The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Is this the official Sam Howell is the QB thread or folks really want to risk Kirk'n ourselves trying to get greedy???

His receivers weren’t getting open today, no running game and he was under duress all game. Yet he still almost pulled it off. 
 

Speaking for myself build around Howell as opposed to start over with a new QB. That much is becoming more clear every week 

[Skintime]

58 minutes ago, Veretax said:

I think that hit on sam before the TD to the knee was just dirty.

that clock didn't start on time.

why are our corners always so far off the receivers and always a step behind the cuts?

Betting on games?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That had to hurt

[petey hodge]

meanwhile in SF....   Bust Young got a half sack and two QB knockdowns. 

Not bad for a 3rd round pick!

Edited November 13, 2023 by petey hodge

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

[JSSkinz]

Before the season many thought we only needed a QB, now we have one and we're realizing that almost the entire rest of the team is suspect. From week to week it's really hard to decipher who is worth keeping on this team and how many holes we have to address. Sam will need a contract at the end of next year so we might not be able to go crazy in free agency.  As much as I like Allen and I know he's been playing with a tough injury all year his contract is up soon and we could use the picks, try to shop him.

 

We gotta stack the picks and hope whoever is making the decisions next year can hit at a high rate.

 

[The Consigliere]

9 hours ago, samy316 said:

We don’t have a shot a Caleb or Drake.  To me, those are the only two QB’s that are as close to can’t miss prospects as there are in the upcoming NFL draft.  There’s no other QB I’d draft after those two, if Howell finishes the year as a clearly defined starting QB, or even a top 10-15 QB numbers wise.  Penix, Nix, McCarthy and the other potential 1st Round QB’s aren’t going to be as good as Howell is right now.  In the case of Penix Jr. and Nix, they are already coming in older than Howell is right now.

 

I think our best course of action this offseason is to draft OL and/or TE early and often, and surround Howell with a capable line, so that he can excel even further moving forward.  We’re not going to be in line for Caleb Williams or Drake Maye, so we aren’t going to be able to draft any franchise level QB’s as good as those two are.

 

Depends on where we finish and where the Bears/Panthers picks land. If the Bears and Panthers have 1-2, they will definitely trade one, and I'd be in on it. It's also worth keeping an eye on the evolving slotting. What will Arizona do? I am assuming the Bears will pull the trigger on a QB, so would NE, but I'm not sure what NYG would do, or Arizona. Basically of the top 8 as of last week, 4 of them struck me as teams that would definitely pull the trigger on a QB, 4 were question marks (NYG, Arizona, Chicago 2nd pick, maybe the rams). 

 

I tend to agree that its looking less and less likely we'll be in range. But if we are and it lands w/a team interested in trading out, I would 100% consider it. Worth noting, today's data piled on more evidence that we've found our man. If he can stay healthy and keep it up, I would 100% assume the new FO will prefer to target OL, and other issues, throw a day 2 pick on a QB, or simply bring in another vet backup or something, and then if he craters next year, they'll look at QB in the lesser '25 class. But I will say, as a card carrying Howell fan since the '21-'22 winter, I'm not remotely against the guy, I wanted him, Willis or Corral back then, and viewed him as easily the value pick of value picks. I'm very, very happy to have the guy, but I don't think you're totally safe and stable w/a QB room that is him and his 11 starts, and a career backup behind him. Would make me nervous as hell going into '24 w/that as a new coach. On the other hand, the OL is what it is, and after this, it's hard to imagine my floor projection of win total, or Howell's performance is likely to play out barring injury. He's gonna find a way to win another 3 games I imagine, putting us at my projected season ceiling (7-10), rather than my expectation or floor. As such, one would imagine the pick will fall in the 8-14 zone. I remain flummoxed by what to expect from that December schedule, two teams that are a mess, the Rams, and Jets, and two teams that may already know their playoff slotting in the Niners and Dallas. A lot of potential variability there. So we could pick higher than I expect (as high as 5-7) or we could drop as low as 16 or worse if the early december games feature teams tanking, and the latter feature teams resting. It will also be a great test for Howell for a new FO: Here's what he did in December+ against the Cowboys twice, the Niners and the Jets defense, plus whats left of the once great rams D. Great CV for a new FO to check out. 

[HigSkin]

 

[Warhead36]

Hes a top 10 qb right now. A shame he isn’t being rewarded with win’s because of this trash D.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[The Consigliere]

To this point, in his career, he's 100% a franchise QB. Period. I'll sign on that. My concern is whether it sticks or not. I think you just need a lot of sample size, and with day 3 guys, the draft capital investment is so low, that FO's and staffs have a quick hook and a willingness to throw in the towel more easily. I'm not gonna be sold, sold, until probably 2 years worth of sample size, but as it is now, it's really the best performance we've seen by a drafted and developed quarterback since Sammy Baugh, and then more recently, RGIII's one season, and Cousin's career here (except its already obvious he has an "it" that Cousins lacked, we've got 4th quarter comebacks in like 5 different starts at this point, he aint a folding type, he does have games where he doesnt have it, but it's not a pressure thing). One of those weird things people haven't noticed with us historically speaking, is that we've never drafted and developed QB's at even the lowest levels of league history. We are the bottom of the barrell, it's Baugh and Cousins, and that's it, unless you buy Rypien, as a franchise type, I do not, considering he was only really a legit starter for four years, and was erratic as hell (I still remember the Jerry Rice anecdote at the pro bowl supposedly, looking at Gary Clark or Monk and asking them how they play w/this ---- after one of those classic Rypien into the dirt or wobbly over throws). So man are we ever do, and it definitely looks like he's "it". Fingers crossed that he can make it through this year healthy and prove it along the way. 

