The Official Roster Thread or similar ;)

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Burgold]

This may be outdated thinking, but I always thought that you don't measure a defensive tackle's success in terms of sacks. Their job is to cause chaos, penetrate and disrupt the line thus allowing the ends and linebackers to grab the glory and finish the job.

[Koolblue13]

18 minutes ago, Borgold said:

This may be outdated thinking, but I always thought that you don't measure a defensive tackle's success in terms of sacks. Their job is to cause chaos, penetrate and disrupt the line thus allowing the ends and linebackers to grab the glory and finish the job.

Pretty much. Depends on their assignments. Payne is generally the chaos maker that draws all the blockers and closes the line up. Allen goes up field more often, but in theory, you're right.

[Llevron]

10 hours ago, Leonard Washington said:

Perfect response.
 

Allen is 100% the type of player you want around as long as he will have us.  Chase comes across as the team leader but I bet if Allen tells him to STFU, Chase will. 

 

Allen strikes me as the type to let Chase lead but still carry the ability to veto if he wants to. Quiet but his presence carries all the weight for him and everyone in there knows it. The quiet leader if that make sense. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/31776559/ranking-nfl-top-10-safeties-2021-execs-coaches-players-make-their-picks

 

Landon Collins, Washington Football Team: "Still can be productive, and he will be good for [Washington's] defense. Not sure he's as good as Budda Baker and Jamal Adams in that realm of elite line-of-scrimmage players." -- AFC defensive coach

 

 

Landon Collins got a vote?  Despite trying to overcome an Achilles injury, his 2020 play was below average.  I guess if the defensive coach only wants to view him as a LoS player...so box safety only?  Maybe with Bobby McCain we can do some Cover 1/3 and Landon can just stay in underzones the entire time.

[Koolblue13]

14 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Allen strikes me as the type to let Chase lead but still carry the ability to veto if he wants to. Quiet but his presence carries all the weight for him and everyone in there knows it. The quiet leader if that make sense. 

Hes the stage on which chase can stand.

[Tress Is The Way]

16 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Allen strikes me as the type to let Chase lead but still carry the ability to veto if he wants to. Quiet but his presence carries all the weight for him and everyone in there knows it. The quiet leader if that make sense. 

This.

 

Interior DL aren't known to accrue sacks (unless your name is Aaron Donald). Comparing him to other IDLs (Geno Atkins, Fletcher Cox, Suh) he is right on par with them.

 

Let us also remember he has played in the 3-4 as a DE three out of his four years in the NFL, last year was his first year as a true DT.

Edited July 9, 2021 by ZarG3

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/31776559/ranking-nfl-top-10-safeties-2021-execs-coaches-players-make-their-picks

 

Landon Collins, Washington Football Team: "Still can be productive, and he will be good for [Washington's] defense. Not sure he's as good as Budda Baker and Jamal Adams in that realm of elite line-of-scrimmage players." -- AFC defensive coach

 

 

Landon Collins got a vote?  Despite trying to overcome an Achilles injury, his 2020 play was below average.  I guess if the defensive coach only wants to view him as a LoS player...so box safety only?  Maybe with Bobby McCain we can do some Cover 1/3 and Landon can just stay in underzones the entire time.

Thats the idea. McCain single high, CBs man press, Collins as a blitzer/rusher and that's how it was when he was all pro. That's pretty much the JDR style. 

 

I'm probably higher on Collins than anyone else on the board and think we really lacked his presence in the run game last year. FS also really held us back from being able to let the SS go full attack LoS mode.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Collins gets 10 sacks this year.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Thats the idea. McCain single high, CBs man press, Collins as a blitzer/rusher and that's how it was when he was all pro. That's pretty much the JDR style. 

 

I'm probably higher on Collins than anyone else on the board and think we really lacked his presence in the run game last year. FS also really held us back from being able to let the SS go full attack LoS mode.

I mean, you can't be just single high though (unless you have prime Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman).  Some teams are better at attacking a Cover 1/3, and for those some switches to Cover 2/4, or Cover 6 since we've got William Jackson (and hopefully Juice) who could make it work.

