The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Rex Tomb]

11 minutes ago, GardenStateSkins said:

I saw this article (Ideal Top Two Picks For Every Team) from Chad Reuter on NFL.com this morning and it literally made my eye twitch. 

 

So, because they took Brock Purdy with the very last pick in the draft two years ago, and he happened to work out, they're going to pick JJ McCarthy 2nd overall because he is similar to Brock Purdy?

 

 

 

 

[WashingtonRedWolves]

10 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

If it’s Daniels draft night it’s going to take me a while to adjust to the idea. I have my 3rd/4th grade flag football practice that night and a big game Friday night so I will have a distraction. 
 

Btw, I think I’m the only Commanders team that has had sustained success at any age group! We were undefeated last season and 4-0 so far this year. When people around the park in south Orange County California hear Commanders they think football powerhouse! My QB is a dual threat baller. Should be ready for the 2035 draft.
 

Always good to see the cowboys near the bottom of the division

[Going Commando]

8 hours ago, skinny21 said:

It’s a huge advantage for Daniels, and one of several reasons I lean towards Maye.  I do have a question though - those two were with him in 2022, so why do they become the rationale (or maybe primary driver) for his improvement in 2023?

 

They were good in 2022 and became dominant in 2023.  Nabers was good but made the leap to best WR in the country in 23, and Thomas made an even bigger individual leap. The OL also got really good in 23.  Kayshon Boutte was pretty good in 2022, but Kyren Lacy is better and will probably end up being a better NFL prospect.  It's crazy how good LSU is at putting these receiver rooms together.

 

It's also crazy how much NFL talent at receiver and RB Jayden has played with in college.  Even at AZ St he got to play with Rachaad White, Eno Benjamin, Ricky Pearsall, Johnny Wilson, and Brandon Aiyuk.  That's a better group of skill players than Drake Maye played with at UNC.  Jayden never had to carry the load the same way, or worry about unreliability or an inability to run the ball or win on the outside.  His mom looks really ugly for trashing those guys when he transferred, not to mention she was just wrong about them not being good enough.  Now Pearsall and Wilson are going to be Day 2 draft picks.

[Warhead36]

13 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

They were good in 2022 and became dominant in 2023.  Nabers was good but made the leap to best WR in the country in 23, and Thomas made an even bigger individual leap. The OL also got really good in 23.  Kayshon Boutte was pretty good in 2022, but Kyren Lacy is better and will probably end up being a better NFL prospect.  It's crazy how good LSU is at putting these receiver rooms together.

 

It's also crazy how much NFL talent at receiver and RB Jayden has played with in college.  Even at AZ St he got to play with Rachaad White, Eno Benjamin, Ricky Pearsall, Johnny Wilson, and Brandon Aiyuk.  That's a better group of skill players than Drake Maye played with at UNC.  Jayden never had to carry the load the same way, or worry about unreliability or an inability to run the ball or win on the outside.  His mom looks really ugly for trashing those guys when he transferred, not to mention she was just wrong about them not being good enough.  Now Pearsall and Wilson are going to be Day 2 draft picks.

Yep that's another issue I have with Daniels. He's never dealt with real adversity in terms of his supporting cast. He'll end up playing with THREE WRs who are 1st round picks(Nabors and Thomas jr this year, Aiyuk a few years ago). That isn't even factoring in all the other guys you mentioned. 

 

I want a guy who can elevate his team. We know Maye can. You remove Maye from UNC and they might win 2 games. Look at their bowl game when he didn't play, they got waxed by a mediocre WVU program. Meanwhile LSU still lit it up without Daniels.

[HogsVa7]

Some of you guys are going to get your feelings hurt when we draft Daniels. It's obvious what we're going to do. The free agent signings has a lot to do with how we are improving the team. They have clearly said we are not in a rebuild mode but we are going to be competitive and compete for Super Bowls. Drake Maye doesn't do anything for us this year if he's on this team. He has a lot of work to do. He doesn't have the IT factor. He's not a game changer at all. Some of yall think I'm trolling,  but im not. I've seen just about all his games because I'm a die hard Uva fan which lol.... doesn't say much but they beat him, so I've seen plenty of ACC football this year. Stay away from him. His mechanics is awful and just with the eye test he doesn't have it. Jayden Daniels right now fits us better especially with Kliff Kingsbury system.  A lot of you guys always project for the future. It's always next year and build for the future. The Snyder era has gotten to yall. Their is a new regime and they're ready to roll. It Daniels. 

