The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mac8887]

39 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

This is me being repetitive now. 😛

 

I seem to be one of the many here who place Williams at 1 like 98% of world of "professional" punditry and likewise have Maye and Daniels as the next two, with Maye being my preference. This hasn't changed since I started on it weeks ago but it did get a little more nuanced with respect to Daniels  after I digested more interviews and weeks of opinions in media and watched the various online videos. At no time though have I moved on my preference.

 

Also like most here, I will be excited and hopeful with Daniels if the fo wants him over Maye.

 

A subjective, but interesting  to me 🤓 side note, which has nothing to do with either guy football wise or otherwise, is Daniels being the recipient of what I'd call some persistent "fanboy" type support or "lobbying" energy which I don't see happening with Maye.

 

I know it's an unflattering label but I think it's reasonable and I only apply it to a small number. Maybe it's Daniels being the more "flashy" player in an era where "dual threat" QBs and the excitement they bring to "busted" plays creates a lot of buzz.

 

This is me being relative now. 😛

 

I seem to be one of the many here who place Williams at 1 like 98% of world of "professional" punditry and likewise have Maye and Daniels as the next two, with Maye being my preference. This hasn't changed since I started on it weeks ago but it did get a little more nuanced with respect to Daniels  after I digested more interviews and weeks of opinions in media and watched the various online videos. At no time though have I moved on my preference.

 

Also like most here, I will be excited and hopeful with Daniels if the fo wants him over Maye.

 

A subjective, but interesting  to me 🤓 side note, which has nothing to do with either guy football wise or otherwise, is Daniels being the recipient of what I'd call some persistent "fanboy" type support or "lobbying" energy which I don't see happening with Maye.

 

I know it's an unflattering label but I think it's reasonable and I only apply it to a small number. Maybe it's Daniels being the more "flashy" player in an era where "dual threat" QBs and the excitement they bring to "busted" plays creates a lot of buzz.

 

I agree with that and think him being a Heisman award winner has a lot to do with it. He has been hyped to the moon since the beginning of the second half of the season, though after that ridiculous season he just had, I think the hype may be warranted.

[Jumbo]

15 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I agree here. I attribute the Daniels "fanboy" passionate energy to a few factors: 1) a more electric/flashy play style as you mention, 2) a higher profile SEC program and the baked in awareness/support, and 3) a Tailgate-appropriate non-football-related factor (not opining one way or the other as to the merits there, just a personal observation).

 

And for all my personal anxiety over his body type, I do think he seems like a great guy, hard worker, etc. and have nothing against him personally. If we were picking 3, he'd be my choice in a heartbeat over McCarthy (I'm unimpressed) or Penix (who himself I'd rank higher if he didn't have the medical history).

 

The best part about this period, though, is that I genuinely believe in FO's ability to evaluate these guys and make the right choice, which is quite the opposite of years past. 

 

  

 

Agree with everything. This is a f.o. I have more rational trust in than any since the 80's era.

[Conn]

9 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

The reports seem very plausible. Daniels was roommates with Aiyuk at ASU and likely wanted an unvarnished opinion on his NFL chances before giving up eligibility. Peters wasn’t an agent making Daniels financial promises. He was giving Daniels his option as a favor to Aiyuk.  These conversations are common for players making these decisions. It’s not a major violation for the NFL team, it would technically be a violation of NCAA rules but it’s enforced less often than conversations between agents and teams before the legal  free agency tampering period.

 

The NFL does this already for all draft-eligible players, gathering thoughts from FO personnel around the league for an early, conservative grade. They wouldn’t need to specifically ask Peters. It’s likely made up entirely.

 

9 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Happens all the time. 

When? Name a time that an NFL FO Executive has been documented to have contacted an undeclared underclassman outside the structure of the scouting process. 

Edited March 21 by Conn

[mac8887]

28 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

My main question wasn’t about your preference and who you have posted about. It was regarding the reports, if true that Adam Peters as a favor to Auyuk had a conversation with Daniels who was considering declaring for the draft previously and Peters told him he is at best a 5th round talent and his skills don’t translate well to the NFL.
 

How can Peters go from a 5th round evaluation of a player all the way up to the second overall pick in the draft. The first pick he is ever making as a GM and to actually select that player he previously had such a dismal view of? I don’t see how it’s possible. Yet many think it’s a coin flip for Peters between Maye and Daniels. I don’t buy it if these reports are true.

