The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[stoshuaj]

48 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Come on. The OL is garbage. But Howell clearly struggles with pocket awareness. Both can be a problem. 

what pocket?

[Conn]

29 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The Vikings have been absolutely tremendous tonight. They look fast and they are varying their route concepts and getting the ball out incredibly quickly. They are running plays to purposely get the ball out of Cousins’ hands because of Bosa.

 

Swing passes, screens, short crossers, one step fades, short motions to create space in man coverage. It’s been a clinic. 
 

It’s everything we don’t do with our offense.

 

They look fast, smooth and electric.

And they’ve lost Jefferson, and now Addison, and still mostly keep it moving. 

[Warhead36]

The worst thing is we had O'connell in our building and Rivera let him walk to bring in his buddy's kid Scotty Turner.

[Conn]

Mahomes is a freak and the game moves in slow motion for him, but look at this protection and what it allows him to do:

 

He’s historic-level special but on plays like this he literally gets to flip the settings to easy mode and toy with the defense because of his protection. 

[DJHJR86]

 

 

 

He's 1000% trying to use the "look we got a young promising QB here" to save his job.  It's totally unfair to Howell too.  Also, everyone is in agreement that the line sucks.  But couldn't some of these sacks which are attributed to the line be the QB calling the wrong protection?  We saw it with our eyes in 2015 when Cousins was named the starter over Griffin...the line magically got better.  

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

45 passes with no sacks?

 

 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

Davis is starting to blossom into a pretty good player but yeah I think we all said at the time that Darrisaw should have been the pick.

 

The debate was going to be Davis + Cosmi or Darrisaw + JOK. Well I think Darrisaw + JOK is easily winning that one(I don't know how good JOK has actually been this year but IIRC he was good as a rookie and he's part of a Browns D that is ranked a lot higher than ours).

[DJHJR86]

 

Haskins (RIP) through first 7 games compared to Howell.  Also went and looked up the numbers for Cousins, Griffin, and Jason Campbell through their first 7 starts.  Cousins had 9 sacks.  Griffin had 15.  Jason Campbell had 7.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Haskins (RIP) through first 7 games compared to Howell.  Also went and looked up the numbers for Cousins, Griffin, and Jason Campbell through their first 7 starts.  Cousins had 9 sacks.  Griffin had 15.  Jason Campbell had 7.

For the duress, Howell looks good numbers wise. The sacks are the biggest issue we need to fix.

[zCommander]

10 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The worst thing is we had O'connell in our building and Rivera let him walk to bring in his buddy's kid Scotty Turner.

 

Still he should have just kept Turner for further development of Howell.

 

 

 

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

For the duress, Howell looks good numbers wise. The sacks are the biggest issue we need to fix.

 

His turnovers are concerning, but they are more correctable than the sack issue.

[Koolblue13]

Epic Buffoon 

[HigSkin]

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

16 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Haskins (RIP) through first 7 games compared to Howell.  Also went and looked up the numbers for Cousins, Griffin, and Jason Campbell through their first 7 starts.  Cousins had 9 sacks.  Griffin had 15.  Jason Campbell had 7.

Considering Howell dropped back to pass 75 more times, the sack #’s aren’t as glaring.  Much better OL and at least the threat of running the ball for Haskins as well.  The turnovers also tie into the immense pressures he’s been facing. 
 

I know that sounds like a lot of excuses for Howell but they are valid.  It’s hard to really know what he’s capable of all that considered.

 

My expectation is the that the leaks start soon where EB and Ron start giving tidbits to the media that Sam isn’t calling the proper protections, not seeing the field, etc.  Which will complete the Washington QB cycle and and we’ll finally be able to flush the remaining remnants of Dan down the toilet.

 

 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

24 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

His turnovers are concerning, but they are more correctable than the sack issue.

Turnovers are going to happen when you drop back to pass as much as he does with one of the worst OLs in football. 

 

That doesn't absolve him. He's made some really bonehead plays. But the more you put the ball in an inexperienced QBs hands, the more sacks and turnovers you're going to wind up getting. 

[DJHJR86]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

that Sam isn’t calling the proper protections, not seeing the field, etc.

 

This could very well be the case on a lot of those sacks.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

This could very well be the case on a lot of those sacks.

I’m sure it’s occurred, but I doubt it’s a lot.  Too often we’ve got guys just getting manhandled one on one, playing patty cake with the defender.  

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

This could very well be the case on a lot of those sacks.

 

Could be. But the amount of literal whiffs we have aren't on bad protection calls, either. 

[FootballZombie]

Howell has to survive EB at this point.

 

Sucks, but betting money is still on him either getting injured, Ramsey'd or some wombo-combo of both.

We were starting to see signs of Ramsey-fication vs the Giants but Howell pulled himself back from the brink.

 

Now we gotta go up against Philly and if they put us in a blowout-scenario...

[philibusters]

7 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

This could very well be the case on a lot of those sacks.