[Ghost of]

16 minutes ago, HogsVa7 said:

Some of you guys are going to get your feelings hurt when we draft Daniels. It's obvious what we're going to do. The free agent signings has a lot to do with how we are improving the team. They have clearly said we are not in a rebuild mode but we are going to be competitive and compete for Super Bowls. Drake Maye doesn't do anything for us this year if he's on this team. He has a lot of work to do. He doesn't have the IT factor. He's not a game changer at all. Some of yall think I'm trolling,  but im not. I've seen just about all his games because I'm a die hard Uva fan which lol.... doesn't say much but they beat him, so I've seen plenty of ACC football this year. Stay away from him. His mechanics is awful and just with the eye test he doesn't have it. Jayden Daniels right now fits us better especially with Kliff Kingsbury system.  A lot of you guys always project for the future. It's always next year and build for the future. The Snyder era has gotten to yall. Their is a new regime and they're ready to roll. It Daniels. 

 

Although I think of some of your post is a little antagonistic, I think you touch on something to consider.  

 

Is the new NFL approach to QBs to get early success under the first contract and perhaps be content the guy is not an all-time great? If that's the case, you really would want to compete right out of the game, see if you can win a SB (or at least get there) by year 4.  I disagree with this sort of logic but I have seen some indications and articles that talk about a new approach with QBs, especially since so many are coming in with the ability to extend or win games with their legs.  Yes, you'd prefer a 15 year guy who starts with ability to move and becomes progressively more of a surgeon as he ages and you win a SB or two.  But if you are uncertain about your shot at hitting on "legend" maybe you take a shot on a guy like RG3 (but assuming health) who you could build a scheme around for a few years while they either a) develop into a strong passer or b) you see that they're not it past a certain point and you can move on.

[Llevron]

20 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

 Meanwhile LSU still lit it up without Daniels.

 

They did? Did he miss significant time? 

[rumplestilskin]

23 minutes ago, HogsVa7 said:

Some of you guys are going to get your feelings hurt when we draft Daniels. It's obvious what we're going to do. The free agent signings has a lot to do with how we are improving the team. They have clearly said we are not in a rebuild mode but we are going to be competitive and compete for Super Bowls. Drake Maye doesn't do anything for us this year if he's on this team. He has a lot of work to do. He doesn't have the IT factor. He's not a game changer at all. Some of yall think I'm trolling,  but im not. I've seen just about all his games because I'm a die hard Uva fan which lol.... doesn't say much but they beat him, so I've seen plenty of ACC football this year. Stay away from him. His mechanics is awful and just with the eye test he doesn't have it. Jayden Daniels right now fits us better especially with Kliff Kingsbury system.  A lot of you guys always project for the future. It's always next year and build for the future. The Snyder era has gotten to yall. Their is a new regime and they're ready to roll. It Daniels. 

Thank you for the revelations Nostadomus. Your argument can be found on any of the gazillion pages on this thread.

Edited April 15 by rumplestilskin

[Tress Is The Way]

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

They did? Did he miss significant time? 

He didn't miss significant time but he was in concussion protocol after the Alabama game 

[FootballZombie]

Patriots have already met w/ JD and Maye.

They had dinner w/ JJ last night and are meeting with him today.

 

I don't think they have met w/ any other "down the list" QBs. It still feels like they are gonna stay put and take a QB.

Hopefully its the remainder of the big 3 to box out the Giants.

 

 

 

 

 

[Llevron]

17 minutes ago, Tress Is The Way said:

He didn't miss significant time but he was in concussion protocol after the Alabama game 

 

I'm confused. He played the next game. 

 

I'm not the argument police but its weird to make up hypotheticals like LSU (would have?) played well without Daniels....when they didn't and where never in position to. There is enough real data out there on him to obsess over.

 

Edit: got it - yes I am as dumb in person as I seem online. 

Edited April 15 by Llevron

[goskins10]

 

 

24 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

 

Although I think of some of your post is a little antagonistic, I think you touch on something to consider.  