It’s pretty simple, 40 tds to 4 ints, 72% completion percentage, over 1000 yds rushing and another 10 rushing tds added to that, doing it in the SEC, the conference with the best talent pool to play against as well as the best coaching staffs in college football. 

[Skinsinparadise]

[The Consigliere]

When was it? Was it back when he was at ASU? The reports I've heard have always suggested he was viewed as a later day 2 pick, even after his very good '22. Wouldn't shock me at all if Peters view was he was a day 3 guy back in '21 or '20 or whatever. 

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, Conn said:

 

The NFL does this for draft-eligible players, gathering thoughts from FO personnel around the league for an early, conservative grade. They wouldn’t need to specifically ask Peters. It’s likely made up entirely.

 

When? Name a time that an NFL FO executive has been documented to have contacted an undeclared underclassman outside the structure of the scouting process. 

It would never be documented just like conversations between agents and team executives regarding players under contract take place all the time at the senior bowl, scouting combine and other meetings well in advance of the legal tampering period and are never documented. Some rules simply are not enforced unless egregiously obvious violations are made.
 

Let’s pretend you and I were elite college athletes and friends and roommates at the same college and I went to the NFL a couple of years before you. You started contemplating coming out early for the NFL but weren’t sure where you would go because you were getting mixed messages. If I told you hey I can put you in touch with the assistant GM on my team off the record and he’s a great talent evaluator and fair guy and will give you a tough but honest opinion, you would probably jump at it.

[DogofWar1]

I love when I'm watching mocks and people are like "I'm mocking X to Washington bc it seems like they might be leaning in that direction bc of [insert random thing that is just tealeaves reading]."

 

It's like, guys, no one outside of the building knows ANYTHING with the sole exception of MAYBE John Keim, who doesn't know everything but MIGHT know SOMEthing.  But not enough to know who they're picking, only enough to tell people to stop taking narratives too far in either direction.

[SoCalSkins]

13 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

It’s pretty simple, 40 tds to 4 ints, 72% completion percentage, over 1000 yds rushing and another 10 rushing tds added to that, doing it in the SEC, the conference with the best talent pool to play against as well as the best coaching staffs in college football. 

Other than Burrow who has had NFL success as a qb from the SEC? 

Cam Newton? The Mannings? 
 

 

[mac8887]

5 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Other than Burrow who has had NFL success as a qb from the SEC? 

Cam Newton? The Mannings? 
 

 

Dak, Stafford and Tua are high end starters in the league right now.  Hurtz has done pretty well for himself as well.

Edited March 21 by mac8887

[Dah-Dee]

5 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Other than Burrow who has had NFL success as a qb from the SEC? 

Cam Newton? The Mannings? 
 

 

 

 

Come on man. This article is 8 years old, so leaves out some recent hits, but:

 

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/10-best-nfl-qbs-from-sec-schools/

Edited March 21 by Dah-Dee

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

I love when I'm watching mocks and people are like "I'm mocking X to Washington bc it seems like they might be leaning in that direction bc of [insert random thing that is just tealeaves reading]."

 

It's like, guys, no one outside of the building knows ANYTHING with the sole exception of MAYBE John Keim, who doesn't know everything but MIGHT know SOMEthing.  But not enough to know who they're picking, only enough to tell people to stop taking narratives too far in either direction.

 

I get the vibe that Keim basically knows two things

 

A.   Broad brushes -- some of their philosophy.

B.  What other teams-agents are hearing about this team.

 

Listening to him he clearly has sources with the team where he can say stuff like Quinn's interviews went really well and he's a serious contender.  and Ben Johnson isn't a lock.  He said it well before Schefter.   He also had some of their FA targets right.

 

But I don't think he knows nearly as much as he once did.  It's a tight ship as for leaks.  But more in point, he among others who cover the team say this FO doesn't make rash emotional decisions but ponder and ponder and ponder so on an issue like what QB they are taking they are likely still digesting

 

 

Edited March 21 by Skinsinparadise

[SoCalSkins]

11 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Dak, Stafford and Tua are high end starters in the league right now.  Hurtz has done pretty well for himself as well.

That’s a laughable list compared to your notion of such SEC supremacy at the QB position that Jayden Daniels stock should rise because that’s where he spent his final 2 years.

Also, you can’t claim Hurtz if you are claiming Burrow. Hurtz was Big 12 guy. Otherwise Burrow is a Big 10 product. 
 

