The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariota and Fromm battle for QB2

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Howell is better than Pickett. Sam has a stronger arm, better mobility and can take hits.

Maybe.  We’ll see. 
 

I hope so.  Pickett has the benefit of really playing in a pro style offense and was considered the most pro ready but far. 

[zCommander]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Maybe.  We’ll see. 
 

I hope so.  Pickett has the benefit of really playing in a pro style offense and was considered the most pro ready but far. 

 

Listen to this:

 

 

[Koolblue13]

You "leave taylor along" people are too much. Like you can't watch this team and see that one huge hole on what could be an amazing team? 

10 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Listen to this:

 

 

I do not trust your over the top praise of Howell what so ever and I doubt it's genuine. 

 

I will say that it keeps me from getting excited over him though, which is probably smart.

[zCommander]

On 11/27/2022 at 5:46 PM, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Wanna have some fun?...Go back and read the posts starting on or around October 15th lol

 

 

 

I think I went too far back and found this lol  I had totally forgotten what I said over a year ago. The only QB left on that order is TH. The order I put them in is intriguing as well. The last two are no longer with the team. I was right about adding to OL and fixing the D but was off on drafting a QB in 2023 since I didn't see us winning as much as we have this year so far. But at least we got Howell this year and will see if he can be that QB instead. 

 

On 10/20/2021 at 7:41 PM, zCommander said:

Draft a QB in 2023

Fix D

Add to O

Go with TH, Fitz and Allen for this year and next. 

 

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

Anyone thought maybe we close this thread? 

 

 

Carson Wentz has more passing TDs than Russel Wilson this year.

[mh86]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Carson Wentz has more passing TDs than Russel Wilson this year.

So what you’re saying is we should trade for Russ and let him cook? Got it, fire up Commander 1

[FrFan]

On 10/21/2021 at 1:41 AM, zCommander said:

Draft a QB in 2023

 

Not until Snyder is gone

[FootballZombie]

I understand Pickett for a more traditional role, but what would Willis or Ridder do in our oblivion run O?

That could have been a real quick success story w/ questionable longevity.

[KDawg]

44 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

I understand Pickett for a more traditional role, but what would Willis or Ridder do in our oblivion run O?

That could have been a real quick success story w/ questionable longevity.

 

Are people liking Pickett? I haven't seen much from him to make me think he's much different than Heinicke. With less experience. And less moxie. 

 

So far. I want to stress that. Players develop. 

 

Willis/Ridder wouldn't have seen the field, either. Howell was probably more pro ready than both of them. If they are hesitant to put Howell on the field they'd be hesitant to put either of them on the field as well. 

 

I still don't understand why people discount Howell. He had a different season his senior year, but he had a ton of game experience, succeeded with great players around him and no one around him. Ran for ~1000 yards his senior season after losing his top two receivers, backs and some OL. Played behind a putrid OL. Has a rocket arm. Footwork is cagey but Heinicke's is as well.

 

Heinicke's edge right now is experience and playbook. Howell has better physical traits. Heinicke is a high end quarterback when it pertains to the mechanical stuff outside of footwork and decision making (which is getting better to be 100% honest.)

[FootballZombie]

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Are people liking Pickett? I haven't seen much from him to make me think he's much different than Heinicke. With less experience. And less moxie. 

 

I dunno. I have not personally seen him play to comment on his quality.

I'm just throwing around other ideas and other types of QBs.

 

I like what Howell could potentially bring with the ability to do a little bit of everything at the QB position. Some deep balls, some running, off platform stuff.

 

The bigger issue is that as a 5th rounder, he is not guaranteed his fair shake, or even much of a shake at all. He will have to hit the ground running in a starter capacity to avoid being quickly replaced w/ a higher/more expensive asset. Its a real tough spot.

 

A high cost asset can kinda suck for a while and a team will provide every opportunity. Howell's gotta take it by the reigns from day 1.

Edited November 29, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Thinking Skins]

31 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Are people liking Pickett? I haven't seen much from him to make me think he's much different than Heinicke. With less experience. And less moxie. 

 

So far. I want to stress that. Players develop. 

 

Willis/Ridder wouldn't have seen the field, either. Howell was probably more pro ready than both of them. If they are hesitant to put Howell on the field they'd be hesitant to put either of them on the field as well. 

 

I still don't understand why people discount Howell. He had a different season his senior year, but he had a ton of game experience, succeeded with great players around him and no one around him. Ran for ~1000 yards his senior season after losing his top two receivers, backs and some OL. Played behind a putrid OL. Has a rocket arm. Footwork is cagey but Heinicke's is as well.

