The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Koolblue13]

Daniels surely has talent, but I have RG3 PTSD and he looks like the second coming. 

 

JD= Bayou Bob

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I need a raise around here.

 

I just gave you my two hands up raise on your post. 😊

Edited March 16 by zCommander

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I also did McCarthy.

Are you a cheerleader from the U.P.? 

[The Consigliere]

14 hours ago, Conn said:

I don’t agree with whoever casually said, as a matter of course, that JJ has all the tools you could want. I don’t agree. His arm is nothing special imo. You don’t NEED a special arm if you have everything else. But it’s a tool I want at #2 overall, sorry. Big part of why Daniels ability as a thrower doesn’t excite me at all either, seeing his bang average arm strength (which is already maximized by nearly perfect mechanics). 
 

I’m not advocating for over-valuing a Jamarcus Russell type arm, I’m not just talking about having a ****ing bazooka. I’m saying when you consider the whole package, if you need tie breakers then a special arm, prototypical size, etc…those things become deciding factors. 
 

But I don’t think these prospects are close enough to need tiebreakers, so in the end it doesn’t really matter.

 

Just, on principle I don’t agree that JJ has all the tools I want in my own personal Build-a-Bear franchise QB. The arm isn’t there, for me, even if it’s perfectly adequate and can “make all the throws”. I want more than that. I want impossible throws that a defender could never have expected—right now in this league really only Mahomes, Allen, Stafford, Rodgers, and Herbert can do that consistently. Not even highlight worthy plays, I’m talking just weekly 19-yard sizzlers that should never have been able to safely split the LB and S. But then the ball just arrives. Maye can become the 6th guy in the league with that ability. It’s part of what I covet, and it’s not JUST about arm strength, because again we aren’t talking about scrubs with powerful arms like Jamarcus—but you do need the arm strength to be among the tools in your tool belt to be that type of nightmare that I covet.

I hear you, it's basically the same reason I think Maye should clearly be the pick.

 

Maye is the guy who had the top 7 season as a 20 year old early elite level breakout age, making him a mild competitor with Williams to go 1.01 in 2024

 

Maye is the guy who has ideal size, frame, and arm strength. 

 

Maye is the guy who did it with a dog ---- supporting cast, and OL. 

 

Maye is the guy who sounds like he has the class mental makeup you want from a QB (I like Daniels too, but he sounds a bit more mild mannered and introverted/shy which can work (see Art Monk), but ideally, I want a QB who whatever his personality is, can make it work. 

 

Basically it feels like Maye has all the tiebreaking little bits you love, the pieces Daniels has? Elite athleticism and running, and JJ, winning, and big game performances, but how much is him, and how much is the team (nearly every national champion going back decades, had anonymous QB's who didn't do squat in the NFL after all, think of one elite QB the last 25 years that won a national championship? I struggle to think of any other than Lawrence and Watson who didn't quite reach that ceiling). 

[Voice_of_Reason]

19 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Are you a cheerleader from the U.P.? 

I guess that could have gone into the “taken Out of context thread…” which might still exist? Or maybe it was playing with fire too much and got shut down.  

43 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

Who is Newsome?

 

Odd.  Newmark autocorrected to Newsome.  
 

Or I got my “New-“something names confused.

 

whos to say?

 

I will edit.  

[HTTRDynasty]

And I guess we’d draft JJ in this scenario? One of the least terrible proposals I’ve seen. Still wouldn’t do it though. 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

13 hours ago, NOLA2DC said:

It was emphasized, was it not?

He was talking about it as an edge quality, a tiebreaker. We all know that while there are Elway's and Marino's, there are far more elite historical QB's like Brees and Montana and Brady, who were fine, but not mega elite arms. It's a nice tiebreaker, like hints of mental make up, athleticism, pressure to sack ratio (a huge asset for Penix) etc. The key with an arm, is that it is good enough to address all the throws you need to make, after that, its all cherry and whip cream, he knows that, he's saying a gun or cannon is a nice extra piece to have, like escapability, mobility etc. My mental make up angle is if you can figure it out accurately (sometimes you can', sometimes you're not sure till they're in house). 

