The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

 

He doesn’t eat Steak.  He can never be the guy in the NFL.  Chicken Nuggets are for wussies.   

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

Does anyone here just want to see Sam develop the rest of the season but also see us lose? A lot of fans of crappy teams like us, say losing for the better draft pick is much better. I definitely understand their rationale but at the same time, I can't actively cheer for the opponent. I can't jump off the couch and scream go go go, as Barkley rips off a huge 50 yard run. Even if in the back of my mind, it would be better for our big picture rebuild. It's impossible for me to do that. I definitely hope to see Sam play amazing the rest of the season, but do I really want meaningless wins that lead to an 7 or 8 win non-playoff season? Hmm...to tank or not to tank...that is the question...

[RandyHolt]

30 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Does anyone here just want to see Sam develop the rest of the season but also see us lose? A lot of fans of crappy teams like us, say losing for the better draft pick is much better. I definitely understand their rationale but at the same time, I can't actively cheer for the opponent. I can't jump off the couch and scream go go go, as Barkley rips off a huge 50 yard run. Even if in the back of my mind, it would be better for our big picture rebuild. It's impossible for me to do that. I definitely hope to see Sam play amazing the rest of the season, but do I really want meaningless wins that lead to an 7 or 8 win non-playoff season? Hmm...to tank or not to tank...that is the question...

Its bad marketing for the NFL to let teams deliberately tank. It's not hockey where teams annually do massive selloffs of assets at the deadline. Regardless, those teams that sell off call up kids from Hershey who bust their ass and compete and prove blood sweat and tears and can prevail over fat cat lazy pretty boys. If it happens in the NFL we will have a lottery as well in which the Giants will always seem to get the first pick in a drawing held behind closed doors.  We only get 17 games - its impossible for me to hope for losses when its so easy to get to 7-9 and get a chance at a playoff win / extra game and play the spoiler. Arizona was said to be desperately trying to tank... they seem as good as us. Top picks yielded us RGMe and Chase.

 

 

[redskinss]

50 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Does anyone here just want to see Sam develop the rest of the season but also see us lose? A lot of fans of crappy teams like us, say losing for the better draft pick is much better. I definitely understand their rationale but at the same time, I can't actively cheer for the opponent. I can't jump off the couch and scream go go go, as Barkley rips off a huge 50 yard run. Even if in the back of my mind, it would be better for our big picture rebuild. It's impossible for me to do that. I definitely hope to see Sam play amazing the rest of the season, but do I really want meaningless wins that lead to an 7 or 8 win non-playoff season? Hmm...to tank or not to tank...that is the question...

I usually agree with this philosophy when you need a quarterback but it's looking less and less like that's the case for us this year.

We have 5 draft picks in the first 3 rounds and with what our needs are we can fill them if we draft smartly no matter what part of the round they're in.

 

Winning to build confidence for Sam is more important than the 10 or so draft slots we'll move up if we dont.

54 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

. I can't jump off the couch and scream go go go, as Barkley rips off a huge 50 yard run.

On a side note this I can cheer for because he's on my fantasy team.

😁

[burgngold fan]

For me, I find myself always rooting for the team to win during the game.  Always want too see the players do well.  But even with that.  I still want them to lose at this point!  So if they do lose,  it’s just a game closer till we clean house!  Not a believer in this regime.  Play for mediocrity that’s the best you will ever hope for.  Play the game as to not to lose!  You will lose more times than not.  Can’t accept moral victories anymore.  
 

so in essence will always root for our guys on game day!  But hoping for a loss before game day.  Until next season starts. 

[wit33]

 

4 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I'd still be concerned about neglect even if we had McCaffrey in the backfield.  That's how extreme Bieniemy's tendency to abandon the run has been.  It defines his coaching style so far.

 

He can get better, and he's at least significantly better than Scott Turner was.  But this just isn't a good system or offense so far.  I can't stand that we are letting Terry and Jahan go to waste, when slow ass John Bates and Logan Thomas and jags like Pringle/Dyami/Samuel are getting tons of work.

 

I won't trash Gibson or BRob too hard, because I think they are solid NFL rotation backs.  But they aren't weapons.  Gibson just isn't instinctive enough to why the most out of his tools and opportunities, and BRob isn't fast or creative enough to generate a lot of big plays.  His two big plays of the year were created for him by Sam Howell and bad scheme.  In theory, I'd love to get a big time back like you say because the RB room could certainly use an upgrade.  But I don't trust Bieniemy to properly utilize his weapons.

 

 

The alpha must emerge.
 