 

Is the new NFL approach to QBs to get early success under the first contract and perhaps be content the guy is not an all-time great? If that's the case, you really would want to compete right out of the game, see if you can win a SB (or at least get there) by year 4.  I disagree with this sort of logic but I have seen some indications and articles that talk about a new approach with QBs, especially since so many are coming in with the ability to extend or win games with their legs.  Yes, you'd prefer a 15 year guy who starts with ability to move and becomes progressively more of a surgeon as he ages and you win a SB or two.  But if you are uncertain about your shot at hitting on "legend" maybe you take a shot on a guy like RG3 (but assuming health) who you could build a scheme around for a few years while they either a) develop into a strong passer or b) you see that they're not it past a certain point and you can move on.

 

 

I understand what you are saying but I would phrase it slightly different - It's not that they plan to be OK with say an average starter and look for another one instead of sign them to a second much more costly contract..It's that those 15 yr franchise QBs are very hard to find. It's more a plan for the worst but hope for the best type thing. So you hopefully build your team with the idea you will get OK performance from your QB. But if you get that franchise guy you pay him and be happy. 

 

There are no certainties in this entire evaluation process. The best of experts will tell you that. So many fans think because they said someone would bust and they did, it's just obvious and they are smarter than the guys being paid. Fact is 1st rd QBs historically fail at about a 78% clip. So they had a 4 or 5 chance in being right even if they knew nothing at all. So statistically speaking of the 5 to 6 QBs likely to be taken in this years 1st rd, only 1 will be a long term starter - not a long term franchise top 5 QB, just someone who can be that Kirk Cousins type QB - never going to carry the team but is compentent enough that if you give him decent support you can win a lot of games (this was NOT to start a Kirk Cousins discussion - just making a point and using him as an example).

 

 

Edited April 15 by goskins10

[Tress Is The Way]

Just now, Llevron said:

 

I'm confused. He played the next game. 

 

I'm not the argument police but its weird to make up hypotheticals like LSU (would have?) played well without Daniels....when they didn't and where never in position to. There is enough real data out there on him to obsess over.

I wasn't the one who said that lol, LSU was actually getting roasted that game even with JD in.

[CommanderInTheRye]

I know there's  a lot at stake here,  as some people have emotionally committed themselves to one qb or the other. So that this becomes a win lose proposition for them. I get that.

 

Hopefully, as we get to the end of this ordeal the factions won't tear each other apart.

 

Let's try and lighten things up just a little...

 

XXXX

 

Schefter just reported that Jayden Daniels has hired a new personal chef to cook all of his meals,  regardless of who drafts him, in a last ditch attempt to gain weight...

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited April 15 by CommanderInTheRye

[Llevron]

Just now, Tress Is The Way said:

I wasn't the one who said that lol, LSU was actually getting roasted that game even with JD in.

 

Yea I feel like that was his worst game passing. Dude was very sus but no one agrees with me. 

[e16bball]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I'm confused. He played the next game. 

 

I'm not the argument police but its weird to make up hypotheticals like LSU (would have?) played well without Daniels....when they didn't and where never in position to. There is enough real data out there on him to obsess over.

He sat out the bowl game, which is the point the original post was making. LSU still beat Wisconsin, scored 35 points with Nussmeier in at QB — without Jayden and mostly without Nabers. Turns out Brian Thomas, Kyren Lacy, and deeply underrated (and unutilized by Jayden) Mason Taylor is still a lot of weapons for any QB, and the OL was still elite. 
 

UNC, on the other hand, got thrashed by WVU without Maye. 

[Dah-Dee]

26 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

They were good in 2022 and became dominant in 2023.  Nabers was good but made the leap to best WR in the country in 23, and Thomas made an even bigger individual leap. The OL also got really good in 23.  Kayshon Boutte was pretty good in 2022, but Kyren Lacy is better and will probably end up being a better NFL prospect.  It's crazy how good LSU is at putting these receiver rooms together.

 

It's also crazy how much NFL talent at receiver and RB Jayden has played with in college.  Even at AZ St he got to play with Rachaad White, Eno Benjamin, Ricky Pearsall, Johnny Wilson, and Brandon Aiyuk.  That's a better group of skill players than Drake Maye played with at UNC.  Jayden never had to carry the load the same way, or worry about unreliability or an inability to run the ball or win on the outside.  His mom looks really ugly for trashing those guys when he transferred, not to mention she was just wrong about them not being good enough.  Now Pearsall and Wilson are going to be Day 2 draft picks.

