The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[illone]

Im a huge fan of this kid. My only concern with him is organizational shifts this off-season.

 

Will the new GM want a clean slate?

[NoCalMike]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

I’m going to outdo my “trade Terry for Tee Higgins” hot take and say I think Howell in Scott Turner’s offense may have delivered better results to this point this season than EB.

 

Turner had to go bc he lost the locker room, but I wonder what would’ve happened if we started Howell last year over Wentz/Heinicke. Turner never got to run his offense with a real QB under center and meanwhile schemed guys open all the time.

 

I can't disagree really. It doesn't mean I wanted the Scott Turner offense as the answer regardless, but Turner's original scheme before it had to switch to the run heavy time of possession slog to accommodate a limited QB seemed to suit the strengths of a big-armed QB that could push the ball down the field.  

[mistertim]

Just now, illone said:

Im a huge fan of this kid. My only concern with him is organizational shifts this off-season.

 

Will the new GM want a clean slate?

 

Clean slate as far as QB or coaches?

 

If QB, I'd be surprised if a GM came in and decided to jettison Sam. He's played well for essentially a rookie, he's shown pretty consistent improvement over time, and he has tons of upside with his physical gifts.

 

The only way I could see it is if we ended up with a top 3 pick and had a shot at a guy like Williams in the draft and the GM truly believed him to be a can't miss prospect. But that's not going to happen.

[Conn]

If Howell gets those turnovers down and he and the playcalling keep the sacks down…look at the comments here about Strouds development and what a stud he is. Part of that is situational football and being clutch. We’ve seen that from Howell in flashes (though what Stroud did today is special).

 

Anyways, this post isn’t about comparing Howell to Stroud. Simply that if Howell keeps up this production while continuing to cut down on turnovers, he’s going to be seen as a very good, unquestioned franchise-caliber young QB. 

[illone]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Clean slate as far as QB or coaches?

 

If QB, I'd be surprised if a GM came in and decided to jettison Sam. He's played well for essentially a rookie, he's shown pretty consistent improvement over time, and he has tons of upside with his physical gifts.

 

The only way I could see it is if we ended up with a top 3 pick and had a shot at a guy like Williams in the draft and the GM truly believed him to be a can't miss prospect. But that's not going to happen.

 

 

Coaches are a given, although part of me hopes EB is promoted.

 

My worry is more about Howell specifically since many times new staff want their fingerprints with zero baggage.

 

Moreover, its going to take more than one off-season to remove the ptsd I have from the previous regime lol. Im worried about all types of negative **** happening, including the new staff getting enamored with the potential of caleb williams who is probably one of the most over hyped players in recent memory.  He checks all the talent boxes, but I would never make him the top pick. Some dumb team is going to trade a boat load of picks to get him. Hoping it isnt this team.

[Warhead36]

11 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

Coaches are a given, although part of me hopes EB is promoted.

 

My worry is more about Howell specifically since many times new staff want their fingerprints with zero baggage.

 

Moreover, its going to take more than one off-season to remove the ptsd I have from the previous regime lol. Im worried about all types of negative **** happening, including the new staff getting enamored with the potential of caleb williams who is probably one of the most over hyped players in recent memory.  He checks all the talent boxes, but I would never make him the top pick. Some dumb team is going to trade a boat load of picks to get him. Hoping it isnt this team.

Depends on the staff. When the Eagles hired Nick Sirianni he kept Jalen Hurts. McVay kept Jared Goff. McDaniel kept Tua. 

 

If you have a GUY, or think the guy you have is a GUY, you commit to him right away.

 

The biggest thing is making sure the new GM and HC and everyone else in the organization is all on the same page. If they wanna commit to Howell then I'm in too. If not, then I'm okay with that too.

 

What we can NOT have is another Snyder situation where he forces a QB on his next regime. That never works.