 

We had nobody who could so Single High last year, so we were mostly Cover 2/4 with corners in off-coverage.  That was inconsistent at best with Landon Collins.  Kam Curl started making it work.  But regardless, the well coached teams exploited our zone coverages, because that was all we could run with our personnel.  The Rams and Bucs made us look silly.  Against teams like those, we'd need to swap coverages to keep them guessing.

 

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Collins gets 10 sacks this year.

 

Jamal Adams is a 10 sack safety, is anyone else, in the history of the NFL at DB gotten close to that?  He's a solid pass rushing safety, but he's not special.  No safety is, except somehow for Adams, who just reads the flow of the pocket so damn well and is athletic enough to capitalize.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Alcoholic Zebra

[Koolblue13]

15 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

I mean, you can't be just single high though (unless you have prime Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman).  Some teams are better at attacking a Cover 1/3, and for those some switches to Cover 2/4, or Cover 6 since we've got William Jackson (and hopefully Juice) who could make it work.

 

We had nobody who could so Single High last year, so we were mostly Cover 2/4 with corners in off-coverage.  That was inconsistent at best with Landon Collins.  Kam Curl started making it work.  But regardless, the well coached teams exploited our zone coverages, because that was all we could run with our personnel.  The Rams and Bucs made us look silly.  Against teams like those, we'd need to swap coverages to keep them guessing.

 

 

Jamal Adams is a 10 sack safety, is anyone else, in the history of the NFL at DB gotten close to that?  He's a solid pass rushing safety, but he's not special.  No safety is, except somehow for Adams, who just reads the flow of the pocket so damn well and is athletic enough to capitalize.

To the first part, yes. We will not be playing the same exact coverage every week or every play, but our base will be a single high.

 

I think Collins has a chance to do it, because JDR loves his inside blitzing and we don't have anyone else who can do it, unless Davis shows out. I think Collins will get a lot of chances. It's going to be interesting to see how Curl is used, because I think we'll see him and Collins on the field together at times. Fuller is pretty versatile too, so if Juste can play, he's another piece. 

 

I see Collins playing a similar role to the Joker, which is primarily a LB. 

[HTTRDynasty]

NFL All Under 25 Defensive Team: Chase Young, Minkah Fitzpatrick headline star-studded youth movement

Here are the best defensive players in the NFL under 25 years old

EDGE: Chase Young (Washington)

Chase Young

WAS • DE • 99

View Profile

Young has just one season under his belt, but is already the envy of every defensive coordinator in the NFL. Coming out of college, he was looked at as a generational pass-rusher, so his immediate impact in the league shouldn't come as too much of a surprise, but it was awe-inspiring and only makes you more excited for what the rest of his career could be. In 15 games played, he totaled 7.5 sacks, 24 pressures, and 32 total tackles for Washington. Young also forced three fumbles, recovered three, and has a touchdown to his name. He did all that at just the ripe age of 21. At 6-foot-5, 264 pounds, he's an athletic freak that moves with ease. On top of his talent, Young also seems to be the type of leader that can truly become the face of a franchise, which is reminiscent of J.J. Watt's early days with the Houston Texans. That's the caliber Young is set to put himself in.

 

Second Team

EDGE: Montez Sweat (Washington)
IDL: Daron Payne (Washington)

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-all-under-25-defensive-team-chase-young-minkah-fitzpatrick-headline-star-studded-youth-movement/

[wit33]

18 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

NFL All Under 25 Defensive Team: Chase Young, Minkah Fitzpatrick headline star-studded youth movement

Here are the best defensive players in the NFL under 25 years old

EDGE: Chase Young (Washington)

Chase Young

WAS • DE • 99

View Profile

Young has just one season under his belt, but is already the envy of every defensive coordinator in the NFL. Coming out of college, he was looked at as a generational pass-rusher, so his immediate impact in the league shouldn't come as too much of a surprise, but it was awe-inspiring and only makes you more excited for what the rest of his career could be. In 15 games played, he totaled 7.5 sacks, 24 pressures, and 32 total tackles for Washington. Young also forced three fumbles, recovered three, and has a touchdown to his name. He did all that at just the ripe age of 21. At 6-foot-5, 264 pounds, he's an athletic freak that moves with ease. On top of his talent, Young also seems to be the type of leader that can truly become the face of a franchise, which is reminiscent of J.J. Watt's early days with the Houston Texans. That's the caliber Young is set to put himself in.

