The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

You, @SoCalSkins and Bram Weinstein are twisting yourselves into a pretzel to see something which most likely isn't there.  

Maybe so, but I’m not losing sleep over that. Daniels at #2 so be it. I’ll buy into whoever we take. I’m simply matching what I see as the current ambitions of Harris & Co. Doesn’t seem like a settle for second best guy. Neither does Caleb, to be honest.

 

But time will tell. All good for me. We are killing it.
 

 

[Redskins 2021]

 The odds of getting Calob are low but what's with all this talk of having to give up a ton. 

 

 The Bears will want MHJ they really can't move much further down then 2 for him. We could take him or trade down for someone who wants him.

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

Yeah, who wants a QB with morals and decent character?

How is that a character or morality issue? Caleb prior to 2011 would command more per year than Mahommes and Burrow. The revised CBA slotted players on a rookie scale. Caleb is going to get the top pick contract regardless of who drafts him. Why is it wrong for him to try and maximize his future potential to the best fit him?

 

A 101 year old owner of the Bears has far more morality and character issues looked at from a modern lens than Caleb does. If he doesn’t want to play for her or that team he can do whatever he feels is best for him. Same for the Bears. It’s a business transaction at the end of the day.  

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

People lie to the media in sports all the time. Players, coaches, GMs, owners.... all par for the course.

Apparently not. What a bizarre take to think otherwise, right…

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Having said that, things are moving targets.  Things can change.  So what's true today could be false tomorrow.

Indeed. We are moving fast. Where that ends, we’ll soon find out. However, we’re in a great place IMO.

3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

How is that a character or morality issue? Caleb prior to 2011 would command more per year than Mahommes and Burrow. The revised CBA slotted players on a rookie scale. Caleb is going to get the top pick contract regardless of who drafts him. Why is it wrong for him to try and maximize his future potential to the best fit him?

 

A 101 year old owner of the Bears has far more morality and character issues looked at from a modern lens than Caleb does. If he doesn’t want to play for her or that team he can do whatever he feels is best for him. Same for the Bears. It’s a business transaction at the end of the day.  

Morality. NFL. Bloody Hell. It’s a stange argument isn’t it.

[WashingtonRedWolves]

Howell had one of the lowest yds/att in the league among starters and still managed a league-worst 21 INTs. 1st Down % and QB rating also near worst. 

The only guy he really beat out in some of those stats was probably Bryce Young, who was the only other QB with sacks in the 60s.

He's 23 and going into his 3rd year so maybe there's time, but he was not really a "proven starter". He was a guy who ended up starting.

The new regime clearly was not impressed and is cleaning house. That's fine with me.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

From what I recall, neither Keim nor anybody else had the Kingsbury scoop until it happened. After the fact, it came out that Magic made it happen behind the scenes.

 

If that's happening with Caleb, it will be very under-the-radar and I wouldn't expect anybody in the commentariat - neither Keim nor Schefter nor anyone in between - to get a whiff until it happens. Slowly, slowly, slowly... then all at once.

 

That being said - I'm not saying it happens or that I feel strongly about it one way or the other. Just pointing out that there is a clear path in the event HOG and/or Peters & Quinn want. 

 

I don't recall.  But my point isn't Keim has EVERY scoop and knows what they are going to do on everything in advance.  No one does.    He's lucky to be on top of 5% of stories before they surface.  But when he actually launches into this is what I've heard, he's almost never wrong.  He's opined on Caleb.  So my point isn't we heard nothing from Keim on it yet.  My point is we have.

 

Like I said here if I hear from any of few rare superstar scoop reporters make the point that the Bears are looking to deal Caleb, or Caleb doesn't want to play for the Bears or this team doesn't like who they can get at #2 and will do whatever they can at #1 -- that will get my attention.  It doesn't have to be Keim.  It could be Schefter.  Breer.  Garafolo.  Maybe Rapoport.

 

For me to buy into it, I need at least 1 of those three narratives from a reporter who is almost never wrong.  It hasn't happened yet.  i am not saying it won't.  I got no idea what Caleb is thinking deep down of course or what Poles or Peters think.  But 95% of the noise right now give or take is Caleb is going to the Bears.  For me to shift my take, I'd need a big time reporter, even if its just one of that bunch to say watch out for Caleb to Washington.

