The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I just don't think Ron can sell internally to his locker room or externally to the fans Mitch is the answer at QB.  Especially when he keeps saying it's time for the team to take a big step forward.

 

Nah, if they go with Mitch, they HAVE to draft a guy in the first also.  They can't trade back and pick up a second tier guy.  Unless they are SO sure that Mitch is going to be the second coming of Joe Montana, you just can't sell that to anybody.  And Ron knows that.  NOTE: I'm not talking about selling jerseys or hats, or anything.  I mean, literally, there would be almost zero interest in the team whatsoever.  They have to drum up some interest from somewhere.  

I think he's finding the way in his head which leads to TH playing this season... Mitch comes in, fails, and, "Hey Jim, let's see what's behind door 2?"

Not really, if you read my entire post carefully, what I'm saying is that I don't think this is the year to overpay based on what's available. You guys who are down on Trubisky I get it, my theory is based on the fact that he had bad coaching in Chicago, has learned from the best (Josh Allen) in his year in Buffalo and has improved. Some team is gonna find out, possibly the NYG? And when I say pay overpay him a little that's to make sure we get someone and not have to give up tons of picks. I would not give up a #1 for Jimmy G, I'd sooner roll with Trubisky. I do think TH will be better next year but I'd go with Trubisky if he beat Taylor out. 

Again, some of you seem to think any of the rookies will be better than some of the vets out there, including TH, and the draft experts don't seem to high on them. I'd sooner build collateral for next years draft and swing for the fences in that draft. 

[Mrshadow008]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I just don't think Ron can sell internally to his locker room or externally to the fans Mitch is the answer at QB.  Especially when he keeps saying it's time for the team to take a big step forward.

 

Nah, if they go with Mitch, they HAVE to draft a guy in the first also.  They can't trade back and pick up a second tier guy.  Unless they are SO sure that Mitch is going to be the second coming of Joe Montana, you just can't sell that to anybody.  And Ron knows that.  NOTE: I'm not talking about selling jerseys or hats, or anything.  I mean, literally, there would be almost zero interest in the team whatsoever.  They have to drum up some interest from somewhere.  

I think he's finding the way in his head which leads to TH playing this season... Mitch comes in, fails, and, "Hey Jim, let's see what's behind door 2?"

Disagree on the selling the locker room part. Keep in mind we have both Leno and Lucas on the roster who were both with Mitch in Chicago. Knowing Ron he would talk to both of those guys and get their opinions on Mitch before making that move. 

20 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Not really, if you read my entire post carefully, what I'm saying is that I don't think this is the year to overpay based on what's available. You guys who are down on Trubisky I get it, my theory is based on the fact that he had bad coaching in Chicago, has learned from the best (Josh Allen) in his year in Buffalo and has improved. Some team is gonna find out, possibly the NYG? And when I say pay overpay him a little that's to make sure we get someone and not have to give up tons of picks. I would not give up a #1 for Jimmy G, I'd sooner roll with Trubisky. I do think TH will be better next year but I'd go with Trubisky if he beat Taylor out. 

Again, some of you seem to think any of the rookies will be better than some of the vets out there, including TH, and the draft experts don't seem to high on them. I'd sooner build collateral for next years draft and swing for the fences in that draft. 

Fully agree on the coaching part of it. Chicago fans couldn’t wait to get rid of Leno and Lucas as both of them were not very good in Chicago. They come here and look like totally different guys. That comes down to coaching to me. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I agree 100% on context. 
 

No, the mistake is paying a top 15-20 guy top 5-8 money. This has proven  to be a losing strategy. 

 

 

Agree.  I think where we disagree is IMO paying the 10-14 guys.  Naturally you don't pay 10-14 guys like the top 10 but its better to pay them good money then rely on dudes like Casey Keenum.  It's best to be great.  But if you can't be great, it's better to be good than mediocre. 

 

As far as contracts go.  3 things I don't think you always factor enough when you hit your cap argument

 

A.  For ANY position the top players at their spots at that given time get paid more than other dudes coming up for a contract later.  So Dak today is worth more than Rodgers 3 years ago as far as contracts go.  Same for any other position.  So when you are looking at contracts you have to factor that within the soup which is when did they get paid.

 

B.  The cap changes and increases.  You lauded for example Mahomes recently for helping the team with his contract.  He hasn't made any sacrifices he just took a staggered contract like almost every other QB does.   35 million cap hit next season, then its about 45 million after that, its going to go as high as 60 as some point.

 

C.  You like using Brady as an example and I believe alluded to maybe other players will follow suit.  It doesn't seem to be trending that way though. Brady is a unicorn on this front.  I dont see a category of players taking on the Brady model on this so to speak.

 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

The Titans, Colts, Vikings, Lions, and Falcons all would take the Commanders current QB situation over there’s (pure speculation :)).