 

Second Team

EDGE: Montez Sweat (Washington)
IDL: Daron Payne (Washington)

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-all-under-25-defensive-team-chase-young-minkah-fitzpatrick-headline-star-studded-youth-movement/

By my count, which I was hoping another graphic @Skinsinparadise posted would share is Chase forcing 4 interceptions with his direct pressures. That graphic listed that stat for some others, but not Chase. 
 

Exciting stuff!

[Warhead36]

I forgot how young Daron Payne is. He's already accrued three seasons and just hit 24.

[skinsfan93]

4 hours ago, Borgold said:

This may be outdated thinking, but I always thought that you don't measure a defensive tackle's success in terms of sacks. Their job is to cause chaos, penetrate and disrupt the line thus allowing the ends and linebackers to grab the glory and finish the job.

Generally I would agree with this something like Vince Wolfork who just clogged the middle but Allen is not that type of wide body or will be that type of player. Is he a very good tackle?  … absolutely but creating havoc and chaos, I’ll take Payne. If I had to choose and we will need to at some point bc we can’t keep all four guys long term, I would keep Payne over Allen.  I am fully expecting Payne to be our next Aaron Donald or at least a poor mans Warren Sapp. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

By my count, which I was hoping another graphic @Skinsinparadise posted would share is Chase forcing 4 interceptions with his direct pressures. That graphic listed that stat for some others, but not Chase. 
 

Exciting stuff!

 

Chase might be my all time draft crush.  I recall watching 4 games of his in a row and was just blown away but how disruptive he was from play to play.  I have never a seen a dude that disruptive in my years watching draft prospects. 

 

My take came after rewatching our own D line that same off season pretty closely where I posted a bunch of clips and added my 2 cent impressions of what we had.  I love our D lineman but none of them brought consistent disruption as to pass rush.  They did it in spurts but it wasn't play after play after play.  I think few D lineman can do that.  Aaron Donald being one of those guys.  Chase to me is another guy like that.  It's no shocker to me how much he was double teamed last season even though it was his rookie season.

 

The thing about Chase is often rookie edge rushers don't light the world on fire their first year.  It takes some time typically to bloom.  And then add that he played most of the year banged up.  So I think the sky is the limit with this dude.    The kicker to me is if you read his interviews and what some have said about him -- he has the relentless desire to be great.  As Cooley likes to point out, most players he's played with didn't love football and if he were a GM he'd spend a lot of energy to deduce whether prospects love football and have that desire to be great -- IMO Chase Young comes off a 10 out of 10 on that front. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[bakedtater1]

2.     Months.

[HTTRDynasty]

Ran very little Man last year compared to how good we were at it.  Enter WJIII. 
 

 

 

[Silvernon]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Ran very little Man last year compared to how good we were at it.  Enter WJIII. 
 

 

Wow. 

 

Really does feel like the team acquired upper-tier FA talent on O (Samuel) and D (WJ3). 

 

Still not paid as much as Josh Norman was paid, am I right? Better times are definitely here.  

 

Often lost in the ability for JDR to transform defenses within 2 years is the addition of talent that suits the scheme. 

[PlayAction]

19 hours ago, skinsfan93 said:

Generally I would agree with this something like Vince Wolfork who just clogged the middle but Allen is not that type of wide body or will be that type of player. Is he a very good tackle?  … absolutely but creating havoc and chaos, I’ll take Payne. If I had to choose and we will need to at some point bc we can’t keep all four guys long term, I would keep Payne over Allen.  I am fully expecting Payne to be our next Aaron Donald or at least a poor mans Warren Sapp. 

 

IMO, Rivera made the right move in bringing in experienced personnel executives.  There are tough decisions looming with the first contract renewals having a significant impact on the ability to sign the others in the future.  The coaches and the executives will have to work together to maximize the output for the DL as a whole.  Does Payne really create havoc and chaos?  I haven't seen him as Warren Sapp-lite in prior years but last year was the first in this new defensive scheme.  We should see how all of the defensive players fit now that the entire defense is looking to be more complete.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

22 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Ran very little Man last year compared to how good we were at it.  Enter WJIII. 
 

