The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You’re just bitter about the SB.  
 

It’s an odd hill to die on.  But ok.

That's weak. 

 

The hill that the OC/AHC who was handed the entire offense is responsible for the offensive play calling? Yeah, real odd EBer.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's weak. 

 

The hill that the OC/AHC who was handed the entire offense is responsible for the offensive play calling? Yeah, real odd EBer.

It’s the best offense we’ve had since 2016, he’s developing a rookie QB and was given a weak line.  And they’re averaging 22 PPG including a clunker where they only scored 3 points.  
 

In no way is EB doing anything but a good, if not great,  job.  Any argument to the contrary is agenda driven because it’s utterly irrational. 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It’s the best offense we’ve had since 2016, he’s developing a rookie QB and was given a weak line.  And they’re averaging 22 PPG including a clunker where they only scored 3 points.  
 

In no way is EB doing anything but a good, if not great,  job.  Any argument to the contrary is agenda driven because it’s utterly irrational. 

He's had 6 good quarters. We've played 3 teams that will probably pick in the top 5 and are only 2-1 against them, because one blew us out.

 

It's an unbalanced offense, that can't get the run game going and hangs the young QB out, possibly to his detriment. 

 

Sure, we've scored some points in garbage time to help our PPG. Yay.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

He's had 6 good quarters. We've played 3 teams that will probably pick in the top 5 and are only 2-1 against them, because one blew us out.

 

It's an unbalanced offense, that can't get the run game going and hangs the young QB out, possibly to his detriment. 

 

Sure, we've scored some points in garbage time to help our PPG. Yay.

What garbage time?  We won 2 games, were in OT in another.  So 3 games couldn’t have had garbage time.  
 

Of the other 2, it was 16-0 in the Bills game into the 4th quarter.  And we didn’t really have any yards or points in that game.

 

The bears game we pulled to within 10, and had a FG attempt to get to within 7.  The end of the game, sure, the game was out of reach.  But up until the missed FG, it wasn’t garbage time.  Then it unraveled. 
 

You’re reaching because it’s an emotional issue for you for some reason.  It’s not rational.  
 

The balance, this is a Reid offense.  It’s not going to be run/pass balanced.  Ever.  
 

We had 11 players catch passes against the Bears.  That’s balance in and of itself.  
 

EB is installing an offense and it’s working well.  With a 24 year old QB.  Who’s learning.  
 

And FWIW, the OL and the RBs going to the wrong way are more to do with running game issues.  
 

This offense doesn’t establish the run.  That’s not what it does.  It softens with the pass, uses the pass as an extension of the run game and then it adds runs in the second half of games.  It’s been that way for 40 years. 

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

What garbage time?  We won 2 games, were in OT in another.  So 3 games couldn’t have had garbage time.  
 

Of the other 2, it was 16-0 in the Bills game into the 4th quarter.  And we didn’t really have any yards or points in that game.

 

The bears game we pulled to within 10, and had a FG attempt to get to within 7.  The end of the game, sure, the game was out of reach.  But up until the missed FG, it wasn’t garbage time.  Then it unraveled. 
 

You’re reaching because it’s an emotional issue for you for some reason.  It’s not rational.  
 

The balance, this is a Reid offense.  It’s not going to be run/pass balanced.  Ever.  
 

We had 11 players catch passes against the Bears.  That’s balance in and of itself.  
 

EB is installing an offense and it’s working well.  With a 24 year old QB.  Who’s learning.  
 

And FWIW, the OL and the RBs going to the wrong way are more to do with running game issues.  
 

This offense doesn’t establish the run.  That’s not what it does.  It softens with the pass, uses the pass as an extension of the run game and then it adds runs in the second half of games.  It’s been that way for 40 years. 

It's not emotional and it's not irrational. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’m not all-in on EB, still need to see a lot more.  But I am encouraged by what I’ve seen thus far.  It’s a brand new system, with a trash line and an inexperienced QB.  There are going to be major hiccups in that mix, typically not of the variety where you can put up 30+ points very often.

 

It’s definitely been hit or miss, hence why I need to see a lot more.  But it’s not the outright disaster some are making it out to be.  There’s good in there, just need more of it.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

It's not emotional and it's not irrational. 

It totally is and it’s also tin hat conspiracy theory.  And none of it hangs together.  
 

Every argument you’ve made is counter to any factual, statistical or context based analysis.  
 

Is he Andy Reid or Bill Walsh?  No.  Is he doing a good job? Yes.  

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s definitely been hit or miss, hence why I need to see a lot more.  But it’s not the outright disaster some are making it out to be.  There’s good in there, just need more of it.

And part of the inconsistency is due to having a QB who’s learning a new system hand has played 6 games in the NFL.  

Much more good than bad.  

[Koolblue13]

21 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m not all-in on EB, still need to see a lot more.  But I am encouraged by what I’ve seen thus far.  It’s a brand new system, with a trash line and an inexperienced QB.  There are going to be major hiccups in that mix, typically not of the variety where you can put up 30+ points very often.

 

It’s definitely been hit or miss, hence why I need to see a lot more.  But it’s not the outright disaster some are making it out to be.  There’s good in there, just need more of it.

I agree, but think it's been a lot more bad than good and I don't see it improving.

[MartinC]

Overall I think EB is doing a good job. He needs to get more balance into his play calling (which doesn’t mean being 50/50 run pass) and I don’t like some of the design in the run game - but the offense has been productive. 
 

But I watched his press conference. He’s not good behind a microphone - he absolutely does not present as HC material. 

[Koolblue13]

Needs to figure out how to get WRs open, too.

[MartinC]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Needs to figure out how to get WRs open, too.

We have guys open. Howell is spreading the ball around as well. 
 

I do think EB has to find ways to get Terry and Dotson more explosive plays and touches in space.

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Needs to figure out how to get WRs open, too.

The offense is predicated on making the defense pay if you sit back and play coverage by hitting TEs and RBs. 
 

It’s exactly what KC is doing tonight.  
 

You’re complaining about ghosts.  

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 With a 24 year old QB.

 

Actually he turned 23 last month. Everything else you said was reasonable given the current situation. 

[Fan since a Fetus]

I was really hoping that EB would come in and be lights out. I guess my problem with him right now is I don’t feel he adjusts in game fast enough. A couple of the games it took until halftime. I really don’t like the run game. I feel it is very predictable and honestly at this point, I really would rather see Antonio Gibson running the ball than Robinson. Yeah, Robinson can be tough to bring down, but I feel Gibson’s speed would fit this system more. Of course, fumbles.

 

The times Gibson has touched the ball this year he has looked quick. When he gets the ball, if he doesn’t fumble, I feel like big things can happen. With Robinson, I just feel like we will get positive yardage, but he’s not breaking a massive run anytime soon.

 

Because EB doesn’t let EB make changes quickly, I don’t feel he is head coach material. I was hoping he’d be great so he could stick around for Howell’s development. I don’t see that happening now and it really sucks that we have a good young QB that is most likely going to be on his 3rd system next year in as many years. That’s never good.

[FootballZombie]

I feel there has been more bad than good from EB so far.

 

-A guy running his system, rather than the best usage of the personnel. Featuring the TEs when they are the weaker skill group, and even doing so when the guy you have to feature is your unproven and unproductive TE3 rather than your WR1 or WR2.

-Playcalling that magnifies our biggest weaknesses and is on pace to set negative records as a result. 

-Mind-numbingly bad play diversity

-A near total inability to generate offense until your down 3 scores and enter an environment more friendly to gaining yardage.

-Contributing the lack of Offensive production that is necessary to reach blow-out territory in the majority of our games

-A lack of awareness of the problems in his offense, like not even knowing how many sacks his team was giving up

-Multiple bush league tactics that I would put below even a fresh faced OC like calling T.O.s at the end of a half just to get another handful of meaningless yards on the statline, chasing points at the end of blowouts so they don't look so bad, and calling long developing plays that get your players killed well after the game is decided. Even leaving these players in the game is problematic, let alone actively exposing them. These are the most sad and embarrassing of EB issues and has been living in this end of the pool. Dude has shown a lack of humility and class multiple times.

