The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[CommanderInTheRye]

These are my admitedly disjointed, occasionally out of sequence notes from Sheehan's interview of Chris Cooley, which you can listen to at the link provided.

 

I had intended to organize them onto a coherent post, but I'm a little tired for some reason this morning. 

 

Sorry about that.

 

https://megaphone.link/BLU4451887406

 

 

Cooley on Jayden Daniels

 

Negatives

Takes HARD Hits!!!

Medium arm strength, doesn't have a rifle, but has great touch. Can make all of the throws.

 

Has great feet in the pocket-- really improved on that vs previous years

Reads defenses and identifies quickly

Gets through progressions super fast

Can work all concepts-- short, spacing, two by two, drives ball perfectly over lbs, very accurate and catchable ball

 

Takes some risks but has a feel for the flow of the game-- takes risks for the most part when his team really needs it.

 

Understands what's happening

Not fooled by defense trickery

Sophisticated SEC defenses tried everything against him

He just gets it

Processes very fast

Has good feel for the flow of the game

 

Cooley-- doesn't think he needs to gain weight. Has a very athletic body. Maybe could gain another 5 to 6 pounds but not an issue for me. 

 

At lsu every game is life or death for a championship. He had major national title pressure every single game and he was always calm and in control. Defenses tried but could never intimidate or get to him. Cool in pocket, cool under pressure, cool when behind. Great demeanor.

 

He's not perfect-- list negatives

-- doesn't have a rifle, but his touch and feel is so good it doesn't matter.

-- Too many hits

Throws very catchable ball.

Has football instincts

Just gets it

 

Much more versatile than Lamar was coming into the league. Don't have to rely on run to bail him out like baltimore did with Lamar his first year. Scheme versatility.

 

Cooley said he could be cj stroud next year.

He opens the door to doing a lot as a rookie qb. Don't have to dummy down the offense for him.

He's ready to play well now. 

 

 

Calm in pocket

Cool under pressure

He's a walking freaking hilight reel.

Players like him

 

How is this not our pick at two?

 

This is my guy. I love him. I don't think we need to bother looking at film of other qbs.

 

This is my guy at number two!

 

Defenses will have to change their gameplan for him.

His game transfers well to the NFL.

He did all this in the sec. He's seen top defenders each week.

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15 by CommanderInTheRye

[JMURedskins]

Watching LSU games this year, he was a large reason that they won 9 games in the regular season.  No way they win 9 games with Nussmeier.  LSUs defense was so bad.  Daniels constantly had to make plays to keep them in games they had no business winning.

 

As far as the bowl games, it’s hard to compare to regular season play.  Lots of prep time and other variables.  LSUs back up(Nussmeier) was a really good prospect out of high school and will be the starter this year.  It doesn’t look like Conner Harrell is set to start for UNC in 2024

[Conn]

1 hour ago, HogsVa7 said:

Some of you guys are going to get your feelings hurt when we draft Daniels. It's obvious what we're going to do. The free agent signings has a lot to do with how we are improving the team. They have clearly said we are not in a rebuild mode but we are going to be competitive and compete for Super Bowls. Drake Maye doesn't do anything for us this year if he's on this team. He has a lot of work to do. He doesn't have the IT factor. He's not a game changer at all. Some of yall think I'm trolling,  but im not. I've seen just about all his games because I'm a die hard Uva fan which lol.... doesn't say much but they beat him, so I've seen plenty of ACC football this year. Stay away from him. His mechanics is awful and just with the eye test he doesn't have it. Jayden Daniels right now fits us better especially with Kliff Kingsbury system.  A lot of you guys always project for the future. It's always next year and build for the future. The Snyder era has gotten to yall. Their is a new regime and they're ready to roll. It Daniels. 

I don’t think you’re trolling, I just don’t think you know how to meaningfully contribute to the conversation. It’s like the difference between murder and manslaughter. 

[skinny21]

17 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I was referring to the bowl game which he opted out of.

Yep exactly. My point is that Daniels has basically always had a stacked(or at least well above average) supporting cast as evidenced by his backup lighting it up.

 

When Maye's backup had to play in their bowl game, UNC looked downright atrocious and got smashed by W freaking VU.

 

Maye elevated that program and was the only reason they even had a chance.

To be fair, Nussmeier (4 star recruit 12th ranked qb) was a junior that played (presumably minimally though) in 18 games with 219 passes, vs Harrell (3 star recruit, 42nd qb) who was a redshirt freshman playing in his first game.  Not discounting your point, it’s definitely something to factor in, it’s just tricky to view it as apples to apples though.  

