The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[actorguy1]

Just remember, from the moment a team's season ends until the draft is over is "Silly Season". Take everything with a grain of salt. 95% of what is published is being pushed by front offices or agents.

[MartinC]

23 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Would I? No. But he's a better QB than about 2/3 of the league has (not counting young guys). And 29 mil isn't elite money.

 

I mean, all this talk about people trading a 1st for for Jimmy G and he is signed for 25.6 mil.

Anyone trading a first round pick for Jimmy G is out of their mind and setting down a path that will get them, and others in that organization, fired. I hope it’s not here.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Just now, MartinC said:

Anyone trading a first round pick for Jimmy G is out of their mind and setting down a path that will get them, and others in that organization, fired. I hope it’s not here.

Again, I wouldn't either. 

 

But to be clear, the point is there is wide spread discussion of who is going to trade for Jimmy G and what they are going to give up for him. And he comes with a 25.6 mil salary.

In that reality, the notion that there is no way anyone would take on Tannehill at 29 mil is clearly off.

[Chump Bailey]

3 hours ago, Redskins 2021 said:

You really think the Michigan de and the Oregon de are that good. 

 

[Jericho]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I'm not exactly a Malik Willis fanboy but he's a way better prospect than Jamie Newman was. As @Skinsinparadisenoted, Newman pretty much imploded at the Senior Bowl and after an up and down first day, it sounds like Willis is doing really well. 

 

I think you all missed my Newman point. I wasn't trying to argue that Newman was a better prospect. As I stated in my first post, he clearly was not. But the point I was trying to make is that people are inflating his value based on tools. Like Newman, Willis is pretty much tools and projection. And people hype players like that based on the absolute best case scenario, wherein the player grows into those tools. Even though that happens nearly zero percent of the time

[Jericho]

 Just to show you some of the Newman hype I was talking about (and yeah, I realize not everyone was saying they liked him or would draft him, but look at where people thought he might go)...

 

On 3/2/2021 at 1:18 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

the more I think about it the less I like the idea of Newman or Mond in the 2nd or 3rd. 

 

We talk about busts in the first round but the percentage of busts in the 2nd or 3rd round is beyond insane.   The draft looks loaded at offensive play makers at that range of the draft so not sure i love the idea of picking a dude who has about a 90% chance of busting versus a guy like an Elijah Moore, Michael Carter, Brevin Jordan, etc. 

 

I like some of Mond and Newman's game but would I bet that they become the unicorn that Russell Wilson was?  Nope.   

 

 

On 1/27/2021 at 10:26 AM, skinsfan_1215 said:

Fields and Lance are in the same general category for me. Wouldn’t want them with a top 10 pick if you needed a day 1 starter, but could justify drafting them in the 10-32 range if you had a veteran QB. Newman may creep into the backend of that range too... Lot of talent with all of them but I’d be really nervous about projecting success. Better if you can give them time to be really comfortable with what is needed to be successful at the NFL level before they are tossed into the fire. 

 

 

On 3/2/2021 at 6:24 PM, DWinzit said:

2nd or 3rd rounds were too high for Brissett. The Pats reached on him due to the need for a Brady backup. Brissett looked like the type that could be a perfect 2nd stringer for years, capable of filling in and eventually become a starter. He had most of the attributes you want in a QB. He just needed more time learning to read defenses and have coaches work on getting him to stop throwing from his back foot. If you get that in the 4th or 5th that's a good risk.  

Newman a better athlete and leader than Brissett was coming out but really missed the past year which sucks, yet makes him intriguing. Someone will take a shot at him by the 2nd or 3rd.  Mond I watched in 3 games and while I see the potential, IMO you can't take him before the 4th.

 

 

On 1/29/2021 at 11:24 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The problem is every draft is different. Schefter among others are suggesting this will be a unique year in that so many teams being in the hunt.  With all these teams picking ahead of us needing QBs, I'd be surprised if there is any surprise drop at QB.  I think this is more like the year where dudes like Christian Ponder ended up surprisingly high picks then anything else.  I wonder now for example if Newman becomes a first rounder.

 

 

 

On 1/27/2021 at 9:02 AM, mistertim said:

 

Newman and Jones are basically diametrically opposed players. Jones is a polished QB with limited physical abilities so has a high floor and probably mediocre ceiling. Newman is a raw QB with tons of physical talent and low floor with a potentially super high ceiling. So IMO the two draft scenarios would be totally different.

 

I think if we went with Jones, he'd likely have a decent chance of being the starter right away, considering his experience and polish. If we went with Newman I think he'd definitely sit for a year and we'd be rolling with Allen/Heinicke (whichever is least injured at the time).