 

Standard disclaimer: I want Maye.

 

I prefer Maye over Daniels but the hand-waving-away for Daniels' improvement gets annoying. We're supposed to write off Daniels' last season as a one-year wonder, but not blink at the similar drastic improvement we saw from Nabers and Thomas? Come on people.  It was Daniels who started hitting the film room every single weekday at 5:30 a.m., and was subsequently joined by teammates as word got out; it was Daniels who called players-only meetings to ask his WRs for feedback on what he could do better to help them excel; it was Daniels who organized late-night throwing sessions with his receivers on Friday nights while other students were out partying. Daniels was, as a previous poster put it the last time I brought this up, the rising tide that lifted all ships. 

 

And that LSU offense was under the gun every week to light it up, because the Tigers had a crap defense. In the 3 games LSU lost last year, they gave up 42, 45 and 55 points. So the pressure on Daniels was different, but it was there.

 

The talent argument is similarly overblown. Johnny Wilson, for example, has a 16.1% career drop rate. Holy crap. And Tez Walker's drop rate wasn't great (8.5%), but it wasn't that much worse than arguably the #1 WR prospect, MJH (6.9%). Yes, Daniels generally played with better talent at LSU than Maye had at UNC - but the gap isn't nearly as big as some make it out to be; PFF had UNC rated above average among Power 5 schools last year for supporting cast.  Prime example: I hardly ever see a peep in here about the fact that Maye's backfield partner last year was 1,500-yard, All-American RB Omarion Hampton, one of three finalists for the Doak Walker Award given to the nation's best RB.  If Hampton doesn't run for 234 yards and 3 TDs against Appalachian, UNC loses that game. To freaking Appalachian!  If he doesn't go off for 169 and a TD versus Duke, they lose that game too. 178 and 2 TD versus Clemson; 153 and 2 TD against Ga. Tech; 197 and a TD against Miami.  Stop telling me Maye didn't have any help and certainly don't tell me he had to worry about UNC not being able to run the ball.

 

These are weak arguments against Daniels being the pick and just make Maye supporters look bad/desperate. The better arguments are the obvious ones: Daniels' lesser arm strength, bad stable metrics, propensity to run vs. pass under pressure, apparent reluctance to throw over the middle, reckless running combined with a slight frame. 

 

[Llevron]

Just now, e16bball said:

He sat out the bowl game, which is the point the original post was making. LSU still beat Wisconsin, scored 35 points with Nussmeier in at QB — without Jayden and mostly without Nabers. Turns out Brian Thomas, Kyren Lacy, and deeply underrated (and unutilized by Jayden) Mason Taylor is still a lot of weapons for any QB, and the OL was still elite. 
 

UNC, on the other hand, got thrashed by WVU without Maye. 

 

Ah - thank you. I knew it didnt make sense that W36 woudl just make up junk. 

 

UNC was trash in general. If it wasn't for may they would have won 2 games. 

[rumplestilskin]

2 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

I know there's  a lot at stake here,  as some people have emotionally committed themselves to one qb or the other. So that this becomes a win lose proposition. I get that.

 

Hopefully, as we get to the end of this ordeal the factions won't tear each other apart.

 

Let's try and lighten things up just a little...

 

XXXX

 

Schefter just reported that Jayden Daniels has hired a new personal chef to cook all of his meals,  regardless of who drafts him, in a last ditch attempt to gain weight...

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think only HGH and Roids can cure him of his stringbean physique. 

[FootballZombie]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I'm confused. He played the next game. 

 

I'm not the argument police but its weird to make up hypotheticals like LSU (would have?) played well without Daniels....when they didn't and where never in position to. There is enough real data out there on him to obsess over.

 

I think they were referring to the end of the year Bowl game where the QBs naturally sat out as they were moving on to the NFL. LSU managed to beat Wisconson in a bowl game minus JD.

 

 

Of course that was also pitting the 13th ranked 10-3 LSU from the SEC vs un-ranked Wisconson who was 7-6 from the Big 10.

 

 

 

[Dah-Dee]

8 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I'm confused. He played the next game. 