 

Edited March 21 by SoCalSkins

[DiscoBob]

34 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

  

 

Agree with everything. This is a f.o. I have more rational trust in than any since the 80's era.

 

What I will be interested to see is whether or not folks around here will be able to overlook some missteps (EVERY front office has them - see Trey Lance), or are they too traumatized by the Vinny / Brucifer / Snyder / Riverboat debacle.

 

They will deserve criticism for bad moves, but will we "stay medium" for a reasonable amount of time?  

 

None of this to say I don't believe they will be successful, I'm just realistic enough to believe it's not going to be a never ending string of wins.

[mac8887]

16 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

That’s a laughable list compared to your notion of such SEC supremacy at the QB position that Jayden Daniels stock should rise because that’s where he spent his final 2 years.

Also, you can’t claim Hurtz if you are claiming Burrow. Hurtz was Big 12 guy. Otherwise Burrow is a Big 10 product. 
 

 

I never claimed sec qb supremacy, I claimed SEC talent pool and coaching staff supremacy, and I never even mentioned Burrow.

 

Jaydens stock should rise because he had one of the best seasons in college football history added to the fact that he has become an amazing decision maker throwing the football, and has vastly improved the time he needs to get through his progressions.

 

An accurate passer that is a great decision maker throwing the ball, that can get through his reads fast usually equals a really good QB.

Edited March 21 by mac8887

[mistertim]

31 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Dak, Stafford and Tua are high end starters in the league right now.  Hurtz has done pretty well for himself as well.

 

Bryce Young and Mac Jones put up gaudy stats in the SEC and are certainly lighting it up in the NFL.

Edited March 21 by mistertim

[SkinsFTW]

53 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

It’s pretty simple, 40 tds to 4 ints, 72% completion percentage

 

 

You have me convinced!

 

Umm, except Haskins had even better college stats and he was never going to make it in the NFL either.

Edited March 21 by SkinsFTW

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, mac8887 said:

I never claimed sec qb supremacy, I claimed SEC talent pool and coaching staff supremacy, and I never even mentioned Burrow.

 

Jaydens stock should rise because he had one of the best seasons in college football history added to the fact that he has become an amazing decision maker throwing the football, and has vastly improved the time he needs to get through his progressions.

 

An accurate passer that is a great decision maker throwing the ball, that can get through his reads fast usually equals a really good QBs. 

He’s a 1 year wonder surrounded by great talent. He is also mainly a 1read qb who is vastly undersized and takes massive hits and looks to use his feet more than his arm.
 

He was too scared to even get measured at the combine and left early. The guy is as a likely bust as there is. I can’t say for certain if Caleb and Maye are busts and they very well could be, but Daniels nearly certainly is. 
 

If we do draft him I will give Peters and DQ the benefit of the doubt but it’s the last outcome I want to see in the draft. I have seen him play in person and my seats for UCLA are front row at the Rose Bowl on the 5.  The guy is tiny for his height. Like you do a double take at his proportions. His head in a helmet is much bigger than his body. He is an electric player for a college kid and he won the game I was at but he seems like a good college player not the second pick in the NFL draft. 

[mac8887]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

Bryce Young and Mac Jones out up gaudy stats in the SEC are certainly lighting it up in the NFL.

Certainly not the kind of year Daniels just had. Bryce has only played 1 year, it’s too early to write him off. Mac Jones should’ve never been drafted as high as he was.

[SkinsFTW]

3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

He’s a 1 year wonder surrounded by great talent. He is also mainly a 1read qb who is vastly undersized and takes massive hits and looks to use his feet more than his arm.
 

He was too scared to even get measured at the combine and left early. The guy is as a likely bust as there is. I can’t say for certain if Caleb and Maye are busts and they very well could be, but Daniels nearly certainly is. 
 

If we do draft him I will give Peters and DQ the benefit of the doubt but it’s the last outcome I want to see in the draft. I have seen him play in person and my seats for UCLA are front row at the Rose Bowl on the 5.  The guy is tiny for his height. Like you do a double take at his proportions. His head in a helmet is much bigger than his body. He is an electric player for a college kid and he won the game I was at but he seems like a good college player not the second pick in the NFL draft. 

 

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, SoCalSkins said:

He’s a 1 year wonder surrounded by great talent. He is also mainly a 1read qb who is vastly undersized and takes massive hits and looks to use his feet more than his arm.
 