 

I also don't personally see them in the same draft category. I think Jones is a low 1st / high 2nd rounder and Newman is a low 2nd / high 3rd rounder. 

 

 

On 2/5/2021 at 7:51 AM, Thinking Skins said:

 

But I wouldn't paint it as a simple low round vs first round QB. Maybe I could have done a similar thing with arm strength or accuracy or leadership but I think a key would be to not overdraft some of these guys because they have something we like. I'd garner that we can get one of Jones, Newman, Trask or Mond in the second and have it not be a reach. Of those guys I think Newman and Mond are the two more mobile QBs with Newman having a higher ceiling and Mond with the higher floor. 

 

On 2/24/2021 at 10:04 AM, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Hear me out. I think I could come around on Cam Newton, because of who he is, and because of who he succeeded with. If Rivera brings him on for a 1-2 year cheap-ish deal to run this offense, I would have to trust his judgment. If I were any other QB needy team I would be weary, but if it's Ron, who knows him best, that brings him in I have to trust that.

 

I think I have gotten to the point where my "wish list" is as follows ...

 

Sign Cam Newton to an incentive-laden 1-2 year deal ala Heinecke. Maybe 2 years and up to $16m in total value if he starts a certain % of games or something.

 

Find a rookie to try and groom. If that's Jamie Newman in Round 3 or 4, fine. But my preference would be Trey Lance. If he gets within striking distance, move up and get him.

 

 

On 2/24/2021 at 10:24 AM, clskinsfan said:

Cam was atrocious in the second half of the season last year. Horrible. Now I dont know if he was fighting some kind of injury. But the guy was not good. Lance is an unknown and I actually prefer Jones as an NFL QB. Hell I would actually prefer Jamie Newman to Lance. He isnt going to cost you a first rounder. Or even more likely needing to trade up for Lance. Newman will be there in the second and possibly in the third round.  And the guy is a more proven prospect than Lance at this point. 

 

On 3/2/2021 at 6:39 PM, Thinking Skins said:

Honestly, i like Newman and think he could be a steal. But his lack of experience scares me. I definitely wouldn't take him in the first. 

 

Mond and Trask are less likely to be good starters, and I'd bet that their being good early would depend more on having weapons, a good running game and a defense so they could just play qb without a heavy load. But with that option, i think Mond has the ability to be a Tyrod Taylor type to be decent enough to be good but not good enough to last. 

 

I think Newman will be sink or swim. He has all the ability but if he's thrown in early, there's so much he hasn't seen that could just overwhelm him. Like when Gregg Williams confused Haskins with Adams. But he has the potential to go earlier. 

[KDawg]

23 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 Just to show you some of the Newman hype I was talking about (and yeah, I realize not everyone was saying they liked him or would draft him, but look at where people thought he might go)...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Senior Bowl happened and every bit of “trait” love Newman got flew the coup. He looked like the athletic Haskins with a weaker arm.

 

Newman wasn’t the same prospect Willis is. 
 

But I think I’m missing your argument if you’re not comparing them. Are you saying guys with traits are often overrated? Newman didn’t have traits. The Senior Bowl literally destroyed any reason to draft him.

Edited February 4, 2022 by KDawg

[88Comrade2000]

Who will be our Cobra King Commander?

 

Only Cobra King can lead us to victory. 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Jericho said:

 

I think you all missed my Newman point. I wasn't trying to argue that Newman was a better prospect. As I stated in my first post, he clearly was not. But the point I was trying to make is that people are inflating his value based on tools. Like Newman, Willis is pretty much tools and projection. And people hype players like that based on the absolute best case scenario, wherein the player grows into those tools. Even though that happens nearly zero percent of the time

 

I think a lot of people saw Newman as a somewhere between a 2nd and 4th rounder before the Senior Bowl, mostly due to his physical tools. But his abysmal showing in that venue really devalued him to the point where he wasn't even drafted.

[cakmoney61]

Reading what people are willing to give up to move up to grab a QB makes me extremely happy that some are not the GM.  There are four QBs people consider to be viable prospects.  To go up to four or higher makes little sense unless Washington really believes that one of them is a franchise QB.

Edited February 4, 2022 by cakmoney61

[Conn]

13 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

Reading what people are willing to give up to move up to grab a QB makes me extremely happy that some are not the GM.  There are four QBs people consider to be viable prospects.  To go up to four or higher makes little sense unless Washington really believes that one of them is a franchise QB.

