The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I agree. JD is really good at diagnosing defenses pre snap, he was asked to do this almost every play, including the RO/RPO type stuff. He also gets through his progressions fast.

 

How do you know this?

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

He also gets through his progressions fast.

 

No he doesn't.  He has a pronounced tendency of hanging on reads and hesitating on throws.  He doesn't make anticipation plays, and spends an eternity in the pocket.  He also does a lousy job reading pressure.

[zCommander]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Oh no he called grown ass men dudes! No respect for his elders. Looks like this dude will no longer be drafted by the Commanders now. 

 

 

(I just wanted be the 1st out there with this conspiracy theory lol)

[mac8887]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

How do you know this?

I’ve watched enough film of JD, and on top of that, Keim reported that teams really like Jayden’s processing. Keim just doesn’t make up stuff like this 

Just now, Going Commando said:

 

No he doesn't.  He has a pronounced tendency of hanging on reads and hesitating on throws.  He doesn't make anticipation plays, and spends an eternity in the pocket.  He also does a lousy job reading pressure.

Jon Kiem said teams really like Jayden as a processer of the field, I’ll take his word over yours

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

 

 

 

.

 

Insider Notes from LSU Pro Day: Jayden Daniels passes the test, Jordan Jefferson and Mekhi Wingo shine

 

By

Tony Pauline

Modified Mar 28, 2024

 

 

There was a huge turnout for LSU pro day, as a crowd of almost 200 head coaches, general managers, position coaches, scouting directors and scouts were on hand to watch a program that has three first-round picks, including a pair of players who will be top-10 choices.

 

Quarterback Jayden Daniels did not test, but he measured 6-foot-3 5/8 inches and 210 pounds and had a hand size of 9 3/8 inches. Opinions of those on hand, including a team with an early pick in need of a signal caller, categorized the workout as, “good, not great.”

 

Daniels was inconsistent in the early going and his accuracy was off at times, yet he settled in as the workout proceeded and threw much better at the end of the session. He threw several dimes downfield and showed terrific arm strength.

 

One source told me that while J.J. McCarthy of Michigan had a better pro day workout, Daniels is a much better arm talent by a wide margin. Few on hand believe the Washington Commanders will take McCarthy over Daniels with the second selection.

 

XXXXX

 

XXXXX

 

 

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

I have watched a few peoples reviews on both QBs (Maye and JD) and I come away with the idea that JD reads defenses better and manipulates defenders better. I don't ever see you guys discussing that though and I want your opinions on it if you have any. 

 

 

@Skinsinparadise or anyone else, with a far better functioning memory than myself, could certainly do this better, and please correct me if I miss the target.

 

But I recall Keim talking about this in a couple of recent podcasts.

 

He seemed to imply that the consensus belief is that JD is definitely the superior processor and reader of defenses, compared to DM, both pre-snap and after the snap (which imho is far more relevant for NFL projections).

 

He also mentioned that JD had to do more post snap reads, because SEC defenses were far more complicated and intricate than their counterparts in the ACC, who often just lined up in the defense they were going to run with very little, if any, post-snap trickery.

 

He also said that Daniels was good at manipulating defenders with his eyes. I don't recall what he said about DM in that regard.

 

EDIT

 

Oh, another thing  worth mentioning, is that one sports reporter, (unfortunately I can't remember his name, but I don't think it was Keim) said something that I can't easily dismiss.

 

He claimed that he had done an informal polling of some of the top defenders at several SEC schools asking each of them a single question:

 

What offensive player gave you the most problems this year?

 

Every single player named Jayden Daniels.

 

In the interest of fairness I'd like to see the same thing asked of ACC defenders.

 

.

Edited March 29 by CommanderInTheRye

[Skinsinparadise]

 I have preferences but ive been making the same point among others here 

 

 

[DiscoBob]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I'm gonna import my Lamar Jackson thoughts into these comments.

