The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[FootballZombie]

7 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

My RG3 PTSD is too strong to get excited about Daniels but IF he's the guy and he lasts a full season without getting injured or taking nasty hits, I'll be less anxious!

 

I'd make my boy da slide coach a very rich and happy man day 1.

His existence would gain a new and singular purpose, hunting the most dangerous game of all.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

My RG3 PTSD is too strong to get excited about Daniels but IF he's the guy and he lasts a full season without getting injured or taking nasty hits, I'll be less anxious!

 

Am a bit worried about that too.  Two things that might help

 

A.  RG3 already had an ACL tear in college and that next injury in the pros basically finished him off.  Daniels doesn't have an injured knee already

 

B. Because of injuries like RG3, i get the vibe that some teams are more aware and stress the idea of protecting themselves.  Daniels did improve at getting out of harms way in the 2nd half of his college season

[CapsSkins]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I'd make my boy da slide coach a very rich and happy man day 1.

His existence would gain a new and singular purpose, hunting the most dangerous game of all.

 

 

Zombie & @Skinsinparadise, it's not just about sliding on those runs (although that's what RG3 was superlatively bad at and Jayden is reckless himself).

 

It's what happens when Aidan Hutchinson or Myles Garrett or Maxx Crosby burst through the OL and get a free shot at the QB. When Jayden scrambles to buy time but he's got a LB or a SS coming downhill at him like a missile.

 

Are we really supposed to believe a 200 lb QB can last taking that kind of damage? I'm a total amateur so god knows what the sports science guys/gals would say, but I feel like there's no way someone with that build can last in the league.

 

I'm much shorter than Jayden and not an elite athlete by any means but our body types / builds look pretty similar and I find that insane. Lol

 

Edited March 21 by CapsSkins

[Going Commando]

46 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Penix would be perfect for Dallas honestly. Good OL so lack of mobility wont kill him. He’ll probably give you like 75% of Dak for 10% of the cost. Advanced age doesn’t hurt because theyre in win now mode.

 

Nobody is beating out Dak for that starting job, and I'd be shocked if they moved on from him.  I don't think Penix needs a great OL to thrive, lack of running ability isn't the same as lack of ability to buy time in the pocket and avoid the rush.  IMO Penix is elite at reading pressure and moving around and resetting while keeping his eyes down field and his throwing lanes open.  I don't think he needs a great OL, and any team that has explosive downfield weapons and an open starting job is a good fit for him.

 

Minnesota is who makes the most sense for him IMO, but Denver would work too.  Las Vegas is a good destination as well, but if he makes it past their pick at 13, then he could tumble really far on draft day.  Nobody else between them and the next Minnesota pick in the 20s has a job opening at QB.

 

If Minny takes JJ McCarthy, then I think there is a decent chance the Raiders could get Penix at 44, because nobody else is going to draft him between 13 and 44.  The Giants don't have their second round pick because of the Burns trade.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Zombie & @Skinsinparadise, it's not just about sliding on those runs (although that's what RG3 was superlatively bad at and Jayden is reckless himself).

 

It's what happens when Aidan Hutchinson or Myles Garrett or Maxx Crosby burst through the OL and get a free shot at the QB. When Jayden scrambles to buy time but he's got a LB or a SS coming downhill at him like a missile.

 

Are we really supposed to believe a 200 lb QB can last taking that kind of damage? I'm a total amateur so god knows what the sports science guys/gals would say, but I feel like there's no way someone with that build can last in the league.

 

I'm much shorter than Jayden and not an elite athlete by any means but our body types / builds look pretty similar and I find that insane. Lol

 

 

Don't get me wrong i don't dismiss that as an issue.  It's a real concern for me.    RG3 though was already part broken physically before he got to the pros which is also why I get the red flags about Penix.  I'd like to see Daniels gain some weight-muscle.

 

It's though one of a series of reasons of why I prefer Maye.

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

If Minny takes JJ McCarthy, then I think there is a decent chance the Raiders could get Penix at 44, because nobody else is going to draft him between 13 and 44.  The Giants don't have their second round pick because of the Burns trade.

 

I thought the Giants had two 2nd rounders and now just one.

Edited March 21 by Skinsinparadise

[redskinss]

 

I love the chemistry between moss, Paulson and Smoot, these podcasts are so fun to watch, the first couple minutes of this one had me rolling.

