The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

That would leave us and Carolina. We have the draft capital and are the better team, and probably the better market. I would think if the choice were between Carolina and DC, he'd come here, but who knows.

 

If I was accused of being a midget, and wanted to escape that rap, why would my preferred destination spot to be to go to the land of the midgets? 

 

We already know via Keim that Watson has a hard no as for waiving his trade clause to come here. 

[HigSkin]

Listening to David Carr on The Herd speak about his brother and that situation is definitely fluid.  He was speaking and stating like he hasn't talked to his brother about all this and it's David's opinion.  Simple talking like he was an ESPN analyst (although you gotta figure he's got info) but he said all Derek wants to do is win.  He thinks Derek shouldn't want to go through what he's gone through the last 8 years with mediocrity.  He's waiting to see who the GM is, who the coach is, who they plan to keep, etc. and see how things unfold.

[Redskins 2021]

14 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Listening to David Carr on The Herd speak about his brother and that situation is definitely fluid.  He was speaking and stating like he hasn't talked to his brother about all this and it's David's opinion.  Simple talking like he was an ESPN analyst (although you gotta figure he's got info) but he said all Derek wants to do is win.  He thinks Derek shouldn't want to go through what he's gone through the last 8 years with mediocrity.  He's waiting to see who the GM is, who the coach is, who they plan to keep, etc. and see how things unfold.

That is the trade I think Rivera has done. Carr brother has been saying radiers want Wilson 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Koolblue13]

Carr would be the biggest win. He's younger than the top two and doesn't have the dark Watson cloud. He's right around that 8-12 tier and he wouldn't cost us 3 1rsts, although definitely 2 and change.

 

 

 

It Worked! The 2 deep shell absolutely stunned Mahomes!

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Koolblue13

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Carr would be the biggest win. He's younger than the top two and doesn't have the dark Watson cloud. He's right around that 8-12 tier and he wouldn't cost us 3 1rsts, although definitely 2 and change.

 

 

 

Keim on his last podcast, only talked about Carr, normally he hits multiple topics before launching into his interview.

 

He among others have made it clear that he'd be pursued by the WFT if made available.  Apparently Gruden loved Carr, but the owner not so much.  Keim said anyone he's talked to around the league think the Raiders would be nuts to let him go.  But it sounds like its a possiblity depending on the new coach/FO.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Redskins 2021]

I think for this to happen the Raiders will have to get Rodgers or Wilson. There definitely some smoke here.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Redskins 2021]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

No Haskins 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Redskins 2021 said:

This is a great list

  I think best case for us is if Rodgers goes to Denver that Las Vegas then trades for russ Wilson and we get David Carr. The problem is I don't know who Seattle would use at QB then. Which makes me thing Seattle will run it back and Carr will not get traded.

 Also I can't see us going into rebranding with out a mid level QB. Which makes me think we get JimmyG. 

I could see a world in which the Raiders and Seahawks swap QBs, with the Raiders sending something additional to Seattle. 

 

The problem is, until the Raiders hire a new GM or new HC, everything to do with them is complete speculation without any basis because the people making the decisions are not even in the building.  

[Est.1974]

That Carr/Adams reunion is going to happen. Some team is getting that done.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

The main thing Heinicke had going for him was his ability to scramble, but for whatever reason it seems like he turned that off a lot this season...even though Rivera and Turner literally said in public that they wanted him to do it more often. So he basically removed his own biggest asset from his game.

He was also a competitive bad ass.  And I really appreciate that.

 

He is also a leader in the locker room, which is important as well.

 

There are a lot of things to like about TH.

 

I would agree that he didn't have elite anything.  He had good pocket awareness, good escapability, good at read progressions. Josh Allen is elite at awareness, elite at escapablity, and elite at read progressions.  If you took Allen's arm and put it on Taylor's body, you would not get Josh Allen.  You would get something less... It would be much better, but not as good.  

 

If he had an NFL arm, with what he's shown, he could be Jimmy G, Derick Carr or Kirk Cousins.  Each of those guys has "good" of a lot of things, but a legitimate NFL arm that can make all of the throws.  Some do some things better than others (Kirk, for example, I think is better on-schedule, and Carr escapes better, etc.). 

 

The problem with TH is that he just can't make throws to force a defense to back off the LOS and cover more field, both horizontally and vertically. So everything is compressed.  Which then makes throws harder....

[KDawg]

I’ll say it again: If we get Carr, Wilson or Rodgers we can get Davante Adams. 
 

Adams + McLaurin… Want to see Dyami Brown all of a sudden go from a guy who looks like he can’t get on the field to a star? That’s how you do it. Samuel and Humphries underneath. 
 

