ThatNFLChick Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 9 minutes ago, mh86 said: I think the point they’re trying to make without actually stating the point is they were overlooked as being the best in their class? Not really. SIP posted an article here about where scouts missed and one of the points was people were so focused on assuming "well I didn't see them do a lot of it so he can't do it". It happened with Stroud, the knock on him was that he couldn't handle pressure, everyone swore he would struggle, because he didn't deal with a ton of it because of the line and calling at Ohio State. It was his main knock and he handled it very well in the NFL. A lot of people missed on Herbert because he wasn't asked to make certain throws, it was a lot of short stuff and dump offs, a super low air yards per attempt in the Oregon system so some assumed he couldn't air it out and had Tua above him for that reason. It's why Benjamin Allbright (and countless others) say scouts have learned and teams will be higher on someone like JJ McCarthy. They're not assuming he can't do things because he didn't do much of it at Michigan. Edited January 29 by ThatNFLChick 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Just now, ThatNFLChick said: Not really. SIP posted an article here about where scouts missed and one of the points was people were so focused on assuming "well I didn't see them do a lot of it so he can't do it". It happened with Stroud, the knock on him was that he couldn't handle pressure, everyone swore he would struggle, because he didn't deal with a ton of it because of the line and calling at Ohio State. It was his main knock and he handled it very well in the NFL. A lot of people missed on Herbert because he wasn't asked to make certain throws, it was a lot of short stuff and dump offs, a super low air yards per attempt in the Oregon system so some assumed he couldn't air it out and had Tua above him for that reason. It's why Benjamin Allbright say scouts have learned and will be higher on someone like JJ McCarthy. They're not assuming he can't do things but more looking at what he does do well. I don't think it's necessarily an assumption, but giving it a fair amount of weight when evaluating. I'd guess that for every guy who goes to the NFL and bucks the trend by being able to do things in the NFL that he wasn't asked to do in college, there's probably at least one guy who doesn't and still struggles with those things in the pro game. So it's going to be mostly up in the air whether the guy will be able to or not. Some teams will take that risk and lose, some will take it and win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 3 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: It's why Benjamin Allbright (and countless others) say scouts have learned and teams will be higher on someone like JJ McCarthy. They're not assuming he can't do things because he didn't do much of it at Michigan. Yep. And McCarthy has played under center and used a ton of PA. More experience in a pro style offense and handling the calls than the higher rated guys. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) Wrong thread. Edited January 29 by HOF44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mh86 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 3 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: Not really. SIP posted an article here about where scouts missed and one of the points was people were so focused on assuming "well I didn't see them do a lot of it so he can't do it". It happened with Stroud, the knock on him was that he couldn't handle pressure, everyone swore he would struggle, because he didn't deal with a ton of it because of the line and calling at Ohio State. It was his main knock and he handled it very well in the NFL. A lot of people missed on Herbert because he wasn't asked to make certain throws, it was a lot of short stuff and dump offs, a super low air yards per attempt in the Oregon system so some assumed he couldn't air it out and had Tua above him for that reason. It's why Benjamin Allbright say scouts have learned and will be higher on someone like JJ McCarthy. They're not assuming he can't do things but more looking at what he does do well. I see, my apologies for the confusion and thanks for clarifying. It’s definitely tough to grade someone on something they don’t do often. Is it because they’re not good at it, is it part of the scheme, etc. too many variables to make it easy to evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico926 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 minute ago, mistertim said: I don't think it's necessarily an assumption, but giving it a fair amount of weight when evaluating. I'd guess that for every guy who goes to the NFL and bucks the trend by being able to do things in the NFL that he wasn't asked to do in college, there's probably at least one guy who doesn't and still struggles with those things in the pro game. So it's going to be mostly up in the air whether the guy will be able to or not. Some teams will take that risk and lose, some will take it and win. Here you go. Plenty of throws across the middle, tight window throws over the middle and on the edges, and dimes throwing on the run. Not giving any timestamps though. Find them yourself. Just now, pico926 said: Here you go. Plenty of throws across the middle, tight window throws over the middle and on the edges, throws with anticipation, and dimes throwing on the run. Not giving any timestamps though. Find them yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 3 minutes ago, pico926 said: Here you go. Plenty of throws across the middle, tight window throws over the middle and on the edges, and dimes throwing on the run. Not giving any timestamps though. Find them yourself. No, I think you're not going to timestamp because you probably haven't even watched it. But I'm not lazy so I'll actually watch the whole thing at some point soon and provide timestamps for any tight window over the middle throws. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico926 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Just now, mistertim said: No, I think you're not going to timestamp because you probably haven't even watched it. But I'm not lazy so I'll actually watch the whole thing at some point soon and provide timestamps for any tight window over the middle throws. Oh I watched the whole thing bud. I don't give BS takes without info to back it up like others. Watch for yourself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 minute ago, pico926 said: Oh I watched the whole thing bud. I don't give BS takes without info to back it up like others. Watch for yourself. Cool. You go back through and provide your timestamps, and I'll provide mine, and then we'll compare notes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 minute ago, mh86 said: I see, my apologies for the confusion and thanks for clarifying. It’s definitely tough to grade someone on something they don’t do often. Is it because they’re not good at it, is it part of the scheme, etc. too many variables to make it easy to evaluate. No worries! The basic lesson was beware of talking in absolutes about what QBs can't do just because they haven't done a lot of it. Dig more into it. It seems to be the reason nearly every analysts has JJ McCarthy going way higher than regular online folks 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan66 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Warhead36 said: Yeah, I dont want the next Lamar. The next Lamar plays for the Colts, there is not one in the Draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico926 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 4 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: No worries! The basic lesson was beware of talking in absolutes about what QBs can't do just because they haven't done a lot of it. Dig more into it. It seems to be the reason nearly every analysts has JJ McCarthy going way higher than regular online folks I really like McCarthy. Has a great toolkit and is proven winner. He will climb up the boards post pro day as we get closer to the draft. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klwilkins1977 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Whether we agree or not I love you guys and hope we all get to celebrate together next season... cuz whether we get the coaches or players we want or not, we all want the same thing: This team to fn win! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 34 minutes ago, mistertim said: So that goes back to my point. At least we've seen those guys do it pretty consistently. Maybe for Maye (though certainly he's been criticized for appearing to have tunnel vision at times), but does it really apply to Williams? For starters, I don't think Riley's system asked Williams to do lot of high level NFL type timing/anticipation execution to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 I hope a couple of the peeps pounded some protein before this workout 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 9 minutes ago, klwilkins1977 said: Whether we agree or not I love you guys and hope we all get to celebrate together next season... cuz whether we get the coaches or players we want or not, we all want the same thing: This team to fn win! Just want to point out that I don't actually dislike this comment at all. I just gave it a thumbs down for the lulz since you were systematically going through and giving all of mine thumbs down earlier. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klwilkins1977 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 7 minutes ago, mistertim said: Just want to point out that I don't actually dislike this comment at all. I just gave it a thumbs down for the lulz since you were systematically going through and giving all of mine thumbs down earlier. I don't have to like you takes to respect your fandom. At the end of the day, we all LOVE the same team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 I dont hate Daniels. Under Ben Johnson he could be a superstar. I just think his red flags are a much bigger cause for concern than others think and him being an older prospect means his ceiling isnt quite as high as you think. But he’s absolutely a tremendous prospect. If we were picking 3rd Id be thrilled to take him. But I just see too much RG3 in him and dont wanna fall foe that trap again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 56 minutes ago, Hooper said: Yep. And McCarthy has played under center and used a ton of PA. More experience in a pro style offense and handling the calls than the higher rated guys. I’d love to try and trade down and take McCarthy, he’s a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Look at how the Lions are built. If they think McCarthy or whoever is up there with Daniels and Maye, they might trade back and work on building the line. You never know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klwilkins1977 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Is it time for the Niners to jettison Shannahan? He can't get over the playoff hump... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico926 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 minute ago, Hooper said: Look at how the Lions are built. If they think McCarthy or whoever is up there with Daniels and Maye, they might trade back and work on building the line. You never know. I wouldn't be mad at that if the brass believes in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 19 minutes ago, Hooper said: Look at how the Lions are built. If they think McCarthy or whoever is up there with Daniels and Maye, they might trade back and work on building the line. You never know. If they truly have him graded close to the other guys. then yeah I'm all for it. I just don't want a trade down for the sake of trading down and taking a lesser prospect. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Just now, mistertim said: If they truly have him graded close to the other guys. then yeah I'm all for it. I just don't want a trade down for the sake of trading down and taking a lesser prospect. Yeah Im tired of giving up on sure fire blue chippers 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjinhan Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 57 minutes ago, Hooper said: Look at how the Lions are built. If they think McCarthy or whoever is up there with Daniels and Maye, they might trade back and work on building the line. You never know. I am with you. i am fully confident that if Mahomes started his career on Washington’s this year with the OL and defense that we had… i think there is a high chance that he wouldn’t have reached his potential 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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