All things defense

[kfrankie]

So there's no thread dedicated specifically to the Montez Sweat and Chase Young trades from Tuesday, i guess someone started one but then got banned maybe.

 

Here's an interesting question.  In the days leading up to Tuesday, the "rumor" was that the Team would trade either Sweat or Young, and sign the one that was not traded.  Speculation was that the Bears were interested in Chase, and the team wanted at least a 2nd round pick.  Generally, the asking price for Sweat was reportedly slightly lower, and no reports that the Bears were interested. I also think that the general sentiment (in hindsight) was that the team wanted to trade Chase Young.

 

But suddenly the script flips, and the Bears decide to offer a 2nd rounder for Sweat. The team can't pass that up, pulls the trigger.  The team also assumes at that point that Chase may be untradeable, because the Bears backed off. But later in the day, 49ers surprise them with a 3rd round offer. 

 

My question(s) is this:

 

(1) Would the Team have traded Montez Sweat if the Bears had given up a 2nd round pick earlier in the day for Chase Young? 

(2) More specifically...  Did the team decide to trade Montez because (at that moment) the Bears had declined on Chase and the team was unsure they could trade Chase, and they felt they needed to ensure that one of them was traded? 

(3) Said another way...  ultimately, if the Team had the right to self-determination, would they have simply traded Chase Young for a 3rd rounder earlier in the day, not felt the pressure to trade at least one of them, and kept Montez Sweat?

[Conn]

23 minutes ago, kfrankie said:

So there's no thread dedicated specifically to the Montez Sweat and Chase Young trades from Tuesday, i guess someone started one but then got banned maybe.

 

Here's an interesting question.  In the days leading up to Tuesday, the "rumor" was that the Team would trade either Sweat or Young, and sign the one that was not traded.  Speculation was that the Bears were interested in Chase, and the team wanted at least a 2nd round pick.  Generally, the asking price for Sweat was reportedly slightly lower, and no reports that the Bears were interested. I also think that the general sentiment (in hindsight) was that the team wanted to trade Chase Young.

 

But suddenly the script flips, and the Bears decide to offer a 2nd rounder for Sweat. The team can't pass that up, pulls the trigger.  The team also assumes at that point that Chase may be untradeable, because the Bears backed off. But later in the day, 49ers surprise them with a 3rd round offer. 

 

My question(s) is this:

 

(1) Would the Team have traded Montez Sweat if the Bears had given up a 2nd round pick earlier in the day for Chase Young? 

(2) More specifically...  Did the team decide to trade Montez because (at that moment) the Bears had declined on Chase and the team was unsure they could trade Chase, and they felt they needed to ensure that one of them was traded? 

(3) Said another way...  ultimately, if the Team had the right to self-determination, would they have simply traded Chase Young for a 3rd rounder earlier in the day, not felt the pressure to trade at least one of them, and kept Montez Sweat?

It sounds like if the Bears hadn’t leapt in with the 2nd, the Falcons were going to get Sweat (with an extension figured out) for a 3rd.

 

The implication on Young is that there wasn’t much interest at all, so I don’t think it would have mattered if he was dealt first—Keim said we’d be surprised to hear how low the other offers were. 

 

[RVAskins]

With Young and Sweat being traded, do you think it's now more likely that we extend Kam Curl? I do, within reason.

[Conn]

25 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

With Young and Sweat being traded, do you think it's now more likely that we extend Kam Curl? I do, within reason.

Maybe. He and his dad were getting pretty loud about the EDGE trades from what I saw people saying, idk if that’s important or if it’s enough malcontent behavior to effect our future GM’s decisions. Probably not—but if Curl and his circle thing he’s going to reset the safety market, that in addition to the noise might be enough to make it a poor culture fit for the next regime. I won’t pretend to know, he could just be a good guy who loved his teammates and has a loud annoying dad with unrealistic contract expectations. We’ll find out. 

[Warhead36]

Curl is a good player but absolutely not worth setting the market for. But the good thing is we can tag him now since we've already dealt with Young and Sweat. 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, kfrankie said:

 

(3) Said another way...  ultimately, if the Team had the right to self-determination, would they have simply traded Chase Young for a 3rd rounder earlier in the day, not felt the pressure to trade at least one of them, and kept Montez Sweat?

They were both up for grabs at the right price.

[Silvernon]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Curl is a good player but absolutely not worth setting the market for. But the good thing is we can tag him now since we've already dealt with Young and Sweat. 

That was my immediate thought. They have decided to use the tag on Curl, and so they take guaranteed compensation via trade for Sweat and Young now. 

 

Curl isn't going to like it, but it is a huge raise and he is a true pro. 

[philibusters]

3 hours ago, kfrankie said:

So there's no thread dedicated specifically to the Montez Sweat and Chase Young trades from Tuesday, i guess someone started one but then got banned maybe.