[Conn]

When was the last time a three-way trade actually happened? Stupid tweet and absolute waste of time to even think about. 

[WashingtonRedWolves]

5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

And I guess we’d draft JJ in this scenario? One of the least terrible proposals I’ve seen. Still wouldn’t do it though. 

 

 

Then we feel obligated to take mccarthy at #5, which is a big reach

[seantaylor=god]

The only way I like the move is if their evaluation of the QBs has them liking Bo Nix or something and not liking the consensus top guys.

 

But it would be pretty shocking, and I think it would be terrible.

[illone]

13 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

And I guess we’d draft JJ in this scenario? One of the least terrible proposals I’ve seen. Still wouldn’t do it though. 

 

 

 

this here is some creative **** 🤣

 

yes, JJ would be the pick in this scenario, unless someone else somehow gets to #4 and drops a turd in the punchbowl. 
 

If we somehow end up with JJ + that haul?  Wow, just wow. 

[clskinsfan]

14 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

He is a pocket passer who can run.

I agree. But he cant throw on the run. And he doesnt have the arm strength to fire balls into tight windows consistently either. His arm isnt terrible. But is average at best imo. 

[The Consigliere]

14 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Kiper should be in the HOF because he made the draft what it is.

 

Bur he’s wrong all the time.  And I think at times he’s intentionally wrong so he can be theatrical when the opposite move happens.  
 

He was on the other day and said “Jayden Daniels has settled into 2.  And now May and McCarthy is a competition.”

 

The entire draft coverage blowing up can can be traced back to him criticizing the colts for passing on Trent Dilfer.  And Bill Tobin said “who is Mel Kiper anyway?” 
 

I love Mel because he basically made this event what it is.  
 

But he’s basically wrong about everything.  

He's not, he's been right a lot and wrong a lot, he's basically better than random guy, but not skilled at what he thinks he's skilled at, but at the same time, I think Kiper's evaluations were always a jambalya of his own evaluations, those of scouts he talked to, and those of front office types willing to talk to him, and eventually exposure to other media draft nicks. We need to separate out guys who genuinely scout these guys and score them all on their own, I guess that would be Zierlein and Brugler to name two, and guys who blend their own feelings, with contacts. Kiper's mocks are definitely heavily influenced by aggregation. 

[Conn]

Ignoring the fact that a 3-way trade is ****ing stupid to hypothesize, that isn’t even close to enough compensation to move back from 2 to 5. Especially since you could technically miss out on every single QB from Williams through McCarthy by moving to 5, you could easily get leapfrogged at 4 by the Giants or anyone. A late 1st, future 1st, and multiple years away 2nd is not nearly enough value to give away your choice of QB’s and go all the way to 5. Super dumb even setting aside the 3-way trade part. 

Edited March 16 by Conn

[clskinsfan]

12 hours ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

I watched a show with DJ this morning and he does think we might be trading back. I just dont see it. You signed a massive amount of vets to fill the roster and you are going to go into the season with Mariota as your starter after doing that?

[Voice_of_Reason]

17 minutes ago, Conn said:

When was the last time a three-way trade actually happened? Stupid tweet and absolute waste of time to even think about. 

You are a negative force in my existence!!!

 

(but not wrong) 

[Conn]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

I watched a show with DJ this morning and he does think we might be trading back. I just dont see it. You signed a massive amount of vets to fill the roster and you are going to go into the season with Mariota as your starter after doing that?

Nobody has a clue, there are zero leaks happening. Most higher up people in our own org have no clue. Everything you read or watch right now is just made up to fill page space and fill airtime. DJ doesn’t have a clue, nor does anyone else. 
 