 

 

 

I'm guessing we only ran Man against offenses we knew couldn't beat us that way?

21 hours ago, Silvernon said:

 

Wow. 

 

Really does feel like the team acquired upper-tier FA talent on O (Samuel) and D (WJ3). 

 

Still not paid as much as Josh Norman was paid, am I right? Better times are definitely here.  

 

Often lost in the ability for JDR to transform defenses within 2 years is the addition of talent that suits the scheme. 

 

Nowhere near Josh Norman's contract.  He set the market for CB's, whereas WJ3 is 10th.

 

It really helps the cap dropped scaring every team from giving big contracts.

[bakedtater1]

Hey just before we start tc here shortly...I just wanna say thank you to those who bring goodies..ty..heres looking at you sip

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Who will be considered the division's MVP?

Archer: Prescott is the easy choice. There are obvious questions as he returns from a compound fracture and dislocation of his right ankle suffered last October, but he has shown he has all the answers so far. If Prescott returns to form, the Cowboys are the favorite to win the division. They were awful without him last season but weren't eliminated from playoff contention until the final weeks of the season. If Prescott returns to Prescott form, the Cowboys will be the team to beat. So not only will he be the division's MVP, he could be in the running for league MVP as well as the NFL Comeback Player of the Year.

 

Raanan: Chase Young had 7.5 sacks and four forced fumbles as a rookie in 15 games for Washington last season. If he stays healthy, his sack tally will double and Washington's defense will be one of the league's best. Actually, it already was last season, and there is little reason to think it won't be again in 2021. Only this time, it will be with Young taking it to the next level and putting up massive numbers while Washington wins back-to-back division titles.

Keim: Prescott feels like a safe pick because of what he means to the Cowboys' offense and franchise. Washington running back Antonio Gibson is another to watch here, but Prescott will put up big numbers, provided he's fully healthy. In his past 21 games, Dallas' offense ranked first in yards and second in points. The Cowboys' defense must come through in a big way to win the division, but Prescott will be the reason they contend.

McManus: Offensive players get all the love, and Prescott will understandably be the consensus pick here, but I'll roll the dice on Young, a budding superstar. (How many other players in the division fit that description?) He matched the hype coming out of Ohio State by racking up 7.5 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 10 tackles for loss en route to NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year honors in 2020. It's not hard to envision him springing toward the top of the sack leaderboard this season while developing into the most disruptive defensive player in the NFC East.

11 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Hey just before we start tc here shortly...I just wanna say thank you to those who bring goodies..ty..heres looking at you sip

 

I am likely going to training camp and if so I'll share my takes,  Camp can't come soon enough.  😀

[Skinsinparadise]

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/31795706/ranking-nfl-top-10-interior-offensive-linemen-2021-execs-coaches-players-make-their-picks

 

A year ago, NFL evaluators bemoaned the lack of elite play when ranking the league's top guards and centers. This year's list appears stronger. The top three players only strengthened their cases, and promising young centers replaced aging players.

Other veterans got better --- and had to, with an ascending guard from Green Bay rising in the pantheon. Defenses around the league are prioritizing inside quarterback pressure, resulting in an impressive list of defensive tackles and 3-4 defensive ends. Offenses know they must be ready; the top player certainly is.

 

1. Quenton Nelson, G, Indianapolis Colts

Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: 2
Age: 25 | Last year's ranking: 1

In collecting the ballots for each position, Nelson got the highest percentage of first-place votes of any player outside of Aaron Donald. The dominance label is used loosely, but Nelson has that ability.

"It's power, athleticism and want-to; he's determined to not lose that block," a veteran NFL linebacker said. "He came out of the gate saying, 'I'm a No. 1 pick, I'm the best and I'm gonna [pummel] you.'"

 

The one knock on Nelson last season was he tried too hard for the splash play -- the big pancake -- and missed a few blocks as a result. "You can bait him into being overaggressive," the linebacker said.

