The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, skinsfan93 said:

I mostly agree with you but keep in mind, Heinicke has the equivalent of one full season of starting and didn’t play in a major college conference and is still learning. Not saying he’s the answer but I will give him a bit more slack. 
 

Cousins (and even more frustrating Jason Campbell) were check down charlies even in his 4th year with us and rarely took chances. 

 

If Heinicke had

 

A.  Average QB height

B.  Average QB accuracy

C.  Average arm strength

 

I'd be with you.  He's 29 years old and will be 30 next year.  Kirk and Jason have/had a major league NFL arm and size.  They started as projects but had the talent to blossom if they hit their stride.

 

With Heinicke to me its like saying to ignore his 85 MPH fastball and mediocre control and lets see if he develops.  To each their own but to my eyes ZERO shot Heinicke is the answer long term.  He doesn't have the talent.   The ceiling on Heinicke is obvious as heck.

 

But I am with the narrative that the dude has a lot of Rudy in him, where he will never be great, unlikely even ever average -- but he has moxie, heart and his teammates love him. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[ExoDus84]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If Heinicke had

 

A.  Average QB height

B.  Average QB accuracy

C.  Average arm strength

 

I'd be with you.  He's 29 years old and will be 30 next year.  Kirk and Jason /havehad a major league NFL arm and size.  They started as projects but had the talent to blossom if they hit their stride.

 

With Heinicke to me its like saying to ignore his 85 MPH fastball and mediocre control and lets see if he develops.  To each their own but to my eyes ZERO shot Heinicke is the answer long term.  He doesn't have the talent. 

 

But I am with the narrative that the dude haqs a lot of Rudy in him, where he will never be great, unlikely even ever average -- but he has moxie, and his teammates love him. 

 

Agree with all of this. Heini is extremely likeable. He's easy to root for, he's got more moxie than...a whole moxie store. However, he's just far too limited physically. If he had a weak arm OR was short OR had middling accuracy, he could still be a solid starter. All three?

 

Moxie only gets you so far.

[Cooleyfan1993]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's 29 years old and will be 30 next year.

 

the math checks out  

[AZDave]

Ok, do i had some time to think about this whole situation. TH we know is not the long term answer but he is our best chance to win(scary thought) and everyone in here all agrees that he is limited. So, why not adjust the offense to his strengths. Stop putting him in positions were he will fail and then we complain. Adjust the system to him. Will he lose us games? Yes but we will be very competitive. Turner needs to adjust. Im willing to ride this out with TH But these stupid play calls are killing me. Give him the ability to check out of a play and lets really see what he can do. Just sayin

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

If we, and by we I mean the players and coaches and fans, rally around the Heinicke experience despite his obvious shortcomings…then why don’t we look to sign on to the full moxie experience but with significantly less shortcomings?

 

Im talking of course about taking a swing at Baker “king moxie” Mayfield this off-season.  Might be fun!

[Fan since a Fetus]

11 minutes ago, AZDave said:

Ok, do i had some time to think about this whole situation. TH we know is not the long term answer but he is our best chance to win(scary thought) and everyone in here all agrees that he is limited. So, why not adjust the offense to his strengths. Stop putting him in positions were he will fail and then we complain. Adjust the system to him. Will he lose us games? Yes but we will be very competitive. Turner needs to adjust. Im willing to ride this out with TH But these stupid play calls are killing me. Give him the ability to check out of a play and lets really see what he can do. Just sayin

 

It was recently stated by Ryan Fitzpatrick that these coaches don’t tailor the system to their players, it’s plug and play. We have the same creativity on the field as we do in rebranding a team. There isn’t any. I was a Turner fan initially, but not really seeing it anymore. 
 

At least they have started to use Gibson properly. Well, some of the games this year. It only took 3 years.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

46 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Do you need glasses?
 

I didn’t say there was zero praise for Wentz and I said during camp not after the trade. The comments from Terry and others were solid but not overly glowing of Wentz. They mostly centered on a strong arm. Of course after a big win, guys are gonna cheer him. 
 

You’re just searching for reasons.

 

First, I know there was fluff pertaining to Wentz because I read it and saw it.  Terry spent the majority of the summer in contract negotiations so it’s a bit disingenuous to even use him as an example, when pretty much the only thing on record from him is that Wentz was a big factor in him signing his extension here.  I think that speaks volumes as opposed to whatever you seem to believe was missing.