 

There is a difference between how effectively teams can deal with athlete QBs in regular season games, with limited prep time, and how they get handled in the playoffs, with extra game planning.

 

A QB like Lamar has elite athletic talent, but is more limited in his processing and pocket play (I'm not trying to turn this into a debate about the extent to which Lamar has / has not improved in this area).  To win it all, any team is gonna have to make it through an elite defense (or at least an elite defensive coordinator) come playoffs.  You HAVE to be able to adapt and win in the pocket at that point.

 

So, IMO, it comes back to whether or not you can win primarily with your arm.  Who is more dangerous during the regular season really doesn't matter that much.  Without the elite arm talent, the best you can hope for is winning some division titles, followed by playoff disappointments.  Clearly that's much better than we've had around here for a long time, but if you are choosing between two potentially elite QB prospects... arm talent and decision making have to rank highest on your list by a country mile.

[spjunkies]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 I have preferences but ive been making the same point among others here 

 

 

 

This is truth. The top 4 QB's can ball! One of them might turn out to be better than the others but I seriously doubt there will be a dramatic difference. 

[Dah-Dee]

Galko at CBS talking about Daniels and, among other things, progressions:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/jayden-daniels-pro-day-inside-lsu-qbs-historic-improvement-and-why-teams-are-confident-hell-hit-his-ceiling/

 

Jayden Daniels pro day: Inside LSU QB's historic improvement and why teams are confident he'll hit his ceiling

The Heisman Trophy winner is only continuing to get better

By Eric Galko

 

Mar 27, 2024 at 6:00 am ET•4 min read

 

 

The biggest strides on film came from two key areas: a rhythmic, balanced full body throwing motion and release from a variety of platforms, and a confidence as a downfield passer he didn't have in years past. Confidence as a passer leads to trust in fundamentals and natural talent, and Daniels was oozing with confidence as a pocket and downfield passer for all of 2023.

 

Maybe more impressive, and potentially more important for his NFL transition, was his ability as a play progressor from the pocket. We often talk and hear about college quarterbacks making "NFL throws" like the coveted backside dig route.

 

The plays in the clips above all are on Daniels' second or third progression, requiring the wherewithal to stay balanced and calm as pressure comes into the A-gap, and the footwork and mechanics to adjust his body to finish the throw with ample velocity.

 

The LSU offense drastically dropped the amount of play action they used, likely in part because they trusted Daniels to work through progressions with his eyes on the defense post-snap. And Daniels' vision, anticipation and timing growth as a pocket passer proved them right, as he finished the season as one of the best mid-field throwers, especially on dig, in and post routes, in all of college football.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[skinny21]

51 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Ok.

 

But his scramble % is ridiculously high.

 

That doesn't scream "guy who constantly manipulates defenses".

 

Hard to manipulate defenses when you're spending so much time scrambling.

Out of curiosity, is your “ok” a concession that the analysts/ex-qbs are correct that he’s a fast processor?

 

I have zero take on his ability/tendency to manipulate defenders (or his processing speed), but I have to question your last two statements.  First, I haven’t seen anyone use any qualifier like “constantly”.  Second, he still threw the ball 320+ times.  I’d think that’s a reasonable sample size to judge whether he manipulates defenses.  

Again, I’m not defending his ability on that front, and I’ll add that I think one of your implied points - that running so often muddies an evaluation - is both fair and a bit of a red flag for me.

28 minutes ago, alaroche04 said:

If by processing, you mean "Malik and Brian aren't open enough for my liking...ehhh let me run" then yea, Daniels is a fast processor.

So would I be correct that your stance would be that the aforementioned analysts/ex-qbs can’t parse that info?

 

 

 

I found it interesting that early on, Quinn seemed to emphasize qbs connecting on the deep ball (I’m trying to recall what else he said), whereas at the breakfast interview, he talked about what’s going on between the ears - as though he’s been learning from Peters (and Kliff?) more about evaluation.  Maybe someone with a better memory could flesh this out…

Edited March 29 by skinny21

[Est.1974]

The prospect of getting a both a stud QB and high end LT/OT prospect in the same draft is about as good as you could want this draft.