The coach is scheming up “life changing yards” on offense, go out and get them. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

He can get better, and he's at least significantly better than Scott Turner was.  But this just isn't a good system or offense so far.  I can't stand that we are letting Terry and Jahan go to waste, when slow ass John Bates and Logan Thomas and jags like Pringle/Dyami/Samuel are getting tons of work.

It’s the Reid system, which is one of the best in NFL history.  
 

I find it so interesting: we finally have a big boy offense, lead the NFL in passing yards, scoring is on the rise after an adjustment period, and fans still find things to complain about.  
 

Terry doesn’t get enough targets.

We don’t run the ball enough.  
Why is Bates getting targets?

Why would Pringle and Crowder ever be targeted over Terry and Dotson? 
Why has Dotson disappeared from the offense?

Sacks! Sacks! Sacks!

 

Instead of focusing on:

We have 6 players with over 250 yards of reviving, no other team has more than 4.

They have both quick game and explosive plays in the offense. 
Time of Possession is basically even.  
Howell is developing week to week in front of our eyes.

If one guy isn’t open, the ball goes to the guy who is more often than not.  

 

So much complaining for what is a top 10 offense at the moment.  We’ll see if that holds up, it might not.  
 

Especially since the sack problem seems to have been addressed in 3 ways: differnt play calling, better center play calling out protections, Howell not holding the ball nearly as long.  
 

Is it perfect?  No.  It can get better.  But the amount I’d complaining about the offense in general is really wild to me.  
 

I posted earlier my “nits to pick.”

- Too much running on second and long

- I hate the power draw for 1-2 yards in the first half which seems to be a tendency. 
- Don’t just use under-center for play action.  Run the ball from that formation also.  
- I don’t care if we run more, but we need to run better.  Which I think will lead to more plays which will lead to more runs.  
- Sit Wylie and play Lucas. 
 

So I have nits to pick also.  
 

But overall I’m thrilled to have a modern offense based on one of the best schemes in the last 30 years.  I won’t complain if we go out and get an offensive minded guy as HC and change scheme, but for now, it’s nowhere near as bad as the complaining would indicate. 

[mistertim]

16 hours ago, SpacePenguin said:

 

Howell's played well, but Bienemy's pass/run ratio is crazy. It's gotta be around 85% pass/ 15% run. It IS really weird. I get that a west coast offense utilizes some short passing in lieu of running the ball, but it's very extreme, even considering that.

 

Can't say it's been too bad overall, though. Really hard to judge when the defense is league worst level of bad. I'd say it's been hit or miss, skewing towards hit lately. No wonder the stats are wacky, though.

 

It's 66.3% pass and 33.7% run.

 

https://www.fftoday.com/stats/23_run_pass_ratios.html

 

It's enough for first in the NFL, but it's not astronomically higher than other pass heavy teams. The runner up is Cincy with 65.2 to 34.8 ratio. The closest comparison to us as far as run/pass ratio would be the Bucs during the Brady years. They were around the same ratio.

 

I think the issue with Bieniemy isn't necessarily just the raw run/pass ratio but how he does it. He seems to go in bursts instead of steadily peppering in running plays to keep defenses honest. He'll start out a game with a crazily heavy pass attack and then only later will start running a bunch for whatever reason.

 

I'd really like to see him be more balanced in general and not be so streaky. Though I do agree that such a high pass to run ratio is really putting a ton of pressure on what is essentially a rookie QB. That being said, Howell is handling it pretty damn well so far, considering the dumpster fire of the OL and defense in general.

[Rex Tomb]

5 hours ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

I can't jump off the couch and scream go go go, as Barkley rips off a huge 50 yard run. Even if in the back of my mind, it would be better for our big picture rebuild. It's impossible for me to do that.

Who in their right mind does that?  No, when Barkley rips a huge 50 yard run, my immediate reaction is a wry smile and a "hah, figures".  

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

It's 66.3% pass and 33.7% run.

 

https://www.fftoday.com/stats/23_run_pass_ratios.html

 

It's enough for first in the NFL, but it's not astronomically higher than other pass heavy teams. The runner up is Cincy with 65.2 to 34.8 ratio. The closest comparison to us as far as run/pass ratio would be the Bucs during the Brady years. They were around the same ratio.

 

I think the issue with Bieniemy isn't necessarily just the raw run/pass ratio but how he does it. He seems to go in bursts instead of steadily peppering in running plays to keep defenses honest. He'll start out a game with a crazily heavy pass attack and then only later will start running a bunch for whatever reason.

 

I'd really like to see him be more balanced in general and not be so streaky. Though I do agree that such a high pass to run ratio is really putting a ton of pressure on what is essentially a rookie QB. That being said, Howell is handling it pretty damn well so far, considering the dumpster fire of the OL and defense in general.