Some coaches believe Nelson improved in that area, with five run-block whiffs on 416 running plays, which is a good clip. Nelson's 78.9% run-block win rate led all interior linemen, and his 95.5% pass-block win rate ranked third among guards.

---

2. Zack Martin, G, Dallas Cowboys

Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: 4
Age: 30 | Last year's ranking: 2

Arguably the most complete guard of the past decade put together a complete body of work in 2020. In 10 games, Martin posted a stellar 91.3 Pro Football Focus grade, and he ranked in the top four among guards in run-block win rate (76.7%) and pass-block win rate (95.9%).

"He's got it all," a veteran NFL defensive player said. "There's really no weakness. The only thing that can stop him is injuries, and even then, he basically looks the same."

Martin has four All-Pro nods in seven seasons, and he was probably on his way to a fifth before a calf injury cost him six games.

---

3. Brandon Scherff, G, Washington Football Team

Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: 10
Age: 29 | Last year's ranking: 3

Scherff played 13 games last season -- his most since 2017 -- and shined in the run game with a 75.7% block win rate. One of the game's premier guards is going on his second franchise tag and will be tough for Washington to re-sign because of his immense value and leverage.

"Great puller and very good in the run game," an NFL coordinator said. "I'd probably put him behind those two [Nelson and Martin] in pass pro."

Scherff did have 13 run-block whiffs, tied for most in this group. But teams are generally OK with a little overaggression here if it fuels the player's edge.

---

4. Frank Ragnow, C, Detroit Lions

Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: 10
Age: 25 | Last year's ranking: N/A

Ragnow was not a fixture in last year's rankings, but he surged in a big way this year, fresh off a $54 million extension with Detroit. He has always been good, but enough people are finally starting to notice, voters said.

"He can run the whole line, great communicator, takes pressure off the quarterback, athletic enough to pull, can play guard if you need," an NFC scout said. "Some centers can't do that. He's probably the most versatile center right now."

Ragnow ranked fourth among centers with a 74.2% run-block win rate and eighth in pass blocking at 94.8%.

---

5. Joel Bitonio, G, Cleveland Browns

Highest ranking: 5 | Lowest ranking: 11
Age: 29 | Last year's ranking: 7

People in the AFC North believe Bitonio might be coming off his best pro season.

"He's really good," a longtime AFC defensive player said. "Great strength once he gets his hands on you, and he's good at climbing up to the second level after a double-team."

Bitonio led all guards with a 97.3% pass-block win rate, and his 84.6 Pro Football Focus rating was among the best. As many voters noted, Cleveland's entire offensive line is good. Bitonio is a catalyst for that attack.

---

6. Joe Thuney, G, Kansas City Chiefs

Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: 12
Age: 28 | Last year's ranking: 5

The money speaks to Thuney's big-time ability. Yes, free agents often get overpaid. But Kansas City signing the former New England lineman to a five-year, $80 million deal didn't feel like a stretch, because Thuney has been in the top five to top seven of interior players for a few years now.

"Combination of technique, intelligence and control. Very, very dependable," an AFC exec said.

Thuney's 92.9% pass-block win rate and 72.3% run-block win rate are solid but unspectacular, though New England's offense was down as a whole last season.

Thuney can play guard or center with ease, and one NFC exec calls him a "quiet player": not flashy, but he'll leave the game without giving up negative plays.

---

7. Elgton Jenkins, G, Green Bay Packers

Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: 13
Age: 25 | Last year's ranking: Honorable mention

Jenkins is considered a rising star and will anchor the Packers' interior line after the departure of Corey Linsley.

"He's outstanding," one high-ranking NFL official said.

As an AFC defensive coach added, "Really good feet, anchor, ideal size. Pass protects better than most interior players."

More than a few voters noticed Jenkins verbally sparred with Aaron Donald between plays of the Packers-Rams postseason game, so Jenkins isn't afraid of the biggest and baddest. Jenkins also can play all five spots on the line, which teams covet. He played pass-block snaps at guard, center and tackle in 2020.

---

8. Rodger Saffold, G, Tennessee Titans

Highest ranking: 3 | Lowest ranking: 14
Age: 33 | Last year's ranking: Honorable mention

Safford was a fringe top-10 guy last year but worked his way up due to his body of work.