[Dah-Dee]

Interesting September 2022 article from The Athletic on the work LSU started back then with Daniels on progressions. Daniels has acknowledged during the draft-evaluation circus that he still needs to improve there, so at least he knows.  Now I know why sometimes it seems like Daniels is doing a little tap dance in the pocket - they coached him to do that lol.

 

https://theathletic.com/3639165/2022/09/29/lsu-football-jayden-daniels-passing/

 

For LSU QB Jayden Daniels, it’s about progressing as a passer while remaining dynamic

BATON ROUGE, La. — You could see the feet moving, moving, moving. That’s how Brian Kelly wanted it. Jayden Daniels’ feet were moving so quickly you might even miss it, little baby steps so subtle but rapid, each half a second. Much quicker than even three weeks earlier against Florida State.

Daniels looked right, looked center, looked left and kept his eyes upfield in the pocket Saturday against New Mexico. That alone was the victory. That’s why this play jumped out to Kelly. Daniels made his way to the fourth read and decisively threw a line drive 20 yards through a tight spot to Jaray Jenkins in the red zone.

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

I am officially Team Drake Maye (minus his crap couple throws during his pro day) and will be furious if Washington doesn't take him.

[Skinsinparadise]

Am tempted to go this time 

 

 

[e16bball]

42 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

It wasn't. There are enough breakdowns now from several analysts and ex-QBs that dispel this. 

 

Keim isn't saying they think he's a fast processor out of thin air

Yeah, I have Maye solidly ahead of Jayden, but this is absolutely correct. He isn’t Willis or even draft-year Howell, in the sense of being a one-and-run guy. Calling him a one-read QB, or even a half-field reader is flatly wrong. He’s sort of a half-field thrower at times, just due to the college hashes, but that’s a different issue. If you give him the time, he’ll work the whole field.
 

For me, the issues come in when you don’t give him the time. Once the pocket starts to break down, I think Jayden starts to “see the field through a straw,” as @Going Commando refers to it. That’s when it seems like he’s sort of taking one last look and then taking off. Which, when you can run like he does, isn’t a bad choice. 
 

And, incidentally, I don’t think that makes him different/worse than most young QBs. The ability to hit the eject button, escape the danger, then reset and restart the processing machine again is extremely rare. It’s not a “knock” on him that he doesn’t show much ability to do that at the moment. It’s just that the two guys ahead of him can do that to a much larger extent, which is what makes them such precious commodities. 

 

34 minutes ago, mistertim said:

From the games and cutups I've seen, when it comes to manipulating defenses, Daniels can do it, but it was only occasionally. Some of that may not necessarily be on him, but because his first reads were open so often.

I agree with this also. I don’t see a ton of manipulation from Jayden, I see a lot more straightforward processing of his reads. Which is a little easier to do when you have athletes who are winning most of their matchups.
 

He does absolutely show the ability to hold a middle-field safety when he sees a one-on-one he likes, though. I consider him one of the best “touch” deep ball throwers I’ve ever watched, in terms of dropping in the go balls and the posts and the slot fades (reminds me of Cousins throwing those 25-yard slot fades). And he has developed the ability to look off those routes at first, at least long enough to give himself a window

to drop those balls in.

 

I think Maye does this more than Jayden does, but it’s inconsistent and sort of unrefined. Obviously, everyone hears the knock about him “locking on” to his first read. I think this is somewhat unfair criticism, just because he didn’t consistently have the luxury of time to comfortably go through his reads like Daniels and JJ and Penix typically did. It felt like he had to “guess” pre-snap much more than they did, in an effort to be in position to get rid of the ball quickly if needed. So it does happen where he’s clearly settled on one guy.