 

Heinicke's edge right now is experience and playbook. Howell has better physical traits. Heinicke is a high end quarterback when it pertains to the mechanical stuff outside of footwork and decision making (which is getting better to be 100% honest.)

I like Howell too. He's the guy I wanted in the draft all along. But I don't see the need to create controversy. Right now he should be number 2. Heinicke is taking some shots and they thought about putting Howell in last week. It's a natural progression. People were calling for Heinicke early in the season but we didn't have to bench Wentz. He got hurt. 

 

Sand if Heinicke didn't get hurt, we can have a QB competition in the off-season. There's so much more that goes into being a good QB than just arm strength and mobility. I'm concerned about Howell between the ears and his understanding of the offense and knowing where players should line up, knowing the blitzes, reading defenses, calling hot routes, throwing with anticipation. But mostly I'm concerned with throwing him in too early while the game is still too fast and running his confidence like we did Ramsey.  

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I like Howell too. He's the guy I wanted in the draft all along. But I don't see the need to create controversy. Right now he should be number 2. Heinicke is taking some shots and they thought about putting Howell in last week. It's a natural progression. People were calling for Heinicke early in the season but we didn't have to bench Wentz. He got hurt. 

 

Sand if Heinicke didn't get hurt, we can have a QB competition in the off-season. There's so much more that goes into being a good QB than just arm strength and mobility. I'm concerned about Howell between the ears and his understanding of the offense and knowing where players should line up, knowing the blitzes, reading defenses, calling hot routes, throwing with anticipation. But mostly I'm concerned with throwing him in too early while the game is still too fast and running his confidence like we did Ramsey.  

Who said anything about controversy?

 

Where did you pull that out of?

[Skinsinparadise]

Howell, judging by his wonderlic score is a smart guy.

 

This coaching staff clearly would know where Howell is at.  The main pause it seemed about Howell listening to media draft guys talking to NFL scouts is the league is starting to sour on 6 foot and below QBs who aren't uber mobile unless they are super sold that the QB is special and they aren't sold that Howell is special.   

 

He's in odd ways, very much an amalgamation of Carson and Heinicke as @KDawg likes to point out.  I'll add a point or two to it.

 

A.  Has Wentz's level rocket arm

B.  Has Heinicke level mobility albiet MUCH better.  I thought Howell's mobility was better than Heinicke before I saw this version of Heinicke this season who is averse to running.  Now this difference is ridiculous in Howell's favor. 

C.  Better accuracy IMO than both of them

D.  Clearly doesn't have the experience reading an NFL defense and mastering an NFL offense like Wentz or Heinicke.  that to me is the wildcard,

 

His personality comes off OK but a bit odd from what I've heard.  As some scouts say its odd that he would tell anyone who would listen he's a leader and man of God -- as one of the scouts said if you are a leader you don't tell everyone you are, feels like he's trying to sell it, ditto he wants to tell just about anyone who listens at least during the draft process how religious he is.  From what I hear he's a nice guy but a bit aloof with teammates -- where he has a pocket of friends but is not a gregarious guy like a Heinicke.  He's supposedly a bit shy. But he plays with a lot of oomph so the leadership stuff as some say is felt on the field if not always in the locker room.

 

I'd be OK with rolling the dice on Howell IF the coaching staff is sold.  I am higher on this roster than some though.  I don't think this is a 9-8 type of roster regardless of who is the QB so what the heck if its Mark Brunell or Jason Campbell round 2, no harm no fawl since this roster wouldn't win with a good QB anyway. 

 

I think this is the best roster we've had sans QB in the Dan reign.  As the Junkies among others have talked about, this is a championship level defense.  I know we are accustomed by default to think we are 3 years away, because we always seem 3 years away, so what's the difference if a QB ends up holding this back.  But in my mind even though some think we are still on that hamster wheel, I think we are off it.  That's not my long-winded way of saying not to roll the dice on Howell.  I'd be perfectly OK with it if I saw some sample size.  But if I don't, its cringe worthy to me to bring this back with him and Heinicke alone unless the coaching staff privately is giddy about what they see from Howell in practice.

 

Mike Shanahan once said even if the young QB isn't immediately ready he felt like he knew what he had in a young QB once he was in the building.  Ken Zampese is regarded as one of the better QB coaches in the league, I'd trust his take whatever that is, he sees him in practice everyday, we don't. 