Anyway the end of this one they discuss what we should do with the number two pick and to my surprise they all either hinted at or came out and Said we should consider trading back for more picks which was pretty surprising to me because I disagree with them and I both value their opinions and usually agree with them.

 

 

 

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't get me wrong i don't dismiss that as an issue.  It's a real concern for me.    RG3 though was already part broken physically before he got to the pros which is also why I get the red flags about Penix.  I'd like to see Daniels gain some weight-muscle.

 

I remember people screenshotting RG3 in a Subway ad where he jumped on screen and zooming in on the pronation of his knees to basically say he was structurally ****ed. Lmao

 

In retrospect, RGKnee was always a ticking time bomb. Jayden has a clean medical history which is good, but there is higher risk across the board... not just ACL but concussion, ribs, shoulder, etc. In any case, the staff will do their examinations and have their perspective. We hired a good sport science guy and Shen's team can run analytics on QB injuries at various heights/weights. I'm also wondering if the medicals include things like bone density and body fat percentage, which may be useful signals.

 

I just happen to be traits-pilled and prefer Maye for that reason (I know you do, too). Give me Big Ben with more mobility and less sexual assault.

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I thought the Giants had two 2nd rounders and now just one.

 

Their second round 2 pick is at 47.  They got that one from Seattle in the Leonard Williams trade.

 

Unless Denver picks him with their first rounder, I think Penix's most likely slot will either be Minny at 23, or Vegas at 44.  But if I were Minnesota, I wouldn't want to sweat out him making it past Denver and Vegas at 12 and 13, and I would probably just pick him at 11.  They don't seem interested in him though, given how hard they are trying to trade up for Maye.

[FootballZombie]

5 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

I'm also wondering if the medicals include things like bone density and body fat percentage, which may be useful signals.

 

Not to slander or shame the dude but Adam Peters is a cartilage guy..... Allegedly

 

Edited March 21 by FootballZombie

[CommanderInTheRye]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

You're vastly overrating how much teams will fear Daniels. He's not going to be the run threat Jackson is. He's closer to Bustin Fields.

 

 

Fair take, and I have to concede that you certainly might be right.

 

If you are, I sure hope we draft another player. 😊

 

Let's revisit this question next off season, regardless of who Daniels ends up playing for, when we'll have a full year's worth of actual data, rather than just speculation, to evaluate.

 

In the meantime we'll both maintain our respectfully divergent predictions. 

 

The one thing I think we both can agree on is that no matter who our braintrust actually chooses, we both hope they choose wisely and get it right.

 

 

 

[ILikeBilly2]

4 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

I had come in here today thinking that overnight I had flipped from leaning slightly towards Daniels to leaning slightly towards Maye; largely because Maye just seems like the safer long term option.

 

Then I watched this video and in my gut I just knew what I would do, if I were the one making the call (and yes, luckily for all of us, I'm not- lol).

 

I'm rolling the dice on the guy that puts fear in the heart of a defense.

 

The guy that forces a defensive coordinator to come up with a special game plan to deal with this two way assassin in cleats.

 

The guy that makes every down 11 on 11, because the qb MUST be accounted for or he will gash you and take over the game.

 

The guy who has improved some aspect of his game every single year.

 

The guy that is absolutely, as DQ himself admitted-- a "game changer".

 

Yes, he occasionally takes crazy, ridiculous, foolish, and unnecessary risks. 

 

Risks that he will not survive in the NFL.

 

But life itself is a risky endeavor, and no choice we make is without risk.

 

I believe that our coaches can impress upon Jayden the importance of self protection,  and teach him to slide, or run out of bounds, like a young Russel Wilson.

 

If that can't be done-- I made the wrong decision.

 

Bottom line, as of this morning, he's the guy I'm going with.

 

For me the upside is worth the risk.

 

I know the majority of the forum disagrees with this, but that's where I'm planting my flag (for the moment at least-lol).

 

As always, I support whoever Peters, Quinn, and Harris choose.

 

I don't envy them in this task.

 

The hopes and dreams of an entire fan base is in the balance.

 

 

I just don't see it.  There is NOTHING special in those highlights.  The only time he throws into tight coverage, it is a deep, over the shoulder type throw.  Those are low risk, just chuck it long throws.  All the other throws, his guy has 2 or more yards of separation.  In other words, those throws are nothing special and something he won't often see in the NFL.  His runs are nice, but several seemed to be 1st read not open, so take off running types of plays.  Those should be counted against him as he is evaluated for the NFL.  

