2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

One of the criticisms of the Wentz deal (might have been Chris Russell, because he is so annoying and such an incredibly sensitive cry baby) was crying about exactly this point. And all I could think was "And these are more important than a QB?"

 

 

My obligatory comment that Chris Russell is a know-nothing, almost single-sourced reporter, where that source tends to be a bad defensive coach (Haz/Barry/Manusky) or a second rate executive (Eric Schaffer), who has an annoying speech pattern with lots of ill-timed pregnant pauses who is a combination of annoying, mostly poorly informed, very loyal to his bad sources, and one to create as much of a ruckus as possible in the biggest "look at me" type of way possible.  

 

 

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

So in essence... We traded a 5th and used our 3rd to draft Carson Wentz.

As others have mentioned, the fifth went for possibly the most consistent performer of the 2021 draft class, and the player with CLEARLY the best name, the ONE AND ONLY Cheeseman!  I'd do that trade 100 times out of 100 again.  Give me the Cheeseman.  And I'm hungry, so give me a Cheeseburger.  

 

 

2 hours ago, Ball Security said:

Listening to the Junkies, take it for what it’s worth, they’ve identified two guys that they view as elite.  Their preference is not to take a WR at 11, but would like to trade down to get one.

I think Hamilton is going to be one of those elite guys, and if he is there, they will take him.  I hope he's not, because I want to spend resources on offense and not defense.

 

It's no longer true that offense wins games and defense wins championships.  It's now true that offense wins everything as long as your defense is, as Ovi famously said, "not suck."

 

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Remember this is lying season.  

 

1 hour ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

Are you really trying to compare Bruce Allen days with our current FO?

 

What we did then means nothing now.

 

There is a god! Thank you Lord!

Just as a correction, the draft which was mentioned with the 3 2nd round picks, as I've dubbed "the draft we do not speak of" was under the watchful eye of bug-eyes himself, Vinny Cerato.  The point still holds, but you got the wrong idiot GM.  

[RWJ]

3 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Will Brinson from CBS sports was on The Junkies this morning and said all their sources from around the league are now saying #11 is the floor for Hamilton.  If Hamilton is there for Washington, they're taking him.  It's an update because he actually mocked WR Garrett Wilson to the Commanders and had Hamilton going to Eagles at #18 nine days ago.

 

Who knows....LOL

Torn on Hamilton.  He'd be a great trade chip as we can find other FS and I think Daxton Hill is the best of the bunch, IMO and could be drafted about 23-26 range maybe even later but doubt it.   If London or Wilson are there at #11, I'd take them.  If both are gone I would trade down with Olave still being available to #14 and pick up a 3rd then draft him.  If Hamilton is there I'd take a bounty of picks as I think we could move down and teams would be in a bidding war.  Just me.   

[KDawg]

I don't believe a single report about draft strategy that comes out from now until after the draft.

 

If I was Washington and I WAS targeting a receiver I'd tell people I wasn't. And then I'd say we're taking Hamilton no matter what... to force a team ahead of us to possibly trade up for Hamilton and keep receivers on the board. Or, maybe, I'd leak that and it would actually be my strategy but then people would think that the former was my strategy.

[Warhead36]

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don't believe a single report about draft strategy that comes out from now until after the draft.

 

If I was Washington and I WAS targeting a receiver I'd tell people I wasn't. And then I'd say we're taking Hamilton no matter what... to force a team ahead of us to possibly trade up for Hamilton and keep receivers on the board. Or, maybe, I'd leak that and it would actually be my strategy but then people would think that the former was my strategy.

I just don't think we're that crafty of an organization. And Rivera is pretty much a straight shooter.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I just don't think we're that crafty of an organization. And Rivera is pretty much a straight shooter.

 

Rivera likes the strategy in the game.

 

And, quite frankly, it could be coming from anyone. It may not even be a real report on fact. Maybe it's from the secretary's spouse.

