The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Yeah because the people on the internet were so wrong when they argued Young was a lollipop guild extra rather than a starting QB in this league, or that Zach Wilson was Milf Hunter, rather than a starting QB, or that Kenny Pickett was --- and Sam Howell was better, or that Mitch Trubisky going ahead of Watson and Mahomes were jokes etc.

 

There's no evidence at all that the NFL is any good at this, nor anyone else (to be fair). Everyone sucks at QB eval. 

 

Its sounds like we agree, then. My argument is that you could be wrong about what these numbers mean. There may be more to it. You argue the exact same thing about NFL Pros. 

 

I'm not sure why its causing consternation for me to say that I think your numbers lack context and that the team agrees with me. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong yet. You could be right, and they overcome it anyway. The only thing we know is we don't know for sure. We are in agreement are we not?

[Rufus T Firefly]

19 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Brian Regan, the greatest comedian 90% of the public doesn't know. Absolute genius. 

Complete aside, did you ever watch Loudermilk? Regan showed off some surprising acting chops in that, specifically in season 3. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

53 minutes ago, CTskins said:

Don't fool yourself. The Patriots have had "several decades of turmoil."

 

They made five playoff appearances from their formation in 1960 to the time Kraft bought the franchise (Jan. '94). The only true oasis was 1984-'86, including a surprise Super Bowl run.

 

 No one cares.

 

This is a bad post.

 

Stop making bad posts.

 

Thank you.

[Veretax]

54 minutes ago, illone said:

Burning question:  what number will Tress take now?

THere were some speculating, given setting up for the future, that Tress might elicite some mid to late round draf tpick if traded, then bring in a new punter at a lower salary.

They have the luxury to not do that this year of course.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

24 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 They all suck, to varying degrees. It appears to just be pretty near to impossible to do this well, or to do this effectively at any rate that isn't suggestive that blind luck is the largest proportional piece of the eval that should get the credit. 

 

 

It's honestly pretty amazing how terrible the NFL is at this. I don't completely understand why it's so hard.

 

I understand why baseball prospects miss. You're largely drafting children who aren't going to be playing until their mid 20s, assuming that every tendon in their body doesn't snap before that.

 

When NBA prospects miss, it's usually because of some fatal flaw that everyone was aware of when they drafted him. Like "unable to shoot a basketball well." And NBA surprises tend to be of the Giannis variety of "We knew he could be pretty good, but then he grew 5 inches and gained 50 pounds but somehow got more athletic."

 

The NFL makes no sense. I watched this guy be good against high level competition for three years. And then I measured all his physical tools. And it was good. And then he forgot how to play football.

 

I liked it better when cocaine could be blamed.

[Dah-Dee]

https://heavy.com/sports/nfl/las-vegas-raiders/jayden-daniels-jack-jones-commanders/

 

Raiders Star Suggests Jayden Daniels Isn’t Happy With Landing Spot

For the last several months, the Las Vegas Raiders were heavily linked to LSU quarterback Jayden Daniels. Antonio Pierce was his recruiting coordinator at Arizona State and cornerback Jack Jones was his teammate.

 

Jones didn’t hide the fact that he thought Daniels would be a good fit in Las Vegas. However, it’s not going to happen after the Washington Commanders selected the Heisman Trophy winner with the No. 2 pick. Shortly after the news broke, Jones noticed Daniels’ body language and suggested he wasn’t happy with the landing spot.

 

“I know that look he ain’t wanna go there,” Jones wrote in an April 25 X post.

[The Consigliere]

14 hours ago, Conn said:

Okay okay okay. I’m on board. The dude knows what he wants, what he sees, what he plans to do. I’m all-in (with my preexisting concerns lurking). 
 

Peters is a stud btw. He’s clearly built for this, but he’s also already got the media here in the palm of his hand, effortlessly. That’s going to come in handy in the coming years. 

First thing I notice is "best deep ball passer in the draft". That's my first b.s. line. He was that in '23, he was actively poor at that '19-'22.