Edited March 14 by Skinsinparadise

[Number 44]

11 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't get the people who think this move means we're trading up.  I don't see how the two are connected at all.

 

At the VERY VERY least, a trade up from #2 to #1 is going to take a 2024 2nd and 3rd and a 2025 first.  There is no question the 2025 first is a bare minimum.  And the reason why is somebody who doesn't have the #2 pick would offer it to move from 3+ to get to #1.  

 

This trade doesn't change any of that. The Bears are not going to move back because we trade them a 2 and two 3's.  

Yeah, I agree moving up from a 4 to a 3 doesn't signal a trade up from #2 to #1 in any way.  Heck, I don't see the logic in trading up to #1 in any case.  If the Bears like Williams at #1, they aren't trading him to us, period.  If they like Maye or Daniels at #1, they would never trade down to any team but us and risk losing out, so we would have no reason to move up, since Williams would fall to us if they took Maye or Daniels.  The only reason they would ever trade down beyond us is if they've decided to not go with a QB.  Seems unlikely, but even in that case, they would be far more likely to talk trade with NE or ARIZ or maybe LAC than us, as they'd likely get more back in trade from one of those teams.  Just don't see any case where a trade would make sense for both CHI and WAS.  Decide on the 2 QBs that top your draft board and take the top one that fall to you.

[stoshuaj]

12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

You, @SoCalSkins and Bram Weinstein are twisting yourselves into a pretzel to see something which most likely isn't there.  

 

But I think you're looking for signs to confirm your opinion, rather than deriving the opinion from what's actually going on.

C’mon, don’t you remember SCS’ absolutely, positively, I’ve never been wrong in my life assertion that Bezos was buying the team?  
 

Just keep giving him rope…..

[WashingtonRedWolves]

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't get the people who think this move means we're trading up.  I don't see how the two are connected at all.

 

At the VERY VERY least, a trade up from #2 to #1 is going to take a 2024 2nd and 3rd and a 2025 first.  There is no question the 2025 first is a bare minimum.  And the reason why is somebody who doesn't have the #2 pick would offer it to move from 3+ to get to #1.  

 

This trade doesn't change any of that. The Bears are not going to move back because we trade them a 2 and two 3's.  

 

I don't read ANYTHING into this trade other than they wanted a veteran backup for a rookie QB, and they could get a good value for Howell, who now has a chance to compete for a job and play.  

 

That's it.  

 

Just like I said when they signed Mariota, I didn't rad anything into that move either other than they wanted a vet, and they got one they are familiar with.  

 

If you HAVE to extrapolate "meaning" into this, I think the easiest thing to extrapolate is they didn't want Howell and Maye together because it would be bad juju for the team, so they erased that possibility early. 

 

I personally don't even believe that.  

 

I STILL think there's a 75% chance we take Maye because he's got a Herbert level ceiling, and Daniels does not have a Lamar level ceiling.  But that's based on my evaluation.  I could be wrong.  

 

But I don't think either signing Mariota or trading Howell really has anything to do with any of that at all.  

Are you ok with running with Mariota as our starter for the year? Because many signs are pointing to Maye needing to sit for a while before he’s ready to play, whereas Williams/Daniels have been viewed as much more “pro-ready”. Without howell now, trotting out mariota is probably where this would be headed if we took maye. Maybe maye blows everyone away in camp but I don’t think Peters is inclined on taking that chance/keen on having mariota as anything but a backup mentor

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

 

Morality. NFL. Bloody Hell. It’s a stange argument isn’t it.

 

Generally teams do like to have guys in leadership positions who they believe have moral and character integrity.

 

But from a rational point of view, can you tell me what Caleb had to gain by lying about it? Lying over and over. As @Voice_of_Reasonnoted, in other circumstances where QBs didn't wan to go first to a certain team, they were open about it.

 

Why does Caleb need to lie? It won't impact his draft status at all. He'll still be picked #1 by whoever were to finalize a trade for him. It certainly isn't something that's going to make him look good.

 

What exactly do you think his specific end goal in lying about it many times?

