Koolblue13 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 If we draft a 10-14 level QB that's a huge win and itll be one of the best QBs we've ever had, so awesome. Let's get 2. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim489 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, KDawg said: Agree with the no elite prospect, as I said above. I think there are 5-6 guys that could amount to something in the NFL, more realistically four. Here's the rub: We blew it last year when we didn't trade up for Fields or Jones. Now if we don't trade up we're possibly rolling with Heinicke/Allen or Bridgewater/Mariota/Trubisky. There is no elite guy. We still need a QB or this staff isn't making it to next year. Was not into Jones at all. Think hes in the mediocre tier as well. Im in the Elite or Bust. A mediocre QB now just leads you in the fighting for playoff ceiling. Especially when he inevitably gets a contract. You have to have a top 5-10 QB to consistently be in the hunt. Its not enough to be a top half QB any more. Edited January 10, 2022 by Zim489 Added more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Zim489 said: Was not into Jones at all. Think hes in the mediocre tier as well. Im in the Elite or Bust. A mediocre QB now just leads you in the fighting for playoff ceiling. Especially when he inevitably gets a contract. I'm usually more in line with this thought. But... I'm not right now. This franchise needs some kind of hope to bring us back from the edge of laughing stock or we're going to further devolve. We also need new state of the art facilities. I'll put my hope in one hand and **** in the other. We all know which one will fill first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Zim489 said: Was not into Jones at all. Think hes in the mediocre tier as well. Im in the Elite or Bust. A mediocre QB now just leads you in the fighting for playoff ceiling. Especially when he inevitably gets a contract. You have to have a top 5-10 QB to consistently be in the hunt. Its not enough to be a top half QB any more. Agreed. You don't necessarily need Rodgers or Mahomes but you at least need a Stafford, Tannehill, or Prescott tier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Warhead36 said: Agreed. You don't necessarily need Rodgers or Mahomes but you at least need a Stafford, Tannehill, or Prescott tier. Why do we think the QBs in the class can't achieve that level? That's the level most think they can get to, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 minute ago, KDawg said: Why do we think the QBs in the class can't achieve that level? That's the level most think they can get to, actually. I have no idea if they can or not. Its up to our personnel people to figure that out. If they love a guy, go get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 If I recall correctly, 2017 was a "bad" QB draft class too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim489 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, KDawg said: We also need new state of the art facilities. I'll put my hope in one hand and **** in the other. We all know which one will fill first. Last I had heard is that Ashburn is still a **** hole 9 minutes ago, KDawg said: Why do we think the QBs in the class can't achieve that level? That's the level most think they can get to, actually. I think physical traits are more important than ever for the position. Look at the top guys now. They are all elite athletes. IMO the days of Brees Brady and Mannings being strictly pocket passers are over. Forcing a defense to account for the running ability of the QB and play 11 v 11 instead of 10 v 11 is just way too valuable. Also forces a ton more zone coverages. 6 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: If I recall correctly, 2017 was a "bad" QB draft class too... Not true. The class was extremely flawed but always thought to be a higher ceiling. Mahomes had the air raid which to that point had never produced even an average nfl QB while having some horrific mechanics. He still does. Watson had major questions about his injuries and his ability to throw the deep ball. This class doesnt have the same ceilings while all of them not sans Carson Strong's arm strength lack any sort of elite physical trait you could hang your hat on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, Zim489 said: I think physical traits are more important than ever for the position. Look at the top guys now. They are all elite athletes. IMO the days of Brees Brady and Mannings being strictly pocket passers are over. Forcing a defense to account for the running ability of the QB and play 11 v 11 instead of 10 v 11 is just way too valuable. Also forces a ton more zone coverages. Corral, Howell and Willis are all excellent athletes. Willis may even be elite. Corral is close to that. Howell isn't elite but is well above average. Pickett isn't on their level but can move a bit. Do you think these guys are pocket passers? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 This franchise is about a decade away from being widely considered perennial contender. Were a bottom 5 team. Its impossible for us to suddenly be talked about like the Chiefs or Cowboys if we dont get off the mat first. There is never going to be a rookie QB that comes in and suddenly makes us a legit team every year, without us at least being a decent team. Do I think getting someone like Carr puts us in the SB race? Yes. Bridgewater, playoffs probably. I like our players and offensive coaches. In 2 years we've built nothing and we showcased it yesterday. We need a young good QB now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim489 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, KDawg said: Corral, Howell and Willis are all excellent athletes. Willis may even be elite. Corral is close to that. Howell isn't elite but is well above average. Pickett isn't on their level but can move a bit. Do you think these guys are pocket passers? I consider elite athletes as Kyler, Josh, Younger Russ, and Lamar types. I dont put Corrall or Howell at that level. Closer to a Jimmy G level. Would also say