 

My point still stands that it’s odd to me that Heinicke played 16 games last year, including some really fun wins, yet there was not a whisper from anyone that suggested we needed more Heinicke.  That also speaks volumes.

It’s not surprising to me in the least that the guys are hyping Heinicke.  He’s a major underdog that’s easy to cheer for - most guys with his arm and body would get absolutely waxed and be lucky to sniff a roster.  He’s also been here for a while and shown them that he can turn the moxie up at the end of a game, give his guys a chance and go win a game.

 

58 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

 

By the way it’s funny your comment on me “I must be new on here”. Just looked and we both joined the board in 2014. I find it ironic how someone so pessimistic averages over one thousand posts each year. I wouldn’t doubt that over 90% of them are negative

I’ve actually been here since 2004, under the name RonBurgundy&Gold.  My participation waned for a while and I came back with a new more fitting name.

 

But yeah, forgive me for not being positive as there’s so much positive stuff to talk about over the last few decades.  It’s amazing how I can even find anything to be negative about.

 

I stand by the fact that just a few weeks ago, 99% of the board wanted to burn it all down, we were talking about how a meltdown season could help in the ouster of Dan and so on and so forth.  Now a few squeaky wins later against bad teams and let’s shoot me for not being amused.  🤣

 

[JSSkinz]

I think Heinicke is playing too conservative. We see him make plays when the game is on the line so if he could channel that same sense of urgency throughout the game it might make a difference. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

19 minutes ago, AZDave said:

Ok, do i had some time to think about this whole situation. TH we know is not the long term answer but he is our best chance to win(scary thought) and everyone in here all agrees that he is limited. So, why not adjust the offense to his strengths. Stop putting him in positions were he will fail and then we complain. Adjust the system to him. Will he lose us games? Yes but we will be very competitive. Turner needs to adjust. Im willing to ride this out with TH But these stupid play calls are killing me. Give him the ability to check out of a play and lets really see what he can do. Just sayin

 

Literally the only positive I can give to Turner is that he does lighten the load for Heinicke and primarily sticks to what he knows can be most effective with him behind center.  Something I haven’t really seen with any other QB under him.  

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I think Heinicke is playing too conservative

Do you want to see behind the back throws and between the knee ball launches? 

 

He's already not paying attention to which team he generally throws to.

[The Rook]

 

 

After 8 games, Carson Wentz's offensive play snap count is 75.76%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Renegade7]

40 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

If we, and by we I mean the players and coaches and fans, rally around the Heinicke experience despite his obvious shortcomings…then why don’t we look to sign on to the full moxie experience but with significantly less shortcomings?

 

Im talking of course about taking a swing at Baker “king moxie” Mayfield this off-season.  Might be fun!

 

My manager is a Panthers fan...two words...

 

 

[Conn]

5 hours ago, Passizle said:

Man oh man... I have not been here in a long time and this still feels so Campbell/Collins/CB5 or the Griffin/Cousins saga. Ill stick to my original thoughts and that is NO QB will thrive behind a porous O-line. THe problem is the owner and his preference for flashy pick, rather than boring ones to build a stout front. A stout front can make a mid QB look great, and a great QB look legendary... but its not just there... you do need hustlers at the skill positions. not studs, but gy who will paly off script on a QB scramble and get open... not guys that finish their routes and sit still. We have some of that now. WOrk on the O-line before those guys leave the team.

 

I mean, we had a very good OL in very very recent history. Then we Ship-of-Theseus’d it over the period of a couple years until it was unrecognizable and bad. We all understand why things happened the way they did with Trent and Scherff but it gets so tiring being unable to build on a strength while we have it. One step forward two steps back. 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

28 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Do you want to see behind the back throws and between the knee ball launches? 

 

He's already not paying attention to which team he generally throws to.

I mean that'd be pretty cool.

[skinsfan93]

1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

I think Heinicke is playing too conservative. We see him make plays when the game is on the line so if he could channel that same sense of urgency throughout the game it might make a difference. 

I think the coaches have tried to reign him in. After all his idol is Favre the ultimate gunslinger. It’s not till we are behind in the 4th that they let him loose. I also think he thinks too much on throwing picks that he doesn’t let loose. 
 

I would like to see him be conservatively aggressive and that’s on Scott calling those plays. We need more than 7 pts going into the 4th quarter. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by skinsfan93

[Skinsinparadise]

We've had our share of good O lines under Dan's reign, is hasn't made any QB.

 

I'll grant a good O line and weapons helps any QB.    But the QB's talent level is paramount.  We've simply not had good QBs.

 

The O line looked horrific at times in 2014 and the 2015 preseason with RG3 under center.  He's replaced by Kirk and all of a sudden it looked good.  The QB's pocket presence and ability to get the ball out quick obviously are key variables in helping the O line. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Spaceman Spiff]

I want the Commies to ride or die with Heinicke for the rest of the season.  I'm well aware of his potential pitfalls, I'm well aware of the bad decision making at times.  But I'm also well aware that we probably haven't had a quarterback in 20 years who would have attempted that pass to TMC yesterday. 

 

His style isn't beautiful, I don't think anyone's claiming it to be, but I think the reason he resonates with so many people is that a lot of us can relate to his style more so than someone like Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady.  It doesn't take a genius to appreciate Rodgers or Brady in the same way anyone can appreciate a priceless piece of art, an amazing piece of music, a meal at a 5 star restaurant or a luxury automobile.  

 

But not a lot of us can relate to those things.  Appreciate, yes; relate, no.  A lot of us can relate to running around without a plan in our lives at times, pulling a rabbit out of a hat and making something out of nothing be it at work or at home.  And, more importantly, the idea of gambling on ourselves, our instincts and whatever tools we have at our disposal no matter how limited or how vast they are.  That play yesterday on 4th & 2, dropping back, stepping up in the pocket, evading a defender, rolling out and hitting an open man who probably wasn't supposed to be there while Heinicke isn't supposed to be there, I've watched that play probably about 25 times since yesterday.  And that's life, things breaking down all around us, scrambling, trying to pull something out and make it work.  That's all we are, every day.  Most of us aren't Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady.  Most of us are Taylor Heinicke.

 

So yeah, I'm with Heinicke for the rest of the way.  Let it ride.

[dunfer]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

We've had our share of good O lines under Dan's reign, is hasn't made any QB.

 

I'll grant a good O line and weapons helps any QB.    But the QB's talent level is paramount.  We've simply not had good QBs.

 

The O line looked horrific at times in 2014 and the 2015 preseason with RG3 under center.  He's replaced by Kirk and all of a sudden it looked good.  The QB's pocket presence and ability to get the ball out quick obviously are key variables in helping the O line. 

It did make Kirk though. Then we had a talent drought and injuries. If we hadnt been in the rg3 draft situation and with Jay/Snyder/Bruce we may have been able to draft a cheap replacement for kirk instead of aging expensive injuries. But then we end up with Haskins and now our line is garbage again...build the line then draft the rook

[Cooleyfan1993]

@Spaceman Spiff believe it or not……I’m Aaron Rodgers AND Tom Brady combined  

Edited October 31, 2022 by Cooleyfan1993
Spelling

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, Cooleyfan1993 said:

@Spaceman Spiff believe it or not……I’m Aaron Rodgers AND Tom Brad combined  

 

I believe it.  

[Est.1974]

Heinicke is doing exactly what you’d expect him to do. No way he’s an option at #1 longer term but he’s a ‘great’ back-up QB in this league. Get him under contract for 2023 IMO, I think there is a lot of value in that.

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

Heinicke is doing exactly what you’d expect him to do. No way he’s an option at #1 longer term but he’s a ‘great’ back-up QB in this league. Get him under contract for 2023 IMO, I think there is a lot of value in that.

 

He is 2-0 this year. 7-3 last 10 starts and those 3 losses happened after the Covid infections finally ran through our team, The guy wins games. He has beaten Brady and Rodgers for us. It might not be pretty until the end but the dude wins.

[SoCalSkins]

19 hours ago, KDawg said:

Alex Smith doesn’t exist, apparently.

I missed this earlier. Yes Alex was 11-5 but that’s not a full season anymore. Only QB in the Snyder era with 17 or more games played as a starter with a winning record is Taylor Heinicke.

[JSSkinz]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Do you want to see behind the back throws and between the knee ball launches? 

 

Yes

 

 

[dunfer]

18 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

I missed this earlier. Yes Alex was 11-5 but that’s not a full season anymore. Only QB in the Snyder era with 17 or more games played as a starter with a winning record is Taylor Heinicke.

This stat is really depressing