The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Mrshadow008]

 

[Mrshadow008]

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, formerly4skins said:

 

I think we should all expect a guy who ranked 27th in completion percentage last season to have some accuracy issues...which, is what I take from your summary of his performance. 

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/completion-percentage

 

That said, he's got the arm to stretch the field like we haven't seen in a few seasons, and it's on Turner to run the offense to accentuate his strengths. 

 

We shall soon see how that pairing works out. But, if we're relying on the accuracy of Wentz's arm vs. his ability to use it as a cannon, I think that's a losing strategy. 

I've been railing against completion percentage as a metric of accuracy for about ... 8 years?  And the difference between 27th and 15th is like 1 completion a game.  

 

Ball placement is very important, and Wentz has struggled with that in the past.  we will see how it plays out.  I'm also ok with a tick or two down on completion percentage if it means they are going for more stretch-the-field type throws.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

31 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

 

It's preseason, so you can't take a hell of a lot from it.  

 

But the Colts defense came up SMALL multiple times at the end of last season.  

 

They are going to get tested a bit this season, though, schedule wise:

 

- In their division, they don't have a lot of good QBs, Tanehill probably being the best.  I put him as a top 15 QB at this point, but just barely.  

- They play the NFC East, which includes Wentz (and all THAT baggage) and Dak.  I put both Wentz and Dak as top 15 QBs.  

- They play the AFC West, where they are not going to get a break: Mahomes, Wilson, Carr and Herbert.  All 4 of those are top 15 QBs.

- They get a break with Pittsburg.  

- They have New England.  To me, jury's out on Mac Jones.  I don't think he's really good, but he was a rookie, and Belichick has a track record of getting QBs to perform well. And not just Brady.  

- They have the Vikings and Kurt.  Who is another top 15 QBs.

 

So, Tanehill (twice), Wentz, Dak, Mahomes, Wilson, Carr, Herbert and Kurt for 9 games.  That's not the murderer's row of QBs we had last year, but it's also not a cake walk either.  

 

 

[NoCalMike]

I thought Wentz looked fine, not many high risk/high reward passing out there, which isn't surprising given the situation. Quite frankly,he looked a lot of the Wentz we've seen under center for two other teams.

 

I really look what I saw from Howell and comparing him to Heinicke is a good lesson in why arm strength at the NFL level matters a lot.  The only big picture concern I'd have with Howell as a franchise QB is that due to his size it might make it hard to step up in the pocket and throw accurately over defenders when the pressure is closing in and it could force him to always have to scramble left or right earlier into a play.  Otherwise, he might be the have the most realistic chance of becoming something at QB that we have drafted in awhile.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

My first time really watching Howell...I like his arm! Has to work on accuracy a bit but I really liked what I saw. I don't care who he was going up against. Heinicke could drop to #3, that's how much I liked his game lol. Howell definitely needs development, though.

 

I was glad Wentz did not give me the same "meh" vibes that Fitzpatrick did last preseason...that was my only real worry (and that he might get injured).

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Heinicke could drop to #3, that's how much I liked his game lol.

Heinicke could drop off the roster and into the ocean, and I wouldn't care.  If Howell had to start, I'd prefer him to start as a 5th round rookie with the tools he has and live with the inexperience and rookie mistakes rather than dumb the offense down into a 12X12 box again with TH.  

[NoCalMike]

This is a good time to remind people that Fitzpatrick beat out Heinicke in training camp last year?  Look I don't really want to dump on the guy anymore, I think he did a good job considering his ability-level.  While his physical limitations were on display, he didn't do a ton that forced errors.   That said, when you watched Wentz & Howell under center, there is a certain command (pun....perhaps intended?) of the offense that comes with a QB out there that can put that ball all over the field, wherever the play dictates it needing to be thrown, and a guy out there where every snap is a frantic race to try and loft the ball into a soft zone. 

 

We have seen the best Heinicke has to offer and it had to do for a season, but there's two other QBs on the depth chart now; one if the starter and the other has a high looking ceiling right about now and if I were the coaches I'd be giving him more and more looks with other personnel higher on the depth chart ASAP.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Heinicke could drop off the roster and into the ocean, and I wouldn't care.  If Howell had to start, I'd prefer him to start as a 5th round rookie with the tools he has and live with the inexperience and rookie mistakes rather than dumb the offense down into a 12X12 box again with TH.  

 

The only thing is it's not really us who has to live with it...pretty sure Rivera would consider the inexperience and rookie mistakes harder and more seriously than fans would.

 

if this team were, say, 6-2 and Wentz had to go out for like a month, I'm guessing Rivera isn't gonna want to use that span of games to start developing a rookie QB. If Heinicke were dropped off the roster and into the ocean, I think Ron would replace him with a vet backup and not just elevate Howell.

