The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mac8887]

21 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

There's maybe smoke at best on this...still...

 

 

If we can't get caleb, this would be my second favorite option I think, it might he right behind selecting jayden daniels. Harrison will be great, and our receiving core would be great. Plus, on espn radio a couple weeks ago, Mel Kiper said if fields was coming out this year, he'd only he behind caleb williams on his big board. The only problem is that fields rookie contract is almost up and soon his salary goes up a lot

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Be ready for “The Bears are looking at Drake Maye” and “The Bears really like Jayden Daniels” soon. They will want to manufacture trade possibilities from NE/Washington so they don’t feel comfortable sitting tight.

 

Yeah it behooves the Bears, this team or that team to make it feel like anything goes.  The biggest thing I expect from the Bears is them touting how much they love Justin Fields and its hard call to move off of him for Caleb.  You got to do that to drum trade capital. 

 

This team especially under Bruce would stupidly devalue their trade capital with their rhetotic.  But most smarter teams play up their players in house.  I recall that long dance from the Cardinals about how much they loved Josh Rosen (even though it came out later they thought "meh") and they aren't sure if they are taking a Qb in the draft.  i suspect the same from the Bears with rhetoric that Fields is a cross between Mahomes and Lamar Jackson and they'd be giddy to have him running forward.

 

As for Washington, they got to play the game publicly and via leaks the same way.  They are perfectly fine running with Howell. Something like Klingsbury studied Howell and loves him.  Am not saying we trade Howell but its in this team's best interest to keep teams guessing as to who they like and what they want to do.

[MartinC]

10 hours ago, illone said:

 

But, if someone dangles a 2nd rounder Id jump on that thing like a good soldier on a hand grenade. 

We would organize a go fund me to pay for the private jet to deliver him. But I have as much chance of a date with Jennifer Lawrence as us getting a 2nd round pick for Sam.

[DWinzit]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Klingsbury would have to fix the dude superfast.   Possible?  Maybe.  He'd need to be extended for his 5th season now.  So his salary already jumps I believe into the mid 20s next year.  And then I gather he would demand bigger money after that.  So the only thing I'd like about it is it would mean this FO thinks they can go far this season or perhaps next.  Because you won't have the room to build the team on a cheap QB contract. 

 

Same reason why most think the Bears trade Fields.  It's Caleb but also its the cheap QB contract that gives you a window.  Are windown would be basically one season, 2024 on a cheap contract.  Unless Fields sucks and then you let him go for nothing but in that case its not a hot trade.  So for me if its Fields the idea is we are a SB threat in 2024 or worse case 2025.

I think you are on it. Seems if Kingsbury wanted to fix a QB, he can do that with Howell. The idea of being a SB threat in 2024 they would probably need to bring in a Cousins/Howel or perhaps a JJ/Penix/Nix with an incredibly built up roster. Cousins doesn't cost draft the precious draft capital and has proven better than Fields to this point. It is possible build a great roster with FA and draft. 

 

The Fields trade talk reminds me of the desperate teams looking for an answer like we have been in the past. We are in a different spot this year and will take advantage of that.

[Skinsinparadise]

Picking up on the theme I mentioned yesterday, Maye's biggest fan best aming talking heads are ex-QBs.  Reid also played college QB.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39098016/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-top-50-prospects-positional-jordan-reid

 

2024 NFL draft rankings: Jordan Reid's top 50 prospects

• 
  Jordan Reid, NFL draft analystFeb 7, 2024, 06:30 AM ET

The 2024 NFL draft is coming up fast. The Senior Bowl is behind us, and the combine is under a month away. A lot will change in this offense-heavy draft class, but where do things stand right now?

After months of film study, going on the road for games throughout the college football season and getting an up-close look at players at both the Senior Bowl and East-West Shrine Bowl, I ranked my top 50 prospects for the 2024 class. I also included in-depth scouting notes and interesting statistics on each player, as well as my top five positional rankings at the bottom.

