The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Also Ben and the local media are idiots about constantly grilling EB about play calling.  
 

Same thing happened to Reid in Philly when he was hired.  
 

Media was all “run the ball” and Reid was “hold my beer while I go to 4 NFC championship games, a SB and become the Eagles winningest coach of all time.  Oh, then hold my beer while I become the Chiefs winningest coach of all time.”

 

 

Why would you want this?  Just wondering?  If it happens, it happens but why are you rooting for EB to fail and bad stuff come out about him?

 

Ron and Jack have been here for 4 years and have pathetic track records.  
 

I just don’t understand the hate.  It started immediately from a small pocket and hasn’t stopped at all.  

Bieniemy equals Andy Reid? I guess he’s even better since he passes even more than him?

 

I gather that’s your choice for HC? 
 

Again I wouldn’t hate it as a coordinator, I am agnostic about him being the offensive coordinator, i like some of what I’ve seen, and also dislike some of it, but for me I’ve seen enough about not wanting him as HC 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bieniemy equals Andy Reid? I guess he’s even better since he passes even more than him?

 

I gather that’s your choice for HC? 
 

Again I wouldn’t hate it as a coordinator, I am agnostic about him being the offensive coordinator, i like some of what I’ve seen, and also dislike some of it, but for me I’ve seen enough about not wanting him as HC 

Yeah, I didn't say that.  Never have said it, in fact.  

 

I don't have an opinion any which way on HC at the moment.  Haven't really given it a lot of thought because there are still 2 months to go before it becomes a thing. I know it can't be Ron.  And it's not going to be Belichick.  That's about as far as I've gotten.  

 

But the similarity of coverage for early Reid and now first year Bieniemy is absolutely shocking.  The idiot Philly media would have run Reid out after year 1 and 2 because of his refusal to run the ball.  Early Reid took a ton of heat for it.  It wasn't until he really established the fact he knew what he was doing and they just kept winning when people backed off. Remember, when Reid was hired in Philly, he wasn't even GB's OC.  He was the QB coach.  He wasn't a play caller either. So he was roundly criticized for passing too much for years.  

I also don't think you can judge a coach, just about any coach, Head Coach or coordinator, off of a partial year implementing a new system.  I think it takes longer.  And if it's the first time you're doing it, well, there is a learning curve for coaches as well.  

 

I have no idea if EB would be a good HC or not.  I do think he's a better coordinator than a lot of folks give him credit for.  Is he Reid?  Certainly not yet.  Could he develop into a really solid OC, and have a mind-meld with Howell?  Maybe.  

 

I push back on what I think is over the top coverage and takes. And ignorant takes.  Also, the more I listen to Standig, the more I think he actually knows Basketball a whole hell of a lot better than football.  And I think he likes talking/writing Wizards more than Commanders, but his job for the Athletic is to cover the Commanders. I think he's really struggling with covering the football aspect of the team now that the Dan factor has gone away.  

 

JP has good sources.  However, his ability to actually analyze anything is poor.  Probably partially because he spends so much time with BMitch.  But he was all on board the Hallock train, and that alone should tell anybody who actually knows anything he has no idea what he's looking at. Mitch is a character and knows nothing.  But is fun to listen to, and JP and Mitch have good chemistry.

 

Bram ... I've been a fan for YEARS.  Thought he was the best on the beat (minus maybe Keim) from the time he started in the early 2000's.  However, he's also lost me a bit from some of his takes.  Keim and Bram did have a very interesting conversation on the topic about EB as a HC candidate. Clearly if the HOG hires an offensive guy, EB is gone, and the offensive guy would run the offense.  If they hire a defensive guy (unlikely in my opinion) and keep EB as OC, and the offense is top 10 (maybe again depending on how they finish the year) then he could be gone in another year and you're going to be switching system.  

 

I think, having thought about it as I write this post a bit, I don't want EB as the OC under a new HC.  Either hire an offensive guy and that's that, or promote EB to HC.  I don't want a defensive guy with EB as OC.  

 

I rather doubt EB gets the HC job here, FWIW.  And I'd be fine with that.  I don't think we're going to get Ben Johnson though.  If I had to bet, if he has choices, he's going to go to San Diego to coach Herbert. As I said, I really haven't given who else might be available much thought.  I just hope we hire somebody with a progressive, pass-first offensive system.  

 

If there was a chance we could trade for McVay if he for some reason wanted a change of scenery and out of LA, I'd do that in a heartbeat.  But that's not going to happen.  