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I’ve watched Sam Howell play every snap of his college career and his limited preseason action.

 

If he can’t do what Heinicke is doing right now at the position, I’ll eat my hat (the big BRob one 😆).

 

A year working on footwork and fundamentals is not a bad thing. Jordan Love looked night and day different than last year against the Eagles.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Since Week 7, when Heinicke took over for the injured Carson Wentz, Washington has relied on a formula predicated on running the ball. The offense has sustained lengthy drives, dominated the clock and scored points with regularity, but it often stalled out in the red zone. Under Heinicke, Washington ranks 12th in red-zone drives (18), sixth in scoring on those drives (94 percent) and 21st in red-zone touchdown rate (50 percent), per TruMedia.

 

An inability to finish drives is particularly dangerous for an offense like Washington’s, which isn’t as explosive as a pass-first scheme and doesn’t often create separation from its opponent. The liability was highlighted against Atlanta, another ball-control team that forces opponents to maximize their limited possessions. Washington was more efficient Sunday, scoring two touchdowns and kicking a field goal in three red-zone trips, but if cornerback Kendall Fuller hadn’t made a game-sealing interception in the end zone, the Commanders leaving four points on the field would’ve been an issue.

 

“A little better,” Coach Ron Rivera said of Sunday’s red-zone offense, citing Bates’s touchdown. But he quickly pointed to one of the Commanders’ earlier chances. In the second quarter, they churned to the Atlanta 14. From there, Heinicke threw incomplete for Bates, running back Antonio Gibson was stopped after a two-yard gain, and Heinicke couldn’t hit wide receiver Terry McLaurin on a short throw to the right. Washington settled for a 30-yard field goal by Joey Slye and a 10-10 tie.

 

 

“We got to punch it in,” Rivera said.

 

The red zone has been a problem for Washington all season. In the first six weeks with Wentz, the team got to the red zone on 14 of 74 drives, the worst rate in the league (18.9 percent), and scored only 71.4 percent of the time, the second-worst rate. But the offense overcame the problem at times because it was explosive enough to score from outside the red zone. In Week 5 against Tennessee, for example, Wentz threw two touchdown passes outside the red zone — before tossing a game-losing interception in it.

Since Heinicke has taken over, Washington has had an explosive play — a rush of 12 or more yards or a pass of 16 or more — on just 9.2 percent of its plays, which ranks 26th in the NFL. This heightens the importance of the Commanders making the drives they can sustain count.

 

 

Last week, Rivera suggested his team’s struggles are tied to less effective play on first down. It’s unclear whether the data supports that notion, but it’s possible Rivera sees problems because his team is more predictable in the red zone. Washington runs 58.9 percent of the time there, the eighth-highest rate in the league. If the opposing defense doesn’t fear Heinicke’s arm or believe coordinator Scott Turner will call a pass, it can put more players in the box and stuff the run.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/11/28/commanders-red-zone-offense/

Edited November 29, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Who said anything about controversy?

 

Where did you pull that out of?

I always misread your posts. I was seeing stuff about Heinicke and Howell. Sorry about the confusion. 

[@DCGoldPants]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Since Week 7, when Heinicke.......

 

 

bro, love your posts. But the large font and/or entire articles are a bit much. Please kindly help us out and follow forum rules to keep it cleaner for my poor eyes who have had to watch decades of Snyder owned football. 

[redskinss]

I started watching a YouTube video on our turn around.

The author starts by saying we have won 6 of our last 7 largely due to taylor heinicke, I thought ok he's one of them, no biggie, it's an opinion, one I happen to disagree with but a valid opinion. 

He then says Taylor threw for 138 yards and two touchdowns and had one interception on a very questionable decision by head coach Ron rivera.

If I rolled my eyes any harder they'd be permanently stuck facing the back of my head.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@redskinss Head over to the New Start thread if you’d like a really hot take.

 

Ron Rivera gets no credit for the teams turnaround.  Because all he does is stand on the sidelines with his arms crossed.
 

All the credit goes strictly to Taylor Heinicke, because the team is playing for him and he himself has saved the whole season.

 

Perhaps the other dregs of the league should stop worrying about coaches, coordinators, and top QB prospects and just get them a likeable, undrafted guy to cure their ills.  What a bargain!

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  the next 5 games is one heck of a test.  I think SF is distinctly better than us, Dallas too.  Heinicke seemed overwhelmed by Dallas last year and the way he talked up their defense you'd think he thinks they are the 85 Bears.

