The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Command The 414 said:

I'm so glad you bring that up cause so many people only see the final stats and run with it, and/or only see game highlights and form a opinion off of that, i always say, stats are so misleading and actually are for losers attempting to justify their opinion, this board has been overrun with the opinion on Maye from the UVA game it's not even funny, I believe the majoirty have seen it mentioned so many times thy themselves are using it as a opinion of their own now.  

That might be my fault, at least partially, because I broke down every play in the game in a massively long post a few weeks ago and reference that breakdown a lot 

[Conn]

47 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

That's a ****ing on the money laser. 

 

I would be so excited if we got a qb who could consistently make plays like that.

Some people have a hard time seeing this and getting excited because he makes it look so easy. It’s why there are a few posters who call him boring. It kind of lulls you how casually he makes these throws, and then when he has a negative play it’s almost like double counting it against him because the “WOW” plays aren’t as obvious to people who can’t pick out a difficult NFL throw. 

Edited March 19 by Conn

[Command The 414]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That might be my fault, at least partially, because I broke down every play in the game in a massively long post a few weeks ago and reference that breakdown a lot 

no I meant using that game solely as their opinion as to why Maye won't be a good NFL QB, the same could be said about Daniels too though where things are said of him as to not being a good NFL QB without doing their homework watching every game etc...trust me I have my favorite as to who I want them to draft, but I'll be the first to say, I don't care enough to watch the needed film, and even if I did I'm not gifted enough to say 1 way or the other as to them being a good NFL QB

Edited March 19 by Command The 414

[FootballZombie]

16 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

I'm worried that we're overlooking serious mechanics/makeup issues because of the WOW plays we see from him. 

 

Maye is like the ultimate example of a house w/ good bones.

 

Sure there is a lot of work that needs to be done. Consistency is a little leaky, decision making runs cold, unfinished mechanics downstairs... but if you fix all that you pretty much have everything you want in a QB.

 

I'm not sure there is a "foundation is rotten" problem with him that can't really get repaired or would scare people away. If a coach looks at him and deems his issues fixable in the same manner, I see the appeal of wanting him. Its why he is a blue chip prospect in my eyes.

[Dah-Dee]

Two of my favorite Maye plays are in this clip, at 1:59 (goes through progressions and hits deep middle in stride with pressure coming in face); and 3:18 (senses backside pressure coming, shifts in pocket and hits 55-yard bomb in stride deep middle - this one is especially impressive to me, because on the replay you can see that he's actually throwing that slightly across his body to the left, while moving to the right, and the pass literally couldn't be more accurate).

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, Conn said:

Some people have a hard time seeing this and getting excited because he makes it look so easy. It kind of lulls you how casually he makes these throws, and then when he has a negative play it’s almost like double counting it against him because the “WOW” plays aren’t as obvious to people who can’t pick out a difficult NFL throw. 

What you said reminds me of this play:

 

Play 26: Play Grade B+.  Completion for 15 yardsp.  Outside receiver just ran an out and Maye put it on him.  NFL throw there.  Easy read.  1:1, off coverage.  Receiver pushed like he was going deep, then broke the route off and the ball was right there.  Absolutely beautiful completion in the timing of the play.  
 

He made this throw look easy.  And it’s not.  But he made it look like taking candy from a baby.  

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on Maye friend, but it's not that wide of a gulf disagreement wise. I've not done any confirmation of the veracity of this statement, but I believe Matt Waldman has expressed the same concerns for what it's worth.

 

 

M Waldman believes talk Drake Maye might drop, and Nix rise

Manhattan : 2/5/2024 9:12 pm

Rookie chatter talk.

Matt Waldman does believe the chatter about Drake Maye possibly dropping. The chatter comes from some evaluators leaking contrary evals. He says in his study he gets Desmond Ridder vibes from Maye. Thinks he is a late first round or 2nd/3rd round QB. Never understood the talk about going #2. Thinks decision-making, accuracy and mechanics are lacking. Great athlete but a bit of Mitchell Trubisky to his game.

Conversely, he likes Bo Nix, and believes he is a riser. Says scheme argument used against Nix is incorrect. The Oregon offense is more varied than is often portrayed. He thinks Nix is accurate, moves around well in the pocket, and makes strong decisions. He is able to create inside and outside structure.

It is linked here and should cue correctly, but if not, this portion of the conversation starts at 26:40.


Feel It Or F@#k It: 2.5.24: An RSP Cast with Bob Harris and Matt Waldman - ( New Window )

So says the guy who had Hakeem Butler ranked ahead of AJ Brown, DK Metcalf and Terry McLaurin in 2019 and has had an absolute litany of other horrible takes the last five years to go with them. 