Edited November 19, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[Skinsinparadise]

• @Voice_of_Reason you are lucky am at the game and don’t have the energy to respond to that essay 😃

In short I don’t think EB has been slammed much by the local media.

 

As for me I need to see the next 7 games to judge. I’ve seen some things I like and some I don’t. 
 

I’ve seen enough on the HC subject to decide I am out on him there. But as for OC here I am back and forth on it.  I need to see the whole season 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

• @Voice_of_Reason you are lucky am at the game and don’t have the energy to respond to that essay 😃

 

You giving me a hard time for writing war and peace length essay?  That’s rich!

 

 
 

Enjoy the game.  I’m on a plane.  So I’ll watch when I get home.  

[BleedBNG]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The I don’t know any of the opponents players stuff is a joke that is put on Twitter about different players and teens every week and it comes out later that it was never said.

 

Likewise I doubt Howell took those shots mentioned in that tweet above mine at the Giants 

Probably from a Giants fan who knows their defense is all they got and want to stir them up.

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Why would you want this?  Just wondering?  If it happens, it happens but why are you rooting for EB to fail and bad stuff come out about him?

 

Ron and Jack have been here for 4 years and have pathetic track records.  
 

I just don’t understand the hate.  It started immediately from a small pocket and hasn’t stopped at all.  

You misinterpreted my comments. I am not rooting for anyone to fail. It is just anticipation of what will be. I am very interested and want to hear the real behind the scene stories. That's all I was trying to say. 

[KDawg]

Who has more moxie, [REDACTED] or DeVito?

[Warhead36]

Howell was bad today but also had no help. 

[Llevron]

57 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Who has more moxie, [REDACTED] or DeVito?

DeVito was on a better team so I say the other guy 

[JSSkinz]

He has 6 games left to earn it, for Sam's sake he's gotta find a way to end the season sharp so he doesn't give the new FO any reason not to believe in him. He's playing against his own O line, questionable play calling and the defense so the deck is stacked against him. I dont get heavily into the X's and O's but the team around Sam doesn't seem to be conducive to QB development so he'll have to do it on his own.

[Warhead36]

I don't think there's any chance Howell isn't on the roster next year unless a team offers something absurd to trade for him, and if that's the case its because he's lights out to end the year in which case any new regime would want him to be the long term starter anyway.

 

He's on a rookie contract for two more years and is probably somewhere in the league average to mediocre tier right now, which is still not bad all things considered. 

 

Right now we're reliant on him to be amazing every week just to have a chance, and even then we've lost those games. Today he was bad, but the rest of the team also sucked(except maybe BRob, that's about it).

 

Other then the opener and maybe the Atlanta game, the team hasn't really bailed Howell out at any point this year.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Every week doesn't need to be a referendum. He's not up for a contract until the end of next year. That's why I keep emphasizing that there is no rush to make proclamations. 

 

He's not a top 10 QB. That is fine. The Josh Allen debate was ridiculous. We know that

He might be a top 16 QB. That's a huge win! He's basically a rookie.

He's easily the 3rd best QB drafted since 2021. That's a huge win.

 

Let's just chill and enjoy the ride. Today was a huge valley. He stunk. That's ok.That is what I would expect from a young borderline top 16 guy. Ups and downs. Let's live in reality.

[Warhead36]

26 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Every week doesn't need to be a referendum. He's not up for a contract until the end of next year. That's why I keep emphasizing that there is no rush to make proclamations. 

 

He's not a top 10 QB. That is fine. The Josh Allen debate was ridiculous. We know that

He might be a top 16 QB. That's a huge win! He's basically a rookie.

He's easily the 3rd best QB drafted since 2021. That's a huge win.

 

Let's just chill and enjoy the ride. Today was a huge valley. He stunk. That's ok.That is what I would expect from a young borderline top 16 guy. Ups and downs. Let's live in reality.

Yep same. When he's been good he's been REAL good. Like, top 5 in the league can carry a team good. Unfortunately we've only won one game in which he's been real good(the Denver game). When he's had reasonable help, we've won every time. 

 

But when he's bad he's REAL bad. Like, doesn't even belong in the league bad. HOWEVER, there hasn't been a game yet where he sucked but the rest of the team was good enough to win and it costs us the game. When he's bad the rest of the team is generally also bad. We haven't had instances of like say the Falcons against us where they move the ball at will but lose because the QB throws 3 picks. 

