doesn’t produce results at times or is wrong. Not the path I prefer, who am I though lol. It becomes very difficult to maintain winning and you no longer get to continue searching for the elite QB or situation.  
 

Not sure I group Joe Flacco and Derek Carr with Ben… maybe a bit more with Eli. I get your point from a talent perspective and I don’t deny you can win a SB with a Kirk Cousins, Goff, Jimmy G, Carr, Tannenhill or a Prescott type. 

[Warhead36]

Just about every Super Bowl won since 2010 has been by either an elite QB, or a good-very good QB that is/was capable of playing elite for stretches. The only exception is 2015 Broncos since Manning was done by that point. 

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I

No doubt about it, an elite hall of fame QB is the way to go! No debate, you will not be in position to find one if you’re paying Derek Carr or Kirk Cousins 12-17% of your cap. 

 

Just to be clear, I rather have Joe Burrow than Heineke.  For me it matters what the “good to very good” QBs are getting paid and there’s a strong correlation to winning and what the competent starting QB is getting paid IMO. The guys you mentioned were financial assets to their team when they won the SB.
 

Not saying the model of going all in on a year and pushing money to later years to build around an above average starter doesn’t produce results at times or is wrong. Not the path I prefer, who am I though lol. It becomes very difficult to maintain winning and you no longer get to continue searching for the elite QB or situation.  
 

Not sure I group Joe Flacco and Derek Carr with Ben… maybe a bit more with Eli. I get your point from a talent perspective and I don’t deny you can win a SB with a Kirk Cousins, Goff, Jimmy G, Carr, Tannenhill or a Prescott type. 

 

Timing matters too and big time.  The Rams are having a down year but they won a SB in year 1 with Stafford.  That roster at full heath and at the peak of thewir powers was tailed made IMO to bring Stafford.

 

How stacked or not stacked is your roster?  Young versus old roster?  Cap situation?  I don't think there is a one size fits all answer. 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Mike White mania continues.  If White keeps playing well, I'd figure they have to get rid of Zach Wilson.  That situation would feel a bit like us getting rid of Haskins (RIP), where I am guessing not much demand so they'd have to trade him cheap probably or release him. 

 

 

 

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Mike White mania continues.  If White keeps playing well, I'd figure they have to get rid of Zach Wilson.  That situation would feel a bit like us getting rid of Haskins (RIP), where I am guessing not much demand so they'd have to trade him cheap probably or release him. 

 

 

 

 

I think it's probably a bit early for that. I know the team likes him and are rallying around him, but the dude has played one game. Yes, he played great against the Bears but I'm assuming they'll need to see that sort of production consistently before they even start to think about jettisoning Wilson.

[wit33]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Mike White mania continues.  If White keeps playing well, I'd figure they have to get rid of Zach Wilson.  That situation would feel a bit like us getting rid of Haskins (RIP), where I am guessing not much demand so they'd have to trade him cheap probably or release him. 

 

 

 

 

 

I know we are two hours from kickoff lol, but would you be interested in Wilson? I very little exposure to him. I love the idea to buy low on guys just as a fundamental principle in life lol, so I easily get intrigued with this kind of situation. 
 

And yes, I’d be interested in Darnold at a league minimum contract next season to compete with the room. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

I know we are two hours from kickoff lol, but would you be interested in Wilson? I very little exposure to him. I love the idea to buy low on guys just as a fundamental principle in life lol, so I easily get intrigued with this kind of situation. 
 

And yes, I’d be interested in Darnold at a league minimum contract next season to compete with the room. 

 

I liked what I saw from Wilson watching him casually in college but I never studied him.  I studied Darnold and as you know, and after doing that I really didn't like him.

 

I recall Joe Theismann loving Wilson before the draft, he had some other fans, too.

 

He definitely has tools, rocket arm, and can make off platform throws like Mahomes.

 

The wildcards though for any of these young QBs are can they read defenses, have work ethic, maturity.   I haven't hard anything negative about Wilson work ethic wise.  But maturity wise he looks like he's 18 years old and sounds like he acts like an 18 year old, too. 

8 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

And yes, I’d be interested in Darnold at a league minimum contract next season to compete with the room. 

 

I wouldn't hate him as the 4th QB, practice squad. 

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think it's probably a bit early for that. I know the team likes him and are rallying around him, but the dude has played one game. Yes, he played great against the Bears but I'm assuming they'll need to see that sort of production consistently before they even start to think about jettisoning Wilson.

 

4 games last year, played well in 2 of them.  Agree its early but not hard to miss that the Jets players in the moment dig him. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[LD0506]

Ugh

 

Wilson at any price would be a bad idea, he could singlehandedly wreck the spirit Ron has built here

[Koolblue13]

Zach Wilson is the exact opposite end of the moxie scale as Heini. That would tank our locker room. Wentz proved to be a good dude, regardless of performance, but Zach Wilson is pure grade douchebag. Jay Cutler and Ryan Leaf were more likeable. 

 

That said, Heini better play normally and not suck today going into our bye week.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Zach Wilson is the exact opposite end of the moxie scale as Heini. That would tank our locker room. Wentz proved to be a good dude, regardless of performance, but Zach Wilson is pure grade douchebag. Jay Cutler and Ryan Leaf were more likeable. 

 

That said, Heini better play normally and not suck today going into our bye week.

 

NY media billing this as Daniel Jones biggest game in his career, wow

 

Jones IMO is the clear better QB but I do like Heinicke better in the clutch.  Jones will run and run and run, that's my worry.  If Heincike keeps to the trend of turning into Tom Brady level, I don't run at all, i am one of this old school QBs types then I think we lose.  He has to break out of his hibernation as to being a threat with his legs IMO.  

11 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Zach Wilson is the exact opposite end of the moxie scale as Heini. That would tank our locker room. Wentz proved to be a good dude, regardless of performance, but Zach Wilson is pure grade douchebag. Jay Cutler and Ryan Leaf were more likeable. 

 

That said, Heini better play normally and not suck today going into our bye week.

 

In college, Wilson played with moxie on steroids.    But as to the pros, I haven't really paid attention.  He's certainly immature. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

NY media billing this as Daniel Jones biggest game in his career, wow

 

Jones IMO is the clear better QB but I do like Heinicke better in the clutch.  Jones will run and run and run, that's my worry.  If Heincike keeps to the trend of turning into Tom Brady level, I don't run at all, i am one of this old school QBs types then I think we lose.  He has to break out of his hibernation as to being a threat with his legs IMO.  

 

In college, Wilson played with moxie on steroids.    But as to the pros, I haven't really paid attention.  He's certainly immature. 

Heini won't run. He doesn't do that.