Cincy being so pass heavy infuriates me because I have Joe Mixon in fantasy. Even when Mixon is running very effectively like he was vs the Ravens on TNF, they inexplicably stop running the ball. Buffalo and Kansas City are the same way. It's why I stopped starting Pacheco for KC and I wouldn't recommend starting James Cook. Those teams act like running ing the ball is a complete afterthought.

1 hour ago, Rex Tomb said:

Who in their right mind does that?  No, when Barkley rips a huge 50 yard run, my immediate reaction is a wry smile and a "hah, figures".  

Well I assume the people who constantly preach that their teams should tank, do that. Do they still cheer for their team? I mean, how can you promote tanking ( which of course means losing ) but then cheer for your team to win on Sundays? It would be talking outta both sides of your mouth.

[Koolblue13]

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He doesn’t eat Steak.  He can never be the guy in the NFL.  Chicken Nuggets are for wussies.   

Brady went vegan for years

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Brady went vegan for years

And what did he actually accomplish in life?  

[Rex Tomb]

3 hours ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Well I assume the people who constantly preach that their teams should tank, do that. Do they still cheer for their team? I mean, how can you promote tanking ( which of course means losing ) but then cheer for your team to win on Sundays? It would be talking outta both sides of your mouth.

As one of my bosses many years ago said: there is no growth without the word "ow".  If losing means we get rid of the coaching staff, reset and reconfigure the front office, get a great position in this upcoming draft, then the only thing I can root for is that losses now lead to greatness down the road.  As a fan of this team for forty years, I'm tired of mediocrity.  We lost out on several good offensive linemen this past draft because we were just outside the range when they started coming off the board.  Several drafts ago, we had a chance to draft Christian Darrisaw at a position of need and went Jamin Davis instead.  Are you happy with that as a fan?  Get rid of the entire front office, scouting, coaching staff, etc.  Scorched earth and rebuild.  If it takes losses to get to that point, then so be it.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Rex Tomb

[Warhead36]

10 hours ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Does anyone here just want to see Sam develop the rest of the season but also see us lose? A lot of fans of crappy teams like us, say losing for the better draft pick is much better. I definitely understand their rationale but at the same time, I can't actively cheer for the opponent. I can't jump off the couch and scream go go go, as Barkley rips off a huge 50 yard run. Even if in the back of my mind, it would be better for our big picture rebuild. It's impossible for me to do that. I definitely hope to see Sam play amazing the rest of the season, but do I really want meaningless wins that lead to an 7 or 8 win non-playoff season? Hmm...to tank or not to tank...that is the question...

I understand the idea and for the long term it probably is in our best interest, but I also want Howell to be rewarded with wins for his good play and the season is too short for me to be looking at draft status in November.

[Daniel.redskins]

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I understand the idea and for the long term it probably is in our best interest, but I also want Howell to be rewarded with wins for his good play and the season is too short for me to be looking at draft status in November.

I agree. The media is not buying into Howell because of our record. Not that it really matters what others think. But whenever I try and tell other fans how good Howell is, they respond with he is not a winner. I'm getting tired of it, but the honest truth is that he needs wins to get recognition. 

[zCommander]

58 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And what did he actually accomplish in life?  

 

Hmmm... now you are making me think. Hold that thought and let me go look up some stats on him and get back to you. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

31 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Hmmm... now you are making me think. Hold that thought and let me go look up some stats on him and get back to you. 

There’s no need. By the time he went Vegan he was totally washed up. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Bieiniemy IMO has been up and down.  I don't love him the way some do here.  Don't hate him either -- not as down on him as some of his critics.

 

Do I think complementary football matters -- yes I do.  I know Rivera at least used to believe it does.  Gibbs did big time.  Bieiniemy doesn't seem to.

 

I've seen enough to think he'd be a dud HC hire in part about complementary football.   But if a HC wanted Bieiniemy as their offensive coordinator (I doubt they would though) I'd be cool with it.

 

As for Howell's success being a function of Bieineimy.  I doubt it.   But no way to know.  But I am a bit biased because I was high on Howell before Bieniemy existed.  If Bieniemy had Heinicke lets say playing like this, I'd be impressed. 

 

If I had to summarize Bieniemy so far as a play caller.  I like that he's pass heavy.  I do think he's a bit too pass heavy.  He had some good game plans. He has had some bad game plans.  I don't get the vibe that everyone on this offense digs him.  I do like that he's thrown Howell in the deep end of the pool. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for Howell's success being a function of Bieineimy.  I doubt it.   But no way to know.