Aaron but they dont have the arm talent that Aaron has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: This franchise is about a decade away from being widely considered perennial contender. Were a bottom 5 team. Its impossible for us to suddenly be talked about like the Chiefs or Cowboys if we dont get off the mat first. There is never going to be a rookie QB that comes in and suddenly makes us a legit team every year, without us at least being a decent team. Do I think getting someone like Carr puts us in the SB race? Yes. Bridgewater, playoffs probably. I like our players and offensive coaches. In 2 years we've built nothing and we showcased it yesterday. We need a young good QB now. With a good QB, we can add 4 wins, IMO: San-Angeles, 1 Dallas Game, 1 (if not both) Eagles games, Denver. At least. The defense got off to a slow start but rebounded. I believe Young would have gotten right. I think this team is closer than we realize because of all the injuries and Fun with COVID. How many coaches are winning 7 games with this roster and outside circumstances? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Zim489 said: I consider elite athletes as Kyler, Josh, Younger Russ, and Lamar types. I dont put Corrall or Howell at that level. Closer to a Jimmy G level. Would also say Aaron but they dont have the arm talent that Aaron has. Corral is well above Jimmy G. Howell is a better athlete than Jimmy G. Suppose we'll see at the combine. But Willis is in the category of the first guys you listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 20 minutes ago, Zim489 said: Not true. The class was extremely flawed but always thought to be a higher ceiling. Mahomes had the air raid which to that point had never produced even an average nfl QB while having some horrific mechanics. He still does. Watson had major questions about his injuries and his ability to throw the deep ball. That sounds like a really suspect class to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 There are no 3+ year rebuilds anymore. You get a QB you win basically right away. The Bengals were the worst team in the league in 2019. They get Burrow, two years later they're division champions. Chargers were picking top 5 or whatever when they got Herbert, two years later they're a win away from the playoffs(should have made it). I think the Bills have made the playoffs every year after they drafted Allen. Once you get the QB you can start winning right away. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Hey! You need to upgrade that graphic! Heinicke is 7-8 as a starter. One game under .500. Just like Sanchez, Gilbert, and Fitzpatrick! 😮 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Based on only having a couple days for prep, Gilbert > everyone but Alex Freaking horrific 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim489 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, KDawg said: Corral is well above Jimmy G. Howell is a better athlete than Jimmy G. Suppose we'll see at the combine. But Willis is in the category of the first guys you listed. I think they are in the decent to pretty good athletes. None great sans Willis. Why I am team willis if we are stuck with drafting a QB this class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: With a good QB, we can add 4 wins, IMO: San-Angeles, 1 Dallas Game, 1 (if not both) Eagles games, Denver. At least. The defense got off to a slow start but rebounded. I believe Young would have gotten right. I think this team is closer than we realize because of all the injuries and Fun with COVID. How many coaches are winning 7 games with this roster and outside circumstances? And the GB game as well. We are a double digit win team and in control, probably with the East if Smith is the QB. 2 minutes ago, Ball Security said: Hey! You need to upgrade that graphic! Heinicke is 7-8 as a starter. One game under .500. Just like Sanchez, Gilbert, and Fitzpatrick! 😮 NO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim489 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: That sounds like a really suspect class to me... Suspect > Bad ceiling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Zim489 said: Suspect > Bad ceiling Bad Ceiling = GROSS exaggeration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Alex was a baller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Zim489 said: I think they are in the decent to pretty good athletes. None great sans Willis. Why I am team willis if we are stuck with drafting a QB this class Can you please define exactly how you are coming to the conclusion of which QB is an elite vs very good athlete? What specific measurables are you looking at? What specific statistics? It feels like you're basically just winging it. Edited January 10, 2022 by mistertim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drfustercluck Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 5 hours ago, KDawg said: Isn't this what we did last year, along with winning the division? How did that carry over? I don't pretend to say we should have thrown the game. I don't believe in actively not trying to win a game. As a coach, if I were in that situation I'd be trying to win as well. That doesn't mean that winning was the best possible outcome, however. It's just my hatred of losing that drives me in that situation. As a fan, the win stinks. If this was a good Giants team that we denied a playoff spot I'd feel better about it. For Why, as a fan, does the win stink? That's a head scratcher for me. I came into this game thinking, "how will the defense approach the last game of the season?" Against a horrid team like the Giants I would hope they would show some life. They did more than that. They dominated as they should've. To me, in this game, I feel like something clicked with the defense. On top of that, they made Judge eat his words. As a fan, I was proud of our team all around. We fall, what, to the 11th pick? Could be worse. As a fan, I'll take the win over a "clown show" division rival. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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