It’s easy for us to say “one of these four will be there at 11”. NFL evaluators don’t usually look at it that way, they will identify a guy or two who they think could be it, and most likely fall absolutely in love with one and be willing to overpay to make sure they get him. See: Bears trading a 3rd to move up one spot for no reason to ensure nobody could jump them for Trubisky.

 

It’s not always smart and teams aren’t always right. Obviously. But I highly doubt most teams will feel these QBs are as interchangeable as some see them right now. They’ll want their pick of the litter and someone(s?) will pay for that right. 

[cakmoney61]

4 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

It’s easy for us to say “one of these four will be there at 11”. NFL evaluators don’t usually look at it that way, they will identify a guy or two who they think could be it, and most likely fall absolutely in love with one and be willing to overpay to make sure they get him. See: Bears trading a 3rd to move up one spot for no reason to ensure nobody could jump them for Trubisky.

 

It’s not always smart and teams aren’t always right. Obviously. But I highly doubt most teams will feel these QBs are as interchangeable as some see them right now. They’ll want their pick of the litter and someone(s?) will pay for that right. 

With the possible exception of Malik Willis who most suggest has the highest ceiling, no one appears to be the type of prospect to move into the top four to get.  Would you be shocked if Washington picked the first QB at #11?  I wouldn't.  These QBs' ratings are all over the map.  There isn't even a real consensus on who is the best of the bunch.  And that's not a good thing.  

 

I have a feeling Washington will get bamboozled in a trade to move up for one of these college QBs.  I'd rather they spend high draft picks and a player in a trade for proven talent, for example, Russell Wilson.

 

The QB situation getting resolved this offseason just doesn't look very promising.  This is what virtually 30 years of futility does to a fan base.  If it can go wrong, it will go wrong.  Please talk me off this ledge.

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

With the possible exception of Malik Willis who most suggest has the highest ceiling, no one appears to be the type of prospect to move into the top four to get.  Would you be shocked if Washington picked the first QB at #11?  I wouldn't.  These QBs' ratings are all over the map.  There isn't even a real consensus on who is the best of the bunch.  And that's not a good thing.  

 

I have a feeling Washington will get bamboozled in a trade to move up for one of these college QBs.  I'd rather they spend high draft picks and a player in a trade for proven talent, for example, Russell Wilson.

 

The QB situation getting resolved this offseason just doesn't look very promising.  This is what virtually 30 years of futility does to a fan base.  If it can go wrong, it will go wrong.  Please talk me off this ledge.

 

Yes, I would be very surprised if the first QB off the board is to Washington at 11 right now.

 

Extremely surprised, even.

 

I think 2 at minimum are going top 10.

 

I also wouldn't trade up to 4 unless the team LOVES a guy.

 

But I'm not going to get mad at us making a move for a QB after we've dropped the ball for years barring a RG3 like trade.

[cakmoney61]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Yes, I would be very surprised if the first QB off the board is to Washington at 11 right now.

 

Extremely surprised, even.

 

I think 2 at minimum are going top 10.

 

I also wouldn't trade up to 4 unless the team LOVES a guy.

 

But I'm not going to get mad at us making a move for a QB after we've dropped the ball for years barring a RG3 like trade.

Would you say your lack of surprise would be due the lack of supply when compared to the demand?  And not because the QBs are seen as extremely talented?  

 

Who would you trade up for?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, cakmoney61 said:

Would you say your lack of surprise would be due the lack of supply when compared to the demand?  And not because the QBs are seen as extremely talented?  

 

Who would you trade up for?

 

I think your question is generally answered the exact same every season: QBs aren't usually the best players in the draft, yet they typically go #1 overall and get drafted in the first more often. The value of the position is why.

 

Last year had a lot of high end QB value. This season has less. But it has QB talent.

 

I'd trade up for Willis or Howell as of THIS moment. How far up? Not #4. It would depend on the how the draft is going. but in that 7-9 range.

 

Strong's medicals are a big thing to keep an eye on. 

[Skinsinparadise]

@Jericho

 

Your own requotes of me, make my point ironically. 

 

You got me quoted PRE Senior Bowl and POST Senior Bowl.   

 

In the PRE Senior Bowl quote I talk about QBs tend to rise, implying sometimes its a surprise, citing Christian Ponder and maybe it happens with Newman without really praising him there but just talking about QBs tend to rise.

 

In the POST Senior Bowl quote I say I wouldn't want Newman even the 2nd or third round.

 

 I've talked about Willis' elite talent for months.  But even with it, I said it all depends on how he plays Senior Bowl week.

 

Again, Willis has been the talk of the Senior Bowl, he's been killer good.  Newman was atrocious in the Senior Bowl.