Our passing attack would be stupid. I’ve forced myself to not think about it several times because I actually get excited for the possibility. We know what excitement does for us

 

And again, “Wrong Way” Bostic could be our MIKE with that offense and I’d be fine. Buffalo has TE and MM at LB and Mahomes and that offense still shredded them in crunch time.

 

And with a lead… our defensive line may actually turn things around and be a top 5ish unit from jump street with some maintenance. 
 

Want to see Chase Young breakout? Get Carr and Adams for our offense and find a power back. 
 

Watch Young eat. I know I’d love to see that ****.
 

 

[mistertim]

37 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I think for this to happen the Raiders will have to get Rodgers or Wilson. There definitely some smoke here.

 

Yeah I doubt the Raiders are simply going to trade Carr away for the hell of it without some plan at QB. Though it's pretty much impossible to know what direction they'll go in before they have a GM an HC. If the new GM and HC think it's time for a full-on rebuild then they might just want the draft capital. But even in that case they'd still need to have some sort of plan for QB.

[Burgold]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’ll say it again: If we get Carr, Wilson or Rodgers we can get Davante Adams. 
 

Adams + McLaurin… Want to see Dyami Brown all of a sudden go from a guy who looks like he can’t get on the field to a star? That’s how you do it. Samuel and Humphries underneath. 
 

 

Is that too many "star" receivers? I guess the answer lies in how much you think the current receiving corp was held back by injury and quarterback?

 

Part of me thinks the plan: McClaurin, Samuels, Thomas, McKissic with an emerging Brown and Gibson is one worth actually seeing through with a live NFL arm. That's a lot of speed and a fair amount of talent and potential.

 

Besides, if you have Adams, Mclaurin, Samuels, Thomas, and McKissic all on the field... I don't think there will be opportunities for Brown to be a star. I think he'll be entrenched as the number 4 receiver or 5. If he does emerge then we'd be regretting the cap space being eaten up by either Samuels or Adams.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

What if Aaron or Russ tells the Commanders; they will come but Dan has to make a coaching change. They will have a role in picking their head coach.

 

Would you do it?

 

I would NOT fire Ron.  Unless Rodgers wants to bring either the Ghost of Vince Lombardi or convince Bill Belichick to leave NE to coach here.  

 

Now, if Aaron had an OC or QB coach who he desperately wanted and that guy had a track record, I would consider it.  I would consider it for Wilson also.  Those are the only players I would consider it for, and when I say consider, I mean consider. If I was Ron, I would look at fit within the coaching staff, relationship with the player, past history of success with said player, etc.  If everything checked out, and I thought it was the best way to maximize my investment in Rodgers (or Wilson), I would do it.  

 

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Why cut him? He's a good backup and we have him for cheap this year. That makes no sense.

I would keep TH as a backup to a vet. 

 

I would not keep TH as a backup to a rookie.  The chances are too high he'd have to play early before the rookie is ready, and he can't be the interim starter.  So I'd hire another guy.  I would be fine keeping him as a 3rd string guy, or COVID bubble QB if necessary.  I think you're better with him on the team than not, as long as he's only expected to play if there is an injury.  And hopefully not for 16 games (like this year.  That was just bad luck.)

 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

He's not an NFL QB. I'd rather roll with Allen. He's not good, but belongs in the league. He at least has the physical tools, just not the decision making.

 

Allen definitely has something Heinicke doesn't have. Upside.

For whatever reason, Ron fell out of love with Allen.  I think he would have put him in there to try something at some point with the season over, but he never did.  I don't know why.

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

When he said "we've done everything possible to screw this kid up" I hope he's including himself since he's the boob who hired Judge and allowed Judge to hire Garrett as OC, amongst other things.  I didn't hear the presser, but if I was a reporter, that would have been my follow up: "So, when you say 'we' you mean you too, right?"  

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

According to McClain who covers the Texans and has been mostly spot on thus far.  Denver/Carolina/Miami he expects the derby to be.  Maybe Philly.  Those are the teams that poked around in a big way.  But that was before Flores was canned.

Wasn't Miami BEFORE Flores was canned?  Denver is desperate, and Carolina's owner is desperate.  We'll see. 

 

I just don't think anybody does anything with Watson until his legal issues are concluded.  And what he says today about a "hard no" might change based on money offered and circumstance.

1 hour ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Denver probably going for Rodgers 

Completely agree.  And I think Adams as well. 