 

From listening to Logan Paulsen who reviews the film and the beat guys like John Keim, there may be a few of those sacks when he didn't have the correct protection called, but most of the sacks are a lack of execution on the O-Line, TE's/RB's or Sam holding the ball too long.  When you give up 40 sacks in 7 games there probably is multiple things at play because if it was just one thing you probably address that enough that you would not be anywhere close to 40 sacks in 7 games.

 

I am still in the Sam Howell camp, but I probably do think he is the single biggest factor.    PFF puts 16 out of the 40 sacks on the O-Line, maybe 8 of the other ones are TE's or RB's, and Sam is probably responsible for about 16 himself.   If say Tom Brady were playing on this offense how many sacks would the offense have given up through 7 games.  I am guessing admittedly, but maybe like 11 or 12 which for Tom Brady would be an unusually high number for 7 games.  Tom Brady is an extreme example, for example last year with a shaky O-Line he only took 22 sacks in 17 games, whereas most NFL starters probably take 30+ sacks given the injuries the Bucs had on the O-Line.   So how many sacks do I think Taylor Heincke has on this offense through 7 games.   Probably somewhere in the low to mid 20's, maybe 24.  I definitely think a lot of it is on Howell.

 

On the other hand, I am still hoping a light comes on for Howell and he speeds up his processing and identifying coverages.    As he gets more comfortable, you can also add in things like more motion, which can make identifying the first read easier.  Logan Paulsen addressed that in a talk with John Keim, why not use more motion... the answer is motion make identifying the defensive coverage easier, but it puts more onto the plate of the QB.  It can change the reads and do a lot of other things.  Its a great option for a QB who is comfortable with an offense, but could overwhelm a young QB.  If Rivera and Bieniemy survive to next season, that is the type thing we could see in year 2 in the system.

[DJHJR86]

 

 

 

 

He was calling the wrong protections until the 4th quarter.  Glimmer of hope that he started to ID the blitzes.

 

[Koolblue13]

The key to beating Brady, was to hit him and make him uncomfortable, so he couldn't read the entire field.

 

Sam is getting bullied immediately every single game. Fix the line and the play calling and see how he does.

 

I'm sure if Brissett came in, he'd look good for a few weeks too, before becoming shell shocked.

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

From listening to Logan Paulsen who reviews the film and the beat guys like John Keim, there may be a few of those sacks when he didn't have the correct protection called, but most of the sacks are a lack of execution on the O-Line, TE's/RB's or Sam holding the ball too long.  When you give up 40 sacks in 7 games there probably is multiple things at play because if it was just one thing you probably address that enough that you would not be anywhere close to 40 sacks in 7 games.

 

I am still in the Sam Howell camp, but I probably do think he is the single biggest factor.    PFF puts 16 out of the 40 sacks on the O-Line, maybe 8 of the other ones are TE's or RB's, and Sam is probably responsible for about 16 himself.   If say Tom Brady were playing on this offense how many sacks would the offense have given up through 7 games.  I am guessing admittedly, but maybe like 11 or 12 which for Tom Brady would be an unusually high number for 7 games.  Tom Brady is an extreme example, for example last year with a shaky O-Line he only took 22 sacks in 17 games, whereas most NFL starters probably take 30+ sacks given the injuries the Bucs had on the O-Line.   So how many sacks do I think Taylor Heincke has on this offense through 7 games.   Probably somewhere in the low to mid 20's, maybe 24.  I definitely think a lot of it is on Howell.

 

On the other hand, I am still hoping a light comes on for Howell and he speeds up his processing and identifying coverages.    As he gets more comfortable, you can also add in things like more motion, which can make identifying the first read easier.  Logan Paulsen addressed that in a talk with John Keim, why not use more motion... the answer is motion make identifying the defensive coverage easier, but it puts more onto the plate of the QB.  It can change the reads and do a lot of other things.  It’s a great option for a QB who is comfortable with an offense, but could overwhelm a young QB.  If Rivera and Bieniemy survive to next season, that is the type thing we could see in year 2 in the system.

More than 16 of the sacks are on the offensive line. This is silly.

[RandyHolt]

I wish EB would dial up more screens on days we know Sam is going to be blitzed a lot.

 

The OL is so porous they are blocking like it is a screen play, as the DL just blow right by them early and often. So why fight it.

 

Token shout out again to Stromberg completely whiffing on his first snap. I think a midseason OL coaching change is in order or some other internal shake up. Our TEs coach or whoever it is. I miss the days when that corn fed rookie backup guard we drafted would be pressed into duty mid season and do just fine.

Edited October 24, 2023 by RandyHolt

[method man]

20 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I wish EB would dial up more screens on days we know Sam is going to be blitzed a lot.

 

The OL is so porous they are blocking like it is a screen play, as the DL just blow right by them early and often. So why fight it.

 

Token shout out again to Stromberg completely whiffing on his first snap. I think a midseason OL coaching change is in order or some other internal shake up. Our TEs coach or whoever it is. I miss the days when that corn fed rookie backup guard we drafted would be pressed into duty mid season and do just fine.

Stromberg is not a guard. The guy is a center and deserves a shot at some point this season