 

1. Marvin Harrison Jr., WR, Ohio State

Height: 6-foot-4 | Weight: 205 pounds

Harrison has rare body control, strong hands and great flexibility, putting him in line with the top receiver prospects we've seen this century. Despite inconsistent QB play at Ohio State in 2023, he still managed to be arguably the most dangerous playmaker in the country, compiling 67 catches for 1,211 receiving yards and 14 touchdowns. He's able to win in a variety of ways, showing the route-running skills of a smaller receiver. And Harrison is an instant-impact type of prospect with the potential to be a top-10 receiver in the NFL as early as his rookie season.

---

2. Caleb Williams, QB, USC

Height: 6-1 | Weight: 215

Williams hasn't wavered as my QB1 in this class. I see a lot of "wow" moments on tape, a product of his confidence in his arm and terrific playmaking ability. He's capable of dissecting defensive looks and delivering the ball quickly. But on the flip side, his all-or-nothing habits will need to be tempered, as he tends to want the highlight-worthy play rather than just taking what the defense gives him too often. Williams finished the season with a 72.9% completion percentage on throws from inside the pocket (fifth-best in the FBS), and he threw for 3,633 yards, 30 touchdown passes and five interceptions in 2023.

 

---

3. Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina

Height: 6-4 | Weight: 230

Watch his tape, and you'll see five or six plays per game that make you marvel at Maye's overall ability. He has the arm strength to get the ball to all levels, completing 35 passes of 20-plus air yards -- third-most in the country. He has prototypical size and is also an underrated runner. Progression effectiveness is an area where Maye will need to improve, as he tends to hang onto reads too long and compound mistakes instead of getting through to the next available option. I see some similarities to Justin Herbert, though Maye's arm isn't quite as strong.

---

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I think you are on it. Seems if Kingsbury wanted to fix a QB, he can do that with Howell. The idea of being a SB threat in 2024 they would probably need to bring in a Cousins/Howel or perhaps a JJ/Penix/Nix with an incredibly built up roster. Cousins doesn't cost draft the precious draft capital and has proven better than Fields to this point. It is possible build a great roster with FA and draft. 

 

The Fields trade talk reminds me of the desperate teams looking for an answer like we have been in the past. We are in a different spot this year and will take advantage of that.

 

The trick is how these people are throwing this against the wall, its easy to do.  You can throw Fields against the wall and say why not Washington or the Pats or whomever take Marvin Harrison and trade for Justin Fields.  There is some basic logic to it that makes it sound plausible.

 

But I think no to little chance this team does it.  Forget the idea that this is a rare opportunity to draft a QB high in a touted draft for QBs -- its also perfect for a team that needs to rebuild their roster.  A rookie QB gives you a window to do it.  It's the biggest loophole in the salary cap era.  And it feels wild for them not to take that opportunity.

 

But in this team's shoes, I wouldn't mind any rumor.  Trade up.  Trade down. do whatever.  So I believe that the vocal minority of fans who don't want this team to take a Qb at #2 will feel very vindicated through most of the process because the team really has to say and or leak that trading down or doing whatever is an option, ditto sticking with Howell.  That's the smart way to play it as to keeping teams guessing.  But in the end, I'd be shocked if they don't go QB.

 

Just like am sure the Arizona fans who wanted to ride it back with Josh Rosen felt good that it was a strong possibility through most of the process until it didn't happen.  You have to play up any scenario as making sense even if they don't privately feel that it does.  Ditto you got to leak it to the media that way, too.

 

Edited February 8 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

We are picking a QB at #2 overall. 
 

I get we and the media have to fill time and an infinite amount of internet space with alternative scenarios and teams need to blow smoke at this time of year - but we are taking a QB. The only question is which one.

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The trick is how these people are throwing this against the wall, its easy to do.  You can throw Fields against the wall and say why not Washington or the Pats or whomever take Marvin Harrison and trade for Justin Fields.  There is some basic logic to it that makes it sound plausible.

 

But I think no to little chance this team does it.  Forget the idea that this is a rare opportunity to draft a QB high in a touted draft for QBs -- its also perfect for a team that needs to rebuild their roster.  A rookie QB gives you a window to do it.  It's the biggest loophole in the salary cap era.  And it feels wild for them not to take that opportunity.

 

But in this team's shoes, I wouldnt mind any rumor.  Trade up.  Trade down. do whatever.  So I believe that the vocal minority of fans who don't want this team to take a Qb at #2 will feel vindicated through most of the process because the team really has to say and or leak that trading down or doing whatever is an option, ditto sticking with Howell.  That's the smart way to play it as to keeping teams guessing.  But in the end, I'd be shocked if they don't go QB.

