The Official Roster Thread or similar ;)

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Die Hard said:

 

Backup linemen? All older linemen to boot right?

 

If it’s one thing the Giants have always done…. They’ve always exceed expectations when it comes to their offensive line. I don’t know how they do it so consistently…. But it’s like how some teams always produce WR’s or RB’s or QBs. 

 

I think them exceeding expectations with the O line is really old school Giants.  Their most recent SB teams for example had good o lines.  The Giants in recent years has been thwarted by their O line arguably more than any other spot.

 

I'll give them that they keep trying.  I am surprised Will Hernandez has been "meh".  He was really good in college.  To some extent ditto as for Shane Lemieux and Andre Thomas.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-line-units-entering-2021-season

Offensive line rankings entering the 2021 NFL season

32. NEW YORK GIANTS

Giants offensive linemen have combined to produce the fifth-worst overall grade in the league over the past two years, and they rank in the bottom eight in both pass blocking and run blocking. 

Starting left tackle Nate Solder opted out in 2020, whcih hurt the team's depth up front. First-rounder Andrew Thomas started at left tackle and struggled to a 62.4 overall grade. His 54.7 pass-blocking grade also ranked just 82nd out of 89 qualifiers. Solder is currently in the mix to start at right tackle, a position he hasn’t played since his rookie year in 2011. In his two years in New York, Solder has posted a solid 75.7 grade and a career-low 64.9 mark. He could be a cap casualty before the season.

Matt Peart, a 2020 third-rounder,  is competing at right tackle after grading out at 69.7 overall on 150 snaps as a rookie. Peart enjoyed a good career at UConn and is young at the position, so he has starting potential at some point.

On the interior, Nick Gates returns after moving to center for the first time in his career in 2020. He managed just a 59.7 grade, though, ranking 29th among centers. Guard is wide open, with several players battling for the two starting spots. Will Hernandez is a three-year starter at left guard, although he hasn’t graded over 60.0 since his rookie season. Shane Lemieux played 504 snaps there last year and struggled to a 32.2 overall grade. Zach Fulton is also in the mix after recording a 63.0 overall grade last season, ranking 44th among 86 qualifying guards.

For perspective, former Giants starter Kevin Zeitler earned a 65.9 overall grade, though that’s the only time in his career with a season mark below 73.0. Kenny Wiggins and Jonotthan Harrison also have starting experience, but neither has graded above 62.1 in any season in their respective NFL careers.

The bottom line is that the Giants' offensive line is a massive question mark. They need their young players to develop and their veterans to provide career years just to rank in the middle of the pack for 2021.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Die Hard]

2 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I think recently you have the Eagles and Giants flipped.  Giants consistently blow (not that we've been much better) despite one random playoff year in 2016.  Contrast that with the Eagles who came out of nowhere in 2017 to go from I think last in the division to winning the super bowl.

I willingly admit there are outlier seasons, on occasion. But by and large, I have found this pattern has been true. And I feel very strongly about it. 😂 

[Conn]

Nothing to do with whether he’ll be a good player or not, but this is a great example of the type of mindset that is needed in a young QB testing the boundaries in practice—NOT seeing it this way and avoiding taking risks in practice is what drove coaches insane about Cousins, for those who remember:

 

Just thought it was interesting, I know we all look forward to having our own young QB prospect to dissect like this in the future. For this year, we ride with Fitzmagic. I hope he can stick around to mentor whoever the future young guy is, too. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by ConnSKINS26

[Bantu]

I'm actually feeling confident about how many players can fill in at O-line if needed, thus agreeing with the consensus on overall depth. However, there isn't a true stud player at either tackle position which makes me believe that any 5 player combo is average relative to the rest of the league. I actually do also believe better QB play will make the OL look good, too, so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. 

