The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Peregrine]

42 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I just don't understand this line of thinking when TH came into last year having played something like 5 total games, with 3 starts and got hurt in all of them.  

 

It's not like had some great vast amount of experience.  He literally was sleeping on his sister's couch in December 2020 when the team signed him to be the emergency QB when everybody got hurt and COVID was a thing.  

 

Howell has less experience than TH does now.  

Do you just copy and paste these exact lines every time someone doesnt want to start Howell?

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

It's definitely true in aggregate.  

 

Interestingly, his worst fumble year was 2019, which he actually played very well and the Eagles made the playoffs.  I think they won 4 or 5 in a row to make it in, and he won comeback player of the year.

 

Last year, he had 8 fumbles, 5 lost.  The 8 fumbles ranks 17th in the league.  Now, you could argue it was lower because his attempts were lower.  And that would be a fair and cogent argument. 

 

However, for context, Dak put the ball on the turf 14 times in 16 games.  Though he got MASSIVELY lucky because they only lost 6 of them.  Kyler Murray fumbled 13 times and lost none.  Which means whatever ritual animal sacrifices he is making to the football gods are working.  The other guy who got really lucky was Kirk.  He had 12 fumbles but only 2 lost. 

 

As a matter of fact, Carson needs to step up his ritual sacrifices to the football Gods, because his fumbles to lost fumbles (which really is a whole lot of luck) was one of the worst in the league, I believe.  5 lost on 8 total, that's 62% lost.  There are a few guys (Tom Brady being one, and 2 RBs) who fumbled 4 times with 3 losses.

 

Anyway, it will bear watching.  It wasn't really a problem last year, even with a very leaky OL.  We'll see what happens this year.

 

NFL history tells us it's just random luck. No bearing even from season to season. There was some speculation that some OL and RB's were just quicker at scooping up up fumbles, but the next season would often be the opposite.

 

High variance and it's just poor luck for Wentz. It happens.

[Koolblue13]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

Listening to Turner and with him coming back to the sidelines during games, it really sounds like he and Wentz have a great connection going on and that Wentz will have some say with play calling and running the offense. That's exciting I think.

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Do you just copy and paste these exact lines every time someone doesnt want to start Howell?

I really should. Though I think this is only the second time I've made that specific argument.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Listening to Turner and with him coming back to the sidelines during games, it really sounds like he and Wentz have a great connection going on and that Wentz will have some say with play calling and running the offense. That's exciting I think.

I don't know what to think of Scott Turner moving to the sideline to call plays.  I think he put it well, there are plusses and minuses to both scenarios.  When Norv was an OC, he always called plays from the booth.  I think there are very few OCs who call plays from the sideline, the exception being the play-calling HC's (Reid, McVay, whoever else).

 

We'll see how that works out.  Norv actually said when he started doing it when he became a HC "you move from the best seat in the house to the worst" or something like that.  

 

I don't think it's a huge deal, and if it doesn't work, it's not like he can't move and go back up to the booth, and I'm sure he has members of the coaching staff up there telling him what he sees.

 

But I do fin it interesting.  

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't know what to think of Scott Turner moving to the sideline to call plays.  I think he put it well, there are plusses and minuses to both scenarios.  When Norv was an OC, he always called plays from the booth.  I think there are very few OCs who call plays from the sideline, the exception being the play-calling HC's (Reid, McVay, whoever else).

 

We'll see how that works out.  Norv actually said when he started doing it when he became a HC "you move from the best seat in the house to the worst" or something like that.  

 

I don't think it's a huge deal, and if it doesn't work, it's not like he can't move and go back up to the booth, and I'm sure he has members of the coaching staff up there telling him what he sees.

 

But I do fin it interesting.  

Maybe that's what they're doing. Prepping Zampese to be the next OC and Turner the next HC.

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Maybe that's what they're doing. Prepping Zampese to be the next OC and Turner the next HC.

Not anywhere near this level, but I have been both on the field and in the booth at the D3 college level and varsity HS ball.

 

Currently I am a DC and I am on the field. I can tell you it is much harder to call things from the field as you can't see the entire field (this is less of an issue in the pros as you get the iPad/stills after every drive). But I like being on the field still (as long as I have someone up top that I trust) because I can communicate directly with the players. Granted, I only have 3-6 from the defense at any given time because many of our guys are two way players (I am also the OL coach, so I have to find a way to juggle that duty).

 

But for play calling in a vacuum, with no other reasons for being down on the field, it is MUCH easier to call players from the booth. It's easier to see the game, it's easier to see adjustments, it's easier to see what the opposition is doing. It's just easier.