 

Here's some more: Had Dobbins over Jonathan Taylor in '20

Had Tua over Joe Burrow in '20.

Denzel Mims was his WR2 in '20!!?!?!?! (even I didnt have him that high)

Najee Harris and Trey Sermon were his RB1 and RB2 in '21, I had Etienne #1. 

Rondale Moore was his WR3 in that class too (I loved him too, oh well)

I dont think he even had Howell rated as worth drafting in '22, all the scrubs, all of them rated above Howell.

 

To be fair to the guy, he's nailed a lot of stuff too, he went out on a limb for Chubb in '18 and he was right, but I don't think he's got any magic fairy dust either, he's wrong a ton too, and when he's wrong, because he goes out on a limb, he tends to be wrong really embarrsingly, like with Butler, with Trey Sermon, Tua over Burrow, Denzel Mims as the WR2 in '20 etc. 

Edited March 19 by The Consigliere

[seantaylor=god]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

You are certainly confused, because that trade did not happen 

Haha you’re right 

[Voice_of_Reason]

@zCommander if you want to read my  excessively long breakdowns of Daniels and Maye, here are the links.

 

I did one for McCarthy.  But I don’t remember when and I don’t know an easy way to find it.  It’s buried somewhere before these two.  
 

https://es.redskins.com/topic/448580-the-official-qb-thread-no-howell-no-way-howell-traded-to-the-seahawks-mariota-vs-frommm-battle-for-qb1/?do=findComment&comment=12667448
 

https://es.redskins.com/topic/448580-the-official-qb-thread-no-howell-no-way-howell-traded-to-the-seahawks-mariota-vs-frommm-battle-for-qb1/?do=findComment&comment=12667618

[CommanderInTheRye]

4 hours ago, Conn said:

Some people have a hard time seeing this and getting excited because he makes it look so easy. It’s why there are a few posters who call him boring. It kind of lulls you how casually he makes these throws, and then when he has a negative play it’s almost like double counting it against him because the “WOW” plays aren’t as obvious to people who can’t pick out a difficult NFL throw. 

 

 

Why do you think he's so inconsistent?

 

Is it  a footwork or technique issue that coaching, practice, and attention to detail can possibly correct, or is he just one of those frustrating players that will always struggle with random errant throws?

[zCommander]

Mock draft or subliminal message.... 🤔

 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@zCommander if you want to read my  excessively long breakdowns of Daniels and Maye, here are the links.

 

I did one for McCarthy.  But I don’t remember when and I don’t know an easy way to find it.  It’s buried somewhere before these two.  
 

https://es.redskins.com/topic/448580-the-official-qb-thread-no-howell-no-way-howell-traded-to-the-seahawks-mariota-vs-frommm-battle-for-qb1/?do=findComment&comment=12667448
 

https://es.redskins.com/topic/448580-the-official-qb-thread-no-howell-no-way-howell-traded-to-the-seahawks-mariota-vs-frommm-battle-for-qb1/?do=findComment&comment=12667618

 

 

You weren't kidding when you said they were excessively long. lol

 

I like that you started each review with a "bottom line first" abstract. I was able to  read both of those and they were up to your usual standard. :thumbs up:

 

I'll read the remainder of each article later today. Been fighting insomnia  tonight but I'm going to try to get at least a few hours now.

 

Thanks for taking the time and effort to do such thorough breakdowns.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

Why do you think he's so inconsistent?

 

Is it  a footwork or technique issue that coaching, practice, and attention to detail can possibly correct, or is he just one of those frustrating players that will always struggle with random errant throws?

 

I know you aren't asking me but I'll give me 2 cents anyway.

 

I'll start with he's not really inconsistent.  He's typically good.  But has some inconsistent moments, when?  Mostly when...

 

A.  He believes pressure is in the offing either real or imagined so he rushes his delivery for quick throws in the flat. And he seems very sensitive to throw away from the defender so when he misses he misses by a lot.  

 

Nate Trice, ex-college QB, big Maye guy thinks the misses look more glaring because he's a line drive thrower like Herbert so when you are throwing line drives the misses come off as wider misses

 

B.  Throwing off platform.  He has some amazing throws on this count.  So this is where I'd buy his inconsistency.   Up and down off platform.  When he's down he doesn't readjust his body to the target when on the move.

 

I am not a Qb coach obviously but it comes off fixable to me.  Because the bottom line is he fundamentally can do everything as QB and has every tool.  Strong arm.  Mobility.  Touch.  Can throw on all three levels.  Seems to process well. 

