All things defense

[Warhead36]

My fear now is that the coaches rush Young back when he isn't 100% in hopes that he'll rescue the defense, but it doesn't really work and he ends up hurting himself more.

[RandyHolt]

I often flash back to Madieu Williams finally being moved up to the LOS and blitzing when our D started taking names and we made the playoffs. Instead of watching him for 10 weeks be beaten like a rented mule at free. let the ****ty players do what they do best - stop thinking and let them be aggressive. It was clear to me after that when a DC has DBs that cannot cover - blitz them more often. Same goes for LBs. It was nice to see JDR put Jamin into position to succeed today and let him blitz (amazingly, not a delayed blitz) vs expecting him to cover St. Brown. Which he did later IIRC.

 

I don't care how bad our LBs look JDRs scheme is clearly terrible. Our D actually got gashed today more than usual. We had blown coverages again. It has to be overly complex or dated.

Edited September 19, 2022 by RandyHolt

[Conn]

I mean people have gotten so used to having not just bad, but absolutely horrific defenses here that they don’t even realize how abnormal it is even for a “normal bad” defense to consistently not even have a guy in the area when a big play happens. Mediocre or worse guys getting beat by better talent is one thing, having guys out of position ALL the time is another 

[Warhead36]

10 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I often flash back to Madieu Williams finally being moved up to the LOS and blitzing when our D started taking names and we made the playoffs. Instead of watching him for 10 weeks be beaten like a rented mule at free. let the ****ty players do what they do best - stop thinking and let them be aggressive It was clear to me after that when a DC has DBs that cannot cover - blitz them more often. Same goes for LBs. It was nice to see JDR put Jamin into position to succeed today and let him blitz (amazingly, not a delayed blitz) vs expecting him to cover St. Brown. Which he did later IIRC.

 

I don't care how bad our LBs look JDRs scheme is clearly terrible. Our D actually got gashed today more than usual. We had blown coverages again. It has to be overly complex or dated.

But Davis can't blitz on every play. He's gonna have to do other things well. He's not a 3-4 Edge. He's an OLB in a 4 or 5 man front. 

Just now, Conn said:

I mean people have gotten so used to having not just bad, but absolutely horrific defenses here that they don’t even realize how abnormal it is even for a “normal bad” defense to consistently not even have a guy in the area when a big play happens. Mediocre or worse guys getting beat by better talent is one thing, having guys out of position ALL the time is another 

Nothing personifies our D more than that Swift 3rd and 15 TD. Guy falls down, gets up, and STILL makes like three guys miss and not only gets the first down but gets a touchdown.

[NoVaSkins21]

I understand that the Wentz contract took up a big chunk of cap space, but the fact that they basically decided to run it back with everyone on defense is just dumb.  That's just asking for a bottom 5 defense.  The only addition to the heart of the defense was Mathis and now that's a loss.  Two former LBs turned Head Coach and DC should know how to scheme up a defense, but incredibly cannot.

[IrepDC]

We turned our only strength on defense into a weakness when we let Ionnadis and Settle walk. We had to replace them instead of upgrading LB with Mathis(who I like and hope fully recovers). Those offseason moves doomed us because this LB group has created a massive imbalance that JDR isn't capable of scheming around. Everything about our defensive scheme right now is to compensate for our LB group.

[BraveWarrior]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

But there is more to being a LB than pass rushing. He's not a 3-4 Edge. He needs to be a 4-3 OLB. Or 4-2 or whatever the heck it is that we run. If all he does well is blitz than teams will pick up on that.

So then, teams would at least be game planning for him, right? Because right now, they don't really have to. They can almost completely disregard him in their preparation as just some guy standing around out there and being a step behind everything going on.  

[RandyHolt]

19 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

So then, teams would at least be game planning for him, right? Because right now, they don't really have to. They can almost completely disregard him in their preparation as just some guy standing around out there and being a step behind everything going on.  

