The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[SkinsFTW]

2 minutes ago, illone said:

 

Exactly!  Took about half that time viewing 3rd down cut-ups to realize how well he translates to the pro game. 

 

Watching game tape doesn't get clicks.

[Dah-Dee]

24 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

He gets crushed everywhere.

How many of these do you think he takes in the NFL before he can’t get up from one?

 

I agree Daniels plays recklessly and does not have the frame to keep absorbing big hits - that'll come more consistently in the NFL than in college - BUT I'm pretty tired of seeing the same 4 tackles, two of which were flagged with one resulting in ejection, as evidence that Daniels 'always' or 'constantly' takes big hits. It's simply not true.  Having watched every offensive snap he took last year, a couple/few times, I saw maybe 3-4 more tackles I'd consider hard hits, but not huge like those above. And virtually all of those, other than the Dallas Turner felony, occurred in the first five games of the season.

 

So yeah, I want Maye, and a big part of it is having zero desire to watch through my hands every time the Commanders snap the ball to Daniels, but it's gotten super old seeing the crazy exaggerations about how many hits he takes. 

 

[Going Commando]

26 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

How many of these do you think he takes in the NFL before he can’t get up from one?

 

He got body slammed by a DB in the FSU game in '22 also, got ragdolled by Dallas Turner on a run earlier in that Alabama game, and got planted by Rakestraw in the Missouri game this year too.  I've watched these plays so much that I've got them memorized.  Jayden gets hit hard.  But I've also seen him slide on scrambles in the middle of the field when the defense is in zone.

 

He's an aggressive runner and his eyes get big when he sees man coverage and he just makes bad decisions as a ball carrier in the open field.  And he got punished for it on occasion in college, but not enough for the lessons to stick.  However, there will come a time when he's in the NFL, running up the field right inside the numbers, and the opportunity to make a man miss will present itself.  He will dead leg this guy and cut back on a hesitation move that will obliterate that player's ankles.  And then Derwin James pursuing the play from field-side will kill him.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

9 minutes ago, illone said:

Exactly!  Took about half that time viewing 3rd down cut-ups to realize how well he translates to the pro game. 

You JJ and JD fans are unflappable. You guys take all the fun out of trolling.

[skinsmania123]

4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

But for how long?

 

Do you believe he can realistically be our quarterback ten years from now playing the way he plays?

 

Do you think his arm talent is good enough to abandon the run first mentality and pick defenses apart with his mind and arm while keeping them honest by exploiting huge holes in the defense with off script runs while sliding after a 25 yard gain like the quarterbacks who enjoy longevity do?

 

I don't see it but if we draft him I'll hope for the best.

I think anyone who views Daniels as having the potential to succeed in the NFL would have to also acknowledge that he needs to continue to adjust so he can realistically be our QB years from now. The question is do we have the QB coach, O Coordinator, conditioning staff who can work with him so he can have longevity.  And I say yes. 

 

Does he really have a run first mentality?  I looked at the top prospects passing numbers, and I admit, only from last year, and they were all fairly comparable in terms of yardage. Where he exceeded was of course in the "off script" running you mentioned. His total yards were around 5,000.  I honestly think he can. He has already made some adjustments. And more adjustments can be drilled into him.  

 

[skinsmania123]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Most NFL QBs do not get hit like this every Sunday

 

 

As @Rufus T Fireflynoted it's also the way he takes hits and how his body reacts to them. Some guys have a natural instinct to get compact and tighten up when they get hit, but some guys are the opposite and basically splay out and flop like ragdolls when it happens. That's how Daniels seems to be. It was also how RG3 was. It's a bit concerning because that's going to open you up to more potential ligament and joint damage. 

Honestly, and I just said it, I think he will adjust on this level.  I don't see the same personality as RG3. And I still think he took a lot more unnecessary hits at Arizona. I kind of agree with what @Llevron said about him not taking certain risks and playing a bit more like Mahomes. I think he can be coached up.  I do not think RG3 took coaching. I think Daniels has and will.  

[illone]

8 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

You JJ and JD fans are unflappable. You guys take all the fun out of trolling.

 

Dude there is exactly ONE “openly JJ” fan here 😂

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I think anyone who views Daniels as having the potential to succeed in the NFL would have to also acknowledge that he needs to continue to adjust so he can realistically be our QB years from now. The question is do we have the QB coach, O Coordinator, conditioning staff who can work with him so he can have longevity.  And I say yes. 