 

Agree on the rumor mill...let em fly. I posted when Quinn became official that I loved the fact that rumors flew and no one was sure of what the team was doing or wanted. There weren't leaks like we had become accustomed to.

37 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Be ready for “The Bears are looking at Drake Maye” and “The Bears really like Jayden Daniels” soon. They will want to manufacture trade possibilities from NE/Washington so they don’t feel comfortable sitting tight.

Yup, there will be tons of these type rumors. It is the lying season!

[Renegade7]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I liked Fields in the draft.  But for me what a let down that would be.  Pretty crappy QB in the pros but great runner essentially.  

 

Klingsbury would have to fix the dude superfast.   Possible?  Maybe.  He'd need to be extended for his 5th season now.  So his salary already jumps I believe into the mid 20s next year.  And then I gather he would demand bigger money after that.  So the only thing I'd like about it is it would mean this FO thinks they can go far this season or perhaps next.  Because you won't have the room to build the team on a cheap QB contract. 

 

Same reason why most think the Bears trade Fields.  It's Caleb but also its the cheap QB contract that gives you a window.  Our window would be basically one season, 2024 on a cheap contract.  Unless Fields sucks and then you let him go for nothing but in that case its not a hot trade.  So for me if its Fields the idea is we are a SB threat in 2024 or worse case 2025.  Not saying you can't build a team with a big QB salary on the books but its not as easy.

 

 

 

You raise some good points.

 

That 2nd rounder is essentially a late 1st rounder.

 

I'd need to see or hear KK say he believes he can fix him, id believe him if he thinks he can.

 

I want us to keep a $20 million buffer in our cap if we don't have a QB making that much so we aren't backed into a corner if our rookie contract QB busts.

 

Even as a bridge to build a QB ready team with Harrison, Terry, and Dotson at least sounds flexible to me.

 

I'm still for drafting Maye, but if we did this, I wouldn't trip.  Means they see good value with a known vs the high impact of drafting the wrong QB at #2.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

I'm still for drafting Maye, but if we did this, I wouldn't trip.  Means they see good value with a known vs the high impact of drafting the wrong QB at #2.

 

I wouldn't trip if they did anything in real time.  I'll trust it in the moment.  But they better be right.  If they are wrong IMO its unforgivable and Peters needs to go. 

 

In short, if they do anything unconventional and IMO not going QB with the #2 pick when you need a QB in a touted QB draft is unconventional -- then you got to nail it. 

 

It's unforgivable to me that the most QB starved team maybe in the history of the NFL  goes down a different path when given a potential get out of jail card and gets it wrong.

 

I don't really fear though it happens.  I know we got a vocal minority of fans pushing for them not to go QB at 2.  And like I said, I think they will feel vindicated through most of the process because it behooves the team to indicate that trading out of that pick is under strong consideration. but in the end, I'd be shocked if they don't go QB at 2.

 

As for Fields, I've watched my share of him.  He's painful to watch as a passer.  Some talk about Howell not processing fast enough, but Fields to my eyes take that to another level. But as a runner he's electric and has good arm talent.  Can he be fixed?  I don't know.  But I'd be surprised if this team took it on.  

Edited February 8 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

Again, gambling on Fields for a 2 (which we have two of) makes sense in a vacuum. Especially considering Kingsbury.

 

But again, this isn’t a vacuum.

 

If we were picking, say, 26th and Williams, Maye, Daniels and McCarthy were out of our reach, I could see giving the Bears a 2 to see if Fields can continue his improvements like he has every single year and break out.

 

But… I want to emphasize this because I think it gets lost a little bit:

 

We’re picking second. Overall. 
 

In a good QB draft. 
 

This isn’t a vacuum and there is context. I don’t think this is even really worth the discussion. But crazy **** has happened.

 

This would be a move that would make me question the front office. Probably not write them off yet, because it could work in theory. But it would be a really risky move. More risky than drafting a QB at 2. And more asset forfeiture.

 

Doesn’t make sense at all.

