2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[philibusters]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Iowa is not the number 2 team in the country. If Clifford doesnt get hurt last week they steamroll Iowa. And they are getting worked by Perdue right now. 

 

Definitely agree with you on that one.  They are maybe in the 15-20 range in my opinion.   They have some nice players, but the overall talent level is probably not top 30.  However, they have an identity and execute well and generally outperform their talent level.   Today was a reminder though that if they are not on their game and are a little sloppy they don't have the raw talent to overcome a meh performance.

 

David Bell had a monster game.  Like 11 catches for 240 yards.  Don't know where he ranks amongst receivers in terms of the draft, but at least for today he was unstoppable.

Edited October 17, 2021 by philibusters

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah Ridder didn't really do all that much of note. 140 yards with 1 TD pass in a 56 point game for your offense? That game was all Ford. Almost 200 yards and 4 TDs. Yeow.

 

I really do like Ridder's tools, but as you've noted as well, his accuracy is really spotty and he's hit or miss usually. 

 

Yeah I really want to dig Ridder, I talked him up last year.  I like aspects of his game but I have a hard time falling hard for him.  

 

The dude I've talked up pretty much from the jump this season Matt Corral I am sold on.  I kept saying I liked what I saw but want a longer sample size.  For me, I've seen enough.  I've watched some of tonight's game and at least parts of all his other games.  Tonight he's not helped much by his Wrs, the starting Wrs are hurt.  Still he looks plenty good enough.  Might end up running for over 150 yards tonight if he keeps at this pace. 

 

As I've been saying on the Heinicke thread, he reminds me of Heinicke but the difference is Corral has a real NFL arm.  Corral is probably not on Heinicke's level as far as elusiveness in the pocket but he's a better runner and threat with his legs.  He has good arm strength.  Compact-quick delivery. Throws off platform well.   Good-consistent accuracy.  Good deep ball.  Nice touch on his throws.  Baller who plays with moxie.  Really IMO a well rounded QB.  I wish he had a wider-more bulked up frame though.  He looks like a dude who could get hurt in the NFL.  

 

Malik Willis really intrigues me but I've only watched one game of his so I need to see more.  I recorded Pickett's game today, I'll try to watch it tomorrow. 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I really want to dig Ridder, I talked him up last year.  I like aspects of his game but I have a hard time falling hard for him.  

 

The dude I've talked up pretty much from the jump this season Matt Corral I am sold on.  I kept saying I liked what I saw but want a longer sample size.  For me, I've seen enough.  I've watched some of tonight's game and at least parts of all his other games.  Tonight he's not helped much by his Wrs, the starting Wrs are hurt.  Still he looks plenty good enough.  Might end up running for over 150 yards tonight if he keeps at this pace. 

 

As I've been saying on the Heinicke thread, he reminds me of Heinicke but the difference is Corral has a real NFL arm.  Corral is probably not on Heinicke's level as far as elusiveness in the pocket but he's a better runner and threat with his legs.  He has good arm strength.  Compact-quick delivery. Throws off platform well.   Good-consistent accuracy.  Good deep ball.  Nice touch on his throws.  Baller who plays with moxie.  Really IMO a well rounded QB.  I wish he had a wider-more bulked up frame though.  He looks like a dude who could get hurt in the NFL.  

 

Malik Willis really intrigues me but I've only watched one game of his so I need to see more.  I recorded Pickett's game today, I'll try to watch it tomorrow. 

 

Yeah I dig Corral's game as well. He definitely has a live arm, seems pretty accurate, and plays with lots of swagger. I don't see him as a top of the 1st kind of guy at the moment, so maybe he'd be a dude we could get in the teens. Then again, the QB position has so much value that it can rocket guys up the boards.

 

As far as Willis, I'm very intrigued by his physical traits. Big time arm, extremely elusive runner who can make guys miss all over the place so he's just not a straight line guy. His season started out great but has hit some roadbumps it seems. I didn't watch any of the Liberty vs ULM game tonight, but it looks like he had a rough outing. 1 TD 3 INTs. That's 3 TDs and 6 INTs in his last 2 games. Oof.

 

There really doesn't seem to be any one of the QBs in this crop that's truly separated themselves so far. And no big time dark horse risers like Zach Wilson last year.