 

Go through reads, deliver on time, deliver with pressure. I don't think there's a lot of evidence for any of that piece other than the "process" which everyone seems to score well. Reads-widespread disagreement, deliver on time, definitely not true based on multiple reports, he was not throwing guys open....

 

I like the comments on Kliff and Jayden, happy that the transition for him should be simpler because of their mutual familiarity.

 

I also like what he said about Top Golf, a lot of great process/best practices kind of talk. Nice. Always evaluating the quality of your process.

 

I like his support of the men and women who kept the team "the silent service" so to speak. No mega leaking.

 

I like the "decisive" view of his running, not sure how much of that is intuitive...but i still like the idea that he's making decisions quickly. 

 

I'd love to hear more about how he is effective at making his reads, and the correlated bit about VR at LSU (not sure if he mentions that). 

 

I'm not a fan of the Kliff role in the process, but I also feel like Peters owns this decision and didn't defer to OC/HC which is how I want it. 

 

Pass Codes on the Door: So Stay early, leave late.....

 

My question on that is people make a point of how hard he worked '22 and '23....so, was he the same at ASU, and if it wasn't, why?

 

"Man, not college kid". Kinda like that.

 

He does come off as very savvy, very modern, not old had Lombardi, or the more recently canned --- hats like Gettellman and Dorsey. 

 

Really like Peters coming off that.

 

Hasn't changed my mind about anything, but I'm very hopeful he's right, and I'm wrong about Jayden, and to be fair, I don't get the same thing as the Zach Wilson: "No way is this guy hitting" vibe, I'm just deeply alarmed at stuff. Some of the things he said in the conference I wouldn't say assuaged my fears, but they moved me more to a not cautiously optimistic, but more, hopeful that eventually I see enough to feel that way. 

 

Interesting to see that. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Redd]

Then the Raiders should’ve trade everything to get him🤷

[The Consigliere]

13 hours ago, skinsarethebest said:

Kirk Cousins was fools gold.  Carson Wentz was fools good.  Sam Howell was fools gold.  They were all comps for Drake Maye, whom I would consider to have been the ultimate fools good.

 
JD will not be fools good.  You can mark my words. 

We don't know what Sam was, the metrics were good until the team quit (and admittedly he faced much better defenses the final 7 or 8 games). We'll know what sam is given more time. Needless to say, you and I disagree entirely on this lol. We'll see though. I don't have your confidence, even about Maye, who I liked much more than Daniels, but time will tell. I hope and pray your right about Daniels. I don't think you are about Howell or Maye. We'll see on those two. I think Howell could be a league average QB in this league because he already was that in September and October before the team quit, and Maye has elite tools even if he landed in a disaster site. Hopefully he survives New England's god awful roster thand their totally entitled --- hat fans. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Who the **** is Randal??

 

Randal-El?

 

Can someone correct the title of this thread so we don't all look like morons?

 

While we are at it, if we have to compare him to a black guy, can it be a black guy from this century? We look dumb and old.

[srtman04]

7 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

https://heavy.com/sports/nfl/las-vegas-raiders/jayden-daniels-jack-jones-commanders/

 

Raiders Star Suggests Jayden Daniels Isn’t Happy With Landing Spot

For the last several months, the Las Vegas Raiders were heavily linked to LSU quarterback Jayden Daniels. Antonio Pierce was his recruiting coordinator at Arizona State and cornerback Jack Jones was his teammate.

 

Jones didn’t hide the fact that he thought Daniels would be a good fit in Las Vegas. However, it’s not going to happen after the Washington Commanders selected the Heisman Trophy winner with the No. 2 pick. Shortly after the news broke, Jones noticed Daniels’ body language and suggested he wasn’t happy with the landing spot.

 

“I know that look he ain’t wanna go there,” Jones wrote in an April 25 X post.

 

Sounds like the Raiders are butt-hurt for not giving the draft farm for the opportunity.   Yay us....poor them.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

Just now, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Who the **** is Randal??