 

Does he really have a run first mentality?  I looked at the top prospects passing numbers, and I admit, only from last year, and they were all fairly comparable in terms of yardage. Where he exceeded was of course in the "off script" running you mentioned. His total yards were around 5,000.  I honestly think he can. He has already made some adjustments. And more adjustments can be drilled into him.  

 

 

When he has a clean pocket and open guys? No.

 

When he's pressured? Absolutely he does. And that shows in the numbers as well. He was at about 50% run when pressured vs pass or sack, which is a huge amount. You can see it in the tape as well. Often when he's pressured he's very quick to pull his eyes down and look to run, regardless of whether there's room to stop up or slide in the pocket or if there's an open guy downfield after he gets moved off his spot.

[redskinss]

1 minute ago, skinsmania123 said:

I think anyone who views Daniels as having the potential to succeed in the NFL would have to also acknowledge that he needs to continue to adjust so he can realistically be our QB years from now. The question is do we have the QB coach, O Coordinator, conditioning staff who can work with him so he can have longevity.  And I say yes. 

 

Does he really have a run first mentality?  I looked at the top prospects passing numbers, and I admit, only from last year, and they were all fairly comparable in terms of yardage. Where he exceeded was of course in the "off script" running you mentioned. His total yards were around 5,000.  I honestly think he can. He has already made some adjustments. And more adjustments can be drilled into him.  

 

 

There's more to stats than just raw numbers, this has been discussed quite a bit so I don't want to keep beating it to death but one of the things about jaydens large passing numbers and how he had so much help from elite weapons is one of those elite weapons that made it far easier for him to pass deep was his own legs.

 

That type of threat opens up a lot of backfields and that's not to say that's a bad thing, on the contrary it's a very good thing but how sustainable is it.

 

That's the debate and if we draft him I pray I'm wrong and when he inevitably loses his elite running ability in a half dozen years continues to carve up defenses but I don't think I'm wrong.

[RandyHolt]

Fun fact: The QB that runs the most is most likely to take a big hit.

 

Fun fact 2: QBs can get crushed standing like a statue in the pocket, just as hard.

[illone]

17 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Watching game tape doesn't get clicks.

 

Makes me wish I had access to the “ncaa all-22”. It’s very tough to obtain. 
 

QB school gets some clicks but you’re exactly right especially when it comes to main stream media. 

[FlyBigBeard]

44 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

He gets crushed everywhere.

How many of these do you think he takes in the NFL before he can’t get up from one?

Part of the reason I don't want Daniels. He is RG3 but smaller build and we know how that turned out. It was fun, really fun! when he was doing his thing then he wasn't. He is not built for NFL hits on a consistent basis like he gets hit in college he plays reckless like RG3 it's fun to watch but it's not sustainable. 

[Warhead36]

Daniels is like my nephew in Madden who immediately runs with his QB if the first guy to throw to isn't open. 

 

He will not consistently beat teams with his passing unless his complete thought process and instincts as a player change and at this point it won't.

 

We're not talking about a 20 year old Lamar Jackson here. Daniels will be 24 his rookie year. He is what he is.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

6 minutes ago, illone said:

Dude there is exactly ONE “openly JJ” fan here 😂

I know. That’s why I had to add the JD fans into the mix.

[redskinss]

Just now, RandyHolt said:

Fun fact: The QB that runs the most is most likely to take a big hit.

 

Fun fact 2: QBs can get crushed standing like a statue in the pocket, just as hard.

 

I tend to agree, I think a little too much is put into hits running quarterbacks take and how much it increases their odds of getting injured versus a pocket quarterback, I think there's definitely some correlation but not as much as we sometimes think there is.

What is pretty indisputable is how much of an effect those injuries have on the skillset of a pocket quarterback versus a running one.

 

 

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Honestly, and I just said it, I think he will adjust on this level.  I don't see the same personality as RG3. And I still think he took a lot more unnecessary hits at Arizona. I kind of agree with what @Llevron said about him not taking certain risks and playing a bit more like Mahomes. I think he can be coached up.  I do not think RG3 took coaching. I think Daniels has and will.  

 

The potential issue here is that I'm not sure coaching can do anything about it. It's just the way certain peoples' brains and bodies react to external stimuli. His reacts in a way where he goes much more limp and splays out. Some guys react in the opposite way, where they automatically get compact.