He was too scared to even get measured at the combine and left early. The guy is as a likely bust as there is. I can’t say for certain if Caleb and Maye are busts and they very well could be, but Daniels nearly certainly is. 
 

If we do draft him I will give Peters and DQ the benefit of the doubt but it’s the last outcome I want to see in the draft. I have seen him play in person and my seats for UCLA are front row at the Rose Bowl on the 5.  The guy is tiny for his height. Like you do a double take at his proportions. His head in a helmet is much bigger than his body. He is an electric player for a college kid and he won the game I was at but he seems like a good college player not the second pick in the NFL draft. 

Where do you get this 1 read stuff about him. It’s just not true. Watch the Warner review of Jayden’s game vs ole miss. He constantly and consistently goes though his reads and finds the open man.

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Certainly not the kind of year Daniels just had. Bryce has only played 1 year, it’s too early to write him off. Mac Jones should’ve never been drafted as high as he was.

 

Jones had a better breakout year than Daniels. 41TDs, 4INTs, 77.4% completion.

 

And sure, it may be too early to write off Bryce, but by most advanced metrics he had one of the single worst rookie years ever.

[illone]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

 

I know you weren't but your argument was, that was my point.

 

Instead of telling us that maye and daniels have never won anything and mcarthy has won championships at every level, explain why mcarthy is going to be a better quarterback at the nfl level because of the traits he possesses over the other two that translate.

 

 

I did some of that in my longer post a page back, but just to recap:

 

Clutch throws with the game on the line

4th qtr comeback wins

Performance on 3rd down

 

Some numbers to back up the case:

63.5% completion percentage under pressure

67.1% completion percentage on 3rd down (0 ints)

87.5% completion % 4th down (0 ints)

9.5 yards per attempt under pressure

16.8% pressure to sack rate 

80% adjusted completion percentage

 

*Im seeing if I can find middle of the field percentage because eyeball test McCarthy is great over the middle, Jayden didnt use the middle of the field at ALL unless he was running, and Maye by all accounts also used the middle, but when I have more time I'll pull up those numbers.

 

To add to it - 

Intangibles:

Great leader

Positive attitude

Football IQ

Toughness (could argue Jayden is tough, but I worry it wont translate to the next level due to size and other issues previously raised)

 

Drake Maye is your typical prototype when it comes to size, arm strength etc. But when you watch him play against tougher competition, pressure, etc, he folds.  Happened to him twice vs Clemson, and twice vs NC State, basically his two nemesis in school.  In 22 he had a chance to make the playoffs and Georgia Tech knocked UNC out of the running. Then when I watch him speak he has this little nervous tick that I cant figure out. He rolls his shoulders up and back a little, and you cant unsee it once you see it. He doesnt seem comfortable in his own skin yet.  Could be an age thing, or just a weird habit when dealing with the media. He could be very different behind the scenes as a player and leader. But with JJ he just seems calm cool and collected when I've listened to him post game and during the draft process. There is this calm confidence about him that I dont see with the other QBs in this draft. Actually, Caleb has it too, but I am leaving him out of the comparison. 

 

I dont fault anyone for liking Maye at all. He checks all the boxes you would want in a franchise QB, I just worry about the intangibles, consistency, and poise under pressure. He could absolutely become all of those things, he just hasnt shown it while JJ has. To me that is a huge risk when you have such a valuable pick this high in the draft.  For me Im selecting the proven winner, the calm cool collected winner, and the guy with upside pedigree that has already been coached by an NFL legend.

 

 

[mac8887]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Jones had a better breakout year than Daniels. 41TDs, 4INTs, 77.4% completion.

 

And sure, it may be too early to write off Bryce, but by most advanced metrics he had one of the single worst rookie years ever.

Yep Mac Jones stinks and Bryce young stunk last year.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:

It would never be documented just like conversations between agents and team executives regarding players under contract take place all the time at the senior bowl, scouting combine and other meetings well in advance of the legal tampering period and are never documented. Some rules simply are not enforced unless egregiously obvious violations are made.
 

Let’s pretend you and I were elite college athletes and friends and roommates at the same college and I went to the NFL a couple of years before you. You started contemplating coming out early for the NFL but weren’t sure where you would go because you were getting mixed messages. If I told you hey I can put you in touch with the assistant GM on my team off the record and he’s a great talent evaluator and fair guy and will give you a tough but honest opinion, you would probably jump at it.

So when you dismissively said “happens all the time” you were just making **** up. Makes sense 

Edited March 21 by Conn