 

I will root for who we pick, but will be shell shocked if GMAP  picks JD.

[ExoDus84]

I'm certainly no NFL scout, but Daniels doesn't look the part to my eyes. Fast release, and has decent straight line speed, but there are a lot of areas of concern. The RG3-clone takes might be overblown, but it's hard to not see the similarities. Fast, but not necessarily agile or shifty. Slight frame that'll get beaten into submission quickly, and can't protect himself if his life depended on it. He seems to look at his first read, and if it's not there, take off running. He thrived with a loaded LSU roster, but only had 1 good year of production.

 

I just don't get the hype really. I'll trust AP's decision making in whatever they decide to do, but Maye/Williams as a prospect seem far above Daniels to me.

 

 

Edited March 21 by ExoDus84

[Dah-Dee]

Sorry if this has already been posted/linked here, pretty neat Breer article on Maye that I hadn't seen yet:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/03/04/mmqb-drake-maye-unc-combine-qb-competitive

 

Drake Maye Was His Authentic Self at the 2024 NFL Combine—and the NFL Liked It

No quarterback helped themselves more in Indianapolis than the UNC star, who showed teams across the league his competitive nature even without on-field work.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

[CommanderInTheRye]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Regarding Daniel’s, it’s not just the speed and strength of NFL defenders compared to college. It’s also a 17 game season plus the playoffs. That’s a lot of cumulative wear for a runner. 

 

 

Good insight. 

 

That's a very serious concern.

 

Especially since any team that drafts Daniels needs to be fully invested and design an offense that will take full advantage of his running ability.

 

One thing he must do if he's going to be successful is protect himself better. That's a given.

 

But as you aptly stated "cumulative wear" is a potential concern and one that can't be summarily dismissed.

 

It's been said before and I agree that in some ways Daniels reminds me of Randall Cunningham-- that big tall kind of gawky, and wiry, non-football player physique. Cunningham had a weird frame but he could consistently handle punishment. Perhaps Daniels can too.

 

Some players are just naturally more injury prone than others. I'd put RG3 who came into the league with a history of knee injuries requiring surgery in that category.

 

On the other hand I wouldn't put Randall Cunningham, despite his build, in the injury prone player category.

 

I believe Daniels has played somewhere around 55 games in his college career. 

 

For a running qb that's quite a lot of hits and pounding that he's taken. It's surely enough to determine if he's in that injury prone category.

 

Does anyone know how many games Daniels actually missed due to injury over his career?

 

Has he had any injuries requiring surgery?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21 by CommanderInTheRye

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't get me wrong i don't dismiss that as an issue.  It's a real concern for me.    RG3 though was already part broken physically before he got there.  I'd like to see Daniels gain some weight-muscle.

Daniels is not a young rookie. He played 5 years of ball at two major schools with strong nutrition and sports science programs. He’s not going to be much bigger than he is now. He is who he is. 
 

If the reports are true that Adam Peters told Daniels he’s only a 5th round talent and his skills don’t translate well into the NFL when he was previously deciding to declare for the NFL, then by what logic has Peters had such a profound shift in his evaluation that he would take 2nd overall the guy he had as 5th rounder in his first and most important draft decision as a GM? 
 

If the pick is Maye and he busts and Daniels does well elsewhere, people will give Peters a pass for the most part in my opinion. If he chooses Daniels and he busts and Maye becomes a franchise QB elsewhere, it will forever undermine Peters’ credibility as a GM. Reaching for a guy and missing is far different than missing on a consensus blue chip talent. 

 

[Dah-Dee]

19 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Does anyone know how many games Daniels actually missed due to injury over his career?

 

Has he had any injuries requiring surgery?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He missed one game while at ASU, freshman year due to twisted ankle. He missed no games due to injury at LSU.

 

Never had surgery for injury.

 

Fun probably irrelevant fact: Randall Cunningham played at 6'4", 212, basically same size as Daniels. I don't think anyone will confuse Daniels' arm talent for the whippy cannon Cunningham had, though:

 

https://www.facebook.com/NFLonFOX/videos/randall-cunninghams-arm-strength-for-the-eagles-was-no-joke/381204309484356/

 

Fun completely irrelevant fact: He actually graduated from ASU and has been working on his master's degree at LSU.

