The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mac8887]

Just now, Rufus T Firefly said:

I guess we can talk about the possibility of a GM doing something crazy, but people thinking the Bears are going to pass on Caleb Williams to stick with Justin Fields are definitely planning on a major, like Douglas vs Tyson level upset. 

I think they could, Caleb's stock has been slipping a little in some mock drafts

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I guess we can talk about the possibility of a GM doing something crazy, but people thinking the Bears are going to pass on Caleb Williams to stick with Justin Fields are definitely planning on a major, like Douglas vs Tyson level upset. 

But it puts Fields in play for a trade.  Somebody’s going to trade for him.  

[PeterMP]

I'm now they need to take a QB somewhere in the draft or get a young guy from FA in hopes that they can get a guy that for some reason just didn't develop elsewhere (though there is nobody on the FA list that I'd be excited about).  Not necessarily at the top but if by the 5th round they haven't taken a QB they need to grab the best QB that is still on the board.

[Rufus T Firefly]

6 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I think they could, Caleb's stock has been slipping a little in some mock drafts

Don't really care what a few people on the internet think. Williams cried after his dream of winning a title was ruined and there is some nonsense about him demanding something that would be illegal to ask for, so he has "attitude problems." It's all nonsense. 

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But it puts Fields in play for a trade.  Somebody’s going to trade for him.  

Someone can go ahead and do that. 

[mac8887]

3 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Don't really care what a few people on the internet think. Williams cried after his dream of winning a title was ruined and there is some nonsense about him demanding something that would be illegal to ask for, so he has "attitude problems." It's all nonsense. 

Someone can go ahead and do that. 

All I'm saying is there is a chance maye goes before him, and I believe after the combine and pro day that jayden daniels will be right there with the 2 of them. But more than likely caleb will go first

[zCommander]

If you are saying Howell is short and that is why the balls are batted away then you better not pine for Caleb Williams as he is also 6' 1".

[Daniel.redskins]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

If you are saying Howell is short and that is why the balls are batted away then you better not pine for Caleb Williams as he is also 6' 1".

I agree. If we go QB, let's get someone with size. I like Maye and Daniels better than Williams anyways.  

[mac8887]

Just now, zCommander said:

If you are saying Howell is short and that is why the balls are batted away then you better not pine for Caleb Williams as he is also 6' 1".

Caleb has like a 4 inch reach on Howell I believe and that can make a huge difference in ball trajectory. Plus he is much better at creating space for himself in the pocket and has quicker separation from defenders to open passing lanes, so the problem shouldn't be as bad with caleb williams, but you are right it does concern me with him, and bo nix

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I actually prefer Maye to Williams.  But I’d tread lightly making bold projections off what he can do in the ACC.

 

 

[Conn]

7 minutes ago, zCommander said:

If you are saying Howell is short and that is why the balls are batted away then you better not pine for Caleb Williams as he is also 6' 1".

Unless you believe that maneuvering the pocket and finding throwing lanes because you know exactly where everyone is and should be on the field, Brees-style, is a skill.
 

(I’m not taking a stance on this issue, simply pointing out that height alone does not decide this issue. It doesn’t matter that they’re the same height if you see a way to mitigate it in one guy’s skillset and not the other’s) 

[zCommander]

6 minutes ago, Conn said:

Unless you believe that maneuvering the pocket and finding throwing lanes because you know exactly where everyone is and should be on the field, Brees-style, is a skill.
 

(I’m not taking a stance on this issue, simply pointing out that height alone does not decide this issue. It doesn’t matter that they’re the same height if you see a way to mitigate it in one guy’s skillset and not the other’s) 

 

You are right skill set matters over height sometimes. Plenty of less taller QB have been successful in NFL. Wilson and Hurts for example as well. Howell's balls don't get tipped a lot though was my point. The OL being pushed into Sam's face is why the balls are getting tipped. Field a better OL and some of these issue will just go away. For what it is worth, even the taller QBs balls get tipped from time to time. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The internet is supposed to be filled with that stuff when the offense is averaging 10 or less a game.
 

Sam absolutely has some mind bogglers on his resume though.  There’s literally no point in choosing that throw.