 

But on the other side of the coin, I also think he sometimes even over-did it with the efforts to move defenders. On one of the 4th-quarter picks I looked at the other day, he actually spent too much time trying to hold a safety/LB by looking off his (lazy ass) in-breaking route by Tez, and by the time he got his eyes (and body) back to it, the ball comes out half a tick late. Which…you like the concept and it bodes well moving forward for the cerebral game — but he’s still a 21-year-old second-year college starter, so the precision/timing of it ain’t always there yet.

[CommanderInTheRye]

4 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

I am officially Team Drake Maye (minus his crap couple throws during his pro day) and will be furious if Washington doesn't take him.

 

 

I am officially Team Washington Commanders (minus the crappy but soon to be rehabilitated stadium) and I will be in a "state of pure unadulterated ecstacy" when we make our selection in the draft, no matter who it is.

 

Edited March 29 by CommanderInTheRye

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

6 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

I am officially Team Washington Commanders (minus the crappy but soon to be rehabilitated stadium) and I will be in a "state of pure unadulterated ecstacy" when we make our selection in the draft, no matter who it is.

 

 

[Fred Jones]

35 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

 

This is truth. The top 4 QB's can ball! One of them might turn out to be better than the others but I seriously doubt there will be a dramatic difference. 

Barring the 1983 draft, statistically speaking, at least one and probably two will not be a franchise QB.  As GMAP said, the most difficult job in sports is figuring out which one (s) will.

 

And, I don't know.

[Blanka]

The mood of how the local guys talk JD in comparison to Drake is interesting. 

 

I’m listening to Keim’s Maye pro day pod now and it’s just different to the pod the day before. When Maye’s flaws are spoken on there’s more of an hesitation to the idea it gets better. Meanwhile with Jayden every flaw is met with more of confidence it can get better. Or person x said it can get better. It’s spoken more matter of fact. 

 

JP I take it for what it’s worth he clearly states he’s a JD guy. His angle makes sense. Keim generally never shows a personal lean. So I wonder where it’s coming from. I do believe they’re not leaking anything especially at the top but it is something only becoming more noticeable.

 

I live in New England where it’s pretty much the same 2 QB’s debated. The pros and cons seems more even when I just happen to catch Patriots reporters doing spots on sports radio or whatnot. 
 

Feels like DC media has a quiet confidence with Jayden while saying they don’t know anything as well. It’s just strange imo.

[seantaylor=god]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Am tempted to go this time 

 

 

If I was local, I absolutely would go.

 

I lived in NYC and went to the RG3 draft and it was a blast. It didn’t work out with RG3 but it was a great memory.

[DiscoBob]

5 minutes ago, Blanka said:

Feels like DC media has a quiet confidence with Jayden while saying they don’t know anything as well. It’s just strange imo.

 

Let's play some word association

 

When I say DC, you say........ good decision making?

 

I think not 😘

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, Blanka said:

The mood of how the local guys talk JD in comparison to Drake is interesting. 

 

I’m listening to Keim’s Maye pro day pod now and it’s just different to the pod the day before. When Maye’s flaws are spoken on there’s more of an hesitation to the idea it gets better. Meanwhile with Jayden every flaw is met with more of confidence it can get better. Or person x said it can get better. It’s spoken more matter of fact. 

 

JP I take it for what it’s worth he clearly states he’s a JD guy. His angle makes sense. Keim generally never shows a personal lean. So I wonder where it’s coming from. I do believe they’re not leaking anything especially at the top but it is something only becoming more noticeable.

 

I live in New England where it’s pretty much the same 2 QB’s debated. The pros and cons seems more even when I just happen to catch Patriots reporters doing spots on sports radio or whatnot. 
 

Feels like DC media has a quiet confidence with Jayden while saying they don’t know anything as well. It’s just strange imo.

 

So they think the guy with 5 years of starting experience can fix his flaws but somehow the guy with only 2 can't? That's an odd take.

[fanman8825]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Its gonna be Maye and its likely been Maye for a while. Everything else is due dilligence and media filling air time. 

I firmly agree. Peters has an idea for sometime. We all just have wait out the process