[Warhead36]

Howell can play. He absolutely belongs in the NFL as a starting QB. Now to what level he can ultimately reach remains to be seen. He has the talent to be a top 5 guy and I absolutely believe you can build a championship team around him.

 

The only concern is, will the new regime be as enthused about building around him? Or will they prefer trading up to get their own guy? We will not finish bad enough to pick one of the better QBs. But I really wanna see what Howell can do with a real modern day offensive mind and a GM that can build a legit roster around him instead of WRs that drop every other pass and can't beat man coverage and an OL that gives up free rushers every 3-4 plays.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

It felt like Sam was getting to his check downs/backs/TEs more quickly today. 
 

The kid looks more decisive every week. 

[Warhead36]

Just now, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

It felt like Sam was getting to his check downs/backs/TEs more quickly today. 
 

The kid looks more decisive every week. 

He seems to learn/adapt quite quick. Since the Bills game for example he really doesn't make very many bad throws. I don't think he had any today. He had the one bad one in New England last week, but for the most part he's nowhere near as reckless with the ball.

[D’Pablo]

Are we really still debating Sam Howell and whether he's our franchise QB? Flash in the pan QBs don't kill it behind bad (maybe mediocre now) offensive lines alongside skill position players who jog alongside opposing corners and safeties, and with defenses that escort opposing RBs and WRs to the endzone for tea. The guy isn't operating a pared down offense and he's fully going through his reads when allowed 3 seconds or more. He has a cannon and is more mobile than any QB we've ever had (including RG3, who had no lateral moves). If he stays healthy, he's our guy.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I would like to put in perspective what Howell is doing by comparing him to the last QB who played significant time here

 

Hallock exited with an apparent hamstring injury in the 4th quarter loss to the Cardinals.  
 

When he exited he was 8-15 for 55 yards.  That’s a yards per attempt of 3.7 with a completion percentage of 53%.  He did throw a TD and had no INTs

 

Thats the kind of Quarterbacking we’ve had in these parts for the better part of 30 years, with brief oasis of times with competent QB play (Brad Johnson, 1 year of Griffin, Kirk).

 

Anybody who’s not sold on Howell at least as the best young prospect we’ve had since Griffin is fooling themselves.  He’s a better prospect at this stage than Kirk because of his ability to extend plays.  
 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I bet that last touchdown throw to Dyami was one of those Big Time Throw thingies I’ve heard such good things about on here lately. 5.2% chance of completing that pass.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[zCommander]

I think I have seen enough. We need to sell the farm to get either Maye or Williams. Howell is just average. 

[Tyler Spiers]

23 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I bet that last touchdown throw to Dyami was one of those Big Time Throw thingies I’ve heard such good things about on here lately. 5.2% chance of completing that pass.

Unbelievable throw. And the side armed throw to the running back on the run was amazing as well. It was like a laser beam, got there so freakin' quick.

[The Consigliere]

43 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I would like to put in perspective what Howell is doing by comparing him to the last QB who played significant time here

 

Hallock exited with an apparent hamstring injury in the 4th quarter loss to the Cardinals.  
 

When he exited he was 8-15 for 55 yards.  That’s a yards per attempt of 3.7 with a completion percentage of 53%.  He did throw a TD and had no INTs

 

Thats the kind of Quarterbacking we’ve had in these parts for the better part of 30 years, with brief oasis of times with competent QB play (Brad Johnson, 1 year of Griffin, Kirk).

 

Anybody who’s not sold on Howell at least as the best young prospect we’ve had since Griffin is fooling themselves.  He’s a better prospect at this stage than Kirk because of his ability to extend plays.  
 

I think he has a clutch, gamer thing that Kirk didn't have, but that's more nebulous and theoretical. But at this point he's lead us from behind repeatedly, and rarely looked out of sorts when under lots of stress related pressure. He just seems to like it when a game turns into squeaky bum time. 

 

As a side note to another poster, our target separation for pass catchers has risen from 30th to 29th in the league lol, so it aint quite as bad as it was a short while ago lol. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by The Consigliere

[Warhead36]

Just now, The Consigliere said:

I think he has a clutch, gamer thing that Kirk didn't have, but that's more nebulous and theoretical. But at this point he's lead us from behind repeatedly, and rarely looked out of sorts when under lots of stress related pressure. He just seems to like it when a game turns into squeaky bum time. 

He's been really good in the clutch for sure. Three of our four wins we've been behind in the 2nd half. Granted the defense was more of the reason we won the Arizona game, but still. And then in two road games against winning teams he's led game tying TD drives. 

 

Howell is a prime example of why the QB win stat is stupid af. Howell has done everything in his power to win some of these games but the defense has let him down big time.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

The defense has been abysmal. Jack sucks.

[Warhead36]

If you were to tell me Howell would be top 5 in passing yards and TD passes after ten games I'd assume we would be no worse than 7-3 and possibly even better, competing for the NFC East and NFC.