[Forever A Redskin]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don't believe a single report about draft strategy that comes out from now until after the draft.

 

If I was Washington and I WAS targeting a receiver I'd tell people I wasn't. And then I'd say we're taking Hamilton no matter what... to force a team ahead of us to possibly trade up for Hamilton and keep receivers on the board. Or, maybe, I'd leak that and it would actually be my strategy but then people would think that the former was my strategy.

 

I think it's exactly why we've been obvious with the Olave interest and Hamilton. Anyone who falls to us they want the other teams to think we're going to seriously take at 11. I believe the line that they dont feel there is a bunch of superstar talent, because there isn't.

 

Also, I'm curious to how people feel about Landon Collins vs Hamilton at buffalo nickel (because that's the position Hamilton would play) Would Hamilton be significantly better? If not, then you trade down.

 

The interest to trade down in real. Just a matter if we find the dance partner or not. keim is the most plugged in and has harped on it lately.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Forever A Redskin

[Warhead36]

Yeah I will say I don't buy that we don't want a WR. Remember Rivera went hard for Amari Cooper when he first hit FA a couple years back. He paid big bucks(relative to the time) for Curtis Samuel. He knows how much we suck at the position outside of McLaurin.

 

I think he really wants Olave but not at 11. We're gonna try hard to trade down and recoup some of the value we lost from the Wentz trade.

7 minutes ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

I think it's exactly why we've been obvious with the Olave interest and Hamilton. Anyone who falls to us they want the other teams to think we're going to seriously take at 11. I believe the line that they dont feel there is a bunch of superstar talent, because there isn't.

 

Also, I'm curious to how people feel about Landon Collins vs Hamilton at buffalo nickel (because that's the position Hamilton would play) Would Hamilton be significantly better? If not, then you trade down.

Hamilton can cover so he'd be a big upgrade over Collins. Maybe he's not a rangy single high cover Safety but he can at least patrol the short/intermediate zone stuff and not get completely destroyed by TEs or RBs out of the backfield. Just don't ask him to cover speedy WRs man to man out of the slot.

[Skinsinparadise]

51 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I'm not opposed to the idea of trading back, but I don't want to do it just for the sake of doing it or out of panic because we feel like we need to fill more holes.

 

If we're at 11 and we don't have a guy who we really like and have a top grade on, and have a few guys who we're pretty sure will be there when we pick after trading back, then by all means do it (of course that's if there's an offer on the table, which is another thing I think some people seem to be assuming, but is far from a certainty).

 

But if we're at 11 and a guy we love is there then just take him and don't try to be clever, which is what I think has come back to bite us in the past. IMO that's how we ended up with the trades in your examples. Kerrigan instead of Watt, Murphy instead of Lawrence etc etc.

 

Yeah for example we both agreed the 2018 draft where they took Payne if they had the opportunity to trade back they should have.  Payne dropping to 13 wasn't in our opinion a must take because Payne was just rock star level I can't believe that dude is still there at 13 great.  I recall Payne in the low 20s in a bunch of mocks and even if they were off on that, you still had guys they supposedly liked ala Edmonds and Derwin James still on the board.  That was a no brainer draft to trade back IMO.

 

But the year before where Jonathan Allen fell to their pick, that was a shocker, take the dude and run up to the podium to hand in the card.

 

it all depends on context.

 

In theory i like the idea of trading down everything being equal.  But at the same time I am well aware that trading down has mostly burned us over the years.  

Edited April 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

 

 

I think he really wants Olave but not at 11. We're gonna try hard to trade down and recoup some of the value we lost from the Wentz trade.

Hamilton can cover so he'd be a big upgrade over Collins. Maybe he's not a rangy single high cover Safety but he can at least patrol the short/intermediate zone stuff and not get completely destroyed by TEs or RBs out of the backfield. Just don't ask him to cover speedy WRs man to man out of the slot.