Edited December 18, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[CapsSkins]

I compiled our game-by-game points scored against opponents, with a view of those opponents' average points allowed ranking. I know offensive production is about much more than just the QB, but here's the data:

 

20 points on #31 ranked Cards (allowing 26.9 per game) (W)
35 points on #30 ranked Broncos (allowing 25.1 per game) (W)
3 points on #4 ranked Bills (allowing 18.1 per game) (L)
31 points on #28 ranked Eagles (allowing 24.7 per game) (L)
20 points on #22 ranked Bears (allowing 23.5 per game) (L)
24 points on #8 ranked Falcons (allowing 19.9 per game) (W)
7 points on #24 ranked Giants (allowing 24.1 per game) (L)
31 points on #28 ranked Eagles (allowing 24.7 per game) (L)
20 points on #16 ranked Patriots (allowing 21.4 per game) (W)
26 points on #25 ranked Seahawks (allowing 24.5 per game) (L)
19 points on #24 ranked Giants (allowing 24.1 per game) (L)
10 points on #5 ranked Cowboys (allowing 18.9 per game) (L)
15 points on #14 ranked Dolphins (allowing 21.0 per game) (L)
20 points on #19 ranked Rams (allowing 22.1 per game) (L) (13 points attributable to Brissett)

 

In only five games did we score more points than that opponent allows on average:

 

Broncos (#30 - scored 9.9 over their average allowed)

Eagles (#28 - scored 6.3 over their average allowed)

Falcons (#8 - scored 4.1 over their average allowed)

Eagles (#28 - scored 6.3 over their average allowed)

Seahawks (#25 - scored 1.5 over their average allowed)

 

It's a lot of numbers to say Sam's better performances have come against teams who give up a lot of points (Broncos, Eagles, Seahawks) and the Falcons in a game where Ridder threw three interceptions.

 

We've all seen him show flashes and make us think he could be the guy, but by and large those flashes have been against lower-ranked defenses. It's worth noting given his recent struggles against better competition.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Ended up making a big play here but there was an even bigger one available. 
 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Idk, I don’t love throwing to Williams there.  

[Conn]

14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The internet is supposed to be filled with that stuff when the offense is averaging 10 or less a game.
 

Sam absolutely has some mind bogglers on his resume though.  There’s literally no point in choosing that throw.

You’ve posted this a lot this season, and I’m not saying you’re wrong…but it’s also possible that there just aren’t as many people going through the trouble of breaking down our bad offense on a **** ass team to parse out these play-by-play misses and such. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Idk, I don’t love throwing to Williams there.  

He’s turned loose. It was a bust on their part. 
 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Conn said:

You’ve posted this a lot this season, and I’m not saying you’re wrong…but it’s also possible that there just aren’t as many people going through the trouble of breaking down our bad offense on a **** ass team to parse out these play-by-play misses and such. 

There’s a ton of stuff on Twitter every single week.  There’s QB School, which to be fair I’m not sure he’s covered Howell since week 10.  But there’s still plenty of cut ups every week, no matter how awful an offense or QB is.  
 

This has been going on forever as well.  I’m sure you recall the 2013 and 2014 offenses and all the damning tape on Griffin.  Haskins had a lot bad tape out there.  I’ve been going out and seeking this stuff most every week, and of all the guys we’ve lined up - Sam has the least amount of bad film.  A lot of what we’ve been doing is DOA, which is why I’ve said that I still have no idea how good or bad he is individually.  

[FootballZombie]

None of our backs not named Gibby have shown to have the hands to reliably catch a pass 30 yards downfield. Not even B-Rob.

Unless that is G-Money, dude was not a real option.

 

That would have been comparable to Mahomes throwing a pass to K. Toney.

 

 

 

And I agree with BFS, if there was meat being consistently left on the bone we would see it every week, just like the examples above. Instead we are seeing the opposite with constant reminders of how players are not getting open with bad separation scores or how this team has some of the highest "perfectly covered rate" plays in the NFL.

[mac8887]

7 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

None of our backs not named Gibby have shown to have the hands to reliably catch a pass 30 yards downfield. Not even B-Rob.

Unless that is G-Money, dude was not a real option.

 

That would have been comparable to Mahomes throwing a pass to K. Toney.

 

 

 

And I agree with BFS, if there was meat being consistently left on the bone we would see it every week, just like the examples above. Instead we are seeing the opposite with constant reminders of how players are not getting open with bad separation scores or how this team has some of the highest "perfectly covered rate" plays in the NFL.

Take command instant reaction podcast talked last night about meat being meat being left on the bone and says there has been plenty. Pointing out bad timing by howell, and an unwillingness to throw to nfl open receivers and instead holding the ball unless a player is wide open. They say its been happening all year

[DJHJR86]

Can the title of this thread get edited?  

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

The principle of building a roster and then adding the franchise QB last seems so idealistic to me, it seems to get lost in that fantasy that by the time you’ve built any kind of decent roster it makes getting one in the draft near impossible unless you give RG3 level trade bait or pay over the odds in FA

 

If Howell isn’t the QB of the future get aggressive for one of these coming out this year

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Can the title of this thread get edited?  

To what, Howell if you like Brisket?

[DJHJR86]

16 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

To what, Howell if you like Brisket?

 

That works for me.