 

What's unfortunate is that this team basically needs him to be real good all the time to win. That's fine if you have a Mahomes or Allen or someone of that ilk, but Howell isn't on that level. He may never be on that level. And that's okay. Most guys don't. 

 

He's a 5th round rookie with now 11 career starts. You gotta help him out. Instead we have receivers dropping balls and fumbling. The defense, despite 9 sacks, getting shredded by a career UDFA who just two starts ago had a total of SIX yards(and the start before had 86). The special teams missed an XP and also fumbled a kick(and had a bunch of negative punt returns).

 

I wouldn't mind seeing him next year with a better staff and more talent on the OL and WR corps. But if a new regime decides to sell high on him, or go in another direction long term but keep him as a short term starter to remain competitive, I'm okay with that too. 

 

There is no need to anoint him one way or another. 

 

 

[sjinhan]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Howell was bad today but also had no help. 

i know he had those picks but like you said Sam had no help.   I cant remember a season where we had so many drops.  Even in the past 20 miserable years, these drops are just getting out of control.

 

Definitely Sam was pressing today with these forced throws but just give him a decent RT and LT then I think most of his pick issues go away.  Just go LT and RT among 2 of the 3 picks and then continue to build from there.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Warhead36]

EB is bad too. Maybe not Del Rio bad but still bad. He can't scheme WRs open and wastes too many plays throwing to the likes of Dyami Brown and Byron Pringle and John Bates. He's also slow at adjusting. And his situational playcalling is trash. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Incredible that we could pass this much and still somehow not win.

 

Imma have to fall back and reevaluate everything I’ve learned about the game in my 54 years.  

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

While I like a fair bit of what I've seen, 3 of Sam's 4 truly poor performances have come in games where the expectation has been at its highest.

 

I don't necessarily want us to aggressively try and draft a QB in round 1, but what I do want is for ownership to empower any new GM / HC to make that decision rather than telling them if they sign here its Howell or nothing.

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

While I like a fair bit of what I've seen, 3 of Sam's 4 truly poor performances have come in games where the expectation has been at its highest.

 

I don't necessarily want us to aggressively try and draft a QB in round 1, but what I do want is for ownership to empower any new GM / HC to make that decision rather than telling them if they sign here its Howell or nothing.

 

Any smart GM or HC would know or should know that drafting a QB instead of players to protect the said QB is not going to be any different than what Sam is going through right now.

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

Any smart GM or HC would know or should know that drafting a QB instead of players to protect the said QB is not going to be any different than what Sam is going through right now.

 

They would also have the option of spending cap space on the O line.

 

We also need to go careful giving Sam a complete free pass because of the O line, its a big part of it sure, but only a part.

Edited November 20, 2023 by BrentMeisterGeneral

[Est.1974]

Poor outing for Howell. However he’s  still got enough about his play to suggest he’s a good one. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

Poor outing for Howell. However he’s  still got enough about his play to suggest he’s a good one. 

Ya. I just don’t think we can get a real read on Howell until he has a line to protect him.

 

I think we’ve seen enough to suggest he’s the guy for next year (and what I mean by that is that a new coach coming in will be okay, at least for a year, with running with Howell while they correct a ton of other glaring issues).

 

But beyond that I just don’t think we know. Our OL is abysmal.

7 minutes ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

 

They would also have the option of spending cap space on the O line.

 

We also need to go careful giving Sam a complete free pass because of the O line, its a big part of it sure, but only a part.

There aren’t many FA OL available, so they don’t have that much of an option. And remember, they’d still need to “pick” us.

[Est.1974]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

There aren’t many FA OL available, so they don’t have that much of an option. And remember, they’d still need to “pick” us.

The current options re OL in 2024 free agency aren’t great are they. Think we need to invest with at least 2 high value picks via the draft.

 

Oh and why didn’t we trade Brissett for that 6th rounder we were offered. Self preservation at its worst.

[Skinsinparadise]

Listened to the Junkies who said they listened to Logan Paulsen who said the Giants baffled the offense by changing their game plan from the first game. Baiting them to prepare for the previous plan and reversing it.

 

By the way Logan said the exact same thing last year which is the coaches prepared for the Giants game plan from game 1 but the Giants switched it up in game 2 and threw them off. 

 

So in game 1 this year the Giants blitzed like mad. So this time they faked blitzed and dropped their guys into coverage and the team wasn’t ready for that. And Logan apparently said their front 4 did enough to pressure this offense without having to blitz much.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Skinsinparadise