[Die Hard]

6 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Nothing to do with whether he’ll be a good player or not, but this is a great example of the type of mindset that is needed in a young QB testing the boundaries in practice—NOT seeing it this way and avoiding taking risks in practice is what drove coaches insane about Cousins, for those who remember:

 

 

That’s a helluva first impression for me. It’ll be interesting to see how his career unfolds.

[Skinsinparadise]

I'd add the narrative about Zach not looking hot in practice was mostly propagated by Zach himself.   He said he didn't look good and could play better and that turned into a story.  So the dude is at least self-aware which helps.

 

I've been expecting from the jump that Fitz would beat Heinicke for the job.  Having said that, I do think some of the beat guys have been a bit harsh on the idea that Heinicke is signficantly behind Fitz.  Finlay goes today on air, Fitz has looked good, Heinicke not so much. 

 

Reason being is that I think Heinicke's style lends to judging him in actual games.  He seems to be a make plays when things break down kind of player -- improviser.   the same point applies IMO to Zach Wilson.  Zach Wilson in college IMO was at his best when he was making off schedule plays versus sitting in the pocket.   And they both have sneaky really good mobility that's easier to showcase in actual games.  IMO Zach > Heinicke for multiple reasons including arm strength.   But their styles are similar in some ways IMO.  

Edited August 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Zach Wilson got that west coast/surfer/Clausen/****/Leinhart/bust vibe. 

[Dark Acre]

Zach may not be doing well, but his mom is on the all-MILF team, 1st string.

[ExoDus84]

5 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Zach may not be doing well, but his mom is on the all-MILF team, 1st string.

 

She's not bad looking, but she does have a crazy look to her. I can't put my finger on it, but I feel like she'd wear your scalp as a hat if you made her all-organic latte incorrectly.

 

[Master Blaster]

The more I keep thinking about it, the more I think the amount of safeties on this team is intentional and shows that the 4-2-5 scheme will be the base defense.  Keep an extra safety over a LB.  It also makes sense why more fit the SS mold as two will be on the field in base.

 

It also makes sense why Hudson is now listed as a MLB behind Davis as that will be the position he plays in the 4-2-5. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Master Blaster

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, I think he's down under 230lbs again.

 

What is a safety ever doing over 230 to begin with?

[method man]

2 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I meant for next year with the LT assumption. Not this year. In the end it’s still an assumption. 

 

Cosmi's arms are on the shorter side for a tackle but he should be able to play left tackle down the line if he can continue refining his technique. If he can do that, that would be huge to have a LT on a rookie deal for 3 years (2022-2024).

[method man]

6 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

The more I keep thinking about it, the more I think the amount of safeties on this team is intentional and shows that the 4-2-5 scheme will be the base defense.  Keep an extra safety over a LB. 

 

It also makes sense why Hudson is now listed as a MLB behind Davis as that will be the position he plays in the 4-2-5. 

 

Unless Hudson has gotten bigger, he is too small to be a true MLB. At his size, he would get run over in the run game. He is one of many options the team has at that nickel LB/CB/S spot (McCain, Fuller, Hudson, Bostic, Curl, Collins and Moreland). 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On the interior, Nick Gates returns after moving to center for the first time in his career in 2020. He managed just a 59.7 grade, though, ranking 29th among centers. Guard is wide open, with several players battling for the two starting spots. Will Hernandez is a three-year starter at left guard, although he hasn’t graded over 60.0 since his rookie season. Shane Lemieux played 504 snaps there last year and struggled to a 32.2 overall grade. Zach Fulton is also in the mix after recording a 63.0 overall grade last season, ranking 44th among 86 qualifying guards.

 

 

I think Zach Fulton was the 4th player to retire for the Giants since training camp began.  He's not an option anymore.  Apparently before Joe Looney retired and was a late signing he was already being slotted into the 1st team.  I read a report saying their OT situation looks OK, but their IOL is a mess with no depth to switch things up.  If I'm scheming up against them for Week 2, I'd imagine we blitz far more than usual.