I've read that Hamilton is a tight end eraser. Given how this team has been absolutely killed by tight ends over the last decade I would love a tight end eraser. To be honest, that's what I hoped Jamin Davis would be or grow into.

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah for example we both agreed the 2018 draft where they took Payne if they had the opportunity to trade back they should have.  Payne dropping to 13 wasn't in our opinion a must take because Payne was just rock star level I can't believe that dude is still there at 13 great.  I recall Payne in the low 20s in a bunch of mocks and even if they were off on that, you still had guys they supposedly liked ala Edmonds and Derwin James still on the board.  That was a no brainer draft to trade back IMO.

 

But the year before where Jonathan Allen fell to their pick, that was a shocker, take the dude and run up to the podium to hand in the card.

 

it all depends on context.

 

In theory i like the idea of trading down everything being equal.  But at the same time I am well aware that trading down has mostly burned us over the years.  

Again its easy to say "we should have traded back" but you have to find someone willing to move up and get appropriate value. It isn't worth moving down like five spots if all you're getting is like a 6th rounder.

[Chump Bailey]

9 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I've read that Hamilton is a tight end eraser. Given how this team has been absolutely killed by tight ends over the last decade I would love a tight end eraser. To be honest, that's what I hoped Jamin Davis would be or grow into.

 

Catchy friend and I agree. TE's have shredded our defenses for so long I've lost track.

[Skinsinparadise]

The tweet, especially the first part is very consistent with Keim's takes.  EB doesn't report much but he's not bad when he does, he's the dude that broke/leaked the Alex Smith injury stuff for example.  The operative word is "target"

 

I don't think these guys are really reporting, they just know people who work over there whom they trust.  Keim actually becomes more eerie level accurate as the draft and FA approaches typically though no one is 100% accurate all the time.

 

The way i take that tweet and marrying it with Keim's take:

 

A.  Ideally they'd like to trade back

 

B.  If they can't Hamilton is likely who they take at 11, just a hair over Drake London, though Keim also suggested they are back and forth on that in the building.

 

C.  For them to specifically "target" a WR it would mean they are thinking at 11 no matter what they are taking a WR.  Keim says that's not so.  So EB isn't actually breaking anything new.

 

D.  Keim seems to suggest plan A is: Hamilton or London or trade back and trade back might have the edge of those three options.  Darkhorse possibility taking an O lineman that falls.

 

Nothing EB said contradicts that.

 

As far as reports I don't believe.  I don't believe the McShay one about Jameson Williams.  That feels like a plant.  Having said that on the off chance its actually true, Keim likely will have a beat on that soon enough. 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

I think Defense is a mistake round 1. Drafting another positionless player at 11 with questions about his coverage ability and speed in todays NFL is a colossal mistake. Even if Kyle ends up being a better Landon Collins the value still isnt there and isnt providing enough in the passing game which is that matters.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Again its easy to say "we should have traded back" but you have to find someone willing to move up and get appropriate value. It isn't worth moving down like five spots if all you're getting is like a 6th rounder.

 

If I didn't say in that post "if they had the opportunity" you'd have a point. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RWJ]

27 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Again its easy to say "we should have traded back" but you have to find someone willing to move up and get appropriate value. It isn't worth moving down like five spots if all you're getting is like a 6th rounder.

Moving down to #14 and still if they wanted Olave slight, slight possibility London is still there, we could get a 3rd from the Ravens.  I like that kind of trade.  

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Moving down to #14 and still if they wanted Olave slight, slight possibility London is still there, we could get a 3rd from the Ravens.  I like that kind of trade.  

 

Okay, so... You like it. It's one of the rare trade back scenarios where I would like it... Kind of... but not really...

 

But... Do the Ravens like it? A 3rd to move up 3 spots? 

 

Look how our fanbase is losing its mind over trading a third rounder.