[Command The 414]

I’ve been a fan of this team long enough to not get wrapped up in a player or 2, the last players I had any emotional attachment too were Art Monk, Darrell Green (hey days as a kid in the 80’s)

 

Having said that I would have liked to have seen Howell have a better opportunity and turnout then he did last season but he’s gone now and I do hope the best for him.

 

As a lot of ppl have said, and I totally agree with Im a fan of this franchise, and I don’t care if it’s Mariota, Williams, Maye, Daniels, Fields or a Pink Pony I just wanna win and for me Peters, Quinn and Co have the pulse of this team and I’m backing them….

Edited March 14 by Command The 414

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, stoshuaj said:

C’mon, don’t you remember SCS’ absolutely, positively, I’ve never been wrong in my life assertion that Bezos was buying the team?  
 

Just keep giving him rope…..

He has claimed he’s never been wrong about any player ever. The only time he has been wrong has been on Bezos.

 

Shrug.

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Are you ok with running with Mariota as our starter for the year? Because many signs are pointing to Maye needing to sit for a while before he’s ready to play, whereas Williams/Daniels have been viewed as much more “pro-ready”. Without howell now, trotting out mariota is probably where this would be headed if we took maye. Maybe maye blows everyone away in camp but I don’t think Peters is inclined on taking that chance/keen on having mariota as anything but a backup mentor

 

The only "signs" of that are some Twitter "scouts". We have zero evidence that any teams actually think any of this stuff. And IMO if you're going to make that case for Maye there's just as much of a case to be made for Daniels sitting for a year as well.

[Est.1974]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

Why does Caleb need to lie? It won't impact his draft status at all. He'll still be picked #1 by whoever were to finalize a trade for him. It certainly isn't something that's going to make him look good.

 

What exactly do you think his specific end goal in lying about it many times?

I feel like this a pointless circular debate with you. I’m happy to stick with my view and I’m not bothered in trying to shift you. Let see what unfolds. 

[cboatner]

Two and one-half unsolicited opinions;

 

1) Commanders came out on the bottom of the Howell trade deal,

2) Trading up for CW will require far more capital than warranted by the perceived ceiling differential in light of roster needs, and places tremendous pressure on a rookie a QB & GM.

   2) a. Opinion #2: This possibility smells Syneresque.

 

"Guff on" as a wise man once was said in the old days.

[mistertim]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

I feel like this a pointless circular debate with you. I’m happy to stick with my view and I’m not bothered in trying to shift you. Let see what unfolds. 

 

This is not an unfair question. You've stated that you think he's lying. I'm trying to figure out why he'd feel the need to lie. It makes no rational sense to me.

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

This is not an unfair question. You've stated that you think he's lying. I'm trying to figure out why he'd feel the need to lie. It makes no rational sense to me.

I know you can’t rationalise my opinion. That’s why it’s a pointless discussion.

[FootballZombie]

1 minute ago, cboatner said:

1) Commanders came out on the bottom of the Howell trade deal,

 

Forgot about that.

 

Pretty much a final nail in that shoulda drafted Olave question.

[mistertim]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

I know you can’t rationalise my opinion. That’s why it’s a pointless discussion.

 

If there were a clear answer and a clear advantage to him lying, then you should be able to rationalize your own opinion on the matter, not mine. But it seems you can't.

[Command The 414]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The only "signs" of that are some Twitter "scouts". We have zero evidence that any teams actually think any of this stuff. And IMO if you're going to make that case for Maye there's just as much of a case to be made for Daniels sitting for a year as well.

It’s funny you say that cause (I admit I’m a YouTube Podcast listening fan) and lately everyone I’ve watched says how Maye isn’t ready and needs time to sit bluh bluh… I kinda wonder if they’re just riding other coat tails of this opinion or they’re making it on their own… today it was Chase Daniel on his Podcast with Trey Wingo and he said Maye isn’t ready by what he saw and has heard…

[RWJ]

4 minutes ago, cboatner said:

Two and one-half unsolicited opinions;

 

1) Commanders came out on the bottom of the Howell trade deal,

2) Trading up for CW will require far more capital than warranted by the perceived ceiling differential in light of roster needs, and places tremendous pressure on a rookie a QB & GM.

   2) a. Opinion #2: This possibility smells Syneresque.

