The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Califan007 The Constipated]

39 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think I'd still be right. Even if Wentz looked absolutely horrible, probably the only people calling for TH would be members of the Hive on here. Most others would be wondering if Howell was ready and whether it might be worth it to give him a shot.

 

 

Two things:

 

- You seem to be basing the above only on the members of this thread.

 

- You seem to be basing your opinion on the skill sets of the QBs. I'm basing my opinion on the proven mentality of the fan base lol...

 

 

31 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

The game day threads are hilarious. If Wentz looks horrid in game 1 there will be 25 people calling for him to be benched in the 2nd half, guaranteed. 

 

 

Exactly lol 😂...exactly.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

I’m not sure anything Wentz can do will matter if this 3rd down defense doesn’t get straightened out.

I'm going to make a bold prediction sure to go wrong:

 

I think we hold both Jax and Detroit under 35% 3rd down conversions in the first 2 weeks.  

 

What happens from there, I don't know.  But I watched the Chiefs game back, first unit, a couple of times. Mahomes did things to them on 3rd down which were unnatural and unholy.  And they had a TERRIBLE penalty on WJIII which should have been a stop.

 

I think it looks worse than it is.  

 

I'm going to speak this into existence.  

 

FWIW, they wouldn't have gotten stopped on that last 3rd down which led to the Wentz sack if they hadn't run the ball on 2nd and 5 for no yards.  This directly led to the 3rd and 5 Cosmi false start.  I keep telling you people, running the ball leads to punts.  Don't run the damn ball. Ever.  Ever Ever. 

 

 

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

There is pressure on him. Drama might follow him, but I'm not sure he's the source of it. 

 

Right now, he is the least drama filled part of this team.  He played just fine the first 2 preseason games.  

 

Might he "be who we thought he was?  If we want to crown him, crown his ass?"    

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sure, there will always be folks that want the backup.  It’s almost a qualification to be a fan of this team.  
 

Per usual though, those fans end up looking stupid because the backup usually stinks too, if not worse.  

 

 

Bold part, absolutely true...whether or not they end up looking stupid usually plays no role in their decision making lol.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm going to make a bold prediction sure to go wrong:

 

I think we hold both Jax and Detroit under 35% 3rd down conversions in the first 2 weeks.  

 

What happens from there, I don't know.  But I watched the Chiefs game back, first unit, a couple of times. Mahomes did things to them on 3rd down which were unnatural and unholy.  And they had a TERRIBLE penalty on WJIII which should have been a stop.

 

I think it looks worse than it is.  

 

I'm going to speak this into existence.  

 

FWIW, they wouldn't have gotten stopped on that last 3rd down which led to the Wentz sack if they hadn't run the ball on 2nd and 5 for no yards.  This directly led to the 3rd and 5 Cosmi false start.  I keep telling you people, running the ball leads to punts.  Don't run the damn ball. Ever.  Ever Ever. 

 

 

There is pressure on him. Drama might follow him, but I'm not sure he's the source of it. 

 

Right now, he is the least drama filled part of this team.  He played just fine the first 2 preseason games.  

 

Might he "be who we thought he was?  If we want to crown him, crown his ass?"    

 

Is it weird for me to say all of the NFC East QB's are heavily pressured?

Hurts, Jones, and Wentz are all playing for starting jobs. Jones is a FA, and the Eagles have oodles of ammo to trade up for a QB in the next draft. Wentz is a bit more secure, but has zero guaranteed dollars. Dak has the highest expectations and the most on his shoulders, he's missing more WR talent than ever too.

[mistertim]

13 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Two things:

 

- You seem to be basing the above only on the members of this thread.

 

- You seem to be basing your opinion on the skill sets of the QBs. I'm basing my opinion on the proven mentality of the fan base lol...

 

 

Sure, members of this thread and maybe some people on Twitter. But just the hardcore Heinicke fans in general is what I mean.

 

I think you're right in general about people wanting the backup when the starter is bad, but usually that's when you have a backup who's relatively unknown and/or is a younger guy who has what people see as potential or upside. Heinicke is neither of those. That's why I said I think it would be more likely that people would be calling for Howell to get the nod so we can see how he does.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Ball Security]

Can’t believe this actually happened.

 

 

 

 

[Mrshadow008]

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm going to make a bold prediction sure to go wrong:

 

I think we hold both Jax and Detroit under 35% 3rd down conversions in the first 2 weeks.  