[WashingtonRedWolves]

10 hours ago, dyst said:

Every so often, I'll go to Youtube and watch the most recent highlight videos of the top three QBs. I try my best to convince myself Maye and Daniels would be a great pick (which ultimately it may be) but each time I watch clips; Caleb just seems the most impressive. Tough job these talent evaluators have.

His pocket awareness is second to none. Consistency and accuracy impress me. Watching him run around and evade defenders for 7 seconds and then finding an open receiver does not. He will get destroyed doing that at the NFL level. Maybe it's just the videos, too many hero throws but I need to see more of him making anticipation throws and in rhythm throwing to his first read or second or third read. Even a simple screen pass as bread and butter throws to confuse the defense. I need to see more.

 

On the seemingly hundreds of analysis videos of the top 3 QBs I do recall that the average time to get rid of the ball that Williams was worse and way too long compared to the NFL norm. But his body control in the air on those jump throws is pretty elite. Also rolling right he can throw darts even when he's almost throwing across his body.

Edited February 8 by WashingtonRedWolves

[Est.1974]

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

This would be a move that would make me question the front office. Probably not write them off yet, because it could work in theory. But it would be a really risky move. More risky than drafting a QB at 2. And more asset forfeiture.

We’ll have to get more creative then….

 

Bears get #2 so they can pair MHJ with Williams.

 

We get #9, Fields, their 3rd rounder and a future pick TBD.

[FlyBigBeard]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Picking up on the theme I mentioned yesterday, Maye's biggest fan best aming talking heads are ex-QBs.  Reid also played college QB.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39098016/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-top-50-prospects-positional-jordan-reid

 

2024 NFL draft rankings: Jordan Reid's top 50 prospects

• 
  Jordan Reid, NFL draft analystFeb 7, 2024, 06:30 AM ET

The 2024 NFL draft is coming up fast. The Senior Bowl is behind us, and the combine is under a month away. A lot will change in this offense-heavy draft class, but where do things stand right now?

After months of film study, going on the road for games throughout the college football season and getting an up-close look at players at both the Senior Bowl and East-West Shrine Bowl, I ranked my top 50 prospects for the 2024 class. I also included in-depth scouting notes and interesting statistics on each player, as well as my top five positional rankings at the bottom.

 

1. Marvin Harrison Jr., WR, Ohio State

Height: 6-foot-4 | Weight: 205 pounds

Harrison has rare body control, strong hands and great flexibility, putting him in line with the top receiver prospects we've seen this century. Despite inconsistent QB play at Ohio State in 2023, he still managed to be arguably the most dangerous playmaker in the country, compiling 67 catches for 1,211 receiving yards and 14 touchdowns. He's able to win in a variety of ways, showing the route-running skills of a smaller receiver. And Harrison is an instant-impact type of prospect with the potential to be a top-10 receiver in the NFL as early as his rookie season.

---

2. Caleb Williams, QB, USC

Height: 6-1 | Weight: 215

Williams hasn't wavered as my QB1 in this class. I see a lot of "wow" moments on tape, a product of his confidence in his arm and terrific playmaking ability. He's capable of dissecting defensive looks and delivering the ball quickly. But on the flip side, his all-or-nothing habits will need to be tempered, as he tends to want the highlight-worthy play rather than just taking what the defense gives him too often. Williams finished the season with a 72.9% completion percentage on throws from inside the pocket (fifth-best in the FBS), and he threw for 3,633 yards, 30 touchdown passes and five interceptions in 2023.

 

---

3. Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina

Height: 6-4 | Weight: 230

Watch his tape, and you'll see five or six plays per game that make you marvel at Maye's overall ability. He has the arm strength to get the ball to all levels, completing 35 passes of 20-plus air yards -- third-most in the country. He has prototypical size and is also an underrated runner. Progression effectiveness is an area where Maye will need to improve, as he tends to hang onto reads too long and compound mistakes instead of getting through to the next available option. I see some similarities to Justin Herbert, though Maye's arm isn't quite as strong.