 

Here's an interesting question.  In the days leading up to Tuesday, the "rumor" was that the Team would trade either Sweat or Young, and sign the one that was not traded.  Speculation was that the Bears were interested in Chase, and the team wanted at least a 2nd round pick.  Generally, the asking price for Sweat was reportedly slightly lower, and no reports that the Bears were interested. I also think that the general sentiment (in hindsight) was that the team wanted to trade Chase Young.

 

But suddenly the script flips, and the Bears decide to offer a 2nd rounder for Sweat. The team can't pass that up, pulls the trigger.  The team also assumes at that point that Chase may be untradeable, because the Bears backed off. But later in the day, 49ers surprise them with a 3rd round offer. 

 

My question(s) is this:

 

(1) Would the Team have traded Montez Sweat if the Bears had given up a 2nd round pick earlier in the day for Chase Young? 

(2) More specifically...  Did the team decide to trade Montez because (at that moment) the Bears had declined on Chase and the team was unsure they could trade Chase, and they felt they needed to ensure that one of them was traded? 

(3) Said another way...  ultimately, if the Team had the right to self-determination, would they have simply traded Chase Young for a 3rd rounder earlier in the day, not felt the pressure to trade at least one of them, and kept Montez Sweat?

 

1.   If the Bears had given up their second for Chase Young, I think we would not have traded Sweat unless a different  team like Atlanta offered a second.  Basically if they had managed to get a second for Young, I don't think they trade Sweat for less than a third because they value him and would have like to bring him back.  That said, I don't buy that the Bears ever considered trading their second for Chase seriously.

2.   I think they traded Sweat because the Bears offer was a good offer.   I think they had a good idea they would trade Young even if only for a fourth rounder.

3.  If Young traded happened first, I think they still trade Sweat for a Chicago's second because they know that will likely be a top 40 pick and that is considered a good haul for Sweat.

[Okapi p4pi]

After a day of being upset, I'm now realizing that it's a good move to trade both Sweat and Young. I liked them both a lot, but at the end of the day neither of them are elite pass rushers. And we have seen the defense play better minus Chase Young when players who are not as talented might play harder and with more discipline. I'm looking forward to Sunday just to see what changes this brings.  That being said, I will miss rooting for both Sweat and Young on our team.

 

Besides that, I was looking at some of the 2024 free agents, and with us not having to pay one or both of the DE's big money.  We could go get some players like Patrick Queen (LB), Jaylon Johnson (CB), Brian Burns (DE), Lajarius Sneed (CB), and Josh Uche (DE).  Sign me up for that!  (Not saying we could get all of them but let's say two or three of these guys and that would be exciting).

[philibusters]

1 hour ago, Okapi p4pi said:

After a day of being upset, I'm now realizing that it's a good move to trade both Sweat and Young. I liked them both a lot, but at the end of the day neither of them are elite pass rushers. And we have seen the defense play better minus Chase Young when players who are not as talented might play harder and with more discipline. I'm looking forward to Sunday just to see what changes this brings.  That being said, I will miss rooting for both Sweat and Young on our team.

 

Besides that, I was looking at some of the 2024 free agents, and with us not having to pay one or both of the DE's big money.  We could go get some players like Patrick Queen (LB), Jaylon Johnson (CB), Brian Burns (DE), Lajarius Sneed (CB), and Josh Uche (DE).  Sign me up for that!  (Not saying we could get all of them but let's say two or three of these guys and that would be exciting).

 

The sense I got was they knew they were not going to bring Chase Young back.  The main reason I don't think they had any plans to bring Young back is money.  I think Young's agent had given some signs he wants a big deal.  Lets say a big deal is 4 years 94 million.  I think given Young's injury history and given his fractured history with the coaching staff (skipping OTAs in 2021 and 2023, ignoring the coaching staff with his free lancing (in fairness to him he wasn't the only D-Lineman that freelanced), I don't think they were willing to give him top tier money.  Sure if he would sign for say 4 years 60 million I think they would have brought him back, but they knew getting a pay day (his first non-rookie contract was important) and he wasn't going to give the team a discount and given his injury history and history of free lancing a bit, they just were not willing to pay free agent market value for him.

 

And given that we have some much free agency money available, I think they realized they were likely going to have some signings that cancelled out losing him, so it was simply about getting what you can.  For San Fran the pick up makes sense because they gave up a compensatory 3rd rounder and unlike the Commanders, they won't have much money to spend in free agency this offseason, so they likely will get a compensatory pick for him, possibly a third rounder, which is what they gave up for him.

[CTskin]

Now that we see the FO shake-up underway, who knows what the plans are for curl. My tea leaf reading told me we luxury picked Quan Martin to replace curl because of curl & fam’s unrealistic asking price. 
 

curl was a diamond in the rough so I’d like to keep him, but he’s not a top safety and shouldn’t be paid as one.

[XxSpearheadxX]

30 minutes ago, CTskin said:

 

curl was a diamond in the rough so I’d like to keep him, but he’s not a top safety and shouldn’t be paid as one.