 

"Guff on" as a wise man once was said in the old days.

NO we didn't.  We drafted him in the 5th and basically got a low end 3rd for him after playing one season.  Come on. 

[CapsSkins]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't recall.  But my point isn't Keim has EVERY scoop and knows what they are going to do on everything in advance.  No one does.    He's lucky to be on top of 5% of stories before they surface.  But when he actually launches into this is what I've heard, he's almost never wrong.  He's opined on Caleb.  So my point isn't we heard nothing from Keim on it yet.  My point is we have.

 

Like I said here if I hear from any of few rare superstar scoop reporters make the point that the Bears are looking to deal Caleb, or Caleb doesn't want to play for the Bears or this team doesn't like who they can get at #2 and will do whatever they can at #1 -- that will get my attention.  It doesn't have to be Keim.  It could be Schefter.  Breer.  Garafolo.  Maybe Rapoport.

 

For me to buy into it, I need at least 1 of those three narratives from a reporter who is almost never wrong.  It hasn't happened yet.  i am not saying it won't.  I got no idea what Caleb is thinking deep down of course or what Poles or Peters think.  But 95% of the noise right now give or take is Caleb is going to the Bears.  For me to shift my take, I'd need a big time reporter, even if its just one of that bunch to say watch out for Caleb to Washington.

 

I don't disagree. I'm not making a prediction here I'm just speculating on the plausibility, and I feel there's enough there to make a case.

 

The HC in Chicago Eberfluss is on the hot seat. The McCaskey family who owns the Bears is notoriously cheap. They have DJ Moore, Cole KMet, and nada on offense - just lost WR Mooney. They have a glaring need at Center and a below average OL across the board. Ryan Poles seems like a bright, young GM but is still seeking to make his mark.

 

Meanwhile, DC is a much different situation. We have a best in class coaching staff, led by the highly respect Quinn, and coordinated on the O side with Kingsbury whom Caleb knows well (not to mention experienced guys like Anthony Lynn and Brian Johnson along with highly-regarded QB coaches in Pritchard and Blough as well). Adam Peters is a best-in-class evaluator and team builder. We've made moves to give our rookie QB a security blanket between Ekeler and Ertz, plus obviously we have Terry and a good running game thru BRob ad CRod (plus Ekeler). The ownership group is iconic and DC is home for him. We have tons of picks and are in good shape cap-wise. Guys like Bobby Wagner in the locker room.

 

It's easy to see why he would prefer the Commies to the Bears. The rest follows from there. 

Edited March 14 by CapsSkins

[Spaceman Spiff]

Maybe I shouldn’t be as negative as I’ve been.  
 

 

[method man]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

I don't disagree. I'm not making a prediction here I'm just speculating on the plausibility, and I feel there's enough there to make a case.

 

The HC in Chicago Eberfluss is on the hot seat. The McCaskey family who owns the Bears is notoriously cheap. They have DJ Moore, Cole KMet, and nada on offense - just lost WR Mooney. They have a glaring need at OC and a below average OL across the board. Ryan Poles seems like a bright, young GM but is still seeking to make his mark.

 

Meanwhile, DC is a much different situation. We have a best in class coaching staff, led by the highly respect Quinn, and coordinated on the O side with Kingsbury whom Caleb knows well (not to mention experienced guys like Anthony Lynn and Brian Johnson along with highly-regarded QB coaches in Pritchard and Blough as well). Adam Peters is a best-in-class evaluator and team builder. We've made moves to give our rookie QB a security blanket between Ekeler and Ertz, plus obviously we have Terry and a good running game thru BRob ad CRod (plus Ekeler). The ownership group is iconic and DC is home for him. We have tons of picks and are in good shape cap-wise. Guys like Bobby Wagner in the locker room.

 

It's easy to see why he would prefer the Commies to the Bears. The rest follows from there. 

 

Ask yourself this: given the types of players Peters has brought in so far, does Caleb fit from an attitude/mindset standpoint given what is known about him?

[Spaceman Spiff]

11 minutes ago, stoshuaj said:

C’mon, don’t you remember SCS’ absolutely, positively, I’ve never been wrong in my life assertion that Bezos was buying the team?  
 

Just keep giving him rope…..

I remember. Deal was as good as done.