 

Edited March 21 by Dah-Dee

[SoCalSkins]

6 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

Fun completely irrelevant fact: He actually graduated from ASU and has been working on his master's degree at LSU.

 

[illone]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For me, I want a QB that can take the team to the playoffs consistently.  High ceiling.  And i think both Maye and Daniels fits that better than McCarthy. 

 

I am not looking for the next Tannehill.  I want the next Herbert or Lamar Jackson.   

 

 

Maye lost his final 4 games in his first year as starter.

 

Maye lost to Clemson twice, AND Nc State twice. (two of the better defenses in the ACC)

 

Maye never went to the playoffs, and lost his only bowl game he appeared in vs Oregon in '22.

 

What makes you think he is more suited to be a consistent playoff guy over JJ who has won state championships in high school, went to the playoffs twice in college, and won the Naty?

 

Also, Herbert and Lamar are not consistent playoff performers either, so I think you might be setting the bar too low here.

 

If you want Herbert or Lamar Jackson, we are not the same.  I want Mahomes, Brady, Montana type QB. Leaders among men who dont choke in big moments.

 

I will be very interested to see what Harbaugh can do with Herbert. If he turns him into JJ McCarthy then I'd expect consistent playoffs every year. You know, just like he already did with JJ two years in a row.  If he drops back and throws it 50x per game, then I'd expect more of the same.  No playoffs, but hey he sure can throw a beautiful spiral. 

 

Herbert tends to crumble in crunch time with the game on the line. He is a borderline choke artist. One could easily blame coaching and system on that, hence why I am eager to see him in more of a run first system w Harbs. But up to this point, what exactly has Herbert done to prove to you that he is a consistent playoff guy?

 

The trap in this draft is falling in love with the consensus top picks and thinking you HAVE to take a chance on those guys. Just because everyone thinks Daniels and Maye are better prospects does NOT mean you HAVE to make the selection.  That's like saying "We have to take Zach Wilson because he is slotted at #2". You have to do your own due diligence, and if that diligence leads you off the pick then you have to make a tough decision and pass on the risky player.

 

JJ is the safer pick. JJ is the proven winner. JJ is the guy you can trust with the ball in his hands in the 4th qtr when you are down 10 and need to make a play.  

 

I get that JJ doesnt have the same VOLUME of pass plays as the other guys, but look at what he did when the game was on the line. He delivered clutch throws, first downs, and wins. 

 

JJ is the guy with clutch performances, 4th qtr comebacks, and consistent winning pedigree over his entire football career.

 

What has Maye done?  What has Daniels done? How many times do we need to see Heisman trophy winners and big arm prototype QBs tear it up in college only to flop in the NFL?

 

Neither of these top consensus guys have proven they can win on the big stage when it matters most. 

 

Not saying neither of those guys cant, just that they havent... not yet anyways.

 

JJ is a proven winner. At every stage of his career. If you are like me and you want a Brady, Montana, Mahomes type leader, then JJ is the pick. I dont care if the entire world thinks he is a reach at 2. It doesnt appear he will get past 4 anyways, or 5 depending on how far up the vikings are able to jump, so is it really a huge reach?

But to suggest that with Maye and Daniels you are getting consistent playoffs when they havent proven it is a bit of wishful hoping, dont you think?

 

[kingdaddy]

36 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

If the reports are true that Adam Peters told Daniels he’s only a 5th round talent and his skills don’t translate well into the NFL when he was previously deciding to declare for the NFL, then by what logic has Peters had such a profound shift in his evaluation that he would take 2nd overall the guy he had as 5th rounder in his first and most important draft decision as a GM? 

Good logic here......

[The Consigliere]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If the Patriots brass were smart, the way they'd play is the way anyone of us would play it:

Look at the '4 class they have Access to:

1 of Daniels/May

JJ

Penix

Nix

 

'25 class:

Beck

Ewers

Weigman

Sanders

Ward

Milroe

Allar

Dart

etc

 

 

Now how would you rank these guys RIGHT NOW, if you think that there isn't a tangible difference between the two groups, sure, trade down, if you rate Maye and Daniels ahead, period, you have to take them, if you only rate 1 of them ahead of the rest, and that guy goes, again, trade down.