 

I'm with you on Caleb though. I'm OUT on him completely. All the talent in the world but the guy just screams diva and headcase. I don't think he'll be coachable much if at all. I do love Drake Maye though.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Warhead36

[RabidFan]

56 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Depends on the staff. When the Eagles hired Nick Sirianni he kept Jalen Hurts. McVay kept Jared Goff. McDaniel kept Tua. 

 

If you have a GUY, or think the guy you have is a GUY, you commit to him right away.

 

The biggest thing is making sure the new GM and HC and everyone else in the organization is all on the same page. If they wanna commit to Howell then I'm in too. If not, then I'm okay with that too.

 

What we can NOT have is another Snyder situation where he forces a QB on his next regime. That never works.

 

I'm with you on Caleb though. I'm OUT on him completely. All the talent in the world but the guy just screams diva and headcase. I don't think he'll be coachable much if at all. I do love Drake Maye though.

Expecting great things in the NFL from a USC quarterback is one of the greatest blunders in the history of the world.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

[Skinsinparadise]

I know some get pissy when Howell is compared to elite QBs.  But the point to me made by posts like this is heck yes it matters that Howell has only started 10 games.   Not always, but often young QBs typically get better over time.  So these flashes we've seen from Howell -- there is is a good chance this isn't him at his peak.   So its OK to have some hope for the future with him if he keeps on this path.

 

 

8 hours ago, illone said:

Im a huge fan of this kid. My only concern with him is organizational shifts this off-season.

 

Will the new GM want a clean slate?

 

Eagles didn't move on from Hurts with a new regime.  Giants didn't with Daniel Jones.  Gibbs didn't.  Zorn didn't.  Jay didn't.

 

I get the thought but you'd figure a new regime would be more likely to ride with Howell than discard him if he keeps playing like this.

 

It would be much easier to win now in 2024 by using the cap room and draft picks to build around Howell than start from scratch.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

10 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

I’m going to outdo my “trade Terry for Tee Higgins” hot take and say I think Howell in Scott Turner’s offense may have delivered better results to this point this season than EB.

 

Turner had to go bc he lost the locker room, but I wonder what would’ve happened if we started Howell last year over Wentz/Heinicke. Turner never got to run his offense with a real QB under center and meanwhile schemed guys open all the time.

I think the time to start Howell was after that awful first Giants game at the bye. That would have reignited the team and we had a shot at the playoffs. That happens and Turner stays and we're not having the bad offseason. We're not starting a guy like Charles day 1, or Gates. We hit this season with some optimism and continuity and we win games like the Bills and Giants and Bears games and we're ahead of Dallas right now.

[skinzplay]

Howell is the goods, man. Young bucks are gonna make a bone-headed play here and there (like that INT before the half). But the train keeps rollin'. He comes back and sliced 'em up. All those damn drops and passes right through receivers hands are pissing me off.  Anyway, we didn't take the game outta Howell's hands like ATL seemingly felt compelled to do with their QB late in yesterday's game. He's our guy! So glad Zampese was SO adamant that we draft him (along with MH).

 

[Koolblue13]

Sam was set up to fail (same TEs on roster, no upgrades to a bad OL, first time play caller) and is carrying this team.

 

It's amazing.

[HigSkin]

 

 

[tmandoug1]

14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Sam was set up to fail (same TEs on roster, no upgrades to a bad OL, first time play caller) and is carrying this team.

 

It's amazing.

One of the top reasons I want this FO and staff gone is their failure to address the oline. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Speaking of the O line, was listening to Keim talk about how the protections have improved with Larsen in the fold.  Apparently, Gates wasn't the hottest FA signing.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Speaking of the O line, was listening to Keim talk about how the protections have improved with Larsen in the fold.  Apparently, Gates wasn't the hottest FA signing.

That is shocking.

 

He should probably be getting first team reps at LG though.

[DJHJR86]

I'm still in the "wait and see but he's trending upwards" camp on Howell, but can stop pretending that the Patriots aren't putrid on defense?  I don't think yesterday's game should be used as any indication that he's definitely the guy.  I would have said both Eagles games were much better barometers to use.  