[Voice_of_Reason]

18 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

The only thing is it's not really us who has to live with it...pretty sure Rivera would consider the inexperience and rookie mistakes harder and more seriously than fans would.

 

if this team were, say, 6-2 and Wentz had to go out for like a month, I'm guessing Rivera isn't gonna want to use that span of games to start developing a rookie QB. If Heinicke were dropped off the roster and into the ocean, I think Ron would replace him with a vet backup and not just elevate Howell.

Yeah, I hear you.  And as I said before, TH is like a Binky for Ron and Scott Turner.  So they might just go with TH no matter what and Howell never gets a chance to even compete for the backup job.  

 

That said, Griffin went down in 2012 with a knee, we were in a must win position, and Shanahan went with Cousins over Grossman to start the Browns game.  Grossman was the "safer" of the options because he started the year before, knew the system from when he was with Kyle in Houston.  

 

But they took a chance on the rookie and it worked out really well.  Now, Cousins had beaten Grossman out for the backup job.   If Howell can't do enough to convince Ron and Scott he can run the offense in a pinch better than TH, then everything else is moot.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, I hear you.  And as I said before, TH is like a Binky for Ron and Scott Turner.  So they might just go with TH no matter what...

 

You made me think of how Ron started Haskins late in the 2020 season when Smith couldn't start because the playoffs were on the line...I thought "When did Haskins become our best chance of making the playoffs?" lol...Ron may be a riverboat gambler on certain plays but I don't think he is when it comes to whom he starts. At the same time I also think that if Howell not just beats out Heinicke for the #2 but runs away with it, he'll toss his "binky" into the closet without a second glance.

[Conn]

Matt Ryan looked mid

[Mrshadow008]

[Koolblue13]

The drop off that happened between Wentz and Howell showed just how little Heinicke belongs on the field. 

[illone]

On 8/12/2022 at 12:29 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

If they try and run the offense the colts ran last year they will suck.  

doesnt that depend on BRob8 😂

 

im kidding, kinda. 
 

agree with your other points, but i always think

of Rich Gannon and Trent Green who are two case studies who developed later in their NFL careers. I think Carson is a guy who can improve and will improve. He certainly has the talent to do so, it seems like his main thing is decision making and staying on schedule. 
 

I dont think this year is a “prove it” year for CW, by all accounts the team is gonna stick w him for a few yrs. 

[KDawg]

Howell might be our long term guy. It’s too early to say it definitively. But i think between him and Wentz QB is sorted for the next few seasons. 
 

We aren’t toiling in QB hell right now at the very least. That’s excellent to know.

 

First round draft capital on a true ILB who is battle tested would be a real sound investment.

[HigSkin]

😂

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I enjoy this.  As I've mentioned I've grown to really hate the Colts.  It's not just the Wentz stuff.  It's they are so smug.  I don't mean to take it out on Ryan since he's not touting himself.  It's the Colts and national media that are in love with him.  But i can't help rooting against him.  😀

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

The drop off that happened between Wentz and Howell showed just how little Heinicke belongs on the field. 

Huh?

 

EDIT: wait, I think I get it now lol…I was thinking you were comparing Wentz and Howell and saying there was a huge drop off when comparing the two…but that’s not what you were saying, right?

Edited August 13, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Huh?

 

EDIT: wait, I think I get it now lol…I was thinking you were comparing Wentz and Howell and saying there was a huge drop off when comparing the two, right?

No. He was saying there wasn’t a huge drop off to warrant Heinicke having a roster spot as the number 2 QB.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I think it’s hard to gauge how rookie QBs will play, and how much they will improve, etc. 

 

But usually, the ones that can play flash early. Much like KC did in his first preseason game. It was obvious he could play in the league.

 

I feel the same way about Howell after today. How good will he be? Not sure. But he can play up here. Excited to see him develop. It’s so rare that your favorite college player goes to your favorite NFL team. Couldn’t pick a better dude to lead us out of the QB desert.

 

At minimum…this team might be fun to watch again. Baby steps.

[No Nonsense]

3 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Huh?

I think he’s saying that Heineke, by far, was a huge drop off from Wentz and Howell. Lol

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

No. He was saying there wasn’t a huge drop off to warrant Heinicke having a roster spot as the number 2 QB.

I thought he was saying Heinicke was the huge drop off that occurred in between Wentz and Howell lol…

Edited August 13, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[mhd24]

The throw from Wentz to Terry on the out was something we couldn't do at all last year.  Such a simple basic play, but Wentz made that look easy.