Edited October 17, 2021 by mistertim

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

That's why he's such an effective blitzer, he's got that instinctive lean into contact and drive his legs to prevent good contact by a blocker.

 

Dean isn't the athletic freak profile that you drool over.  But he's still a +.  The rest of his game, instinctively, technically, etc is as good as you can get.

 

He's BPA in the mid teens.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I dig Corral's game as well. He definitely has a live arm, seems pretty accurate, and plays with lots of swagger. I don't see him as a top of the 1st kind of guy at the moment, so maybe he'd be a dude we could get in the teens. Then again, the QB position has so much value that it can rocket guys up the boards.

 

I think he's going to go in the top 5 in the draft if he keeps playing like this, maybe top 3.  I know most mocks (though some do) don't have him that high yet but that's typical for mocks this early.  The Qbs rise in the mocks later.

 

He's probably going to rush for over 200 yards today.  Guys with his kind of arm and mobility typically don't fall in the teens.   At least not recently they don't.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

That was gorgeous. Shows real study and preparation. 

[PartyPosse]

Is Rattler the new Fromm?

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Is Rattler the new Fromm?

 

Fromm didn't meet expectations so in that way yes but he also never was considered uber talented. From what I recall the hype on Fromm was he was a smart-accurate QB who could succeed in spite of his physical limitations. Rattler is uber talented, can make off platform throws, can run, has a good arm, some character concerns and seems to make poor decisions and doesn't live to the hype of his talent.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Alexa]

We should just draft quarterbacks in round 1, 2 and 3. 

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Alexa said:

We should just draft quarterbacks in round 1, 2 and 3. 

How about 1,4,5,6,7, lol? Desperately need a FS and another LB both with great instincts!

[Going Commando]

7 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Is Rattler the new Fromm?

 

Fromm was a steady long term starting QB whose ceiling was NFL backup IMO.  Accomplished college player whose best football will be at that level.  Rattler is a volatile RS sophomore who alternates between looking absolutely awful and special, sometimes within the same game.  His arm and creativity are special but he hasn't come close to putting it all together and mastering the game at the college level, even under very favorable circumstances.  But in two years?  He could be a top prospect.  We'll see what happens after he transfers.

 

The draftnik community majorly jumped the gun on him.  He could turn out to be nothing, but a change of scenery and more experience can be good for QB draft stock.  Malik Willis, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, and Joe Burrow weren't on NFL radar before they transferred, at least Rattler already has that in his favor.

2 hours ago, Alexa said:

We should just draft quarterbacks in round 1, 2 and 3. 

 

I know you're joking, but that is definitely not how teams get franchise QBs.  You pick one guy you believe in, make a plan for developing him, and then stick to it Hell or high water.

[KDawg]

I’m not in love with any of the quarterbacks so far to be honest. 
 

Corral is probably my favorite but so far, without watching every play he’s involved in there just seems to be something missing. Maybe it clicks when I have time to sit and really watch him.

[Skinsinparadise]

As for Matt Corral, to my eyes he's good at most trades perhaps but not master of any.  But I like him.

 

His play for my eyes rarely looks out of this world breathtaking type of stuff where you go wow with some exceptions.  He isn't a freak where when he rushes he looks like Justin Fields.  But he's fast and can run.  He can make throws off platform but doesn't strike as good at that as Zach Wilson looked in college.  He's accurate with the short-intermediate stuff but not on the level IMO of Mac Jones.  He throws a good deep ball and has a really good arm but nothing freakish on that count like a Josh Allen or even Zach Wilson did in college.   Some say he has a freakish arm but I disagree but i do think he has a good arm.  He also doesn't look like the prototype wow size for a QB, he's somewhat undersized.

 

I know some here didn't like Zach and some didn't like Mac Jones and they still don't.  But I liked all four of the top QBs in the last draft for different reasons so I am just explaining my mindset on Corral.

 

I don't like Corral as much as I liked Fields.  I liked Lance but also thought he was raw.  I liked Mac and took some push back on the thread about him but I still didn't love him. For me Corral is somewhere in between Fields and Mac Jones as far as how I'd grade him.  I like Fields better.  But I do like Corral better than Mac and I was one of the bigger Mac fans here. 