His numbers weren't spectacular -- a 66.9% run-block and 86.4% pass-block win rate are considered slightly below average -- but evaluators say he is central to Tennessee's offensive success, which revolves around pounding the rock with Derrick Henry.

"He plays hard and aggressive; he can run, pull, hit," an NFC scout said. "A lot of what they do goes through him."

---

9. Rodney Hudson, C, Arizona Cardinals

Highest ranking: 4 | Lowest ranking: 15
Age: 32 | Last year's ranking: 6

Hudson is still regarded as one of the game's best centers despite a 66.3% pass-block rate and an offseason trade from Las Vegas to Arizona. The Cardinals are banking on his intangibles to impact Kyler Murray's game.

"At Florida State, we used to call him Mr. Velcro: 'Please don't slam me, Mr. Velcro,'" said a former Seminoles teammate and longtime NFL player. "He's just always been a different level athletically, and that hasn't really changed."

As an AFC defensive coach added, "When I found out [Las Vegas] was trading guys like that, I was like, why didn't we get him? He still has something left -- at least two to three really good years."

---

10. Erik McCoy, C, New Orleans Saints

Highest ranking: 3 | Lowest ranking: Off ballot
Age: 25 | Last year's ranking: Honorable mention

McCoy didn't get the most votes, but those who are high on him are really high on him. He got several top-five nods due to his combination of traits, size, range and power.

"He's got the chance to surpass all of those guys [at center]," an NFC exec said. "Once he cleans up some technique stuff, playing with patience, he'll be a marquee name. He's got everything else. He's a big part of all of those [Alvin Kamara] runs with his ability to blow you off the ball and to get downfield."

The exec noted McCoy projected as a guard out of Texas A&M due to his 6-foot-4, 315-pound frame, which only raises his ceiling as a center, since most aren't as big.

---

Centers and guards also receiving votes

Ryan Kelly, C, Indianapolis Colts: "He's got everything you need: Strength, athleticism, smarts. A good interior guy can push him back some, but he can return the favor too." -- AFC exec

Ali Marpet, G, Tampa Bay Buccaneers: "Not all that gifted, but you hate playing against him and that center [Ryan Jensen]. They are a--holes, and I mean that in the best possible way." -- AFC defensive coach

Wyatt Teller, G, Cleveland Browns: "Came out of nowhere. He tries to punish people. I like his style. That whole Browns O-line is good." -- AFC defensive player

 

Corey Linsley, C, Los Angeles Chargers: "Dependable, can run the show, good technique, will be great for the young quarterback [Justin Herbert]." -- NFC exec

Brandon Brooks, G, Philadelphia Eagles: "Should be high on the list. I think he's just easily forgotten about because of the injuries." -- AFC exec

Ryan Jensen, C, Tampa Bay Buccaneers: "His aggression and intensity raises everyone's level. Constantly pushes his linemen." -- NFL veteran linebacker

Brandon Linder, C, Jacksonville Jaguars: "Very underrated player. He has length and good athleticism, savvy. He just plays in Jacksonville, so he doesn't get much credit." -- AFC scout

Jason Kelce, C, Philadelphia Eagles: "Still love the player, but he's approaching the end." -- AFC scout

[Anselmheifer]

The hype train continues.

[skinsfan93]

23 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

IMO, Rivera made the right move in bringing in experienced personnel executives.  There are tough decisions looming with the first contract renewals having a significant impact on the ability to sign the others in the future.  The coaches and the executives will have to work together to maximize the output for the DL as a whole.  Does Payne really create havoc and chaos?  I haven't seen him as Warren Sapp-lite in prior years but last year was the first in this new defensive scheme.  We should see how all of the defensive players fit now that the entire defense is looking to be more complete.  

I agree. Payne hasn’t yet been that guy who creates havoc and chaos but I see him more that way than Allen. I think Allen has hit his top peak but Payne has more upside. Keep in mind he’s still very young. 
 

This year will show us and the top brass who we should resign. My money is on Payne bringing the pain 😉. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by skinsfan93