 

All we really have from EB right now is a guy that lead an O to put up stats after we've been kicked in the teeth. While that is certainly better than being unproductive for a whole 60 mins, it aint good.

 

He has been bad so far. I won't write the book on a guy 5 games in just like I didn't at 2, but he has not been up to snuff to this point. He has to be better.

And EB needs to tell EB that the bush league stuff needs to stop yesterday.

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

But I watched his press conference. He’s not good behind a microphone - he absolutely does not present as HC material. 

Totally agree. That’s not going to change either so I’d say he has all but no chance of getting a long term HC job. 

[Koolblue13]

10 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The offense is predicated on making the defense pay if you sit back and play coverage by hitting TEs and RBs. 
 

It’s exactly what KC is doing tonight.  
 

You’re complaining about ghosts.  

It's not chasing ghosts, it's one of a few concerns.

 

So is Terry getting 5 looks on 51 throws.

 

Why is Brian Pringle getting passes while Terry is on the bench?

 

I'm assuming you think that's great and it's irrational conspiracy to think it's worthy of being critical.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I keep seeing this 6 good quarters stuff and in a way I get it, they’ve started slow.  But if you did the same analysis across the board of 31 other teams, I don’t think it would vary that wildly.  Games tend to ebb and flow, only elite offenses tend to constantly move the football and score points with regularity.  
 

This is not a defense of EB’s offense as a whole.  I took issue with the refusal to run the ball against Buffalo, and I don’t love running primarily delayed handoffs out of shotgun.

 

But it’s been one training camp and five weeks, the talent on this line is awful and we don’t really have the tight end that this offense really needs.  They are trying with Logan, but we could use an upgrade in health and talent there.

 

All that with zero defensive help during this 3 game losing streak.  A defense that has primarily been together 4 years under the same DC with the most resources allocated to it.  

[Conn]

I do wish we could see what we’d be looking at with EB if we’d reached on an OT in the 1st (Forbes was a reach anyways, who cares in relation to Rivera’s drafting), taken Mauch in the 2nd, and a TE (and still Stromberg if they really liked him) in the 3rd/4th after some maneuvering. Could be looking at an entirely different offensive output with an entirely different outlook on the young OL. 

[NewCliche21]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Why is Brian Pringle getting passes while Terry is on the bench?

 

I'm assuming you think that's great and it's irrational conspiracy to think it's worthy of being critical.

 

To be fair, Terry has turf toe. He's not going to be in every route like he should be.

[zCommander]

 

[Llevron]

13 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m not all-in on EB, still need to see a lot more.  But I am encouraged by what I’ve seen thus far.  It’s a brand new system, with a trash line and an inexperienced QB.  There are going to be major hiccups in that mix, typically not of the variety where you can put up 30+ points very often.

 

It’s definitely been hit or miss, hence why I need to see a lot more.  But it’s not the outright disaster some are making it out to be.  There’s good in there, just need more of it.

 

The offense is inconsistent. Which is a ****ing shocker with a first time play caller, first time staring QB with like 5 starts total so far, brand new offense that is reportedly difficult to master a terrible Oline and last but not least playing from behind no matter what cause the defense is giving up close to 30 a game. 

 

I say all that to say that obviously it can get better. Its inconsistent. And its ok to say it can get better. Its also ok to admit the offense has shown a lot of good and has impressed in some pretty ****ty situations. Its ****ing inconsistent and if you look at all the parts, its not a surprise that it is. 

 

----

 

Also if you love how Howell has played but still somehow find it within yourself to hate the offense and the OC, that's weird to me. Its a team sport, they all are doing this together. I am not nuanced enough to separate the rookie QB showing some hope and the OC who is putting him in that position. Personally. But I can read.....and I haven't seen an argument nuanced enough to that effect that I can believe. If you are actually trying to make the argument that Howell = good and OC = bad then I would love to see you spell it out for me. I need the help to see it but I am open to it. 