 

If I had to say what makes Corral unique where he is a master of a trade so to speak is moxie and toughness.  That's why I like to compare him to Heinicke.  The dude has moxie and is tough as nails.  Example last night with the game on the line, the dude was running right up the A gap to get important yards.  His WRs were out and dropping passes and this dude was just laying his body on the line for the team.  He will block.  He will do anything to win.  Impressive. 

 

But like Heinicke, injuries concern me about him considering how he plays and his frame.   Also as I like to say for QBs, I think their personalities, work ethic, leadership skills are essential.  These guys don't all have the same makeup and to me its not a sidebar point but a key plot point.   I am still trying to digest Corral on that front.  Reading about him, the narrative seems to be he's high strung and emotional and that had led to some issues in his younger years but he's learned how to channel them now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then she remembered Matt having “an awakening.”

It was sometime after the 2019 season and before 2020, following the dismissal of Matt Luke and the hiring of Lane Kiffin. She remembers coming to Oxford and seeing a different Matt, one who seemed to understand the gravity of the responsibilities thrust upon his shoulders.

It’s not like he ever ran from being a leader of men, but now he really understood what it meant.

“It was everything. The way he held himself on the field, off the field. He wanted to be that leader, and he had to do what leaders do,” Liz said. “I think he just wanted to bring this team together.”

Corral has admitted as much — that his growth as a team leader has been a conscious effort, even if everything that comes with it hasn’t been easy.

“There’s some things that you don’t want to do and you’re going to have to do them because that’s the role you’re in, that’s the type of person you want to be,” Corral said.

He is at the Manning Center at 5:30 a.m. sharp, Kiffin said. He is leading by example more than ever.

“He’s been more vocal,” junior wide receiver Jonathan Mingo said. “He’s been on us when we’re slacking.”

Corral's character matters most to family, friends

The truth about Corral is that he is intense, and he is emotional. He stands up for what he believes in, even if it’s to his detriment. And those aren’t always popular ways to live your life.

But it’s what makes him stand out in a crowd.

 

https://www.djournal.com/sports/college/ole-miss/matt-corral-ole-miss-quarterback-parents-friends-tell-his-story/article_4b5f6a95-1ca4-53a8-b5e9-09b44ccc25fe.html

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

Ranking this year's class at QB with last year's:

 

1. Trevor Lawrence/Justin Fields (I had them always 1a and 1b)

3. Trey Lance

4. Zach Wilson

5. Mac Jones

6. Matt Corral

 

I think 5/6 may swap for me. And I can see Corral growing on me more than Wilson (I was never as high on Wilson as many, or as low on him as others.)

 

So my prediction is I see Corral at that 4 slot in this class. Willis may slot in ahead of Wilson/Jones, too. But it would be close. No one else in the same hemisphere as of this moment. But things change.

[Koolblue13]

QBs will all climb closer to the draft.

[clskinsfan]

No love for Kenny Pickett in this thread? Dual threat, big arm and has a mediocre Pitt team at 5-1 right now. HE is currently the number 3 rated QB in college football. His draft stock is going to skyrocket if he keeps playing the way he is. 

[Long n Left]

My 2 cents.

 

I like Corral, he’s got a very solid skill set. Does he have the attitude to take it to that next level? Million $ question there, but I like everything I’ve seen and read.

 

I was big on the Pickett bandwagon last year. Thought he could be THE day 3 steal, but he showed some maturity by taking the extra COVID season, saying that he loved working with this coaching staff, and players, and wasn’t sure he was quite ready to make the jump. Shows character to me. Now, this season, he’s lighting it up, and won’t be flying under any radars.

 

The small hands is a drawback, but his toolkit is stuffed with everything else. He put up gaudy numbers against some tomato cans, and a down Tennessee team, so yesterday was going to be a let’s see game, against a stout defense that gave Howell fits. He passed with flying colors. 60+% completion in that howling wind was something, and he had 5 drops that were on the money, by my count. No TO’s and a rushing TD.

 

Guy shows good knowledge, and goes through his reads well. Has a big arm, and very good accuracy, a few times placing balls away from defenders where only his guy could get it. He is elusive, and climbs the pocket well with his eyes always downfield. He’s not a runner, per se, but can tuck it and get yards when it’s there…very athletic.

 

I really like the kid, think he has all the tools, minus the hands. Yesterday was a big hurdle he cleared easily, but we’ll find out a lot more the next two weeks, when he faces a stellar Clemson D, followed by the Crooks, I mean Canes.