Exactly. Blitz him more often so he is not a sitting duck with a huge bullseye on his back for OC to isolate and target unfettered.

 

Drop a DL which we all know all our DCs have done on occasion. Guys on defense are just so aggressive and now that DCs largely are too so he CAN contribute. Its nice to see JDR being FAR FAR more unpredictable with his blitzing this year after having a 1970s era passive approach for most of last year. Our D is getting GASHED when not blitzing so whats the risk??

 

I think Jamin's strength right now is attacking the QB and chasing the ball and am happy to see him blitz 10+ times a day. Dictate what OCs do vs  showing Jamin in coverage every time. I guarantee they are keying on him but in his defense OCs target LBs heavily regardless.

Edited September 19, 2022 by RandyHolt

[Leonard Washington]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

My fear now is that the coaches rush Young back when he isn't 100% in hopes that he'll rescue the defense, but it doesn't really work and he ends up hurting himself more.

I don’t think it would matter. Our scheme appears to be too reactionary. We aren’t attempting to dictate the matchups we want. 

[dyst]

3 hours ago, BraveWarrior said:

Don't look now, guys. Dallas' Micah Parsons is better than anyone on our defense. And it's not only because of athletic ability. Their team seems to know what they need to do with him based on his skills, and they gameplan for that and put him in the best position to effect the game.

He’s just better. Guys like him - don’t matter what the defensive scheme or coach is. But good luck trying to convince some of our fans.

[Captain James]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

I mean people have gotten so used to having not just bad, but absolutely horrific defenses here that they don’t even realize how abnormal it is even for a “normal bad” defense to consistently not even have a guy in the area when a big play happens. Mediocre or worse guys getting beat by better talent is one thing, having guys out of position ALL the time is another 

Me after my first attempt reading this lol

Edited September 19, 2022 by Captain James

[BleedBNG]

3 hours ago, Conn said:

 

 

 

[TChaler70]

15 minutes ago, dyst said:

He’s just better. Guys like him - don’t matter what the defensive scheme or coach is. But good luck trying to convince some of our fans.

Bingo, we have ton of 1st round draft picks on that D and one of them is B level and the rest are just guys. Drafting back to back DT was stupid as heck. Not one is a game changer. Allen nice player but lets be honest goes games and we dont even know he was out there. Sweat is a Dend and his name is never called. I could go on and on.

[Captain James]

1 minute ago, BleedBNG said:

 

 

I watched that play in complete disbelief, as I'm sure most of us did. It was traumatic man.

[88Comrade2000]

Danya needs to have a talk with Ron. Tell him if defense fails miserably next week; Dan is firing Jack. If Ron doesn’t like that; he can quit.

 

 

 

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Danya needs to have a talk with Ron. Tell him if defense fails miserably next week; Dan is firing Jack. If Ron doesn’t like that; he can quit.

 

 

 

so do we want Snyder to stay out of football operations, or not? We can’t have it both ways. Forcing coaches or GM’s to make moves they don’t want to make never works out long term. Rivera sinks or swims on his own decision-making imo. Why the hell would we want Snyder getting involved again. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Conn

[Captain James]

Points-wise, our offense has been doing enough to win most games. If we even had an AVERAGE defense...

[NoCalMike]

It's not about Parsons being better than Davis. We all know it to be true, no one is even arguing it, it's about JDR using Davis to his strengths while he figures out the rest.  Whenever I watch Dallas playing, Parsons is being sent to rush the passer so much and it's not like he gets a sack every time, but after enough pressure the offense has to start to account for him.

 

Today's game Davis is sent on a blitz on the Lions first drive and we finally get to see his speed & athleticism utilized as he gets to Goff super fast for the sack.   Ok where was that the rest of the game? Why did JDR go right back to sending Davis chasing after WRs?  Maybe when Chase Young is back, the blitz won't need to be as relied upon, but for the time being the front 4 aren't exactly lighting it up in this area.  Davis's speed also cuts down on how long a QB is going to feel comfortable in the pocket.