 

I am sure you would.   I am surprised you don't add the Raiders, too.   I doubt any of those teams are jealous about us having Heinicke over their guy even with the bigger cap hit they face with the exception of Wentz because of his personality issues. 

 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

It’s an outlier for any QB to win the SB outside of a select few historically. I don’t disagree having an elite guy is the way to go, but they lose the majority of the time as well. 

 

Don't get the point of making this point.  So the odds that a specific elite QB isn't going to win the SB isn't high because it will be different often elite QBs winning it every year?  So it could be Mahomes, or Wilson, or Brady or Manning but it changes aside from Brady's clear dominance.  True, I know but it doesn't argue against my point. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

 

[Redskins 2021]

12 minutes ago, RWJ said:

 

I think Pickett would be good enough.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Disagree on the selling the locker room part. Keep in mind we have both Leno and Lucas on the roster who were both with Mitch in Chicago. Knowing Ron he would talk to both of those guys and get their opinions on Mitch before making that move. 

Are you sure both of them would want him here?

 

Also, the backup RT (I always get which is which messed up) is a FA.

 

 

[Burgold]

Just now, Redskins 2021 said:

I think I could live with Pickett 

The name scares the heck out of me. It's just mocking fate. The guy was born to be a turnover machine. I'd want a cornerback named Pickett not a QB

[NoCalMike]

It is hard to to overpay for a QB to some extent, but there are also still levels to how much you will overpay depending on their skillset and what tier they fall into.

[D’Pablo]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

So we need the next Brady or a #1 pick for a QB that is actually worthy of that pick. Easy.

Going back to 2000, there’s all of two Super Bowl winners that traded away picks to get their QBs (Giants and Rams). Yes, some luck is needed, but drafting your QB in the first round yields better results (just not for us). Folks want us dismantling our defensive line and trading away all our firsts for half a decade for a QB whose performances in the Super Bowl were always overshadowed by his “Legion of Boom” defense. We should sell the farm for an undersized recently-injured over 30 QB? I can recall doing something like this for Brad Johnson, who went on to win the Super Bowl… for Tampa Bay… without having to give up any picks.

[Mrshadow008]

18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Are you sure both of them would want him here?

 

Also, the backup RT (I always get which is which messed up) is a FA.

 

 

No I’m not sure if they both would. But I do think Ron would get their opinions and take their opinions into account before signing trubisky especially if they said he wasn’t a good locker room guy. You’re right forgot Lucas is an upcoming fa but I could see them resigning him he played quite a bit last year in relief of cosmi and played fairly well. 

[D’Pablo]

1:21 - Ridder ragging on teammate for the worst sin possible.

Edited February 14, 2022 by D’Pablo

[skins4ever28]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

My QB tier list 

I agree with this list 100%

[zCommander]

55 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I think Pickett would be good enough.

 

His hands are not big enough for NFL size footballs. Corral would be my first choice and then Willis.  

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

I definitely think they've made some bone-headed moves, but I have come to appreciate their approach.

 

 

I am not big on trading a first for a receiver who isn't elite or a 2nd rounder for a Wr who is at best a 2nd tier WR.   I think the Rams go too far as for trading picks.  But clearly the Stafford trade paid dividends even though some considered it an overpay.

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

And I disagree.  I'd use draft picks to get top-end edge rushers, LTs, Cornerbacks, and extreme high-end talent.  

 

 

Depends on context for me.  Who is the player and what is the compensation.  I've not been opposed to trading picks for players in the past, I was talking specifically about those specific deals which I didn't love.

 

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I mean, the only example which kindof fits would be the RGIII trade, and I get that it was a bit different because they traded up for a pick and not a vet.  But that was the one time they REALLY tried to go after an ace.  Otherwise it's been a slew of "meh, ok" crap that you mentioned. Even in the draft, it was Ramsey, JC and Haskins. All "Meh" at best attempts.  

 

 

I don't fault them for swinging for the fences, I like swinging for the fences, it was the only time they did. 

 

My point thought is though some slam the idea of trading picks for a veteran, at least you know they are good.  If you give up a ton of picks for an unknown, the price you pay is big if you miss, yeah not from a cap stand point but from the stand point that its hard to swing again after missing since you wouldn't have the picks to do it.

 

So for example if they swing this year and miss without trading up, they can still swing next year.  So I am ok with the idea of swinging multiple years for QBs in a draft.  If you swing hard for a QB in the draft you better be right.

 

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

Russ would be an amazing get.  I still think when all is said and done, he stays in Seattle until the end of his contract and then leaves via FA.  I could absolutely see a world where they come to a gentleman's agreement that he plays out the next 2 years, then they don't franchise him.