 

I'm not the argument police but its weird to make up hypotheticals like LSU (would have?) played well without Daniels....when they didn't and where never in position to. There is enough real data out there on him to obsess over.

 

To be fair, I think Warhead was talking about the bowl game this year, where Daniels opted out and Nussmeier had a good game.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

11 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

Btw, I think I’m the only Commanders team that has had sustained success at any age group! We were undefeated last season and 4-0 so far this year. When people around the park in south Orange County California hear Commanders they think football powerhouse! My QB is a dual threat baller. Should be ready for the 2035 draft.
 

If you ever want to talk flag football, hollar at your boy.

[Warhead36]

31 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

They did? Did he miss significant time? 

I was referring to the bowl game which he opted out of.

13 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

To be fair, I think Warhead was talking about the bowl game this year, where Daniels opted out and Nussmeier had a good game.

Yep exactly. My point is that Daniels has basically always had a stacked(or at least well above average) supporting cast as evidenced by his backup lighting it up.

 

When Maye's backup had to play in their bowl game, UNC looked downright atrocious and got smashed by W freaking VU.

 

Maye elevated that program and was the only reason they even had a chance.

[skinny21]

50 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

They were good in 2022 and became dominant in 2023.  Nabers was good but made the leap to best WR in the country in 23, and Thomas made an even bigger individual leap. The OL also got really good in 23.  Kayshon Boutte was pretty good in 2022, but Kyren Lacy is better and will probably end up being a better NFL prospect.  It's crazy how good LSU is at putting these receiver rooms together.

 

It's also crazy how much NFL talent at receiver and RB Jayden has played with in college.  Even at AZ St he got to play with Rachaad White, Eno Benjamin, Ricky Pearsall, Johnny Wilson, and Brandon Aiyuk.  That's a better group of skill players than Drake Maye played with at UNC.  Jayden never had to carry the load the same way, or worry about unreliability or an inability to run the ball or win on the outside.  His mom looks really ugly for trashing those guys when he transferred, not to mention she was just wrong about them not being good enough.  Now Pearsall and Wilson are going to be Day 2 draft picks.

Oline factor is an interesting point, in the context of wr/qb improvement.  I still have to question Nabers and Thomas’ sudden leap in production  being attributed to their growth as opposed to Daniels’ growth.  I’m not saying it’s necessarily wrong, and I’m certainly not arguing their improvement was all on Daniels.  However, between his coaches talking/raving about his improvement, articles about how VR helped him tremendously, it being his second year in the system, his extended study habits, etc, it just seems like a shaky argument to pin so much of his ultra productive ‘23 season on his receivers when he played with those guys the year before.  I mean, I don’t watch college ball, I get most of my info from what’s posted on this thread.  So color me surprised when I looked it up and discovered he’d played with Nabers/Thomas the previous year… something I’d never seen mentioned on here.

 

 

Regarding the oline, does anyone have numbers on time to throw from the pocket between these qbs?  I’m imagining Drake and Caleb extending plays increases their overall time to throw significantly, and since Daniels often didn’t throw after buying time, a straight up time to throw number won’t tell the whole story.  I’m curious how much we can parse out the difference in/impact of oline play (obviously other factors play in as well - how quickly wrs separate, route depth, scheme, etc.

58 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep that's another issue I have with Daniels. He's never dealt with real adversity in terms of his supporting cast. He'll end up playing with THREE WRs who are 1st round picks(Nabors and Thomas jr this year, Aiyuk a few years ago). That isn't even factoring in all the other guys you mentioned. 

 

I want a guy who can elevate his team. We know Maye can. You remove Maye from UNC and they might win 2 games. Look at their bowl game when he didn't play, they got waxed by a mediocre WVU program. Meanwhile LSU still lit it up without Daniels.

Yeah, this is one of my bigger concerns with Daniels and one of the bigger reasons I lean toward Maye.  Going back to my above point though, its interesting that he played with good receivers across multiple years, but his explosion in ‘23 is attributed (by many) to his receivers…

[Warhead36]

I'm not denying Daniels work ethic. But work ethic isn't really a quantifiable trait and by all counts Maye is also a very hard worker. Unfortunately all the work ethic in the world doesn't help your teammates turn from water into wine.