[seamonster]

What am I missing about JD? He's got a mediocre (average) arm, slender, regressed years two and three, was surrounded by perennial talent at wide receiver and he takes bad hits because he scrambles out of (clean) pockets 10% of the time -- which is absurdly high. I don't watch college so maybe there's some aspect of his game I'm blind too (quick release? Mechanics? elite at reading defenses?). If it's just "he's electric" than god speed Adam Peters.

[SoCalSkins]

36 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

If you ever want to talk flag football, hollar at your boy.

I will take you up on that. I’m a little obsessed with it. I setup GoPros and record all

my opponents in advance and spend far too much time on very week prepping. My daughter started playing this year as well. So I coach a 1st/2nd girls team and my son’s 3/4 boys team. Both are Commanders. The girls all come from a soccer background. They have great movement skills but zero hand eye coordination and it’s so different coaching girls. Herding cats basically. 😂 

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, seamonster said:

What am I missing about JD? He's got a mediocre (average) arm, slender, regressed years two and three, was surrounded by perennial talent at wide receiver and he takes bad hits because he scrambles out of (clean) pockets 10% of the time -- which is absurdly high. I don't watch college so maybe there's some aspect of his game I'm blind too (quick release? Mechanics? elite at reading defenses?). If it's just "he's electric" than god speed Adam Peters.

You're missing nothing. Absolutely nothing. It really is that simple but people are just falling for the same RG3/Justin Fields trap.

 

Although yeah he does have a really quick release and overall pretty clean mechanics. He's not a terrible prospect on the Malik Willis level but he's clearly QB3 at best and I don't think its that close.

Edited April 15 by Warhead36

[e16bball]

44 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Of course that was also pitting the 13th ranked 10-3 LSU from the SEC vs un-ranked Wisconson who was 7-6 from the Big 10.

Wisconsin was a top 20 scoring defense and right around 30th nationally in defensive efficiency. They weren’t slouches on that side of the ball (though their offense stunk), especially against the pass. Coming into the LSU game, they’d given up only 193 yards per game through the air. 

 

Nussmeier threw for almost 400 yards and 3 TDs in place of Daniels, despite playing about 3 quarters without Nabers.

 

For the sake of comparison, Maye’s backup (Conner Harrell) took 7 sacks, threw 2 picks, and mustered a total of 10 points against a weaker WVU defense. In fairness, he played all 4 quarters without Tez Walker (if you consider that to be a bad thing).

 

Obviously, as with all data, do with it what you will. It certainly doesn’t totally disqualify or invalidate Daniels in my book. But when one of the narratives here is that Daniels looked better than Maye primarily because of the quality of his supporting cast — there’s probably some meaningful corroborating evidence for that notion in the fact that his backup didn’t miss a beat when he stepped in, while Maye’s got throttled.

[Llevron]

20 minutes ago, Conn said:

I don’t think you’re trolling, I just don’t think you know how to meaningfully contribute to the conversation. It’s like the difference between murder and manslaughter. 

 

This is so ****ing funny to me lol 

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, e16bball said:

 

Obviously, as with all data, do with it what you will. It certainly doesn’t totally disqualify or invalidate Daniels in my book. But when one of the narratives here is that Daniels looked better than Maye primarily because of the quality of his supporting cast — there’s probably some meaningful corroborating evidence for that notion in the fact that his backup didn’t miss a beat when he stepped in, while Maye’s got throttled.

Exactly.

 

You take a QB #2 you want a guy who can elevate your franchise. Look at what Mahomes has done with no WRs. Look at how Allen basically willed a broken Bills team to the playoffs and was on the verge of a title game. Look at how good the Jags were playing with a healthy Lawrence and how they fell apart after he got hurt(ditto Bengals with Burrow).

 

Maye has shown the ability to elevate a team at a super young age. Give him a couple years of NFL experience and by age 23 you have yourself a franchise carrying QB who STILL has room to grow.

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Exactly.

 

You take a QB #2 you want a guy who can elevate your franchise. Look at what Mahomes has done with no WRs. Look at how Allen basically willed a broken Bills team to the playoffs and was on the verge of a title game. Look at how good the Jags were playing with a healthy Lawrence and how they fell apart after he got hurt(ditto Bengals with Burrow).

 

Maye has shown the ability to elevate a team at a super young age. Give him a couple years of NFL experience and by age 23 you have yourself a franchise carrying QB who STILL has room to grow.

 

You are kidding yourself if you think he can walk into the NFL and do this. He is not Mahomes yet, neither of them are and there is no guarantee he ever accumulates as many starts as Daniels has today. You would draft him hoping all this stuff will happen. You speak on it like its a guarantee. 