 

I agree with the one poster here who says they trade him next year.  

Edited February 15, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim's podcast today.

 

A.  Heinicke is not seen a starter around the league or by the team.  At best he's seen as a low tier starter.  This team wants to upgrade

 

B.  Stafford wasn't to be had last year unless they outbid the Rams.  They wanted to do Stafford a solid and let him go where he wanted.  

 

C.  Wilson won't be traded unless they get an offer that blows them away.  If the Seattle loved this draft at QB maybe it would be more possible.  In short, Seattle don't want to run the next season without a QB.

 

D.  If Burrow dropped to #2 or could trade up they'd have taken him, they loved Burrow in that draft.

 

E.  The previous regime loved Murray, he's not sure what the current regime thinks of him

 

F.  He thinks we'd take Pickett over Willis if they are still looking for a Qb by the time the draft hits

 

G.  Talked about there are problems that's hard to fix about Trubisky that have nothing to do with Nagy

 

H.  The FO looks to hit a homerun at that spot

 

I.  Looking for a leader at the QB spot, then questioned whether Trubisky is that

 

J.  There is a chance Wentz becomes available.  Keim thinks they should stay clear of him.

 

K.  Rivera knew even during the win streak that they had to upgrade at QB and they planned to be aggressive to do it

 

L.  MLB is the top priority at defense, they will look hard to upgrade

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Draft Network. Again another example that some nationally like our roster better than some of our own fans.

 

 

 

According to multiple reports, certain NFL executives are of the belief that the Washington Commanders may consider acquiring San Francisco 49ers quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo via a blockbuster trade this offseason. In this particular scenario, said executive envisions the potential need for a veteran quarterback trumping the drafting of a rookie signal-caller that would suffer through an acclimation period. 

The Commanders possess a quality roster that’s capable of winning immediately, so it’s plausible to understand why they could prefer to go the veteran route. Washington currently owns the 11th overall selection in the 2022 NFL Draft, and the 49ers may request this selection in exchange for Garoppolo, who is almost certainly going to be traded this offseason. The writing was on the wall for Garoppolo when San Francisco traded a plethora of immediate and future draft capital in order to acquire North Dakota State's Trey Lance in the 2021 draft. The Commanders are one of many teams expected to seek an upgrade under center this offseason, and Garoppolo will be connected to just about every team in Washington's position this offseason.

 

However, the Commanders would be silly to partake in such trade discussions and should set their aims significantly higher than what Garoppolo brings to the table. 

 

Firstly, general manager Martin Mayhew and his scouting staff must thoroughly vet the quarterbacks available in the upcoming draft. Should they identify Matt Corral, Kenny Pickett, or Malik Willis as a quarterback that's capable of positively altering the direction of their franchise, then the choice at 11th overall becomes straightforward. The drafting of a quality signal-caller in the first round represents the best-case scenario for Washington and their quarterback-based conundrum.

Should Mayhew and head coach Ron Rivera find themselves dissatisfied with the crop of rookie quarterbacks and prefer to acquire a veteran instead, they would be wise to put their efforts behind attracting a quarterback that comes with fewer question marks and a more stellar resume. Several proven signal-callers may find themselves on the move this offseason, with the likes of Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, and Kirk Cousins potentially being available via trade. The Commanders should certainly make the necessary efforts to acquire such a signal-caller before lowering their expectations to a level that includes Garoppolo.

Playmakers such as Terry McLaurin and Antonio Gibson deserve to play with a quarterback that matches their impressive talents. The Commanders are a quarterback away from truly competing for a division title in the NFC East. They possess a plethora of talent on the defensive side of the ball, including Chase Young and Montez Sweat. This is a quality roster that would greatly benefit from an upgrade at the quarterback position.

There's a good reason the 49ers are choosing to move on from Garoppolo despite qualifying for the NFC Championship Game this season and the Super Bowl three campaigns ago. Kyle Shanahan and the 49ers have largely been successful in spite of Garoppolo's less-than-desirable play while being forced to lean on their run game, defense, and special teams prowess en route to unlikely playoff runs. The path to a Super Bowl can feature Garoppolo if everything else is going right, but it's an unlikely outcome in a league that is well-stocked with young quarterback talent. 

The Commanders would be wise to remember this ever-important fact when making their quarterback-based decision this offseason.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/jimmy-garoppolo-trade-washington-commanders

[Redskins 2021]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim's podcast today.

 

A.  Heinicke is not seen a starter around the league or by the team.  At best he's seen as a low tier starter.  This team wants to upgrade

 

B.  Stafford wasn't to be had last year unless they outbid the Rams.  They wanted to do Stafford a solid and let him go where he wanted.  

 

C.  Wilson won't be traded unless they get an offer that blows them away.  If the Seattle loved this draft at QB maybe it would be more possible.  In short, Seattle don't want to run the next season without a QB.