 

Actually, if you look back to Howell's first game he was under Turner's offense. He looked and operated like he had done it before in the NFL. Hell even Ron was impressed lol. The way he ran, decisively, while bulldozing defenders on that TD run was really good. That was a function of Howell and not Turner. The same is this year as well. An OC can design the plays and call them but the QB still has to execute them. Jay Gruden said (paraphrasing here from memory) he doesn't have to have EB back next year, it might be nice for continuity sake, but it is not needed. To me it felt like Jay was saying Howell can run anyone's offense. 

 

Bill B. is not the same without Brady. Reid has won two SB with Mahomes but couldn't go beyond playoffs with Alex Smith. If you have a legit QB they will make any OC or HC look really good. 

 

You are right in thinking EB won't make a good HC. The yelling thing is over the top, along with his whole 3rd person thing (so annoying), and that is not a good thing to have if you are going to be in charge of more than just your unit. That won't work on a bigger scale and you will lose the whole team real quick and fired mid-season.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

 

You are right in thinking EB won't make a good HC. The yelling thing is over the top, along with his whole 3rd person thing (so annoying), and that is not a good thing to have if you are going to be in charge of more than just your unit. That won't work on a bigger scale and you will lose the whole team real quick and fired mid-season.

 

Agree.

 

When I start hearing in camp that not all the players dig EB.   When I hear Terry reference the lack of in game adjustments and Keim said he's not the only one there who feels that way.

 

Howell's rhetoric about EB comes off boiler plater.    

 

I think some want to romance this like Howell and EB are superclose, joined at the hip.  Like some who actually covered the team last year said about Zampese and Howell.   But it doesn't feel that way. 

 

Do people think really Bieineimy invented the quick game which they finally adapted in a heavier way recently and with Bieniemy realizing finally its a better way to deal with this porous O line that Bieniemy had a hand in creating -- that these points are so complex that the next HC will struggle to recoginze it?

 

Yeah his rhetoric and general approach about things do not come off like a HC.  I can see some why he was passed over in like 15 interviews, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.

 

When I start hearing in camp that not all the players dig EB.   When I hear Terry reference the lack of in game adjustments and Keim said he's not the only one there who feels that way.

 

Howell's rhetoric about EB comes off boiler plater.    

 

I think some want to romance this like Howell and EB are superclose, joined at the hip.  Like some who actually covered the team last year said about Zampese and Howell.   But it doesn't feel that way. 

 

Do people think really Bieineimy invented the quick game which they finally adapted in a heavier way recently and with Bieniemy realizing finally its a better way to deal with this porous O line that Bieniemy had a hand in creating -- that these points are so complex that the next HC will struggle to recoginze it?

 

Yeah his rhetoric and general approach about things do not come off like a HC.  I can see some why he was passed over in like 15 interviews, etc.

There will be EB believers based on Howell's stats. If he is relieved of duties in Washington, he will be a hot commodity in HC and OC searches. I think he will once again be looked past with many of the jobs he interviews for and ends up an OC some place.

 

I can't wait until the season is over and stories begin to leak from players and coaches about EB and for that matter, Ron and JDR. Some may get filthy but I figure overall, they will reinforce what many of us believe about the inner-workings of this organization.

 

Sam has now worked for two OC's even if one was in short order. Like @zCommanderstated, has flourished to some extent in both. I look forward to his progress in less dysfunctional setting with more thought and resources placed on his protection.

[BleedBNG]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

The I don’t know any of the opponents players stuff is a joke that is put on Twitter about different players and teens every week and it comes out later that it was never said.

 

Likewise I doubt Howell took those shots mentioned in that tweet above mine at the Giants 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

Absolutely no way that Howell said that stuff.  That above picture of Howell is from his Wednesday's presser.  Go listen to it, complete BS  

 

People posting this stuff are idiots.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by HigSkin

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The I don’t know any of the opponents players stuff is a joke that is put on Twitter about different players and teens every week and it comes out later that it was never said.

 

Likewise I doubt Howell took those shots mentioned in that tweet above mine at the Giants 

Also Ben and the local media are idiots about constantly grilling EB about play calling.  
 

Same thing happened to Reid in Philly when he was hired.  
 

Media was all “run the ball” and Reid was “hold my beer while I go to 4 NFC championship games, a SB and become the Eagles winningest coach of all time.  Oh, then hold my beer while I become the Chiefs winningest coach of all time.”

 

 

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I can't wait until the season is over and stories begin to leak from players and coaches about EB and for that matter, Ron and JDR. Some may get filthy but I figure overall, they will reinforce what many of us believe about the inner-workings of this organization.

Why would you want this?  Just wondering?  If it happens, it happens but why are you rooting for EB to fail and bad stuff come out about him?

 

Ron and Jack have been here for 4 years and have pathetic track records.  
 

I just don’t understand the hate.  It started immediately from a small pocket and hasn’t stopped at all.