 

Ha, was writing this while you posted cl😂

Edited October 17, 2021 by Long n Left

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

No love for Kenny Pickett in this thread? Dual threat, big arm and has a mediocre Pitt team at 5-1 right now. HE is currently the number 3 rated QB in college football. His draft stock is going to skyrocket if he keeps playing the way he is. 

 

I typically don't hype QBs I haven't watched.  I've just seen glimpses.  I did record yesterday's Pitt game so after watching it I'll pipe in with what I think.   From what I've read he's intriguing sans his 8 inch hands. 

 

 

 

On another note, because I follow NY baseball, I catch a lot of their sports coverage of the NY teams.  Man are they hyped about Toney.    Commenting on it here since we spent plenty of time on him.  He, Rondale Moore, and J. Chase seem to be killing it. 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Nerm]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

On another note, because I follow NY baseball, I catch a lot of their sports coverage of the NY teams.  Man are they hyped about Toney.    Commenting on it here since we spent plenty of time on him.  He, Rondale Moore, and J. Chase seem to be killing it. 

 

They seemed to hate the pick up until the past week.  Prior to that he hadn't done much except have sideline blowups and complain on social media about not getting targets/playing time.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Nerm said:

They seemed to hate the pick up until the past week.  Prior to that he hadn't done much except have sideline blowups and complain on social media about not getting targets/playing time.

 

I've followed it the whole way and commented at the time too.  He had a good game the week before that too.  My red flag on him was injuries because of his style of play, that's catching up to him some already. 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

On 10/4/2021 at 4:48 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

I was one of the higher ones here on Mac.  So far he looks to be the most pro ready of the QBs drafted last year.  Though Zach had a bit of a coming out party yesterday.  My point here is I am going to pay extra attention to Nagy next Senior Bowl.   He doesn't tout everyone of his players the same way but I do recall him touting the heck out of Terry.  He was a big Mac Jones guy based on what he saw of the person there, I recall writing about it before the draft.  He was also big on Herbert.  He's not always right but he seems to nail it when it comes to players he finds with high intangibles. 

 

 

 

 

I probably already responded to this two weeks ago when I had time, but man oh man are we clueless as a franchise. Even when we hire the right guy to clean things up we still screw it up because he doesn't get what some of the basics are of team building, like the critical nature of QB, and how nothing else matters, at all, unless it is solved. We ignored QB in '20 (I wanted Tua, clearly Herbert was a thousand times over the right move, didn't see that, find it kind of hilarious that some dolts of espn were still sticking with Young in an article over Herbert in August, should have been fired on the spot), then ignored trade ups for Fields and your guy Mac Jones, and settled for one of the worst positions to invest 1st round draft capital in (LB). Now after four great QB prospect classes in five years (admittedly both '17 and '18 were more spotty given time, than they appeared in the moment), for the 2nd time we'll invest in QB in the wrong year and class? Defense makes sense this year, a much better class to fix Defense and ancillary details, but no, we didn't understand why it's important to evaluate classes in advance so you know when to target QB and why to trade down to collect more draft picks etc. 

 

Could have had Mac Jones, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, yeah even Tua (who knows, maybe we can trade for him, though I probably wouldn't for the same reasons I would've liked Darnold but wouldn't pay that much-w/so much of the cheap contract gone, and the QB looking like a bust, Darnold, and Tua this offseason should've cost Josh Rosen picks but will likely cost far more). It's just so frustrating to see this train wreck coming years in advance, and nobody who actually has power has said vision, they're all clueless, even smart guys like our leader, maybe do to the eighties, or just being defensive players, don't understand how much QB trumps all the details they love so much. Now we're screwed, bad QB class and we force a QB pick just like 2019 all over again? 

 

We'll see. There are a million crap teams as well unlike fall '19, so even sucking, we can't suck for whomever the 1st QB is that goes, there are too many bad teams that are even worse, 13 2 win teams, it looks like 3 of them, maybe 4 are better than that, and due to schedule, or QB injury or whatever, should still right themselves (SF, Seattle, New England, maybe Indy just because of how many games they get vs Jack and Hou) but at best we're looking at a pick in the 6-10 zone in a bad QB draft where you close your eyes and hope for the best. I don't like going for vets, but I could see the reason. This draft class is sketchy as hell and like half of the top 6 guys have that processing mental make up with low grade, and that's the most important requirement beyond having an NFL capable arm. 

 

On 10/6/2021 at 3:18 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

I've also heard Hoffman say who knew some of the WFT scouts, where he learned they weren't into Tua at the time. 

 

 

 

 

 

Another chucklehead fan that doesn't understand it was 2020 and not 1981 with LT available? Taking Chase over Herbert was justifiable at the time, if you thought Herbert was a Jones/Haskins style pushed up talent, but he was considered a top 5-10 guy going into the fall of '19 so he was never really a Haskins/Jones prospect. To still try to justify Chase now, to still think it was the right move? Clinically insane. Glad to hear they knew how good Herbert was, I did not. Just knew he was a top 10 any class prospect. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

 

I probably already responded to this two weeks ago when I had time, but man oh man are we clueless as a franchise. Even when we hire the right guy to clean things up we still screw it up because he doesn't get what some of the basics are of team building, like the critical nature of QB, and how nothing else matters, at all, unless it is solved.

 

QB is code red spot.  Actually I've never felt that as intensely as I do now.  Dan is a train wreck, we all know that.  But for us to overcome him AND try to be a consistent winner in an uncoventional way (without the QB) is a double whammy that I don't think this team will ever accomplish.  This isn't 1995 anymore.  Heck its not even 2015 anymore.  It's a QB league.

 

I know some think build that super roster and an average QB becomes really really good.  I used to entertain the idea a little even though I mostly disagreed.  I don't agree with it even a whit anymore. I think you can have glimpses of good QB play when they are propped by a good supporting cast but it doesn't last see Case Keenum, Scott Mitchell, Matt Cassel and a slew of others.  Heck even the balloon is popping on Sam Darnold.  I don't like Darnold as a player but I do accede he has talent.  He has had two wretched games back to back now.  Will see how the season unfolds for him.  Some love to say Ryan Tannehill.  But he was mostly a good QB in Miami who just couldn't get over the hump and has gotten over the hump now. But he wasn't a bad player at all in Miami.

 

 Yeah Dan can ruin anything.  But if we think about it the only glimpses of success we've had was with the occasional good QB play -- 2015-2016, the first half of 2018 before the injury.  The only time IMO we had great QB play in 2012 was ironically the only magical year under Dan.

 

The rap from most (not all) commentators in the off season as for why Dallas > WFT.  And this is with the expectations that our defense was going to be great and the Dallas defense would be awful yet its simple Dallas has Dak and WFT doesn't.  QB >>>> Defense.   This is 2021.

 

The PFF guys and really every anaylitic types preaches QB over everything and its not even close. 

 

I've been hopped up on the spot but you and some others have been even more hopped up on it.  Count me in the 10 out of 10 hopped up category now.  i do take some solace in some of their alleged targets in the off season, one of whom they tried hard to get, the other two they backed off on because they didn't want to give up the draft capital it required -- makes it look like they had the right targets.  And if Hurney really loved Herbert in Carolina as Keim said he heard that's a good sign too.  This off season they have to swing hard for the fences on it.  And I get the impression they will.  Will see.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[illone]

Corral definitely seems to have a sunday arm. 
 

i wouldnt mind drafting him but the whole thing just gives me anxiety because this team is where careers die. 
 

he will come here and suck. Because wft. 
 

herbert was definitely the pick over chase, but who is to say herbert would be playing like this if he was here?

[Going Commando]

Jordan Davis is kind of frustrating to watch.  There are many snaps per game where he is utterly dominant to the point where he makes his match up look like a little kid.  But there is a worrisome motor issue in his cut ups to my eye.  His ball get off is disappointing because I know he's an explosive athlete, he just doesn't lock in and play every snap with full effort and focus.  His constant length/power advantage would be unblockable if he got off the line better.  And his physicality against doubles is disappointing too because he looks like he uses those plays as a break.

 

I see Davis as having John Henderson or Calais Campbell-like potential given that special combo of brutal power, length, physicality, and quickness at his monster size.  Lining him head up on a center is a win for your pass defense and even NFL guards are going to have some problems single blocking him.  But I could also see his motor holding him back from becoming a great player like Cambpell was.  He needs to lose some weight and improve his focus because he has All Pro potential.  Players with his unicorn combo of traits to where they stand out even from NFL athletes are so rare.