 

Randal-El?

 

Can someone correct the title of this thread so we don't all look like morons?

 

While we are at it, if we have to compare him to a black guy, can it be a black guy from this century? We look dumb and old.

I assume it's Randall Cunningham, though it's missing an L.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Just now, Rufus T Firefly said:

I assume it's Randall Cunningham, though it's missing an L.

 

Thats my assumption too. I would like a comparison to someone whose highlights are not all in standard def.

[BayouBrave86]

2 hours ago, Veretax said:

After seeing those shirt,s with the live arm that Daniels has... how long before he gets the nick name
Jayden 5, He's alive
With a picture of him and the Short Circuit robot Johnny Five on it

Outstanding

[The Consigliere]

8 hours ago, fwo40 said:

I feel like this board is more negative on the Daniels pick than it was when Haskins was drafted. That's insane to me.

Haskins was a dice roll, we were prepared for him to suck. It was a terrible QB draft with no great QB prospects beyond Murray. We knew they were stupid to ignore QB in '18, and had to address it in '19 or '20 or '21 (used the wrong drafts as per usual until this year), and so thank god they didnt trade up for danny nickels. That's how I felt anyway. I knew we sucked, maybe Haskins would hit maybe not, I had no idea, but I knew the '20 and '21 classes looked loaded, and if Haskins missed we'd have great pick(s) those years and the one thing we couldn't do was trade up for obvious future bust Danny Nickels, we didn't, so honestly that draft was a sigh of relief that we didn't waste future picks pursuing a sure bust in Nickels. That's why i wasn't as mad. This draft Daniels was for me, the highest risk pick of the top 4 guys, maybe even top 5, he was the one I LEAST wanted and viewed as the lowest of the floors. I HATE the pick, that being said, he has a super high ceiling, and I'm wrong on who hits plenty, but I'd be much more relieved if we'd landed Caleb or Drake, Jayden is a holding your breath and praying pick for me, JJ was more a fantasy, "could this guy actually be another wonderboy like Tom, or is this pure fantasy like it looks, and regardless, JJ's profile suggests league average starter, not injured out of the league or mega bust like Daniels risks". As I mentioned earlier though, its funny, in some ways, Daniels is the best kind of pick because it really does seem like:

You get that grand slam like Lamar

You get a total bust like RGIII

 

So you're either dancing for years, or your right back to the top of the draft in '25 or '26 to go back to the QB well like Chicago, NYG, NYJ, Arizona have been in recent years, and that is a much better result than landing a guy like JJ's floor which is, basically like Derek Carr career production (not bad, not good, just blah). So in that sense, I could see it. Of course another potential out for Daniels is the Fields scenario, where the athleticism gives you good things, but he fails as a thrower, that is also a terrible middle ground like JJ seemed (JJ has a GREAT landing spot though so he might be fine). 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

7 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Haskins was a dice roll, we were prepared for him to suck. It was a terrible QB draft with no great QB prospects beyond Murray. We knew they were stupid to ignore QB in '18, and had to address it in '19 or '20 or '21 (used the wrong drafts as per usual until this year), and so thank god they didnt trade up for danny nickels. That's how I felt anyway. I knew we sucked, maybe Haskins would hit maybe not, I had no idea, but I knew the '20 and '21 classes looked loaded, and if Haskins missed we'd have great pick(s) those years and the one thing we couldn't do was trade up for obvious future bust Danny Nickels, we didn't, so honestly that draft was a sigh of relief that we didn't waste future picks pursuing a sure bust in Nickels. That's why i wasn't as mad.

 

You really committed to this Danny Nickles thing. 

[Ghost of]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

Might just be the biggest bs artist in the entire culinary world, that dude.

 

Should add, I am the Dead Sea of saltiness when it comes to the selection at 2. 

Brian Regan, the greatest comedian 90% of the public doesn't know. Absolute genius. 

 

"Enjoy the movie, sir"

'you too!'