1 hour ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Miami no one knows 

My guess is they stick with Tua.  They won 7 or 8 games in a row with him last year, there's no real reason to bail on him yet.

 

1 hour ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Flores is a big wild card will Watson go with him

It's unclear if that's 100% where Watson will go.  but he's the guy who's been most vocal about getting Watson.  

 

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Dominoes here could be quite interesting. Rodgers seems likely to leave Green Bay. For the QB needy teams, the good news is they drafted their heir apparent and will roll with Love for at least 2022.

Are they likely to roll with Love though?  I guess it would depend on how he looked in practice.  I haven't heard glowing things and when he did play, he didn't play well.  It would seem logical, however, if Rodgers goes to a team that has a legitimate starting QB, I could see them wanting that guy back. For example, if he went to the Raiders, I could see the Packers asking for Carr back.  I don't think Seattle and GB will do a deal, though Aaron's clay eating hippy fiancé might like the pacific north west.  

 

Wouldn't that be rich: GB and Seattle swap top-QBs, and everybody else is just left scratching their heads....

 

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

But Rodgers going to Denver (as rumored) would be good for us. It takes Denver out of contention for QB at #9, and takes them out of the veteran QB market as well.

Whispers: Rodgers here would be better. ..

 

However, if Rodgers goes to Denver, then Denver no longer has the #9 pick.  GB would.  And see above, I'm not sure they're in love with Love.  So we'll see what they do.  

 

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I know Hurts played his way into and then possibly out of the future job, but I can't see Philly moving on from him too quickly. So maybe for Watson, but can't see that at this point.

They would for Watson (assuming legal troubles are cleared up.). I don't think they would draft a guy, and I don't think they would swing for Rodgers.  They MIGHT swing for Wilson.  But I don't think Ciara wants to live in Philly.  THOUGH maybe she lives in NY, and commutes back and forth for conjugal visits during the season.  And after the season they live wherever she wants....

 

(I makes jokes about Ciara, but honestly, I think selling her on the location is important.  I think she has some input on where they live.  And I don't have any problem with that at all.)

 

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

If we read the tea-leaves, I would think the Panthers are going QB at #6 ... the Broncos will go hard after Rodgers+Adams ... Giants are out on a veteran QB trade.

I agree.  The Rodgers + Adams thing to Denver makes me sad because I want it here.   

 

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Saints are a mess right now, so they're probably going to go into full-rebuild mode and stockpile picks and take a couple years of lumps given their cap situation and lack of head coach.

I think the Saints are going to take their lumps for the entire Drew Brees era next year.  Unload everybody, trade who they can, get high draft picks for 2023 and start the re-build. There is nothing to try and maintain at this point, you might as well get it all off your books as fast as possible. They are definitely NOT in the top-end QB market.  

 

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Eagles, Broncos *could* be set assuming the above and Hurts getting another crack at it in 2022.

 

Sets up nicely for us and the Panthers being the primary players for QB beyond the above moves so that would mean we could very well get a QB2 at #11 OR we get either Watson or Wilson farly easily.

Everything you typed makes logical sense.  Which means none of it will play out that way.  

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

Is that too many "star" receivers? 

 

 

No.

 

I promise I don't mean to be rude, but the rest of the post is waxing poetic. 

 

Adams and McLaurin aren't really ego guys. 

 

Do you think the Bucs had too many star receivers last year? How about the Rams right now? If they were healthy they'd have Kupp, OBJ and Woods.

 

Samuel isn't a star at this juncture. 

 

If you're asking if our offense would be functional if healthy + having a live armed QB the answer is yes. But Adams and McLaurin will do things to defenses that will absolutely terrify defensive coordinators. 

[CobraCommander]

Just now, Burgold said:

Is that too many "star" receivers? I guess the answer lies in how much you think the current receiving corp was held back by injury and quarterback?

 

Part of me thinks the plan: McClaurin, Samuels, Thomas, McKissic with an emerging Brown and Gibson is one worth actually seeing through with a live NFL arm. That's a lot of speed and a fair amount of talent and potential.

 

Besides, if you have Adams, Mclaurin, Samuels, Thomas, and McKissic all on the field... I don't think there will be opportunities for Brown to be a star. I think he'll be entrenched as the number 4 receiver or 5. If he does emerge then we'd be regretting the cap space being eaten up by either Samuels or Adams.

I only see two "star" receivers listed here. Samuels is not a star receiver. Dyami Brown is not emerging. We need all the weapons we can get our hands on.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@Voice_of_Reason Thanks! I would just say that the Packers cap situation likely forces them to roll with Love for a year. He looked *okay* in his time played, and I would have to imagine they'd give him a shot in Year 3 to take the reins given he's a former 1st round pick and their general pedigree at grooming QBs, that's my default assumption.