 

Also he's had the trial by fire testing already.   He's not had three Jerry Rice's to throw too with the Hogs blocking for him.  He had the equivalent of the 2023 Commanders O line blocking for him and his receivers were the equivalent of Brian Quick and Terrell Pryor.  

 

In short, watching him in clean pockets his mechanics look fine.  But if the context changes his lower body in particular can get a bit out of whack and that IMO what needs to be fixed.  But i like it that he had Wrs who dropped a ton of passes and rarely bailed him out, and weren't good at seperating and he had trash at his feet all the time.  Good prep for the NFL at a ripe age at 21. 

 

I do like Daniels too but IMO aside from his running he doesn't have Maye's tools and am worried about his adjusting to the pros where he's unlikely going to have the ideal situations he had at LSU.  Also Drake Maye at 21 >>>>>>>> Daniels at 21.  Drake Maye at 21 >>>>>>>> Daniels at 22.  I think Drake Maye at 21 has an edge over Daniels at 23 considering context but its certainly more of a debate. 

 

My point is why does Daniels get the leeway as if his graduation as a player as he got older is just is clicking for him whereas the same dynamic isn't a possibility for other younger QBs?

 

The kicker for me is hearing from multiple reputable reporters that Maye killed it in the interviews.  Yes, the others got some props too but it was hard to miss that Maye got the most.  Daniels from some who know him is considered introverted.  Some say even shy.  Maye is by most counts an extrovert, more vocal.  This isn't the be all and end all for me but its another thing that gives Maye the edge for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2024-nfl-draft-north-carolina-qb-drake-mayes-scouting-report

He’s shown an elite ability to operate in the middle of the field. He had a 94.8 PFF passing grade on throws in between the college hashes, which led all FBS quarterbacks with at least 50 attempts. To be a consistent passer over the middle of the field, quarterbacks need to be on time with their progressions, and Maye can do that at a consistently high level. He knows how to hold underneath defenders with his eyes while throwing the ball right behind them with good anticipation.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

The Bear have loaded up well to their credit. Down to just 4 draft picks but that won’t matter this year.

[Skinsinparadise]

Kiper

 

 

1. Chicago Bears (via CAR)

 

Caleb Williams, QB, USC

The mystery is gone now, right? Justin Fields was sent to the Steelers over the weekend for a conditional Day 3 pick in 2025, which means Chicago's quarterback depth chart looks like this: Tyson Bagent, Brett Rypien. The franchise stayed out of the veteran market in free agency. The Bears are going to take a passer with this pick, and all signs point to it being Williams, my top-ranked prospect.

The good thing for the rookie who takes over? He will have solid playmakers around him on offense. The trade for wideout Keenan Allen was a savvy move by general manager Ryan Poles, and running back signing D'Andre Swift will alleviate pressure on the new signal-caller. Allen and DJ Moore are a really good and versatile receiver duo. Poles & Co. also have some flexibility with the No. 9 overall pick: Will they try to help their defense now?

 

---

2. Washington Commanders

Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

Here's where the intrigue begins. Daniels or Drake Maye ... or is it possible J.J. McCarthy is in play? I don't think anyone has a great handle on which quarterback the Commanders prefer just yet. I have Daniels over Maye in my position rankings -- both are in my top six overall -- and McCarthy is a distant fourth. There's no consensus around the league, though, which makes this pick the pivot point in the draft.

One quarterback we know who won't be involved in Washington is 2023 starter Sam Howell, who was dealt to the Seahawks last week. The Commanders brought in Marcus Mariota to serve as the backup to whichever rookie they select. And like the Bears, they have a good pair of wideouts in Terry McLaurin and Jahan Dotson, though there are questions along the offensive line.

---

3. New England Patriots

Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina

Just like the two teams picking before them, the Patriots traded away their top quarterback from last season, as Mac Jones was sent to Jacksonville last week. New England wouldn't pass up a quarterback here, right? I'm not as confident as I was before free agency began. The Patriots signed Jacoby Brissett to a one-year deal, and he could be the bridge option to a rookie. But then when you look at their other signings, are we sure they're not thinking beyond 2024 already?

What I'm saying is: If a team that fell in love with the third quarterback in this class offered a bevy of draft capital, wouldn't New England have to consider moving down? That would give the organization multiple first-round picks to improve the entire roster, both this year and in 2025. This is not a team likely to compete this season. Las Vegas, Denver, Minnesota could be options. Sliding down a few spots would still allow the Patriots to add a rookie starter at receiver or offensive tackle, both positions which are deep in Round 1.