[OtisDriftwood25]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I know some get pissy when Howell is compared to elite QBs.  But the point to me made by posts like this is heck yes it matters that Howell has only started 10 games.   Not always, but often young QBs typically get better over time.  So these flashes we've seen from Howell -- there is is a good chance this isn't him at his peak.   So its OK to have some hope for the future with him if he keeps on this path.

 

 

 

Eagles didn't move on from Hurts with a new regime.  Giants didn't with Daniel Jones.  Gibbs didn't.  Zorn didn't.  Jay didn't.

 

I get the thought but you'd figure a new regime would be more likely to ride with Howell than discard him if he keeps playing like this.

 

It would be much easier to win now in 2024 by using the cap room and draft picks to build around Howell than start from scratch.

The first name that came to my mind was Herbert. Herbert loss 7 of his first 8 games but kept showing talent as a passer. If Howell was a Top 5 pick or played for the Steelers, he would be talked about all Sunday.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I'm still in the "wait and see but he's trending upwards" camp on Howell

 

I see this one a lot, but it doesn’t make

much sense to me.  The kid is clearly not a finished product, on a cheap contract with 2 years left.  There’s no decision to make on him.  We aren’t in a position to draft Williams or Maye.

 

My point being, we’ve got plenty of time to wait and see and are under no pressure to make a decision on him.

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I see this one a lot, but it doesn’t make

much sense to me.  The kid is clearly not a finished product, on a cheap contract with 2 years left.  There’s no decision to make on him.  We aren’t in a position to draft Williams or Maye.

 

My point being, we’ve got plenty of time to wait and see and are under no pressure to make a decision on him.

 

I think you misunderstood.  I'm not in favor of jettisoning Sam at all.  I'm in the wait and see if he's an actual franchise quarterback still.  Other people have pointed to his passing yards and made declarative statements that he's the guy.  Too early to say that.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That is shocking.

 

He should probably be getting first team reps at LG though.

 

Jonathan Allen abused Gates when he played LG with the Giants, I wonder if that's stuck in their head because Keim has said multiple times they see his strength as center not guard.

 

I wonder though about Wylie at guard.  Based on his skill set, I think they can get away at guard with him and the current slate IMO if they get two tackles in the off season.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

If Howell was a Top 5 pick or played for the Steelers, he would be talked about all Sunday.

Very much this.  

Just now, DJHJR86 said:

 

I think you misunderstood.  I'm not in favor of jettisoning Sam at all.  I'm in the wait and see if he's an actual franchise quarterback still.  Other people have pointed to his passing yards and made declarative statements that he's the guy.  Too early to say that.

I think “the guy” is relative though.  Doesn’t mean he’s ever going to be an upper echelon QB, but he should definitely be our guy for the foreseeable future.  

[MisterPinstripe]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Speaking of the O line, was listening to Keim talk about how the protections have improved with Larsen in the fold.  Apparently, Gates wasn't the hottest FA signing.

What an indictment of this coaching staff that they kept rolling out Gates for 7 games letting Howell get crushed because they refused to make a change. Suddenly the last two games Howell has a lot more time. Incompetence or ego to refusing to admit you made a bad signing and continue to let your young QB get crushed. How many games did we lose because of letting Gates who is clueless with protections continue to call them. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

The first name that came to my mind was Herbert. Herbert loss 7 of his first 8 games but kept showing talent as a passer. If Howell was a Top 5 pick or played for the Steelers, he would be talked about all Sunday.

 

I do think if he went in the first or even 2nd round, he'd be viewed differently.  Here's a scout before the draft talking about him.  I just posted this elsewhere but figure it belongs better here, I cut if off even though it was more praise because an expletive was in that mix.

 

 

[Commander202]

Don’t know if this hasn’t been said yet but we really need to start KJ Henry. He’s bigger and faster than Toohill and James and you could see that easily when he sacked Jones . 
 

Also looks like tackles will be the only need next off-season, think Larsen/Stromberg can hold the center position for a long while  and Chris Paul is our long term LG. 
 

DE and and LT should be our top biggest next in 2024.