[FootballZombie]

6 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Wisconsin was a top 20 scoring defense and right around 30th nationally in defensive efficiency. They weren’t slouches on that side of the ball (though their offense stunk), especially against the pass. Coming into the LSU game, they’d given up only 193 yards per game through the air. 

 

Yeah...

I don't care much about rankings vs unequal opponents. You can't normalize College ball like that.

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

You are kidding yourself if you think he can walk into the NFL and do this. He is not Mahomes yet, neither of them are and there is no guarantee he ever accumulates as many starts as Daniels has today. You would draft him hoping all this stuff will happen. You speak on it like its a guarantee. 

Of course its not a guarantee. My point is Maye has shown the ability to to do this so far. Its all about projection. I don't care who the best QB is in 2024, I want the guy who will be the best from 2025-2035 and give me a legit chance at a playoff run every year.

 

If Maye pans out and we have to pay him, we'll be fine because he's shown he doesn't need world breaking WRs or OL. Daniels will fall off completely without an all world cast.

[seamonster]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

You are kidding yourself if you think he can walk into the NFL and do this. He is not Mahomes yet, neither of them are and there is no guarantee he ever accumulates as many starts as Daniels has today. You would draft him hoping all this stuff will happen. You speak on it like its a guarantee. 

 

What I like about JD is that he could probably do OK from from day one as long as he's not being asked to run an Andy Reid offense. He could easily run for 80 yards and throw his soft touch passes and be competent for teams that need to win now.  Washington needs a big armed QB that has a high ceiling because nobody expects them to be the 49ers in September. Build the team and find a QB that's got the highest ceiling. If they can trade back and soak these desperate teams -- and still draft their guy  -- than all the better in my mind.

[shemp nixon]

IMO there are too many people in this thread speaking in absolutes about things they do not know.

[Warhead36]

So just listened to Cooley's Daniels take on 980. I'll admit it does jazz me up a little bit, since Cooley's track record with QBs is actually pretty damn good.

 

Let me preface though, I don't hate Daniels as a prospect in general. I just don't like taking him #2 overall when Maye represents more long term upside.

 

If we were picking #3, and Williams-Maye went 1-2, then sure, take a stab at Daniels and see if he can be a home run.

 

I think if we take Daniels, we have to try to go all in as soon as possible. He won't last as long and he's going to be a lot more reliant on having a really good supporting cast, which we won't be able to afford in 3-4 years when we have to pay him big bucks.

 

With Daniels your looking at a much shorter prime contention window.

[The Consigliere]

41 minutes ago, JMURedskins said:

Watching LSU games this year, he was a large reason that they won 9 games in the regular season.  No way they win 9 games with Nussmeier.  LSUs defense was so bad.  Daniels constantly had to make plays to keep them in games they had no business winning.

 

As far as the bowl games, it’s hard to compare to regular season play.  Lots of prep time and other variables.  LSUs back up(Nussmeier) was a really good prospect out of high school and will be the starter this year.  It doesn’t look like Conner Harrell is set to start for UNC in 2024

I don't think anyone would argue that he wasn't spectacular in '23, he was. There's just a litany of arguments and reasons as to why, he finally put together a season like Maye's first, only in his 5th year, while playing with a guy who was the WR1 in college last year (and was excellent throughout his career at LSU, just went from damn good to god mode in '23) supporting cast etc....Debate is to why it took so long and what it means etc, but there's no arguing that part of the awesomeness in '23 of the LSU offense was 1000% Daniels, he was ridiculous. 

[kingdaddy]

12 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

If it’s Daniels draft night it’s going to take me a while to adjust to the idea. I have my 3rd/4th grade flag football practice that night and a big game Friday night so I will have a distraction. 
 

Btw, I think I’m the only Commanders team that has had sustained success at any age group! We were undefeated last season and 4-0 so far this year. When people around the park in south Orange County California hear Commanders they think football powerhouse! My QB is a dual threat baller. Should be ready for the 2035 draft.
 

I can't believe this group of studs allowed 2 TD's this season???? Way to represent, love the jerseys and the socks!

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

I don't think anyone would argue that he wasn't spectacular in '23, he was. There's just a litany of arguments and reasons as to why, he finally put together a season like Maye's first, only in his 5th year, while playing with a guy who was the WR1 in college last year (and was excellent throughout his career at LSU, just went from damn good to god mode in '23) supporting cast etc....Debate is to why it took so long and what it means etc, but there's no arguing that part of the awesomeness in '23 of the LSU offense was 1000% Daniels, he was ridiculous. 