 

Patriots brass just need to understand:

Their defense is TOO good, and Brissett is to moderate of a floor of a performer, for the Patriots to lose 14 or 15 games next year, so they probably aren't picking top 3 again. The team had to really, really underperform in '23 to finish 30th in the league. My guess is that next year, unless their QB is a grand slam this year, they probably win 5 or 6 games next year, ceiling of 7, and pick 5-12. The '16 crappy QB push up effect will probably still be in play. Ward could blow up next year, same with Sanders, Ewers is pretty limited it seems like, maybe some of the others like Beck climb up, but they have to decide, is the 2nd or 3rd best QB in '25, worth trading down/out for? Is Penix or Nix moving down for?

 

For me, if Maye is gone, I would trade down at this point because Im flat out too concerned about Daniels bust potential at 3. I'd rather pair Penix ready now potential, with that defense and roll, or simply trade down and out, suck next year and try again then. Originally I thought it was kind of insane, but the more I look at Daniels, the more I get worried, if Maye was there, you definitely stay at 3, but if he's gone, I'd be super tempted to move down. I kinda like Penix more as a value guy who I think may actually be a more complete passer (in terms of anticipation, using the full field, pressure to sack ratio etc). 

[illone]

40 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

If the reports are true that Adam Peters told Daniels he’s only a 5th round talent and his skills don’t translate well into the NFL when he was previously deciding to declare for the NFL, then by what logic has Peters had such a profound shift in his evaluation that he would take 2nd overall the guy he had as 5th rounder in his first and most important draft decision as a GM? 

 

 

Daniels is the odds on Vegas favorite to be the pick at #2 🤣

 

I wonder what the handle is on that bet... Some bookmaker chuckled when setting that line.

[Conn]

2 hours ago, srtman04 said:

I really, really, REALLY hope all this JJ McCarthy talk for us is just one huge smokescreen.    One thing about Adam Peters I can say for sure to this point....the man plays Chess,  not checkers.   I have a feeling we won't really know who he's going to take until it's announced at the podium on draft day.  

There’s no need for a smokescreen, we are in control of the draft once you take Caleb Williams out of the equation going at 1 (which has been the known outcome for literally years). We can take whoever we want, no need to smokescreen. People are just making **** up because nobody knows, we are airtight. No leaks. 

[The Consigliere]

43 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Daniels is not a young rookie. He played 5 years of ball at two major schools with strong nutrition and sports science programs. He’s not going to be much bigger than he is now. He is who he is. 
 

If the reports are true that Adam Peters told Daniels he’s only a 5th round talent and his skills don’t translate well into the NFL when he was previously deciding to declare for the NFL, then by what logic has Peters had such a profound shift in his evaluation that he would take 2nd overall the guy he had as 5th rounder in his first and most important draft decision as a GM? 
 

If the pick is Maye and he busts and Daniels does well elsewhere, people will give Peters a pass for the most part in my opinion. If he chooses Daniels and he busts and Maye becomes a franchise QB elsewhere, it will forever undermine Peters’ credibility as a GM. Reaching for a guy and missing is far different than missing on a consensus blue chip talent. 

 

This is true in a rational sense, but nobody ever actually behaves intellectually honestly in this fashion. Fans should delineate the difference between drafting a bust, when you leave the herd, and are idiots, the Raiders with Heyward-Bey, Clelin Ferrell and Ruggs come to mind, but I rarely if ever see people intellectually honest enough to own that "everyone missed on say RGIII in 2012 or Tim Couch, or Ryan Leaf, and Charlie Rogers, etc. Teams just make fun of those dolts, taking Trent Richardson, or Sam Bradford etc despite the league as a whole, having those guys at the top of the class. It would be nice if there was intellectual honesty, but there just isn't. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

19 minutes ago, illone said:

The trap in this draft is falling in love with the consensus top picks and thinking you HAVE to take a chance on those guys. Just because everyone thinks Daniels and Maye are better prospects does NOT mean you HAVE to make the selection. ...You have to do your own due diligence, and if that diligence leads you off the pick then you have to make a tough decision and pass on the risky playe

 

 

Absolutely true!

 

Don't agree with some of your other conclusions, but advocating for independent reasoning even when doing so means that you must row against a powerful tide, on its own, earns you a trophy emoji.