[Forever A Redskin]

18 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I think Defense is a mistake round 1. Drafting another positionless player at 11 with questions about his coverage ability and speed in todays NFL is a colossal mistake. Even if Kyle ends up being a better Landon Collins the value still isnt there and isnt providing enough in the passing game which is that matters.

 

Agreed. Let someone else fall in love with Hamilton. I'd especially be pissed if he looks lost right away like Simmons (similar player profiles) and Landon would have been better out of the gate.

 

If we can get a sub-par (athletically) safety like Landon to perform well at Buffalo Nickel, then we don't need to draft one 1st round to fill that position. Just my opinion. Value isn't there for me.

 

A cheap Landon Collins replacement could be a guy like Smoke Monday. Very similar athletically. And no it's not based just off of his cool name, he's a good player with good tape.

 

 

11th overall should be for WRs with WR1 upside, OTs, Edge, Lock down CBs and maybe DT. Potential Superstars. Not Olave or Hamilton. You can maybe talk me into Drake being worth 11... But there is a lot that scares me about him. History has not been kind to WRs like Drake panning out. He's got way more boom/bust than I feel comfortable with.

 

We are ripe for a trade back. Otherwise we are likely reaching on a player.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

---

 

Make-up Concerns Hurting Pickens

Updated April 21, 2022
By Charlie Campbell. Follow Charlie on Twitter @draftcampbell.

Last week, WalterFootball.com was first to report that multiple domestic violence issues were causing some teams to drop Georgia defensive tackle Devonte Wyatt off their draft board. Wyatt isn't the only Bulldog who is being hurt by character and make-up concerns. Multiple team sources say that make-up concerns are weighing down the draft stock of Georgia wide receiver George Pickens. While teams like Pickens' tape and skill set, they feel he is going to slide at least into the second day of the 2022 NFL Draft because of character concerns.

"The Pickens' interview was horrible," said a NFC director of player personnel. "He's barely alive on our board and still could get dropped off."

A few other team sources said the character evaluation for Pickens was "terrible." While Pickens produced some good tape in 2020 and has a legit combination of size and speed, he tore his ACL in the spring of 2021. That caused him to miss the vast majority of the 2021 season except for a few games to close out the season.

"He could go lower, but the third round is probably the most viable for Pickens," said an AFC director of college scouting.

Given the medical red flags to go with the major character concerns, Pickens could be in store for a draft-day slide.

 

https://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Make-up-Concerns-Hurting-Pickens

[KDawg]

 

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

---

 

Make-up Concerns Hurting Pickens

Updated April 21, 2022
By Charlie Campbell. Follow Charlie on Twitter @draftcampbell.

Last week, WalterFootball.com was first to report that multiple domestic violence issues were causing some teams to drop Georgia defensive tackle Devonte Wyatt off their draft board. Wyatt isn't the only Bulldog who is being hurt by character and make-up concerns. Multiple team sources say that make-up concerns are weighing down the draft stock of Georgia wide receiver George Pickens. While teams like Pickens' tape and skill set, they feel he is going to slide at least into the second day of the 2022 NFL Draft because of character concerns.

"The Pickens' interview was horrible," said a NFC director of player personnel. "He's barely alive on our board and still could get dropped off."

A few other team sources said the character evaluation for Pickens was "terrible." While Pickens produced some good tape in 2020 and has a legit combination of size and speed, he tore his ACL in the spring of 2021. That caused him to miss the vast majority of the 2021 season except for a few games to close out the season.

"He could go lower, but the third round is probably the most viable for Pickens," said an AFC director of college scouting.

Given the medical red flags to go with the major character concerns, Pickens could be in store for a draft-day slide.

 

https://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Make-up-Concerns-Hurting-Pickens

 

Edit 1: Wyatt dropping on my board. Domestic violence? Yikes.

[Forever A Redskin]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Okay, so... You like it. It's one of the rare trade back scenarios where I would like it... Kind of... but not really...

 

But... Do the Ravens like it? A 3rd to move up 3 spots? 

 

Look how our fanbase is losing its mind over trading a third rounder.

 

Trades happen every year. This year is a good one to trade back. By all accounts multiple anonymous GMs have said this isn't a very top heavy draft with elite superstars, but also a very very deep draft with solid players due to all the super seniors and covid.

 

Who are you so convinced will be a superstar at 11?

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Edit 1: Wyatt dropping on my board. Domestic violence? Yikes.

Ruh-Roh. Consider me off the Pickens hype train. I thought it was just knucklehead on-field behavior. I could potentially still be interested if he falls to a crazy late pick where he's worth the gamble at that point. But he likely won't be a Redskin now.

[mistertim]

For the Ravens to move up 3 spots and give up a 3rd to do so they'd need to really love a guy who's there at 11 and be absolutely convinced that either Minny or Houston will take him. Otherwise, why not just wait?

 

They'd also need to only have one guy at 11 that they really like. If they have 2 or more guys with the same grade and they're there at 11, there's no reason for them to move up because there's a great chance one of them will be there when they pick and they won't have to give up extra draft capital.

[mhd24]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Okay, so... You like it. It's one of the rare trade back scenarios where I would like it... Kind of... but not really...

 

But... Do the Ravens like it? A 3rd to move up 3 spots? 

 

Look how our fanbase is losing its mind over trading a third rounder.

 

I'd want their comp pick (#100)+5th rounder.  With 5 fourth rounders, Baltimore has ammo to afford to give up that to ensure they get their man (say Stingley)

[Chump Bailey]

That's too bad because from a purely talent standpoint, Wyatt and Pickens are worthy of first round conversation - IMO.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

Trades happen every year. This year is a good one to trade back. By all accounts multiple anonymous GMs have said this isn't a very top heavy draft with elite superstars, but also a very very deep draft with solid players due to all the super seniors and covid.

 

Who are you so convinced will be a superstar at 11?

Listen man, you aren't going to convince me this is a good one to trade back.

 

I think the draft is mediocre all in all and we aren't likely to get the guys people think we will. You've tried this about a thousand times. And I keep telling you I don't think as highly of this draft as you do. I don't. I won't change that perspective. I've spent a lot of time watching film. Are there guys I like? Sure. But trading back doesn't guarantee we get them or that they are even the target. We traded UP for CHEESEMAN last year. Sorry. You just won't convince me. 

 

The only way I want to trade back is if we can guarantee we still wind up with Lloyd (nope), Hamilton (nope), or my preferences Wilson (probably not), London (probably not).

 

I'd... reluctantly accept Olave.

 

You don't need to explain to me that trades happen every year. 25 trades, don't though, like many around here like to do in their mock draft scenarios. And us dropping to the 30s isn't in the least bit enticing to me.

 

I think the players who we should target are in the upper half of the draft. So any trade that keeps us there is semi palatable.

 

Issue is I'm not sure why anyone would make that trade if this is such a great draft to trade back and there is no talent worth trading up for as you surmise.

 

Beyond that facetious point, unlike you (and we are all entitled to this) I think someone with superstar potential is 100% going to be on the board at 11. In fact, it's not even a question in my eyes.

 

Now on to addressing my original point that you pretty much ignored to try to convince me this is a good draft again:

 

Why would Baltimore want to move up 3 places? Stingley instead of McCreary? Essentially a wash. But okay, they value Stingley over him. Great! Now they have to trade a third rounder. Which has our fanbase twisted in a knot that we don't have. 

 

I love the idea of trading back. It sounds great on paper. It doesn't usually work out the way it sounds like it will. I've seen it many, many times. Apply that idea now to the Ravens moving up three places.

 

Could it happen? Sure. And it's one of the few scenarios I could stomach (but again, I think we'd lose a true superstar but someone may be there still) a trade back. But you'll never convince me trading into the deep 20s or 30s is a good move.