The thing is, the argument isn't "Who was the better college QB in 2023?" That answer is Daniels without a doubt. There is no arguing against that. He was a fantastic college QB. No doubts.

 

But we don't want the best college QB. We want the guy whos game best translates to the NFL in 2024 and for the next decade+ beyond.

[Dah-Dee]

9 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Yeah...

I don't care much about rankings vs unequal opponents. You can't normalize College ball like that.

 

This is a good point and something that's seemingly ignored when comparing Maye to Daniels. LSU had the #17 strength of schedule last year (#2 in 2022), while UNC was #71 - the fourth weakest schedule for any Power 5 school. So while Daniels had better weapons overall than Maye, he also consistently faced much tougher competition.

 

Similarly, in the bowl games, LSU faced Wisconsin, which ran up that okay-ish defensive ranking against the 60th-ranked schedule, with an experienced and elite prospect at QB, while UNC faced West Virginia - which played the 28th ranked schedule - with a redshirt freshman making his first start and who won't likely be the UNC starter this year. OF COURSE the Tigers did better in the bowl game than UNC did, tells us nothing about Maye or Daniels.

[The Consigliere]

16 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

You are kidding yourself if you think he can walk into the NFL and do this. He is not Mahomes yet, neither of them are and there is no guarantee he ever accumulates as many starts as Daniels has today. You would draft him hoping all this stuff will happen. You speak on it like its a guarantee. 

It's not that, it's just more likely that Maye can become that, than Daniels and more likely that Maye if he fails, is still an NFL level QB. 

 

I think Daniels will probably hit to some extent, I just think Maye is a better investment, long term, across the board, in terms of risk, ceiling, floor. But we all know that at best, Maye and Daniels have somewhere between a 45% and 55-60% chance of being multi contract starters in this league. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

It’s also why those lessons he took from the 360 he did with Okmin have proven to be so valuable over the past three months—because if he couldn’t delegate or manage time effectively, he’d either be neglecting the looming decision on which quarterback to take with the second pick, or he’d be giving other areas of he and Peters’s build short shrift, neither of which he could afford to do.

 In this hectic window, with most of the players just getting to know him, and each other, on a remade roster, and the draft just days away, he’s typically getting to the facility around 5:30 a.m. every day, and leaving between 8:30 and 9 p.m. The players are in from 9–1, with the offensive and defensive linemen usually lifting over the first two hours and meeting for the next two, with the offensive skill guys, and defensive back seven, doing the reverse.

 

It’s done intentionally that way so offensive and defensive players mix together in a way they might not have in the past, and part of a larger effort to accelerate the connection between all members of the operation. Everyone’s in a different locker than they were last year. Everyone has a different seat in meetings. Everyone’s getting a fresh view of everything and, just as important, everyone in the building.

And that doesn’t stop with the players—it’s also been between he and his coaches, and Peters’s scouting staff, and Quinn and Peters themselves.

 “Adam’s superpower is finding what the team needs,” Quinn says. “It’s not always the same, no matter where you’re at. He’s scouted at New England, which is different than Denver, which was different than San Francisco. Getting everybody together to know exactly what we’re looking for and how we want to play, that’s really important. This time right now between coaches and scouts is good to have discussions.

 

“I see it like this: Did you watch this game? These are some of the traits I saw. Think of all that like you and me and Adam, we’d all be around a table just discussing one player. Then on to the next player and the next player.”

At a baseline, it started with profile tapes Peters and Quinn made to show each other what they’d look for in each position. Coordinators Kliff Kingsbury, Joe Whitt Jr. and Larry Izzo then worked on more with their position coaches. They did it for free agency, went through the process again for the draft, and now they’re into draft meetings.

 Which, again, is where delegating and time management has become key.

 

 

...first came at the combine, where the Commanders got 15 minutes with each of the QBs, something they used to gather background. The second was the three Zoom calls that teams are allowed with each. That’s where they started on the football stuff. It was, as Quinn described it, relaxed—“Tell me about why you like this concept, tell me about what this is, where’s your read?” Then, came the pro days, and Peters, Quinn and Kingsbury were in Baton Rouge, Chapel Hill and Ann Arbor for those.

“Mainly, you just want to see them compete there.” Quinn says. “What are the things you’ve been working on? Let me see if I see that today. I usually ask that as a question—what was the No. 1 thing, when you went away to train for these X amount of days or months, that you wanted to get to? Everybody’s got a little bit of something. If you and I went away to go to quarterback school, we’d both go into there with different things and hopefully leave there netting some of those goals. I would check in on that.”