People erroneously extrapolating our QB choice based on the signing of Mariota (and then being wrong about which prospect his skillset is more similar to—it’s not Daniels) after Darnold was actually our first choice for backup is equally hilarious. 

[DogofWar1]

Remember, if a scenario seems too clever by half, it probably is.

[clskinsfan]

3 hours ago, Skins199021 said:

I take Daniels because he has higher upside

I disagree. Maye has the far higher upside imo. I wont hate either one of them. But the tools god gave Maye are far superior to the ones he gave Daniels. Could Maye bust? Yep. But so could any of these guys. And Mayes potential upside is the reason I would make him the pick.

[gooseneck]

I haven't been on this topic for a while.  Is everything resolved yet?

[Voice_of_Reason]

17 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Then we feel obligated to take mccarthy at #5, which is a big reach

Not according to Mel and Thor idiotic know nothing moronic Nystrom who sears on his reputation, which of course also swore Malik Willis was going to be a top 10 QB, who LOVES McCarthy and thinks he's definitely better than Maye. 

[sjinhan]

If we dont think JD and Maye are not “can’t miss” type of prospect and we are happy with Penix and McCarthy then I do like us trading back.

 

trade our pick to Minnesota  for their two 1st round this year and 1st in 2025 AND 1st in 2026.

 

I mean if we dont think JD or Maye is the next great QB then you would those future picks would be in the upper half of the draft.   Minnesota is probably the worse team in that division if Bears hit with Caleb Williams.

Trading back would give us another real shot at a QB in the future years with extra 1st round picks

Edited March 16 by sjinhan

[alaroche04]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Daniels surely has talent, but I have RG3 PTSD and he looks like the second coming. 

 

JD= Bayou Bob

I’m honestly not seeing what makes Daniels a better prospect than Justin Fields tbh. I don’t think that Daniels is a better passer or has better field vision than Fields at this point, and we’re seeing firsthand what Fields is and is not. 
 

 

[Jags]

3 hours ago, Skins199021 said:

Seems kind of crazy that people would actually be insanely upset if we drafted Daniels over Maye.

 

My opinion… I take Daniels because he has higher upside and played better competition, but I wouldn’t find it to be some great travesty if they took Maye instead 

 

I pretty much feel the same way.  Overall, I trust the people we have making the decision.  So even if it's a third option -- that they feel confident moving back and still getting the guy they want -- I have to trust them cuz at the end of the day, as much as I love football, I'm certainly not an expert.

 

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Maye is obviously the better prospect and he is obviously the one we should draft at 2.

 

Just to preface this because I'm new here and I don't want it to come off wrong -- I'm genuinely asking for your take...  When you watch an evaluation of Maye like the one from Chris Simms -- which I personally thought was extreme but also see a lot of the things he refers to when he explains the ranking in detail -- what are your feelings on what he said?  He gives a pretty detailed review of why Maye concerns him while still admitting that he could be great.  What do you see that makes those concerns less of a thing?

 

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If he was 20lbs heavier, I would have many fewer concerns. 

 

Yeah, I agree.  And it's not just that he's so light and narrow.  It's that it's a body type that doesn't want more weight.  He could force it on and work to keep it on, but he's clearly got a build and metabolism that don't make it easy.  And even if he were to put weight on, it's kind of late.  He might just be slowing himself down at this point, which would be counterintuitive heading into the NFL.

 

I'll be fine with it if he's who they want, but he plays such a perimeter game.  So few passes to the middle of the field.  I hope that's just a system thing they can cure easily.  Sure, Wilson won a Super Bowl playing that way, so I guess it's fine.  I just prefer those QBs that more routinely show that they can command the whole field.

[Voice_of_Reason]

19 minutes ago, sjinhan said:

we dont think JD and Maye are not “can’t miss” type of prospect

There is no such thing.  The bust rate of top 5 QBs is over 50%.  
 

You take the best prospect you think who has the highest ceiling.  And then you make ritual sacrifices to the football gods, hope and pray you’re right.