 

His magic might run out.  Agree he's playing with fire.

 

Daniel Jones IMO is more accurate, has a stronger arm and is a much bigger run threat than Taylor.  And I am not a Jones guy so to speak.  I think Taylor is the better leader and is more clutch.  That one is going to be really interesting.  

The thing about Jones is that he doesn't have the intangibles. He gets sacked, fumbles, and throws costly pics. It's that between the rats stuff that's more than wonderlic. He's playing better this year but that's mainly of Barkley. Heinicke doesn't have a resume of failing like Jones. 

 

I think the thing about Heinicke is that he tries too hard to show he belongs. Like, he wants to make the throws for the TDs. But he doesn't need to. He could have checked down on that int but he wanted to big play. It's a bit of the Wentz philosophy but luckily he either makes a great play or not but goes back to his game manager type play. I don't think everybody can be a game manager because they want to take risks or they don't understand football enough. 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

The thing about Jones is that he doesn't have the intangibles. He gets sacked, fumbles, and throws costly pics. It's that between the rats stuff that's more than wonderlic. He's playing better this year but that's mainly of Barkley. Heinicke doesn't have a resume of failing like Jones. 

 

I think the thing about Heinicke is that he tries too hard to show he belongs. Like, he wants to make the throws for the TDs. But he doesn't need to. He could have checked down on that int but he wanted to big play. It's a bit of the Wentz philosophy but luckily he either makes a great play or not but goes back to his game manager type play. I don't think everybody can be a game manager because they want to take risks or they don't understand football enough. 

 

My in-laws are Giants fans as is my wife, next to this team I've watched more Giants games so I don't need the manual on Daniel Jones.  I probably wrote an encylopedia's worth about him as a college player in the draft thread so I am very famliar.

 

Do I think Jones is good?  Nope.  Do I think he's better than Taylor?  Yes.  In short he's more accurate, is MUCH more mobile and has a stronger arm.  Both put the ball in harm's way albiet Daniel seems to have conquered this demon to some extent this year and Heinicke has not.  I like Heinicke better in the clutch and I like his personality more.  They are both going to be FA's i'd wager that Daniel gets twice the money that Heinicke does.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[woodpecker]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My in-laws are Giants fans as is my wife

I know a good divorce lawyer.....

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

 

 

bro, love your posts. But the large font and/or entire articles are a bit much. Please kindly help us out and follow forum rules to keep it cleaner for my poor eyes who have had to watch decades of Snyder owned football. 

 

I cut and paste it exactly the way it comes.  I actually thought larger font anyway is good not bad?  But I'll lower the font.  Edit:  I just made the font smaller per your request.

 

As for posting full articles, I very rarely do it.  I mostly do that on the owners thread on the articles about Dan when there is a ton of detail and I get the impression that people want the detail -- no one that I can recall has ever complained about it.  it's easier for me to put less not more from the article so I only do that because I am presuming people want more not less. 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My in-laws are Giants fans as is my wife, next to this team I've watched more Giants games so I don't need the manual on Daniel Jones.  I probably wrote an encylopedia's worth about him as a college player in the draft thread so I am very famliar.

 

Do I think Jones is good?  Nope.  Do I think he's better than Taylor?  Yes.  In short he's more accurate, is MUCH more mobile and has a stronger arm.  Both put the ball in harm's way albiet Daniel seems to have conquered this demon to some extent this year and Heinicke has not.  I like Heinicke better in the clutch and I like his personality more.  They are both going to be FA's i'd wager that Daniel gets twice the money that Heinicke does.

That's interesting. I just haven't seen it from Jones. All the areas that I mentioned earlier where Heinicke improved, he's better than Jones at, taking less sacks, throwing for more first downs, higher TD percentage, same ypa but with sacks Taylor is better. 

 

I'm not saying Heinicke is a beast but I think he's undervalued. 

[@DCGoldPants]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I cut and paste it exactly the way it comes.  I actually thought larger font anyway is good not bad?  But I'll lower the font.  Edit:  I just made the font smaller per your request.

 

As for posting full articles, I very rarely do it.  I mostly do that on the owners thread on the articles about Dan when there is a ton of detail and I get the impression that people want the detail -- no one that I can recall has ever complained about it.  it's easier for me to put less not more from the article so I only do that because I am presuming people want more not less. 

 

Not attacking you. For now decades, we've gotten good at mostly, the title.... a few paragraphs and then a "click here to read more" type deal. 

 

appreciate it.