[FootballZombie]

16 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

Sounds like the Raiders are butt-hurt for not giving the draft farm for the opportunity.   Yay us....poor them.  

 

Davonte Adams and Pierce are not the only ones who wanted JD it seems...

Half of Vegas was thirsty.

 

Ah well, I'm sure they will be just fine with *looks up Raiders QB*..... Oh..... Oh naw....

 

 

 

I'll take the impending Davante meltdown off their hands for a 7th.

[The Consigliere]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

I agree, but those that are throwing in the towel are a big time outlier. MOST of the concern here is entirely based on durability concerns and not being out on the regime. 

 

There would have been over the top nonsense for any of the picks. 

Yeah, probably less if it was Maye, but just because this board happens to be more pro-Maye, there are other parts of the fan base that are more pro-Daniels. Depends what part of the cohort you're associating with. But yeah, after Williams (and even he has a ton of haters), there's no prospect that had overall close to universal support and with Caleb, that's even true, but w/our fanbase in particular there's a set that's just terrified of RGIII and an even larger set that just see's a lot of alarming pieces in his profile, there was never gonna be consensus on him until he kills it and sustains it in the NFL and flames out horribly. Hopefully its the former. I can see that happening. 

8 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Im all in. Lets go run this division. 

I am kinda confused on this sorta take. I've seen it from a few skeptics. I guess its: "what's done is done," can't change it. But? My eval of him is my eval of him, I can't pretend I think he's better than Maye just because we selected him. I do not....so maybe we're kind of just talking across each other. I mean, I'm all in on the idea that hopefully I'm totally wrong. But I also haven't changed my opinion at all. If I'm wrong, he'll show me that I am, and I won't indulge in take lock, once I'm persuaded, but I'm definitely not all in on him as the #2 guy in the class, I had him #3 or #4, not sure which as I keep going back and forth. 

[BayouBrave86]

7 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Yeah, probably less if it was Maye, but just because this board happens to be more pro-Maye, there are other parts of the fan base that are more pro-Daniels. Depends what part of the cohort you're associating with. But yeah, after Williams (and even he has a ton of haters), there's no prospect that had overall close to universal support and with Caleb, that's even true, but w/our fanbase in particular there's a set that's just terrified of RGIII and an even larger set that just see's a lot of alarming pieces in his profile, there was never gonna be consensus on him until he kills it and sustains it in the NFL and flames out horribly. Hopefully its the former. I can see that happening. 

I am kinda confused on this sorta take. I've seen it from a few skeptics. I guess its: "what's done is done," can't change it. But? My eval of him is my eval of him, I can't pretend I think he's better than Maye just because we selected him. I do not....so maybe we're kind of just talking across each other. I mean, I'm all in on the idea that hopefully I'm totally wrong. But I also haven't changed my opinion at all. If I'm wrong, he'll show me that I am, and I won't indulge in take lock, once I'm persuaded, but I'm definitely not all in on him as the #2 guy in the class, I had him #3 or #4, not sure which as I keep going back and forth. 

Well I am very glad you were not the one making the pick last night. 

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, BayouBrave86 said:

Yet JJ is heralded by some on this board for being a winner and his competitive spirit. Which is it? I can’t keep up.

I do agree w/that, JJ gets a lot of "mystique" around winning a championship for some. I don't buy it period, though I think it's nice he's won every where, being an elite NFL QB to high school or college titles is for me like being a paper airplane to say Voyager II. They are just VASTLY different scales and requirements. One's heading outside our solar system 1 light second at a time, the other is something you toss around in the classroom when the teacher aint looking. "winning" at the college level is immaterial. The truly great, HOF bound QB's of the post 1983 class era? None of those guys won in college: Favre-nope, Brady: with Griese starting, Manning: Florida's -----, Brees-it was Purdue-man, McNabb: lol it was Syracuse, Ben Roth: Miami of Ohio, are you ----ing me? Rivers: what was it NC State? Please, Rodgers: he was my alma matter Cal's QB, they were good in '04 and got robbed of a BCS bowl game by Texas, Matt Ryan was Boston College, Stafford was on a great Georgia team but they didn't win, Newton was on a great Auburn team so there's him, Luck was on a great Stanford team for Stanford standards, Wilson played for Wisconsin, Mahomes was I think Texas Tech, Watson is an example, Josh Allen definitely wasn't, nor was Lamar, nor was Kyler, Joe burrow was, Justin Herbert wasn't, Lawrence was but is mid for now, Stroud was on a great team...overall a couple of great teams-great QB's:

Stafford

Newton

Luck

Watson

Burrow

Stroud

 

Are the only exceptions, but did any of them win titles? Did Burrow win? Maybe, none of the others did.

 

Winning is immaterial. College is way too complicated to have QB's defined by W-L record, and JJ is boosted for sure by that title. Otoh, I think he was always 1st round, early 2nd bound. He's got enough juice for that, but if Michigan played like early Michigan, he probably is a day 2 guy. 

[Bacon]

1 hour ago, CTskins said:

Don't fool yourself. The Patriots have had "several decades of turmoil."

 

They made five playoff appearances from their formation in 1960 to the time Kraft bought the franchise (Jan. '94). The only true oasis was 1984-'86, including a surprise Super Bowl run.

 

Between '89 and '95, they were 4th or 5th in their division 6x winning 2 games or less twice. Then there was also the Lisa Olsen Scandal around the same time, Hart Lee Dykes incident(s), Victor Kiam and Sam Orthwein wanting to relocate, and various other "bad luck" events that plagued the franchise. All the while playing home games in a "stadium" that some Texas High School programs would go, "Nah, we're good."

 

The better tackle football in those days took place in the gravel parking lots.

And I still would be totally okay with them not winning another game for the next 20 years.

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, profusion said:

 

It didn't matter whom we picked. You don't leave last year's Day 1 starter on the team as a benchwarmer. We don't need Sonny vs. Billy situation.

 

No one's going to be calling for Mariota if Jayden starts off with a few stumbles.

Who cares, these guys aren't 4 year olds. Sonny and Billy, or maybe just Billy told Joey T to sit down, shut the ---- up and return punts, they need to grow a pair if they are threatened. 

[The Consigliere]

5 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

Why is it sick to want the best backup we can get? I apologize for not having your perspective on the subject. I will look into that and make corrections.

Especially if like me, you think Howell could be a league average starter in this league. High floor etc. I don't view it as sick and considering I've seen like 2 posts about Howell out of like 2000 the past week, I don't think people are fixating on it either. It's just odd he was traded w/o the Maye angle. But maybe the view was pretty simple: He only had 2 years left on his deal, he was definitely leaving, and this was the best return we were going to get (I can get that argument, it is reasonably sound). 

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah he eleborated quite a bit this morning.  Came off like the opposite what some in the thread thought which is that Peters came here in part because he loved Maye.  Keim pretty much said a dude who works there knew from the jump that Peters loved Daniels. Right from the start.

 

Yeah as far as the JJ part of it.  The thing that hits me about it is that they clearly didn't love Maye.    

Yeah, I think the point all along was the #2 pick in the best QB class in a long long long time, was why he came here. Simple as that. I had hoped his target was Maybe, but I always figured it was the 2nd pick in a stacked QB class that was the draw, not a specific player. Interesting to consider that it might have been Daniels himself or simply the pick+QB class. If this was '19 or '22 it would have been far less attractive. 

Edited April 26 by The Consigliere

[profusion]

7 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Who cares, these guys aren't 4 year olds. Sonny and Billy, or maybe just Billy told Joey T to sit down, shut the ---- up and return punts, they need to grow a pair if they are threatened. 

 

The guys who are paying JD millions of dollars and banking their own futures on his success care very much. The Commanders are in "recalibration" mode, not win-now mode.

 

When JD is up and running as an established starter and the Commanders are contending, then definitely bring in the upscale backup QB.