 

Again Newman didn't play for a full year before the Senior Bowl, the Senior Bowl was a big big deal for him, even bigger than it is for Willis.  Newman failed his test royally, he stunk.  Willis is acing his test.  Again I think your point ironically helps Willis case and doesn't hurt him one whit. 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[cakmoney61]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think your question is generally answered the exact same every season: QBs aren't usually the best players in the draft, yet they typically go #1 overall and get drafted in the first more often. The value of the position is why.

 

Last year had a lot of high end QB value. This season has less. But it has QB talent.

 

I'd trade up for Willis or Howell as of THIS moment. How far up? Not #4. It would depend on the how the draft is going. but in that 7-9 range.

 

Strong's medicals are a big thing to keep an eye on. 

Moving up to 7-9 makes much more sense.  I can't imagine anyone trading into the top 4 but anything is possible. 

 

So when do you think the first QB comes off the board?  

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

Moving up to 7-9 makes much more sense.  I can't imagine anyone trading into the top 4 but anything is possible. 

 

So when do you think the first QB comes off the board?  

 

I think it's possible Pittsburgh trades up to 4 for Willis. Or at least sees if they can without giving up the farm.

 

It's tough to predict much right now, though, because we don't know how the QB trade market is going to go. There's a ton of possibilities right now. 

[Skinsinparadise]

The best analogy I can think of to Willis and Newman.  They are like students, some say good students but heck we don't know about the school they came from, and Newman didn't even go to school last year, so lets see if you can validate that after they take their SAT scores.

 

A. Willis scored in the upper 5% -- maybe he can get into Harvard with a score like that. Some hyperbole to make a point

B.  Newman bombed it -- lower 5% -- where we wonder if the dude can even get into community college.

 

The whole analogy actually sells Willis.  It doesn't damage him. 😀

Edited February 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[cakmoney61]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think it's possible Pittsburgh trades up to 4 for Willis. Or at least sees if they can without giving up the farm.

 

It's tough to predict much right now, though, because we don't know how the QB trade market is going to go. There's a ton of possibilities right now. 

Wow!!!  Malik Willis at four?  I can see that. 

 

Yes, it's all speculation at this point.  This will be one of the most interesting drafts for QBs than we've had in a long time.  With the exception of Malik Willis, I don't see a lot of big moves up to get these QBs.  Incremental moves, yes.  

 

Speaking just as a fan of the NFL, I'm very interested in this year's draft just to see what happens with these QBs.  I don't know which would be the bigger surprise.  How high some of these QBs will go or how low.

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig, I posted other parts of his article in the draft thread

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

14 hours ago, Redskins 2021 said:

You really think the Michigan de and the Oregon de are that good. I think those two will be disappointing. I don't think they will be game changers. The Michigan guy played poorly against Georgia. 

 

Personally, I would take Hutch or KT over Young and Sweat 

 

ALLDAY

&

EVERYDAY

[HigSkin]

11 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 

I mean, all this talk about people trading a 1st for for Jimmy G and he is signed for 25.6 mil.

 

I think it's because there were rumors last year that's what Shanahan wanted for him so everybody here kind of went with that this year. 

 

That doesn't seem to be the case according to SF local news.

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/02/02/49ers-offeseason-checklist-top-5-items-kyle-shanahan-and-company-need-to-tackle/

 

 

Garoppolo, in his heartfelt farewell on Tuesday, indicated that “things will happen pretty quickly.” Shanahan said there is no rush. Retirements by Tom Brady (Tampa Bay) and Ben Roethlisberger (Pittsburgh) open two jobs. A Day 2 draft pick could make a deal, be it in 2022 or ’23, presuming his thumb, shoulder, ankle and knee injuries don’t scare suitors, He’s been a gritty, team player trapped in the ultimate, individual spotlight that comes with being the 49ers’ quarterback.

 

They’ve got a month to hear offers before backroom deals get hatched at the NFL scouting combine March 1-7.

 

[Hitman#21]

When Joey T speaks you listen, this team is done with Taylor and drafting a QB.

[Zim489]

6 hours ago, cakmoney61 said:

The QB situation getting resolved this offseason just doesn't look very promising.  This is what virtually 30 years of futility does to a fan base.  If it can go wrong, it will go wrong.  Please talk me off this ledge.

Yeah I dont see a path to them getting the answer correct this year but the swing needs to be taken this year. I wont ever have them in the running for one of the elite guys until the team is elite and right now it isnt. Still think its one of the lower tier rosters. Nothing in the coaching staff screams "I want to be there" for a QB. Plus you have Dan.

 

The rookies are clearly a step below the top 4 last year.