[XxSpearheadxX]

12 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

She's not bad looking, but she does have a crazy look to her. I can't put my finger on it, but I feel like she'd wear your scalp as a hat if you made her all-organic latte incorrectly.

Don't stick your straw in a crazy cup. Its a hard lesson to learn. 

12 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by XxSpearheadxX

[Master Blaster]

2 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Unless Hudson has gotten bigger, he is too small to be a true MLB. At his size, he would get run over in the run game. He is one of many options the team has at that nickel LB/CB/S spot (McCain, Fuller, Hudson, Bostic, Curl, Collins and Moreland). 

 

 

Yes.  Which goes even further into my overall point that the roster is looking more and more like the 4-2-5 will be the base defense.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

9 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

The more I keep thinking about it, the more I think the amount of safeties on this team is intentional and shows that the 4-2-5 scheme will be the base defense.  Keep an extra safety over a LB.  It also makes sense why more fit the SS mold as two will be on the field in base.

 

It also makes sense why Hudson is now listed as a MLB behind Davis as that will be the position he plays in the 4-2-5. 

 

I get what you're saying, but I think the team wants the 3rd safety to be out wider than in closer to the box.  Aligned over/near the TE in the slot or something like that.  That's the role of the Buffalo nickel right?  And it sounds like our defense wants the Buffalo Nickel to be the standard they feel most comfortable putting out there.

[Master Blaster]

1 minute ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I get what you're saying, but I think the team wants the 3rd safety to be out wider than in closer to the box.  Aligned over/near the TE in the slot or something like that.  That's the role of the Buffalo nickel right?  And it sounds like our defense wants the Buffalo Nickel to be the standard they feel most comfortable putting out there.

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at as you seem to be agreeing with me?

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 minute ago, Master Blaster said:

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at as you seem to be agreeing with me?

 

Slight difference?

 

I think you're envisioning the Buffalo Nickel being aligned near the linebackers, and I'm thinking they'd be further outside?

[XxSpearheadxX]

4 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

Yes.  Which goes even further into my overall point that the roster is looking more and more like the 4-2-5 will be the base defense.

It would be what I choose as a base defense, our DBs are great tacklers 

[Master Blaster]

1 minute ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Slight difference?

 

I think you're envisioning the Buffalo Nickel being aligned near the linebackers, and I'm thinking they'd be further outside?

 

 

No I'm seeing the typical nickel formation, not a SS inside the TE.

[Tress Is The Way]

25 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

What is a safety ever doing over 230 to begin with?

If I remember correctly, Sean Taylor was at 230 coming into the NFL draft he obviously slimmed down to 215~ but 230 isn't unheard of for a safety.

Edited August 11, 2021 by ZarG3

[Die Hard]

31 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

She's not bad looking, but she does have a crazy look to her. I can't put my finger on it, but I feel like she'd wear your scalp as a hat if you made her all-organic latte incorrectly.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Or ..........Alex Smith.

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

That doesn't sound right.  Unless you're including his stint with the Browns?

 

The Patriots gave him more power and ability to mold the organization.  That's why he ditched the Jets job immediately for the Patriots.

 

Before 2020, the Bill's Patriots without Brady had the second best W/L ratio out of any franchise over that span.  So it wasn't just Brady.

 

Why wouldn't it include his stint with the Browns? He was HC there.

 

I think this season will be an interesting test of the Bill Belichick mythos.

 

He consistently fielded great teams when he also happened to have the GOAT QB...but then Brady left, took his SB winning with him, and Bill B suddenly had a ****ty team.

 

Then this offseason he seemed to have some sort of nervous breakdown/2nd midlife crisis and spent in FA like Vinny Cerrato on a 2 week coke bender. So we'll see if it pays any dividends. I've always personally thought that, while he was certainly a good coach, he was overrated as some sort of genius and mostly rode the coat tails of Brady.

 

Should be fascinating to watch.