 

What happens from there, I don't know.  But I watched the Chiefs game back, first unit, a couple of times. Mahomes did things to them on 3rd down which were unnatural and unholy.  And they had a TERRIBLE penalty on WJIII which should have been a stop.

 

I think it looks worse than it is.  

 

I'm going to speak this into existence.  

 

FWIW, they wouldn't have gotten stopped on that last 3rd down which led to the Wentz sack if they hadn't run the ball on 2nd and 5 for no yards.  This directly led to the 3rd and 5 Cosmi false start.  I keep telling you people, running the ball leads to punts.  Don't run the damn ball. Ever.  Ever Ever. 

 

 

There is pressure on him. Drama might follow him, but I'm not sure he's the source of it. 

 

Right now, he is the least drama filled part of this team.  He played just fine the first 2 preseason games.  

 

Might he "be who we thought he was?  If we want to crown him, crown his ass?"    

im going to guess you're talking about the play at the bottom? Id guess during regular season youd get play action off this. Samuel probably house calls this and perfect example of stuff you probably wouldnt call during preseason. Somewhere Dan snyder is holding on to some vanilla ice cream lol 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

19 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Sure, members of this thread and maybe some people on Twitter. But just the hardcore Heinicke fans in general is what I mean.

 

I think you're right in general about people wanting the backup when the starter is bad, but usually that's when you have a backup who's relatively unknown and/or is a younger guy who has what people see as potential or upside. Heinicke is neither of those. That's why I said I think it would be more likely that people would be calling for Howell to get the nod so we can see how he does.

You could be right about more wanting Howell to play, but that’ll be contingent on him having a really good 3rd preseason game and Heinicke having another bad game (if he plays). If he ends up looking worse than last week and TH looks better than last week….well, if Wentz vaulters prepare for “Heinicke!” chants, is all I’m saying lol…

Edited August 22, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[Skinsinparadise]

@Thinking Skins Your favorite QB and the Qb you hate the most on the same team now.  😀

 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

If Wentz struggles against Jax/Detroit people may be calling for TH...so far I've seen nothing out of Wentz and his bazooka arm. I hope he plays vs Balt because he looks like he could use the work along with Turner. Would be nice to see Wentz running around and making plays like Mahomes was doing.

Only the HeiniHive.

 

Carson would really have to stink it up for about a half a season before getting benched. If that happen, Taylor would probably get the nod unless the decide just to see what Sam has.

 

You hive members will be crying when we move on from him in January.

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, NeverSurrender said:

Can we make a "pre-season freak out" thread? This is rediculous.

 

[Ball Security]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@Thinking Skins Your favorite QB and the Qb you hate the most on the same team now.  😀

 

 

 

Mond looked terrible the other night on TV.

[skins4ever28]

It’s just preseason, but I still think the wentz trade was a huge mistake. I cannot for the life of me figure out what they saw in him. Let him start and have the year, give Howell a year to sit, I’m sure we won’t be going into the playoffs with wentz but whatever, maybe Howell will learn a lot watching and become our guy. He’s got as much heart as Heiny, but way more talent. I’m excited for him

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 minutes ago, skins4ever28 said:

It’s just preseason, but I still think the wentz trade was a huge mistake. I cannot for the life of me figure out what they saw in him. Let him start and have the year, give Howell a year to sit, I’m sure we won’t be going into the playoffs with wentz but whatever, maybe Howell will learn a lot watching and become our guy. He’s got as much heart as Heiny, but way more talent. I’m excited for him

 

All posts like this should also state what they would have preferred we do.

 

Trubisky? Mariota? Darnold? Not a lot of options out there during our window for QB shopping. This is, by draft position, one of the worst QB classes ever.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

You could be right about more wanting Howell to play, but that’ll be contingent on him having a really good 3rd preseason game and Heinicke having another bad game (if he plays). If he ends up looking worse than last week and TH looks better than last week….well, if Wentz vaulters prepare for “Heinicke!” chants, is all I’m saying lol…

 

Well, I think it would be most contingent upon whether or not Howell takes the backup job.

 

I think if Heinicke keeps it, they probably wouldn't pull Wentz, even if he was playing poorly, because they know exactly what they have in TH and they've made it clear that he a pure backup and not a starter. They'd probably roll with Wentz for the season and then get rid of him after this year.