He's such a great glue player on the defense but he can't be paid like a top 5 safety that's too much

[Fan since a Fetus]

If I was a GM or a coach, the last thing I would want to deal with is some grown man’s flipping parents. No thanks, bye! 

[bowhunter]

3 hours ago, Silvernon said:

That was my immediate thought. They have decided to use the tag on Curl, and so they take guaranteed compensation via trade for Sweat and Young now. 

 

Curl isn't going to like it, but it is a huge raise and he is a true pro. 

Isn't the Franchise Tag the average of the Top 5 salaries? If he gets paid like a Top 5 player for 1 year, that sets the Floor for the next year. We have the money to give a long term deal without such a hit, and I'd prefer that.

[Silvernon]

39 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Isn't the Franchise Tag the average of the Top 5 salaries? If he gets paid like a Top 5 player for 1 year, that sets the Floor for the next year. We have the money to give a long term deal without such a hit, and I'd prefer that.

Hard to know whether they will re-sign Curl. 

 

Spent a premium pick on his replacement (Martin), and they have a starter in Forrest that probably should play closet to the line. Maybe Quan plays deeper. Either way, with so many other needs it was a puzzling pick if Curl is not headed out.  

 

Butler has played better than I expected. He may have turned a corner in mindset and taken a step. 

 

I love Curl's IQ, but I think that only convinces me that he'll want to test FA and maximize his worth. 

[Koolblue13]

10 hours ago, Silvernon said:

Hard to know whether they will re-sign Curl. 

 

Spent a premium pick on his replacement (Martin), and they have a starter in Forrest that probably should play closet to the line. Maybe Quan plays deeper. Either way, with so many other needs it was a puzzling pick if Curl is not headed out.  

 

Butler has played better than I expected. He may have turned a corner in mindset and taken a step. 

 

I love Curl's IQ, but I think that only convinces me that he'll want to test FA and maximize his worth. 

You know that near historic amount of WRs getting deep on us over the top and scoring? It's Butler who isn't getting there fast enough.

 

He's terrible. His problem in college was taking bad angles to the ball, but his blazing speed made up for it.

 

In the NFL it doesn't. Same issue with the Great Troy Apke.

[kingdaddy]

This question is likely premature but, since we dealt both of our ends and have three high picks invested in the interior of our defensive line (Allen, Payne, Mathis) does it make sense to switch to a 3-4 defense next year and sign/draft some linebackers over going with a 4-3 or 4-2-5 defense? Does anyone play a 3-4 defense anymore and are they good? I assuming JDR is gone after this season and wonder if going to a 3-4 defense would be the way to go for our personnel?

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

This question is likely premature but, since we dealt both of our ends and have three high picks invested in the interior of our defensive line (Allen, Payne, Mathis) does it make sense to switch to a 3-4 defense next year and sign/draft some linebackers over going with a 4-3 or 4-2-5 defense? Does anyone play a 3-4 defense anymore and are they good? I assuming JDR is gone after this season and wonder if going to a 3-4 defense would be the way to go for our personnel?

Good question, I’d wondered if that may be an outcome too.

[Rex Tomb]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Great Troy Apke

[Darrell Green Fan]

I clearly remember getting into a debate with a poster who was defending the indefensible that was Troy Apke. I also remember a poster arguing with me that Milne was an example of good drafting.  

 

Good times 

[philibusters]

1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I clearly remember getting into a debate with a poster who was defending the indefensible that was Troy Apke. I also remember a poster arguing with me that Milne was an example of good drafting.  

 

Good times 

 

I would not say Dax Milne was a good pick,  but he wasn't a bad pick.  He was the second to last pick of the entire draft (a 7th round compensatory pick).  He probably very mildly exceeded expectations.

[Darrell Green Fan]

7 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

I would not say Dax Milne was a good pick,  but he wasn't a bad pick.  He was the second to last pick of the entire draft (a 7th round compensatory pick).  He probably very mildly exceeded expectations.

 

Every team has an end of the roster Dax Mile found at the end of the draft or as a free agent. He was nothing to brag about.  

[philibusters]

16 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Every team has an end of the roster Dax Mile found at the end of the draft or as a free agent. He was nothing to brag about.  

 

I don't disagree.  It is just a debate where probably any strong take probably is not warranted.

[Silvernon]

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

You know that near historic amount of WRs getting deep on us over the top and scoring? It's Butler who isn't getting there fast enough.

 

He's terrible. His problem in college was taking bad angles to the ball, but his blazing speed made up for it.

 

In the NFL it doesn't. Same issue with the Great Troy Apke.

 

Forbes mostly.

Barton some. 

Johnson last weekend.

BSJ and Fuller had their moments. 

 

Other than Forbes and Barton being awful, it has been shared failure. Butler is a rotational player and playing like it, which is way better than the first couple of seasons.

There might be hope for him. He's had some surprisingly good run fits and open field tackling.  Again, this is coming from someone who completely dismissed him as a player worthy of snaps. 

 

Tagging Curl buys them two drafts to find a starter if Quan isn't a starting safety and instead a NCB or bust.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise