2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[wilco_holland]

But getting Corral is not a easy one for the Vikings. Would you take such a high risk? Of going all in on this combo? Guess you could trade Kirk (but that contract might be an issue)

[Sknsnation]

Granted This Was A Down Year For Howell, And Playing  With A  Bad D Did Not Help. I Love His Release, Deep Ball And  When He Is Called On To Run, He Is Capable.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

 

[Mooka]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

What makes people believe Pickett is a better prospect than Howell?

 

I don't think that's the consensus yet. Howell just declared. On paper, Howell had a down year though. 

 

I can see some clear mechanical issues with Howell. He pats the ball before he throws it every time. He'll need to clean that up in the pros. 

 

Pickett doesn't have a traditional release either; he kinda flings the ball, but not sure if that's correctable. Think its just his style. 

[KDawg]

21 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

I don't think that's the consensus yet. Howell just declared. On paper, Howell had a down year though. 

 

 

He did?

 

 

Did Corral have a down year as well? Because I don't think so:

 

 

How about Willis?

 

 

Though I have issues with Willis as a prospect. His strength is running and Howell was step for step with him statistically. Howell isn't the same athlete.

 

The only one who outperformed Howell ON PAPER as you said was Pickett. 

 

 

 

Quote

I can see some clear mechanical issues with Howell. 

 

Clear mechanical issues? This seems hyperbolic.

 

Quote

He pats the ball before he throws it every time. He'll need to clean that up in the pros. 

 

He does. I also urge you to go back and watch Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes, who often pat the ball. I just watched two separate highlight videos where they do it. It's not every time, of course. But this is overblown and rarely do you see a prospect NOT succeed because they pat the ball. They usually don't succeed because they aren't good enough. 

 

You're right he'll want to/need to clean it up a bit. It's a bad habit.

 

Quote

Pickett doesn't have a traditional release either; he kinda flings the ball, but not sure if that's correctable. Think its just his style. 

 

Likely due to the REALLY small hands (for NFL QB prospects). This is often an overused and way over quantified area for knocking a QB. But Pickett's hands reportedly are extremely small. We'll see.

Edited January 13, 2022 by KDawg

[Mooka]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He does. I also urge you to go back and watch Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes, who often pat the ball. I just watched two separate highlight videos where they do it. It's not every time, of course. But this is overblown and rarely do you see a prospect NOT succeed because they pat the ball. They usually don't succeed because they aren't good enough. 

 

Let's not pretend Sam Howell is on these guys level as a prospect. Rodgers is from a different era but Mahomes had like 5000yd 50TD seasons in college.

 

I wasn't really looking at the rushing stats as much because I don't see him as that type of QB in the NFL but he is in same status as Willis as a rusher. Both QBs also lead the NCAA in sacks taken. (its not solely an offensive line thing as much as the offenses they run) 

 

If Howell were a bit bigger he'd be consensus top 2-3 easy. At his size, he'll be lumped with everyone else in the top 5. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Mooka said:

 

Let's not pretend Sam Howell is on these guys level as a prospect. Rodgers is from a different era but Mahomes had like 5000yd 50TD seasons in college.

 

 

Comparison within a set of mechanics doesn't mean that I am saying Howell is either of those guys.

 

Your point: He pats the ball.

 

Mine: So do these guys and that didn't stop them

 

You: He's not them.

 

That was never the debate or conversation.

 

Mahomes had a 5000 yard season in an air raid offense, by the way (For clarification, I'm still not saying Howell is Mahomes).

 

Quote

I wasn't really looking at the rushing stats as much because I don't see him as that type of QB in the NFL but he is in same status as Willis as a rusher. Both QBs also lead the NCAA in sacks taken. (its not solely an offensive line thing as much as the offenses they run) 

 

My answer here could be bias, but I assure you I'm trying to remove it. Willis' sacks are because his line is poor but also because part of his game is running around to buy time for guys to get open.

 

Howell's biggest issue with sacks taken is protection. Though there are times he hold the ball too long for sure. But he has a good completion % under duress which tells me he's comfortable in the pocket while it collapses

 

Quote

If Howell were a bit bigger he'd be consensus top 2-3 easy. At his size, he'll be lumped with everyone else in the top 5. 

 

The whole class is just about the same size. 

 

 

[skinny21]

@KDawg  I don’t have an opinion in this debate, but it looks like his rating was down, td% worse, int % worse, passing yardage worse and Y/A down.  If your point is that his rushing made up for (maybe even more than made up for) his passing stats getting worse though, I can see the point.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

@KDawg  I don’t have an opinion in this debate, but it looks like his rating was down, td% worse, int % worse, passing yardage worse and Y/A down.  If your point is that his rushing made up for (maybe even more than made up for) his passing stats getting worse though, I can see the point.

 

No. My point was it was stated he had a down year on paper. Yet the other QBs sans Pickett had similar seasons. 

 

It can only be a down year when you set the bar high for yourself.

 

And beyond that, those numbers don't indicate a down year. They indicate a lesser than previous year. 

[Mooka]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Comparison within a set of mechanics doesn't mean that I am saying Howell is either of those guys.

 

 

 

I didn't say Howell is some bust or a worse prospect then Pickett either. Just said he has a mechanical issue in the way he throws the ball. 

 

I have a feeling someone will trade up for Willis and we'll be picking between Pickett/Howell/Ridder. (chance Corrall slips in this draft too, he's also a bit small)

 

Are you drafting Howell over Pickett? I personally don't see much that elevates Howell over Pickett besides the hand-thing. Though Howell did play in his bowl-game vs Pickett sitting his out for draft status. 

[The Sisko]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Why isn't he a top 5 pick IMO in spite of all of that?  IMO ALL these QBs have something that makes you pause.  With Corral its adjusting to the pro scheme, his size and IMO I'd like to see less dump offs.  He can go long.  But he was often a short or go long dude in college especially this season, I would have like to see more 2nd level throws. 

As a "Corrallary"🙃 to the size issue, his running style at that size gives me flashbacks to RG Knee. I won't hate it if we end up drafting him, but that, among other things gives me pause.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

I didn't say Howell is some bust or a worse prospect then Pickett either. Just said he has a mechanical issue in the way he throws the ball. 

 

I have a feeling someone will trade up for Willis and we'll be picking between Pickett/Howell/Ridder. (chance Corrall slips in this draft too, he's also a bit small)

 

Are you drafting Howell over Pickett? I personally don't see much that elevates Howell over Pickett besides the hand-thing. Though Howell did play in his bowl-game vs Pickett sitting his out for draft status. 

 

Yes. And I think Howell is a better quarterback.

 

More consistent.

 

Most of Pickett's improved production was due to time in pocket and wide open targets that gained huge chunks of yards. Though he had some solid performances as well.

 

Pickett tries to throw the ball into double coverage very often, and the windows are somewhat closed and in the NFL that ball wouldn't be completed.

 

I think Pickett is a late round 1 talent. Has some tools, has an ability, has experience.

 

I'd take him as our quarterback.

 

Not over Corral or Howell. 

[Commander -JB-]

I don’t trust anybody’s evaluation of Howell ever since a fan on here suggested that if we were going to be named the Red Wolves it would have been perfect to draft Howell because his last name is Howell

 

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Mooka said:

 

I didn't say Howell is some bust or a worse prospect then Pickett either. Just said he has a mechanical issue in the way he throws the ball. 

 

I have a feeling someone will trade up for Willis and we'll be picking between Pickett/Howell/Ridder. (chance Corrall slips in this draft too, he's also a bit small)

 

Are you drafting Howell over Pickett? I personally don't see much that elevates Howell over Pickett besides the hand-thing. Though Howell did play in his bowl-game vs Pickett sitting his out for draft status. 

 

I think it's more likely that Willis will slip than Corral. Corral isn't on the same level as Willis as far as pure athleticism, but he's quite athletic and can run, and is a far more polished passer than Willis. Yeah I think Corral would probably want to add a bit of weight in the NFL, but that's why you have trainers.

 

I'd actually probably take Howell over Picket. I've been trying to watch a bit more of each prospect recently and Pickett's film just doesn't jump out at me all that much. He's certainly a good QB but as @KDawgnoted, he also often gets tons of time to throw and guys also tend to get very open. To me the tiny hands thing isn't the main reason, but it's a kicker, especially if the slightly larger NFL ball gives him some problems. Howell had to deal with way more adversity and I think his overall traits are better, and he's better under pressure.

[Stefanskins]

lets go Heels!! : )

[Ball Security]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Yes. And I think Howell is a better quarterback.

 

More consistent.

 

Most of Pickett's improved production was due to time in pocket and wide open targets that gained huge chunks of yards. Though he had some solid performances as well.

 

Pickett tries to throw the ball into double coverage very often, and the windows are somewhat closed and in the NFL that ball wouldn't be completed.

 

I think Pickett is a late round 1 talent. Has some tools, has an ability, has experience.

 

I'd take him as our quarterback.

 

Not over Corral or Howell. 

How much would you trade to move up to get Howell?  What if it’s known that the Giants are willing to move up to 3 to take him, would you do what it takes to move up to 1 or 2?  Then let’s say there is a sense that Carolina is going to take Corral at six, would you trade what it takes to move to #4 (Assuming Houston doesn’t want to trade back twice) to take him?

[KDawg]

25 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

How much would you trade to move up to get Howell?  What if it’s known that the Giants are willing to move up to 3 to take him, would you do what it takes to move up to 1 or 2?  Then let’s say there is a sense that Carolina is going to take Corral at six, would you trade what it takes to move to #4 (Assuming Houston doesn’t want to trade back twice) to take him?

I like Howell and Corral personally speaking. So I wait until one of the two is off the board if I have to trade up. Or I just leap the Giants.

[Skinsinparadise]

I've been going back and forth as for Strong versus Ridder as to QB 4  I'll plant my flag firmly with Carson Strong versus Ridder depending on the medical reports.  I spent more time watching Strong last night.  And as to pure arm talent and accuracy, he's impressive.    I can't fight that.  It's IMO plain to see. 

 

I don't love his pocket presence.  He's not mobile.  And i don't agree with those mock drafters who say he's sneaky athletic.  I don't see much sneaky athleticism out of him.

 

But I keep watching these QBs obsessively -- out of frustration of our QB predicament and i am pushing myself to get off the fence about players.  I'll get off the fence about Strong.  I like him.  His medicals though to me are key.  If there is major concern, then no thank you.  And that's certainly possible.  He's not my QB #1 but if he falls down the draft and their medicals check out on him, I can dig that choice despite the fact that he doesn't have the mobility I typically desire.

 

Strong's been tough for me, I've watched him on and off from game 1 this college season.  But I've still waffled.  But I really dig his arm talent.  Beautiful deep balls.  Deep outs.  Speed outs.  He puts nice touch on his throws.  All three levels.  He has really good velocity on his throws.  His footwork looks solid and consistent.

 

He doesn't blow me away.  None of these guys blow me away.  But as a pure pitch and catch thrower, Strong is as good as any of these guys IMO.  

Edited January 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Ball Security]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've been going back and forth as for Strong versus Ridder as to QB 4  I'll plant my flag firmly with Carson Strong versus Ridder depending on the medical reports.  I spent more time watching Strong last night.  And as to pure arm talent and accuracy, he's impressive.    I can't fight that.  It's IMO plain to see. 

 

I don't love his pocket presence.  He's not mobile.  And i don't agree with those mock drafters who say he's sneaky athletic.  I don't see much sneaky athleticism out of him.

 

But I keep watching these QBs obsessively -- out of frustration of our QB predicament and i am pushing myself to get off the fence about players.  I'll get off the fence about Strong.  I like him.  His medicals though to me are key.  If there is major concern, then no thank you.  And that's certainly possible.  He's not my QB #1 but if he falls down the draft and their medicals check out on him, I can dig that choice despite the fact that he doesn't have the mobility I typically desire.

 

Strong's been tough for me, I've watched him on and off from game 1 this college season.  But I've still waffled.  But I really dig his arm talent.  Beautiful deep balls.  Deep outs.  Speed outs.  He puts nice touch on his throws.  All three levels.  He has really good velocity on his throws.  His footwork looks solid and consistent.

 

He doesn't blow me away.  None of these guys blow me away.  But as a pure pitch and catch thrower, Strong is as good as any of these guys IMO.  

I’ve only seen some highlights of Strong.  I love his arm.  But I’ve only seen him in shotgun.  You referenced his footwork, have you seen him do 3,5,7 step drops?

 

He kind of reminds me of Leftwich.

[Mooka]

@Monk4thaHALL still posting? 

 

One of the few out there that was really high on Herbert in 2020. 

[Llevron]

7 hours ago, -JB- said:

I don’t trust anybody’s evaluation of Howell ever since a fan on here suggested that if we were going to be named the Red Wolves it would have been perfect to draft Howell because his last name is Howell

What if it’s fate? 

[Ball Security]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I like Howell and Corral personally speaking. So I wait until one of the two is off the board if I have to trade up. Or I just leap the Giants.

The challenge of that approach is that if no QB goes 1-4, the Giants and Panthers are set up to take Corral/Howell at 5/6. If we work up a trade to 4, we may be able to get one of those two, but it will less costly for the Giants and Panthers to move up 2-4 spots.

 

Hopefully these teams are in play for a trade of a veteran.

[clskinsfan]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

He did?

 

 

Did Corral have a down year as well? Because I don't think so:

 

 

How about Willis?

 

 

Though I have issues with Willis as a prospect. His strength is running and Howell was step for step with him statistically. Howell isn't the same athlete.

 

The only one who outperformed Howell ON PAPER as you said was Pickett. 

 

 

 

 

Clear mechanical issues? This seems hyperbolic.

 

 

He does. I also urge you to go back and watch Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes, who often pat the ball. I just watched two separate highlight videos where they do it. It's not every time, of course. But this is overblown and rarely do you see a prospect NOT succeed because they pat the ball. They usually don't succeed because they aren't good enough. 

 

You're right he'll want to/need to clean it up a bit. It's a bad habit.

 

 

Likely due to the REALLY small hands (for NFL QB prospects). This is often an overused and way over quantified area for knocking a QB. But Pickett's hands reportedly are extremely small. We'll see.

His TD to INT ratio is nowhere close to Picketts. Picketts rating is almost 12 points higher. Pickett was 6th in yards and 4th in TD's in College Football. Howell was 33rd and 30th in the same stats. Pickett was 9th in QBR. Howell was 21st. Howells rushing stats are far superior. But I dont know if that translates to the next level. He isnt a big guy by QB standards. Can he withstand being hit by bigger far superior athletes? His mid range accuracy is often poor. Picketts is stellar. Pickett had a 242.2 rating int he Redzone. Howell redzone rating was 168.7. Howells 4th down passer rating was 39.6. Picketts 4th down rating was 233.2. Should I go on?

 

Have to edit this to add their first down passing stats. Pickett 20 TD's and 3 INT's for a 170.7 rating. Howell had 8 TD's and 5 INT's for a 134.4 rating. Howell was actually quite good on 3rd down. 8 TD's 0 Picks for a 188.3 rating. Pickett on 3rd down 11 TD's 0 Picks for a 171.2 rating. 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by clskinsfan

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

His TD to INT ratio is nowhere close to Picketts. Picketts rating is almost 12 points higher. Pickett was 6th in yards and 4th in TD's in College Football. Howell was 33rd and 30th in the same stats. Pickett was 9th in QBR. Howell was 21st. Howells rushing stats are far superior. But I dont know if that translates to the next level. He isnt a big guy by QB standards. Can he withstand being hit by bigger far superior athletes? His mid range accuracy is often poor. Picketts is stellar. Pickett had a 242.2 rating int he Redzone. Howell redzone rating was 168.7. Howells 4th down passer rating was 39.6. Picketts 4th down rating was 233.2. Should I go on?

 

Have to edit this to add their first down passing stats. Pickett 20 TD's and 3 INT's for a 170.7 rating. Howell had 8 TD's and 5 INT's for a 134.4 rating.

Howell is 4:1 on his career. What are you talking about it’s no where near Pickett’s? 
 

And if you want to talk about translating to the next level you better check on Pickett’s hands and tight window throws. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I’ve only seen some highlights of Strong.  I love his arm.  But I’ve only seen him in shotgun.  You referenced his footwork, have you seen him do 3,5,7 step drops?

 

He kind of reminds me of Leftwich.

 

Right now, I'd have it

 

1. Corral

2.  Howell

3. Pickett

4. Willis

5. Strong

6.  Ridder

 

I probably change my mind post Senior Bowl.

 

Yeah he's a shot gun QB.  Oddly a lot of time he just gets the ball and throws without stepping back at all.  But yeah plenty of 3 step, some 5 step, don't recall 7 steps.  He can throw the deep ball without needing that much back to forward momentum and his O line was pretty good.

 

The thing that captures me about him is he's really good at changing the speed on the ball.  He can throw with touch in the flat and hit receivers in stride.  He can gun the ball if needed to in tight windows.  He can fling it a mile and put air on the ball when he throws the deep ball.    His accuracy is good.   All three levels.   But his awareness of what's required out of each throw to make the balls catchable for his receivers is really impressive to me.

 

You also see plenty of Peyton Manning style directing and reshifting the O line at the line of scrimmage.  So he comes off to me as a very aware QB.  Smart guy.   Good student.  Leader.  Played multiple sports in high schools.

 

He has a lot cooking that I like.  Except I wish he was more mobile.  And I need to know more about that high school injury.  

 

 

https://nevadasportsnet.com/news/reporters/center-stage-nevada-freshman-qb-carson-strong-has-been-waiting-for-this-moment

Along the way, Strong’s work ethic stood out, whether it was bugging Matt Mumme, the team’s offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach, to watch film. Or joining the wide receiver meetings after the quarterback meetings wrap up. Or dragging tackling dummies onto the practice field before the sun rises so he can pelt them with passes, which was his routine last season even though he was redshirting.

“There was one day when I came really early in the morning (around 5 a.m.) before practice and he was throwing it into the net and then I had a late class and I got out at 7:30, 7:45, 8 o’clock at night and walked to the locker room to get my stuff and I hear somebody on the field throwing into the net again, and it’s him,” senior captain Kaleb Fossum said. “I told him, ‘You might throw your arm out,’ and he said, ‘No, I got it. I have to get my work in.’ It just shows what kind of guy he is. His work ethic is second-to-none.”

 

...“I just have a drive that I want to be great,” Strong said. “I just want to go out there and win, and I’m going to give everything I have every single day to do that. That’s what ‘Nevada Grit’ is all about, showing up every single day and giving everything you have to your team.”

 

Chris Strong has seen that since his son was a little kid, to beg Carson to let him take a break. Nevada has had some wonderful four-year starters at quarterback over the years, most recently Colin Kaepernick and Cody Fajardo, the only two players in FBS history with at least 9,000 passing yards and 3,000 rushing yards in their careers. Strong could be the next in line to lead the team for four years.

 

“It’s a little unexpected," Chris Strong admitted. "I remember when Coach Mumme and I were in his office with Carson (on his recruiting visit) and he put the quarterbacks' names on the wall and he was honest with us and said, ‘You know what? You’re lucky if you get one year as the guy. Any more than that year is icing on the cake.’ That kind of stuck with me. I remind Carson of that, too. I’ve been to the practices. That quarterback room is talented. There’s constant competition at that level regardless of whether you’re the starter or the third-string guy. The idea is you have to go in there and show some level of humility and work hard and do all of the extra things."

 

That shouldn't be an issue for Strong, who has drawn rave reviews from his coaches and staff, the one point of criticism being he can get too emotional at times. A vocal leader, Strong had high peaks and low valleys when he first stepped on campus. The Wolf Pack wants him to be excitable but a little more flat-lined.

“I love a competitive dude with a chip on your shoulder and screw-you attitude,” Fossum said. “The reason I told him beforehand he needed to work on his emotion is because you can let your emotions get the best of you. I think in the past he would dwell on a bad play. Our big word for him has been ‘body language,’ and he’s completely fixed that. All eyes are on you when you’re the quarterback, so if he throws a bad ball it’s on to the next play. He’s done a better job of that, and I love the fiery attitude. When he throws a touchdown pass and is fired up, you can feel the vibe and it’s contagious.”

Edited January 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Howell is 4:1 on his career. What are you talking about it’s no where near Pickett’s? 

This season. It is nowhere near Picketts. And that is part of the rub on Howell. He was hyped to be this Heismann level QB and he was nowhere close to it.