 

Yeah you can condition that stuff over time. MMA fighters and boxers condition their bodies on how to take hits properly. But that usually not only takes a long time, but also takes getting hit a lot, and I'm not sure that's a great idea for an NFL QB's training regimen. 

[Warhead36]

You aren't gonna change Daniels instincts at this point. He is who he is. This isn't fixing a throwing motion or footwork. Its his innate nature as a football player.

[skinsmania123]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

When he has a clean pocket and open guys? No.

 

When he's pressured? Absolutely he does. And that shows in the numbers as well. He was at about 50% run when pressured vs pass or sack, which is a huge amount. You can see it in the tape as well. Often when he's pressured he's very quick to pull his eyes down and look to run, regardless of whether there's room to stop up or slide in the pocket or if there's an open guy downfield after he gets moved off his spot.

But isn't that the beauty of having a QB that can use his legs?  I mean how many QB's get pressured and fold like a cheap tent? I think that is the beauty of this guy, and what @Dah-Deeposted agree with regarding Daniels.  Does he need to make some adjustments? Yes.  Does every rookie QB that comes in have to make adjustments? Yes. I know many of you think he cannot adjust.  He already did. Can he make more adjustments? Absolutely with a decent staff. I think we have the right staff plus Mariotta to get the best out of Daniels if they choose to go in that direction. 

[Warhead36]

Just now, skinsmania123 said:

But isn't that the beauty of having a QB that can use his legs?  I mean how many QB's get pressured and fold like a cheap tent? I think that is the beauty of this guy, and what @Dah-Deeposted agree with regarding Daniels.  Does he need to make some adjustments? Yes.  Does every rookie QB that comes in have to make adjustments? Yes. I know many of you think he cannot adjust.  He already did. Can he make more adjustments? Absolutely with a decent staff. I think we have the right staff plus Mariotta to get the best out of Daniels if they choose to go in that direction. 

The point is that he uses his legs too much and in bad situations and/or uses them improperly and puts himself in a position to get hurt.

 

Your running should be a supplement to your passing, not a necessity to function.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

3 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

But isn't that the beauty of having a QB that can use his legs?  I mean how many QB's get pressured and fold like a cheap tent?

Outside of Lamar (and JD ain’t Lamar) the quarterbacks who use their legs, predominantly do so to buy time and then beat you with their arms. His only game is to run.

Edited April 11 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Anselmheifer]

The P2S ratio doesn’t bother me that much with Daniels just because in his most recent year, it’s not that much worse than Maye’s. Maybe that’s foolish. 
 

It’s the age, the reliance on athleticism with a high risk running style, and the lack of ability to drive the ball, throws with anticipation, or throw players open. 
 

If we take him, I’m going to watch a bunch of highlights and be excited. 
 

I’ll be pissed if we take JJ. 

[Warhead36]

Just now, Anselmheifer said:

The P2S ratio doesn’t bother me that much with Daniels just because in his most recent year, it’s not that much worse than Maye’s. Maybe that’s foolish. 
 

 

You have to factor his entire career into it. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

The P2S ratio doesn’t bother me that much with Daniels just because in his most recent year, it’s not that much worse than Maye’s. Maybe that’s foolish.

That’s because in his most recent year, he was automatically running the ball anytime there was pressure so of course he was less likely to get sacked. Unfortunately in the NFL he can keep doing that and get killed or he can actually try to play the right way and throw picks plus still get killed.

Edited April 11 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

But isn't that the beauty of having a QB that can use his legs?  I mean how many QB's get pressured and fold like a cheap tent? I think that is the beauty of this guy, and what @Dah-Deeposted agree with regarding Daniels.  Does he need to make some adjustments? Yes.  Does every rookie QB that comes in have to make adjustments? Yes. I know many of you think he cannot adjust.  He already did. Can he make more adjustments? Absolutely with a decent staff. I think we have the right staff plus Mariotta to get the best out of Daniels if they choose to go in that direction. 

 

If you polled all NFL offensive coaches or head coaches and asked them "Would you rather have a mobile QB who, when pressured,: 1) uses his legs to slide in the pocket, escape pressure, and keeps his eyes downfield in order to make off platform throws, then runs if there's nobody open and he has green grass in front of him or 2) usually pulls his eyes down quickly and looks to run as soon as possible?"

 

The vast majority of them would pick option 1.

[bh32]

Daniels just doesn't have the frame to play that style of QB in the NFL..If they draft him and he bust due to injury then AP needs to be fired