Right now, I'm sticking with my gut and Maye, who has a really high ceiling if he can clean up a couple of small issues with his mechanics.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39752638/2024-nfl-mock-draft-mel-kiper-updated-quarterback-predictions-32-picks-williams-maye-daniels

[Chump Bailey]

12 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

What are "rabbit ears"?

 

That's a term I first heard by our beloved Coach Gibbs when describing Campbell's flaws. I take it to mean a QB that senses pressure that is not an imminent threat and deviates from the designed play. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

The Bear have loaded up well to their credit. Down to just 4 draft picks but that won’t matter this year.

 

Better team than ours.  They kicked our butts last season.

 

For Caleb to not want to go there it would have to be I gather him just being a big Commanders fan or wanting to be with Kingsbury.

 

Keim remains very skpetical among others that it happens.  But I'll keep my 1-5% chance it happens until the draft just because crazier things have happened.

[Skinsinparadise]

From Vikings reporter

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

10 hours ago, Dah-Dee said:

Two of my favorite Maye plays are in this clip

 

The pass against Minnesota at 1:37 I believe is my personal favorite. Again, I don't have a vendetta against Maye and am not rooting against him. I just want our perpetual QB problem fixed and if Maye's the cat to do that I'm all for it. 

Edited March 19 by Chump Bailey

[DogofWar1]

Vikings fans smoking some good stuff.

 

Like it's funny, because some mocks have us taking Maye, and some have us taking Jayden.  But pretty much every mock of the latter type has the Pats snagging Maye.  Only when we have mocks of the former do the Pats seem to trade out.

 

Which begs the question of how the heck the Vikings get to Maye.

 

It would require WAS to dislike BOTH and trade out, or WAS AND the Pats to dislike Maye, so that he's at 3 and the Pats trade out.  But those scenarios don't seem particularly likely.

 

It's draft silly season and these dudes gonna work themselves into a frenzy and then be super disappointed.

[Chump Bailey]

9 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

Here's some more: Had Dobbins over Jonathan Taylor in '20

 

That's forgivable in my book  

[KDawg]

I have decided where I stand on QB.

 

I don’t care. They all have warts. They all have strengths. I’m good with any of the top 4 (yes 4, I like McCarthy more than most but in being fully transparent I just don’t see us taking him. So while I include him I don’t think he’s in play)

 

You can say I should have a favorite, and maybe I should… but QBs are both selected and developed.

 

I’m not big on the whole mindset that QBs are 100% developed like some. They have to have high end talent and the work ethic and brain.

 

But the rest is on the team that they go to.

 

I think the top four can all be developed to be great… or developed to fail. So which one we get is completely irrelevant to me. 
 

We need to surround them with the tools they need as an individual and help grow them and any of the four will be fine.

 

But I do have a definitive stand to make, and I’ve referenced it prior…

 

We have to stay at 2 to take our QB.

[Conn]

6 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

Why do you think he's so inconsistent?

 

Is it  a footwork or technique issue that coaching, practice, and attention to detail can possibly correct, or is he just one of those frustrating players that will always struggle with random errant throws?

I think it’s mainly mechanical, yeah. He’s an instinctive player so he can do well when the structure breaks down, but he’s not been afforded a great pocket for most of his time as a starter, so he’s formed some bad habits that can lead to inconsistency at times. Some of it (imo of course, because we can’t get in these guys’ heads) is the bravado of being the best player on a poor team trying to make the play, knowing it comes down to you to make the play, rather than just getting to the next snap. I think a good NFL coaching staff that doesn’t put the entire operation on his shoulders can rein that in and see more in-structure consistency, where he basically led college football. When he’s kept clean, he’s the best. But even when he’s not, the guy makes the stuff that’s hard for NFL QB prospects look easy, especially attacking the middle of the field without the cheat code of Play Action, and in the NFL a lot of the “easy” stuff is the result of scheme imo. So life can be made easier for him than it was in college even though the league is overall a lot tougher, obviously.
 

He’s also a young player. He hasn’t had 5 years of college starter’s snaps to get his footwork down. I think his inconsistency is a bit overblown and has become a narrative to explain why his stats can be up and down. When if you isolate many of those games, it’s clear the stats don’t reflect the performance due to WR inadequacy and drops, etc. Not every poor performance, mind you. But I do think it’s a situation where people want an explanation, and the mechanical inconsistency of his dropback and footwork is right there as an easy target. 

Edited March 19 by Conn