[YourWish is MyCommanders]

14 minutes ago, Captain James said:

I watched that play in complete disbelief, as I'm sure most of us did. It was traumatic man.

I was so pissed when I watched it live. I get more irritated every time I rewatch it.

[BraveWarrior]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

But Davis can't blitz on every play. He's gonna have to do other things well. He's not a 3-4 Edge. He's an OLB in a 4 or 5 man front. 

 

He can't blitz on every play, but I'd rather have him doing it as much as possible rather than seeing him play horribly in coverage. 

 

Everyone has this mindset in the NFL now that you have to have so many guys back in coverage at all times, and that's part of why traditional linebacking has fallen out of favor. And that's been in response to pass heavy offensive gameplans. BUt even back in the late 80s and nineties when the run-and-shoot would send everyone out on routes, many teams successfully defended against it with just the addition of a 5th or 6th DB, but still usually had at least 2 LBs on the field. Defeating pass protection worked better to end the run-and-shoot than having most of the defense playing back in coverage. If our front 4 could play up their potential, and then you had a LB who could blitz from anywhere, that pressure could disrupt a lot of the offenses in the league. 

 

Sorry, that long winded paragraph is kind of this layman's way of saying LBs should still be valued, and LBs who can blitz effectively can do just as much to effect a game than having a hybrid LB/SS, or a speedy LB who thinks too much back in coverage and doesn't make plays. 

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, YourWish is MyCommanders said:

I was so pissed when I watched it live. I get more irritated every time I rewatch it.

That and not downing the punt at the 1 were the most infuriating plays of the game. 

[BraveWarrior]

33 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Danya needs to have a talk with Ron. Tell him if defense fails miserably next week; Dan is firing Jack. If Ron doesn’t like that; he can quit.

 

 

 

We've been complaining about not wanting $nyder involved in football decisions for over 20 years, and you'd be okay with him telling his HC to fire a coordinator? No, this is very bad, this idea. 

[Alexa]

2 hours ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

I understand that the Wentz contract took up a big chunk of cap space, but the fact that they basically decided to run it back with everyone on defense is just dumb.  That's just asking for a bottom 5 defense.  The only addition to the heart of the defense was Mathis and now that's a loss.  Two former LBs turned Head Coach and DC should know how to scheme up a defense, but incredibly cannot.

 They drafted Jamin Davis in the first round so yes they are dumb. 

[FLSkinz83]

That blitz on 3rd and 15 brought back memories of Jim Haslett on Monday Night against the Cowboys in 2011.  3rd and 21.

 

 

[NoCalMike]

56 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

He can't blitz on every play, but I'd rather have him doing it as much as possible rather than seeing him play horribly in coverage. 

 

Everyone has this mindset in the NFL now that you have to have so many guys back in coverage at all times, and that's part of why traditional linebacking has fallen out of favor. And that's been in response to pass heavy offensive gameplans. BUt even back in the late 80s and nineties when the run-and-shoot would send everyone out on routes, many teams successfully defended against it with just the addition of a 5th or 6th DB, but still usually had at least 2 LBs on the field. Defeating pass protection worked better to end the run-and-shoot than having most of the defense playing back in coverage. If our front 4 could play up their potential, and then you had a LB who could blitz from anywhere, that pressure could disrupt a lot of the offenses in the league. 

 

Sorry, that long winded paragraph is kind of this layman's way of saying LBs should still be valued, and LBs who can blitz effectively can do just as much to effect a game than having a hybrid LB/SS, or a speedy LB who thinks too much back in coverage and doesn't make plays. 

 

Yeah I hate that mindset because there is so much field to cover on any giving passing play that if you give a QB time to throw and a clean pocket, someone is going to find a soft area of the zone to make a catch in.  The way offenses are designed now, it seems like most throws are going to players that ran a route directly to where they know a defender won't be able to cover, and it's just a matter of whether the QB's timing is disrupted (or worse) on the play.