 

Him coming to the field almost completely means that they want him on the sideline with the quarterback in real time and to make adjustments. Zampese as the QB coach can see the field and communicate to Turner. And, in my opinion, the QB coach is more important in the development of the QB and in teaching a QB an opponent during the week, but the OC is more helpful to a QB on game day.

 

If I'm right, it's a smart switch imo. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Darnold is going to be an expensive backup.

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Not anywhere near this level, but I have been both on the field and in the booth at the D3 college level and varsity HS ball.

 

Currently I am a DC and I am on the field. I can tell you it is much harder to call things from the field as you can't see the entire field (this is less of an issue in the pros as you get the iPad/stills after every drive). But I like being on the field still (as long as I have someone up top that I trust) because I can communicate directly with the players. Granted, I only have 3-6 from the defense at any given time because many of our guys are two way players (I am also the OL coach, so I have to find a way to juggle that duty).

 

But for play calling in a vacuum, with no other reasons for being down on the field, it is MUCH easier to call players from the booth. It's easier to see the game, it's easier to see adjustments, it's easier to see what the opposition is doing. It's just easier.

 

Him coming to the field almost completely means that they want him on the sideline with the quarterback in real time and to make adjustments. Zampese as the QB coach can see the field and communicate to Turner. And, in my opinion, the QB coach is more important in the development of the QB and in teaching a QB an opponent during the week, but the OC is more helpful to a QB on game day.

 

If I'm right, it's a smart switch imo. 

That's great insight. Thank you.

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Maybe that's what they're doing. Prepping Zampese to be the next OC and Turner the next HC.

 

I like Scott more than most as the OC but he hits me a bit like his dad for better and worse -- that is, good play caller but not a leader of men.  He talks like Norv, maybe even a bit more laid back than him, not much of a presence as to his personality.  i can't see guys running through the wall for Scott. 

13 hours ago, CobraCommander said:

Irsays wife must’ve had a sexy dream about Wentz. All this hate, for what?

 

The hate is wacky, pathological.  Be one thing if Wentz was a bad dude, Jeff George type, but that's not the case

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Scott more than most as the OC but he hits me a bit like his dad for better and worse -- that is, good play caller but not a leader of men.  He talks like Norv, maybe even a bit more laid back than him, not much of a presence as to his personality.  i can't see guys running through the wall for Scott. 

Who knows really. Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan didn't scream HC types to many of the fans here either. The league is shifting towards a different kind of personality for the head coaches. You're not gonna see Parcells type guys anymore.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Who knows really. Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan didn't scream HC types to many of the fans here either. The league is shifting towards a different kind of personality for the head coaches. You're not gonna see Parcells type guys anymore.

 

McVay is a very charismatic-personable dude IMO, almost 10 out of 10, the only thing about him that didn't scream HC type was his youth.

 

Kyle without the charisma but he's a high strung emotional dude -- and as much as i like Scott I don't think anyone thinks he's Kyle level as a play caller.

 

Some think Scott stinks as a play caller.  Some like Logan Paulsen who has studied the scheme thinks he's just OK, he doesn't find him inventive at all ala Kyle but he thinks he's competent.  IMHO, I think Scott is a good playcaller, not great, not special.  So for me to overcome his sort of bland low key personality (where IMO even his dad has more oomph to his personality) I think he'd need to be special as a play caller.  And IMHO he's not special like that.  But who knows.  Will see this season.  He hasn't been calling plays for a long time.

 

But personally I am more into leader of men type head coaches than play caller pedigree types.  Plenty of good playcallers ended up "meh" as head coaches. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[CobraCommander]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Scott more than most as the OC but he hits me a bit like his dad for better and worse -- that is, good play caller but not a leader of men.  He talks like Norv, maybe even a bit more laid back than him, not much of a presence as to his personality.  i can't see guys running through the wall for Scott. 

 

The hate is wacky, pathological.  Be one thing if Wentz was a bad dude, Jeff George type, but that's not the case

I know a bad dude when I see one

 

[HigSkin]

 

[Koolblue13]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

McVay is a very charismatic-personable dude IMO, almost 10 out of 10, the only thing about him that didn't scream HC type was his youth.

 

Kyle without the charisma but he's a high strung emotional dude -- and as much as i like Scott I don't think anyone thinks he's Kyle level as a play caller.