[Koolblue13]

37 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

To be fair, Terry has turf toe. He's not going to be in every route like he should be.

That's fair and I'm sure it's not helping, but we have several sub 4.4 WRs who can't get open. Part of that is scheme and play calling.

21 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

The offense is inconsistent. Which is a ****ing shocker with a first time play caller, first time staring QB with like 5 starts total so far, brand new offense that is reportedly difficult to master a terrible Oline and last but not least playing from behind no matter what cause the defense is giving up close to 30 a game. 

 

I say all that to say that obviously it can get better. Its inconsistent. And its ok to say it can get better. Its also ok to admit the offense has shown a lot of good and has impressed in some pretty ****ty situations. Its ****ing inconsistent and if you look at all the parts, its not a surprise that it is. 

 

----

 

Also if you love how Howell has played but still somehow find it within yourself to hate the offense and the OC, that's weird to me. Its a team sport, they all are doing this together. I am not nuanced enough to separate the rookie QB showing some hope and the OC who is putting him in that position. Personally. But I can read.....and I haven't seen an argument nuanced enough to that effect that I can believe. If you are actually trying to make the argument that Howell = good and OC = bad then I would love to see you spell it out for me. I need the help to see it but I am open to it. 

I'm high on Howell, because of his potential and I've liked a lot of what I've seen. I've also hated a lot, which was all stuff we knew we'd see. Holding the ball too long, bonehead picks trying to extend plays, not sliding on runs.

 

While it is a new Offense and it's fair to be patient, it seems to have no idea how to use the run game (which doesn't mean 50/50 ratio), locks in on the TE regardless of who is playing, doesn't seem to help the WRs, doesn't move the pocket or use enough motion, things that can buy a bad line and young QB time.

 

Outside of the Eagles game, we haven't seen the offense try and establish a rhythm, before going Rexy Grossman. 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Also if you love how Howell has played but still somehow find it within yourself to hate the offense and the OC, that's weird to me. Its a team sport, they all are doing this together. I am not nuanced enough to separate the rookie QB showing some hope and the OC who is putting him in that position. Personally. But I can read.....and I haven't seen an argument nuanced enough to that effect that I can believe. If you are actually trying to make the argument that Howell = good and OC = bad then I would love to see you spell it out for me. I need the help to see it but I am open to it. 

Here are a couple easy examples from just last year:

 

Justin Herbert in Joe Lombardi’s offense

Sam Howell in Scott Turner’s offense 

 

I could go on.

 

I’m not sure where I fall yet with EB, but just on principle—it’s very possible to be happy with a QB’s growth and general play and yet be unhappy with the offensive scheme they’re stuck in, or the play calling they’re operating with. 

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

Also if you love how Howell has played but still somehow find it within yourself to hate the offense and the OC, that's weird to me. Its a team sport, they all are doing this together. I am not nuanced enough to separate the rookie QB showing some hope and the OC who is putting him in that position. Personally. But I can read.....and I haven't seen an argument nuanced enough to that effect that I can believe. If you are actually trying to make the argument that Howell = good and OC = bad then I would love to see you spell it out for me. I need the help to see it but I am open to it. 

 

@Koolblue13 and @Conn put it well.

 

Howell can only play in the situations he is provided. EB is the guy who is helping to provide the situations.

 

Howell is not calling the plays w/ a horrendous disparity, designing the scheme that has almost everyone locked up or leaving people in to get killed when games are decided.

 

It is not difficult for me to look at our games and figure Howell is doing well but EB is not doing much to help him outside of putting him in position to rack up numbers in lopsided affairs.

I can also say he may in fact be hurting him more than he is helping by demanding he has to be Superman every week and carry our O on a pathway that will lead to more damage than any QB has taken ever. Hes risking Ramsey'ing the kid and destroying his future.

Edited October 13, 2023 by FootballZombie