 

Cap can be fungible, but Packers are one of the worst set up teams right now. I don't know what offloading Rodgers does for their cap but I think they're about $40 million over right now. It would benefit them to ride the rookie QB contract for at least 1 year. Maybe load up on 2023 picks if they can. Having the 9th pick and a 2023 1st would definitely help in the way of jump-starting the new era there. But they might want to "build the right way" (as I would like to as well here) in building around the young, cheap QB. WOrst case, Love is average, and you swing at QB in 2023 with the Rodgers draft capital. I don't know if going from Rodgers to Carr does much for them or their fanbase.

 

Adams is likely gone, and they are going to lose some talent on the defense as well. So trading Rodgers for a pair of 1sts with Denver, and maybe even using Pick #9 to trade back for more draft capital in 2022 and 2023, would be the prudent move IMO.

Edited January 26, 2022 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Voice_of_Reason]

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’ll say it again: If we get Carr, Wilson or Rodgers we can get Davante Adams. 
 

Adams + McLaurin… Want to see Dyami Brown all of a sudden go from a guy who looks like he can’t get on the field to a star? That’s how you do it. Samuel and Humphries underneath. 
 

Our passing attack would be stupid. I’ve forced myself to not think about it several times because I actually get excited for the possibility. We know what excitement does for us

 

And again, “Wrong Way” Bostic could be our MIKE with that offense and I’d be fine. Buffalo has TE and MM at LB and Mahomes and that offense still shredded them in crunch time.

 

And with a lead… our defensive line may actually turn things around and be a top 5ish unit from jump street with some maintenance. 
 

Want to see Chase Young breakout? Get Carr and Adams for our offense and find a power back. 
 

Watch Young eat. I know I’d love to see that ****.
 

 

So, the problem with the bolded line is I think you need to HAVE Davante Adams to get Carr, Wilson or Rodgers.  But the timing is backwards.

 

The best they can do is get a conversation with Aaron and tell him to tell his buddy we will make him the highest paid WR on the market, don't tell anybody, just come play with me.  BUT that puts you in a complete bind from a negotiation standpoint with Adams.  

 

You just can't get caught tampering.  You can't talk to FAs until the "legal tampering period."  But players can talk to players. And if you drop the hint you'd make Adams the highest paid WR in the league, I think he comes here.

 

I really hadn't considered Carr + Adams.  That would be fun also.  

 

I agree with everything else in your post.  

 

I really don't see them being that aggress.  What's interesting is I thin 2000 Dan Snyder would have been.  2022 Dan isn't going to be.  In this one instance, I want 2000 Dan back. Get that plane fired up and go pick up all the FAs and trades.  

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So, the problem with the bolded line is I think you need to HAVE Davante Adams to get Carr, Wilson or Rodgers.  But the timing is backwards.

 

The best they can do is get a conversation with Aaron and tell him to tell his buddy we will make him the highest paid WR on the market, don't tell anybody, just come play with me.  BUT that puts you in a complete bind from a negotiation standpoint with Adams.  

 

You just can't get caught tampering.  You can't talk to FAs until the "legal tampering period."  But players can talk to players. And if you drop the hint you'd make Adams the highest paid WR in the league, I think he comes here.

 

 

It's not tampering if the players are doing it according to league rules.

 

So THEY can't say anything to the new QB about specifics... on the record. But they can mention they are interested in acquiring a big named wide receiver that the QB would be comfortable with... then let the QB do the work. 

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So, the problem with the bolded line is I think you need to HAVE Davante Adams to get Carr, Wilson or Rodgers.  But the timing is backwards.

 

The best they can do is get a conversation with Aaron and tell him to tell his buddy we will make him the highest paid WR on the market, don't tell anybody, just come play with me.  BUT that puts you in a complete bind from a negotiation standpoint with Adams.  

 

You just can't get caught tampering.  You can't talk to FAs until the "legal tampering period."  But players can talk to players. And if you drop the hint you'd make Adams the highest paid WR in the league, I think he comes here.

 

I really hadn't considered Carr + Adams.  That would be fun also.  

 

I agree with everything else in your post.  

 

I really don't see them being that aggress.  What's interesting is I thin 2000 Dan Snyder would have been.  2022 Dan isn't going to be.  In this one instance, I want 2000 Dan back. Get that plane fired up and go pick up all the FAs and trades.  

 

GB would probably put a non-exclusive franchise tag on Adams and then try and trade him for a 1st. So we may not have the ammo if we give up 2 1sts for Carr.