 

Some think Scott stinks as a play caller.  Some like Logan Paulsen who has studied the scheme thinks he's just OK, he doesn't find him inventive at all ala Kyle but he thinks he's competent.  IMHO, I think Scott is a good playcaller, not great, not special.  So for me to overcome his sort of bland low key personality (where IMO even his dad has more oomph to his personality) I think he'd need to be special as a play caller.  And IMHO he's not special like that.  But who knows.  Will see this season.  He hasn't been calling plays for a long time.

 

But personally I am more into leader of men type head coaches than play caller pedigree types.  Plenty of good playcallers ended up "meh" as head coaches. 

I'm not saying that Scott would make a great HC, but if his offense pops off, he sure as hell is going to get a shot. I mean, that's what we do isn't it? Turn good OCs into great HCs? 

 

That means that Scott is a lock to be our next HC, because he is a mellow guy that should just be an OC his entire career.

[NickyJ]

Our QB coaches are also top of the line. Zampese is going to go through a renaissance and be Indy's head coach in a couple years.

[Chris 44]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

McVay is a very charismatic-personable dude IMO, almost 10 out of 10, the only thing about him that didn't scream HC type was his youth.

 

Kyle without the charisma but he's a high strung emotional dude -- and as much as i like Scott I don't think anyone thinks he's Kyle level as a play caller.

 

Some think Scott stinks as a play caller.  Some like Logan Paulsen who has studied the scheme thinks he's just OK, he doesn't find him inventive at all ala Kyle but he thinks he's competent.  IMHO, I think Scott is a good playcaller, not great, not special.  So for me to overcome his sort of bland low key personality (where IMO even his dad has more oomph to his personality) I think he'd need to be special as a play caller.  And IMHO he's not special like that.  But who knows.  Will see this season.  He hasn't been calling plays for a long time.

 

But personally I am more into leader of men type head coaches than play caller pedigree types.  Plenty of good playcallers ended up "meh" as head coaches. 

I think the guys who are not seen as coaches a guy would "run through a brick wall for" but still very capable can still make it as head coach if they have both a strong OC and DC.

[Peregrine]

I suppose its a little too typical there is all the talk about whether Scott can be a good HC, when he has yet to show he can even be a mediocre OC.  So far his offensive work has been poor and he hasnt shown any signs of improvement in the past several years.  

 

The real reason Scott is moving down to the sidelines is because he has done a poor job, but they want to give him another chance, and indeed every chance to succeed, so they are trying to mix it up and give him a different perspective.  If the offense doesnt perform very well this season he will be fired.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

I suppose its a little too typical there is all the talk about whether Scott can be a good HC, when he has yet to show he can even be a mediocre OC.  So far his offensive work has been poor and he hasnt shown any signs of improvement in the past several years.  

 

The real reason Scott is moving down to the sidelines is because he has done a poor job, but they want to give him another chance, and indeed every chance to succeed, so they are trying to mix it up and give him a different perspective.  If the offense doesnt perform very well this season he will be fired.

I think you just nailed the exact opposite of what is real.

[Mrshadow008]

32 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

I suppose its a little too typical there is all the talk about whether Scott can be a good HC, when he has yet to show he can even be a mediocre OC.  So far his offensive work has been poor and he hasnt shown any signs of improvement in the past several years.  

 

The real reason Scott is moving down to the sidelines is because he has done a poor job, but they want to give him another chance, and indeed every chance to succeed, so they are trying to mix it up and give him a different perspective.  If the offense doesnt perform very well this season he will be fired.

they are going to fire him one season after giving him a brand new 3 year contract to keep him here through 2024? 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Chris 44 said:

I think the guys who are not seen as coaches a guy would "run through a brick wall for" but still very capable can still make it as head coach if they have both a strong OC and DC.

 

Don't feel like debating Scott Turner much more.  So, I'll just say he would strike me as one of the oddest personlaities I can think of for a HC -- he's like his dad but with less personality than him.   Stacking him up to others -- can't think of a more chill-vanilla-lack of charisma personality among any of the current head coaches.

 

I'd be surprised if that doesn't become an issue as far as becoming a HC -- especially considering his reputation isn't of a Kyle or McVay boy genius type. 

 

And this is coming from one of his bigger defenders here.  I think he's a good O coordinator but not special -- and his personality IMO screams being an assistant versus a leader of men-CEO type.  But who knows?  Will see. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

10 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

they are going to fire him one season after giving him a brand new 3 year contract to keep him here through 2024? 

they are going to fire him after finally giving him an NFL QB?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

With Robinson, we're going to be able to go back to grinding out a fundamental running game, first.

Six inches, and a Cloud of Poly-fluoroalkyl Fumes, from the turf chemicals.