---

 

Yeah Maye definitely seems to be more ready for the NFL by reading that and Williams is more of a big play hit and miss guy. That will wow you when he hits and and going to make you scratch your head when he over does it. Stuff he can't get away with in the NFL. I'm in the take Maye camp and not give up valuable picks to jump up one spot for Williams. To me makes it even an easier choice to stay put at #2 

[Tress Is The Way]

20 minutes ago, FlyBigBeard said:

Yeah Maye definitely seems to be more ready for the NFL by reading that and Williams is more of a big play hit and miss guy. That will wow you when he hits and and going to make you scratch your head when he over does it. Stuff he can't get away with in the NFL. I'm in the take Maye camp and not give up valuable picks to jump up one spot for Williams. To me makes it even an easier choice to stay put at #2 

I agree with this. Maye has all the intangibles you are looking for in an NFL quarterback. He's got the height, he's got the arm strength, he's got the grit. Caleb may have the higher ceiling but if I were a betting man I'd say Maye will become the better NFL QB.

[redskinss]

19 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

We’ll have to get more creative then….

 

Bears get #2 so they can pair MHJ with Williams.

 

We get #9, Fields, their 3rd rounder and a future pick TBD.

In most cases a move from 9 to 2 especially in a quarterback rich draft requires two future firsts and a 2 minimum, sometimes a touch more.

With maye and Daniels there this year it'd probably be two future firsts and seconds or a second and third.

Even if the TBD is a first we'd be getting robbed.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

That 2nd rounder is essentially a late 1st rounder.

 

 

This is my favorite stupid argument in all of sports.

 

When does the second round stop being the extended first round?

 

Is it the same pick in each subsequent round where the round actually becomes the round?

 

What happens when the supplemental picks kick in? Does that mean that the sixth round is just the sixth round or is the first pick of the sixth round still part of the fifth round?

 

I demand tp see your work.

[88Comrade2000]

Whoever trades for Justin will regret it.  He’s not that good.

[ThatNFLChick]

17 minutes ago, Tress Is The Way said:

I agree with this. Maye has all the intangibles you are looking for in an NFL quarterback. He's got the height, he's got the arm strength, he's got the grit. Caleb may have the higher ceiling but if I were a betting man I'd say Maye will become the better NFL QB.

 

How exactly do tou measure "grit"? 

[formerly4skins]

5 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

How exactly do tou measure "grit"? 

Same as moxie and pornography, i think...you just know it when you see it.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

24 minutes ago, Tress Is The Way said:

I agree with this. Maye has all the intangibles you are looking for in an NFL quarterback. He's got the height, he's got the arm strength, he's got the grit. Caleb may have the higher ceiling but if I were a betting man I'd say Maye will become the better NFL QB.

 

You don't know what "intangble" means, do you?

[Renegade7]

19 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

This is my favorite stupid argument in all of sports.

 

When does the second round stop being the extended first round?

 

Is it the same pick in each subsequent round where the round actually becomes the round?

 

What happens when the supplemental picks kick in? Does that mean that the sixth round is just the sixth round or is the first pick of the sixth round still part of the fifth round?

 

I demand tp see your work.

 

This is your favorite? You need to get out more : )

 

That high in the second round you basically right there for anyone people are shocked didn't get taken in the first, imo.

 

That's all the notes I got, no science behind it. 

 

I don't think this logic makes sense past the my example regarding jus being outside the first round, that's the money round.  A high 4th rounder is a 4th rounder, people debating otherwise I may look sideways at, too.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is your favorite? You need to get out more : )

 

That high in the second round you basically right there for anyone people are shocked didn't get taken in the first, imo.

 

That's all the notes I got, no science behind it. 

 

I don't think this logic makes sense past the my example regarding jus being outside the first round, that's the money round.  A high 4th rounder is a 4th rounder, people debating otherwise I may look sideways at, too.

 

Okay, but then.... what if you only have 14 prospects graded as first rounders? Is pick 15 the second round now?

 

If we are arguing that every 32 picks is a round, does that mean the fourth round is only the fourth round for a few picks because of the damn conditionals (as pointed out above)?

 

At the end of the day, a first rounder is a first rounder.

 

You can get a first round talent in a rich draft class in the second round, but it's still a second round pick. Why? Contract. And math. Contract and math. 

[Warhead36]

I wouldnt sweat the shotgun stuff. Most modern NFL offenses are in shotgun a lot of the time now. Its just a function of the times. The problem with EB’s offense was that the run game wasnt married to the pass game. We were super predictable when we ran it. 

[ThatNFLChick]