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If you're asking if our offense would be functional if healthy + having a live armed QB the answer is yes. But Adams and McLaurin will do things to defenses that will absolutely terrify defensive coordinators. 

Imagine a set of McLaurin and Adams on the outside, Samuels in the slot, Bates at TE and Gibson in the backfield.

 

If you're the defense, what do you do?  If you try and play soft coverage, Gibson (with Bates blocking) can run you out of that.  

 

If you stack the line to stop the run, you've got 3 targets which can take the top off the defense.

 

You want to double Adams?  Take him away? Fine, well, then you're leaving either Terry or Samuels in single coverage.

 

Want to play some zone?  Ok, we can flood zones and bust those also.

 

Also, Gibson can motion out and play a little WR, which really puts defenses in a bind. 

 

And none of this has included McKissic (if he's back) Brown, Thomas when he's healthy.

 

If you had the right OC (And I'm not sure if Turner IS the right OC), it could literally be akin to the Greatest Show on Turf Rams of 1999.  Holt, Bruce, Proeh where the 1-3 WRs.  Faulk was the RB, and Hakim was the 4th WR who came in and played.  They didn't even use a TE.  Their TE Roland Williams had 25 catches for 245 yards for the season.  The difference maker was Faulk, who had 1300 yards rushing and 1048 yards receiving.  That offense ran through Faulk, for all the deep passing, the guy that made it go was Faulk.

 

Now, Gibson is NOT Faulk.  In fairness, the only person to ever approximate Faulk was Edgerin James.  But Gibson could absolutely be used in a similar was as the Rams used Faulk.  Move him around, let him run, let him receive, make defenses account for him.

 

If you had Rodgers/Wilson/Carr pulling the trigger, it could be special.

 

** IF the OL is able to protect.  Which I think they will be able to.  

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

It's not tampering if the players are doing it according to league rules.

 

So THEY can't say anything to the new QB about specifics... on the record. But they can mention they are interested in acquiring a big named wide receiver that the QB would be comfortable with... then let the QB do the work. 

That's kindof exactly what I was trying to say.  They "hint hint nudge nudge" it with Rodgers, and then let Rodgers do the rest.  

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

GB would probably put a non-exclusive franchise tag on Adams and then try and trade him for a 1st. So we may not have the ammo if we give up 2 1sts for Carr.

They might.  That would be a good move.  But if I'm Washington (or any other team), i ask them exactly how they are going to get under the cap, because with the franchise tag, they would be close to $70 mil over the cap.  

 

And if they can't trade him, then they're really stuck. And I guarantee you Adams is not going to want to stick around if Rodgers is gone. 

 

GB is in a really tricky spot.  It's not one they CAN'T get out of, but being that far over the cap, you are going to have to make some tough decisions.  They loaded up for this year.  Well, this year is over.  So now what?

[Voice_of_Reason]

22 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@Voice_of_Reason Thanks! I would just say that the Packers cap situation likely forces them to roll with Love for a year. He looked *okay* in his time played, and I would have to imagine they'd give him a shot in Year 3 to take the reins given he's a former 1st round pick and their general pedigree at grooming QBs, that's my default assumption.

 

Cap can be fungible, but Packers are one of the worst set up teams right now. I don't know what offloading Rodgers does for their cap but I think they're about $40 million over right now. It would benefit them to ride the rookie QB contract for at least 1 year. Maybe load up on 2023 picks if they can. Having the 9th pick and a 2023 1st would definitely help in the way of jump-starting the new era there. But they might want to "build the right way" (as I would like to as well here) in building around the young, cheap QB. WOrst case, Love is average, and you swing at QB in 2023 with the Rodgers draft capital. I don't know if going from Rodgers to Carr does much for them or their fanbase.

 

Adams is likely gone, and they are going to lose some talent on the defense as well. So trading Rodgers for a pair of 1sts with Denver, and maybe even using Pick #9 to trade back for more draft capital in 2022 and 2023, would be the prudent move IMO.

There is no reason they couldn't do the same with us.  They could trade Rodgers to us for 2 firsts + a player.  Denver is better for them because it's in the AFC.  

 

I agree, you're right, given their cap, maybe they ride with Love for a year and see what happens...

 

You said "worst case, love is average."  I think worse case is he sucks and you traded up to get him, gave up assets, and pissed off your HOF QB for a guy who can't play.  THAT would be the worst case....

[ExoDus84]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Carolina also has one of the leagues most dynamic players on the block.

 

They're trading Sam Darnold already? Wow.