 

D.  If Burrow dropped to #2 or could trade up they'd have taken him, they loved Burrow in that draft.

 

E.  The previous regime loved Murray, he's not sure what the current regime thinks of him

 

F.  He thinks we'd take Pickett over Willis if they are still looking for a Qb by the time the draft hits

 

G.  Talked about there are problems that's hard to fix about Trubisky that have nothing to do with Nagy

 

H.  The FO looks to hit a homerun at that spot

 

I.  Looking for a leader at the QB spot, then questioned whether Trubisky is that

 

J.  There is a chance Wentz becomes available.  Keim thinks they should stay clear of him.

 

K.  Rivera knew even during the win streak that they had to upgrade at QB and they planned to be aggressive to do it

 

L.  MLB is the top priority at defense, they will look hard to upgrade

 

 

Has anyone asked Keim which Qb he thinks are actually available. I get the feeling it's JimmyG, Watson, and Wentz and not much else. Also, did he say anything about Seattle trading or cutting Wagner. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Has anyone asked Keim which Qb he thinks are actually available. I get the feeling it's JimmyG, Watson, and Wentz and not much else. Also, did he say anything about Seattle trading or cutting Wagner. 

 

Not much aside from Jimmy G being available which we all know.  He did allude to action could happen soon one way or another in general as to the QB spot.  He mentioned its a maybe as for Wentz.  His main talk about Watson is he heard Watson is a hard no about coming here.    He didn't talk about Wagner.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Power rankings. So we are dead last in the league in QBR since 2017, at least we are tops in something

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33248624/early-nfl-power-rankings-2022-1-32-poll-where-super-bowl-teams-rams-bengals-land

25. Washington Commanders

2021 record: 7-10

Offseason in three or fewer words: Another QB search

Washington has started 32 quarterbacks since it last won the Super Bowl after the 1991 season -- and eight passers in the past three years. While the Commanders like Taylor Heinicke as a high-end backup, they're definitely searching for "The Guy" this offseason. Since Kirk Cousins left after the 2017 season, Washington has the NFL's worst total QBR (36.7). In Ron Rivera's first two seasons as coach the team is 30th (35.3). Washington will pursue the big names who might be available, but it will be difficult to not only get teams to agree to a trade, but then to have quarterbacks such as Russell Wilson or Watson waive no-trade clauses to come here. -- John Keim

[Redskins 2021]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Power rankings. So we are dead last in the league in QBR since 2017, at least we are tops in something

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33248624/early-nfl-power-rankings-2022-1-32-poll-where-super-bowl-teams-rams-bengals-land

25. Washington Commanders

 

2021 record: 7-10

Offseason in three or fewer words: Another QB search

Washington has started 32 quarterbacks since it last won the Super Bowl after the 1991 season -- and eight passers in the past three years. While the Commanders like Taylor Heinicke as a high-end backup, they're definitely searching for "The Guy" this offseason. Since Kirk Cousins left after the 2017 season, Washington has the NFL's worst total QBR (36.7). In Ron Rivera's first two seasons as coach the team is 30th (35.3). Washington will pursue the big names who might be available, but it will be difficult to not only get teams to agree to a trade, but then to have quarterbacks such as Russell Wilson or Watson waive no-trade clauses to come here. -- John Keim

I dont know if it was Keim but there was a rumor one of the insider side they were hearing there was a surprising rumored Qb who could be available. That could really change the market. They did not go into further details. I am starting to think that could be Lamar Jackson.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

The name scares the heck out of me. It's just mocking fate. The guy was born to be a turnover machine. I'd want a cornerback named Pickett not a QB

 

Hey if we can have a kicker named Blewitt we can dang sure have a QB named....

 

OK, point conceded.

 

 

w/ a name like "Pick" dude has to have a nickname right?

 

 

[DWinzit]

I will be pissed if they trade 11 for Jimmy G...that's a stupid and desperate move.  He is not worth it.

I would be okay if they did trade for Mayfield'

[Redskins 2021]

Just now, DWinzit said:

I will be pissed if they trade 11 for Jimmy G...that's a stupid and desperate move.  He is not worth it.

I would be okay if they did trade for Mayfield'

I be ok with it if they got sf 2nd round pick with it

[DWinzit]

Just now, Redskins 2021 said:

I be ok with it if they got sf 2nd round pick with it

sure but Jimmy is not worth 11 straight up at all

[HigSkin]

9 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I dont know if it was Keim but there was a rumor one of the insider side they were hearing there was a surprising rumored Qb who could be available. That could really change the market. They did not go into further details. I am starting to think that could be Lamar Jackson.

 

Pretty sure it was Standig and SIP posted about it Friday.

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by HigSkin