 

If Howell wins the backup job then that means the coaches obviously think he's good enough to play now. So then if Wentz is truly stinking it up I could see it as more likely that they'd think of a QB change. (still may be unlikely though)

 

IMO the only way Heinicke sees the field this season is if Wentz is injured (and he kept the backup job, of course).

[Carsonfanforlife]

4 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

I expected this kind of reaction from some and its cool, that being said, it would be nice to see Wentz play with some of TH's moxie and maybe make a play or two. 

Nope, but I do expect him to be able to buy some time every now and then and make a play. Mahomes is 10 levels better than Wentz. I guess I'd like to see more of a competitor out of Wentz than what he's shown so far. Get pissed off, tell RR they're going for it on 4th down after he misfires, do SOMETHING to spark the team. 

Lol did you actually type this with seriousness? 🤣

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Can anyone that is down on Wentz after two preseason games explain to me what they are so down about?

 

Personally, I’ve seen nothing that really excites me or gives me pause.  Which is pretty much like every preseason I can recall, no matter how the team stood at seasons end.  Can anyone recall any real electric plays or killer drives from our first team offense in the preseason, from any regime, in the last 20 years?  
 

Generally speaking, you don’t see teams opening the playbook very wide in the preseason nor do you see much strategy deployed to move the chains.  It’s a lot of setting up scenarios to get looks against certain formations, certain down and distance, etc.  You only ever really see a play to win mentality when it gets down to the end and the bottom of the roster is playing like it matters.

 

From a defense standpoint, I will say that it’s unsettling to watch the opposing first team offense march down the field and score.  Predominantly because of what I said above, the offense is so vanilla it shouldn’t be that hard to stop.  And for a defense like ours that stunk terribly last year to look like a carbon copy this season is a legitimate cause for concern.

 

But a new QB, running a new offense - the vanilla version of it, with new weapons and a makeshift O-line not setting the field on fire is not a cause for concern at all IMO.  
 

It seems to me those that are raging about are those who are predisposed to doing so, due to bias on some level.  One would think he was out there throwing picks and fumbling given some of the comments.  We even have a dude saying that he should be out there, in the preseason, telling his coaches to get lost and keeping the offense out there on fourth down to show some heart.  It reads like satire, but these folks are serious.  Make it make sense.

[Carsonfanforlife]

I don't get it either. It's vanilla play calling, there's no game planning, not sure why anyone gets excited about what happens in practice or preseason whether it's good or bad. It's fricking practice FFS!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

37 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Well, I think it would be most contingent upon whether or not Howell takes the backup job.

 

I think if Heinicke keeps it, they probably wouldn't pull Wentz, even if he was playing poorly, because they know exactly what they have in TH and they've made it clear that he a pure backup and not a starter. They'd probably roll with Wentz for the season and then get rid of him after this year.

 

If Howell wins the backup job then that means the coaches obviously think he's good enough to play now. So then if Wentz is truly stinking it up I could see it as more likely that they'd think of a QB change. (still may be unlikely though)

 

IMO the only way Heinicke sees the field this season is if Wentz is injured (and he kept the backup job, of course).

 

You’re talking about what the coaches would do if Wentz was sucking eggs. I’m talking about what the fans will say.  A lot more than just a handful of diehard Hive members will be calling for him to replace Wentz if the scenario described took place. 

[Ball Security]

28 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Can anyone that is down on Wentz after two preseason games explain to me what they are so down about?

 

Personally, I’ve seen nothing that really excites me or gives me pause.  Which is pretty much like every preseason I can recall, no matter how the team stood at seasons end.  Can anyone recall any real electric plays or killer drives from our first team offense in the preseason, from any regime, in the last 20 years?  
 

Generally speaking, you don’t see teams opening the playbook very wide in the preseason nor do you see much strategy deployed to move the chains.  It’s a lot of setting up scenarios to get looks against certain formations, certain down and distance, etc.  You only ever really see a play to win mentality when it gets down to the end and the bottom of the roster is playing like it matters.

 

From a defense standpoint, I will say that it’s unsettling to watch the opposing first team offense march down the field and score.  Predominantly because of what I said above, the offense is so vanilla it shouldn’t be that hard to stop.  And for a defense like ours that stunk terribly last year to look like a carbon copy this season is a legitimate cause for concern.

 

But a new QB, running a new offense - the vanilla version of it, with new weapons and a makeshift O-line not setting the field on fire is not a cause for concern at all IMO.  
 

It seems to me those that are raging about are those who are predisposed to doing so, due to bias on some level.  One would think he was out there throwing picks and fumbling given some of the comments.  We even have a dude saying that he should be out there, in the preseason, telling his coaches to get lost and keeping the offense out there on fourth down to show some heart.  It reads like satire, but these folks are serious.  Make it make sense.

Osaka.  Never forget!  Or is that 21 years now. 🤣

[kingdaddy]

32 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Can anyone that is down on Wentz after two preseason games explain to me what they are so down about?

 

Personally, I’ve seen nothing that really excites me or gives me pause.  Which is pretty much like every preseason I can recall, no matter how the team stood at seasons end.  Can anyone recall any real electric plays or killer drives from our first team offense in the preseason, from any regime, in the last 20 years?  
 

Generally speaking, you don’t see teams opening the playbook very wide in the preseason nor do you see much strategy deployed to move the chains.  It’s a lot of setting up scenarios to get looks against certain formations, certain down and distance, etc.  You only ever really see a play to win mentality when it gets down to the end and the bottom of the roster is playing like it matters.

 

From a defense standpoint, I will say that it’s unsettling to watch the opposing first team offense march down the field and score.  Predominantly because of what I said above, the offense is so vanilla it shouldn’t be that hard to stop.  And for a defense like ours that stunk terribly last year to look like a carbon copy this season is a legitimate cause for concern.

 

But a new QB, running a new offense - the vanilla version of it, with new weapons and a makeshift O-line not setting the field on fire is not a cause for concern at all IMO.  
 

It seems to me those that are raging about are those who are predisposed to doing so, due to bias on some level.  One would think he was out there throwing picks and fumbling given some of the comments.  We even have a dude saying that he should be out there, in the preseason, telling his coaches to get lost and keeping the offense out there on fourth down to show some heart.  It reads like satire, but these folks are serious.  Make it make sense.

No bias...just need to see more. Even Wentz himself said he can't take that sack on 3rd down knocking them out of FG range. I have high hopes for Wentz and this team, built my Saturday around watching the 1st half only to see more embarrassment. I'm old enough to know that its only preseason but even RR said that performance on defense was unacceptable. The vanilla offense excuse is one thing but I have to watch the Eagles here in Philly and they are clicking across the board with their starters running the same vanilla stuff. I also heard where RR got after Turner on Saturday...maybe he expected more too?

I do expect Logan to help CW a ton.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Can anyone that is down on Wentz after two preseason games explain to me what they are so down about?

 

Personally, I’ve seen nothing that really excites me or gives me pause.  

 

My take on all three QBs hasn’t changed one iota, outside of being more impressed with Howell’s NFL arm than I thought I would be. Actually, I take that back: my view on Howell has changed for the better…I get the excitement over him now. But I still feel he needs a lot of time and development to move up to the #2 spot, nonetheless become starter. Admittedly, though, I’m not considering his time in training camp, where he could be doing rather well (I don’t really have any idea lol)…

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

You’re talking about what the coaches would do if Wentz was sucking eggs. I’m talking about what the fans will say.  A lot more than just a handful of diehard Hive members will be calling for him to replace Wentz if the scenario described took place. 

 

Again, I think it would mostly be people who were already big Heinicke fans who would be calling for him. Most people know he's only a backup and is too limited to run the offense outside of spot duty when a team hasn't been able to game plan for him.

 

Though I guess it also depends on how "bad" Wentz is playing. Is he at 10 TDs and 8 INTs and mostly underwhelming? Or is he at 3 TDs and 10 INTs and is absolutely atrocious? If the former, no reason to give Heinkcke the nod because it's unlikely he'd be able to do much better. If it's the latter, then sure. But given Wentz's history I don't see any reason to believe he'd be that godawful. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Again, I think it would mostly be people who were already big Heinicke fans who would be calling for him. Most people know he's only a backup and is too limited to run the offense outside of spot duty when a team hasn't been able to game plan for him.

 

Though I guess it also depends on how "bad" Wentz is playing. Is he at 10 TDs and 8 INTs and mostly underwhelming? Or is he at 3 TDs and 10 INTs and is absolutely atrocious? If the former, no reason to give Heinkcke the nod because it's unlikely he'd be able to do much better. If it's the latter, then sure. But given Wentz's history I don't see any reason to believe he'd be that godawful. 

For this fan base? Overthrowing a wide-open Dotson downfield on the first drive against the Jags will be enough lol…