Edited April 15 by Skinsinparadise

[Kalu44]

44 minutes ago, seamonster said:

What am I missing about JD? He's got a mediocre (average) arm, slender, regressed years two and three, was surrounded by perennial talent at wide receiver and he takes bad hits because he scrambles out of (clean) pockets 10% of the time -- which is absurdly high. I don't watch college so maybe there's some aspect of his game I'm blind too (quick release? Mechanics? elite at reading defenses?). If it's just "he's electric" than god speed Adam Peters.

JD does have elite progression reads from everything I’ve read. I value that trait probably above all else in terms of a QB. You can get away with an average arm, if you can go through your progressions quickly and read defenses.

[The Consigliere]

16 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Of course its not a guarantee. My point is Maye has shown the ability to to do this so far. Its all about projection. I don't care who the best QB is in 2024, I want the guy who will be the best from 2025-2035 and give me a legit chance at a playoff run every year.

 

If Maye pans out and we have to pay him, we'll be fine because he's shown he doesn't need world breaking WRs or OL. Daniels will fall off completely without an all world cast.

I agree w/you until the very end.

 

I think its more a case of Daniels has never had to play with garbage supporting cast, it's not that he's going to be horrible w/o one, it's that we don't know how much his play falls off if he's suddenly no longer playing with a litany of top 20 caliber draft picks, and day 2 supporting cast level #2-#3 WR's etc. We just don't know because ASU and LSU did a fantastic job of recruiting talent onto his offenses. As you say, we know Maye can play no matter how ----- the supporting cast, Daniels? No idea. 

 

But yeah, similarly, I view Maye as the best investment for 2024-2036, I feel like Daniels is a lesser investment where the value is most likely to be 2024-2029. In a lot of ways Daniels just makes more sense for Minny and othe ready to win teams, depends upon if he can stay healthy, but you also lose 2 years to Maye if they both hit, plus with Daniels injury and age out horizon, just seems like a better invesment w/teams that are further along in their builds (atlanta precousins, minny, chicago if they didn't have the 1.01 etc). 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, Conn said:

I’ve been watching more Daniels to talk myself into it if that’s the way we go. I prefer Maye, many of the people whose opinions I respect prefer Maye—but at the end of the day, it’s not gonna be healthy for me to have a negative reaction on draft night on what should be a celebratory weekend—new owner, new GM, new coaching staff, #2 pick in a great QB class being just the first of many premium draft picks…I need to get over myself, is my viewpoint.

 

On the other hand, I just don’t believe the smoke. Right up until draft day people thought guys like Levis and Willis were going top 5. Just a few years ago people, including Schefter, swore up and down that the 49ers were taking Mac Jones. I just don’t believe the smoke is smoke, as much as it’s scuttlebutt coming from particular NFL sources, reported by legit guys like Keim and Schefter, and then repeated by less connected people until it’s an echo chamber. Especially since both Keim and Schefter have openly said their info is coming from outside the organization. 
 

I’m not engaging in wishful thinking—I’m still preparing for the pick to potentially be Daniels. I’m not in denial about the possibility, even likelihood. But in the end I just don’t believe the smoke means anything. None of them have a clue, regardless of what the rest of the NFL—most of whom don’t have incentive to dig as deep on these QB’s they don’t have a chance to draft—thinks. The only teams digging into these guys as deeply as Washington are the teams incentivized to lie their asses off.

 

My guess is 50-50.  It totally could be Maye.  That's who i prefer.  But i like Daniels too -- so I won't be blowing a gasket or even have to talk myself into it. My surprise would be McCarthy.  But them taking Maye wouldn't surprise me one whit.  Ditto Daniels.

 

The one thing that is making me think its more likely Daniels ironically is that total confidence that some have that Maye is by a mile the better prospect.   It feels like walking into some bad karma and I've heard enough to know that's an outlier position, for those who think its Maye by a mile and any other option is foolish -- juxtaposed versus how the NFL is thinking about this -- at least from the standpoint of the leaks thus far.

 

I do think these QB meetings this week matters.  I do think its possible that its close in the eyes of the FO right now and whatever happens could tip the balance.

 

Do I buy what Schefter, Breer, Keim among others have said that the coaches-personnel people they spoke to prefer Daniels, and its overwhelming the numbers who prefer him versus it being tight.  100% i believe it.  These guys have no reason to lie.  And no i don't think as some do here that these people are purposely lying to the reporters considering they said these are dudes without skin in the game. 

 

But!  Just because others in the league prefer Daniels doesn't mean this FO does.  What this FO thinks is a total mystery.

Edited April 15 by Skinsinparadise