LadySkinsFan Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Let's document his pardons/commutations. Roger Stone: Commutation Mike Flynn: Full Pardon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Yeah, definitely need a new law that prevents pardoning people who commit crimes in your stead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmsy Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 I've heard that in order to accept the pardon, Flynn has to plead guilty. If he pleads guilty, he can't plead the 5th if brought to testify in front of congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, Simmsy said: I've heard that in order to accept the pardon, Flynn has to plead guilty. If he pleads guilty, he can't plead the 5th if brought to testify in front of congress. I don’t think that is true. I’ve watched every season of 24 and I now know the President can just hand out pardons without the guilty plea. That, and I don’t believe Nixon had to plead guilty to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmsy Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I don’t think that is true. I’ve watched every season of 24 and I now know the President can just hand out pardons without the guilty plea. That, and I don’t believe Nixon had to plead guilty to anything. Nixon was pardoned without any charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, Simmsy said: Nixon was pardoned without any charges. Right. So why would Flynn have to plead guilty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 21 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I don’t think that is true. I’ve watched every season of 24 and I now know the President can just hand out pardons without the guilty plea. That, and I don’t believe Nixon had to plead guilty to anything. Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdick_v._United_States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Don’t forget Corn: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 36 minutes ago, PokerPacker said: Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdick_v._United_States Seems to me not to be as relevant to the situation possibly. But I'm no lawyer. Quote After President Gerald Ford left the White House in 1977, intimates said that the President privately justified his pardon of Richard Nixon by carrying in his wallet a portion of the text of the Burdick decision that suggested that a pardon carries an imputation of guilt and that acceptance carries a confession of guilt. Legal scholars have questioned whether that portion of Burdick is meaningful or merely dicta.[2] Ford made reference to the Burdick decision in his post-pardon written statement furnished to the Judiciary Committee of the United States House of Representatives on October 17, 1974.[3] However, the reference related only to the portion of Burdick that supported the proposition that the Constitution does not limit the pardon power to cases of convicted offenders or even indicted offenders.[4] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, visionary said: Kirschner is a clown, Flynn pardon can’t be challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Seems to me not to be as relevant to the situation possibly. But I'm no lawyer. Wasn't trying to be conclusive, but just pointing to a court case that has some sort of precedence related to circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 25 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Kirschner is a clown, Flynn pardon can’t be challenged. Ok.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Trump is going to have to pardon his entire administration from Day 1; if he doesn't want them all in jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 7 hours ago, visionary said: Ok.... I trust Biden not to staff his administration as a clown show like the previous one. Hiring from the Resistance fan fiction club isn’t gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted November 26, 2020 Author Share Posted November 26, 2020 A pardon doesn't make a person innocent. It only pardons that person from punishment. For those pardoned persons not yet charged with a crime, it means it's useless to prosecute them because they can't be punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 I want libel traps galore! The strategy is simple. Subpoena Trump people to testify under oath before Congress. Subpoena the pardoned idiots, too. Ask them a question in which they are likely to lie. They will. They will be smug and obvious about it. Then, before they leave the chamber, charge them, arrest them, and ferry them to jail awaiting trial. Among the things, this country needs to correct is the impression of House impotence. That subpoenas can be ignored. That lying can go unpunished. The arrogance and abuses committed, time and again, by Republicans need to be forcefully stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, Burgold said: I want libel traps galore! The strategy is simple. Subpoena Trump people to testify under oath before Congress. Subpoena the pardoned idiots, too. Ask them a question in which they are likely to lie. They will. They will be smug and obvious about it. Then, before they leave the chamber, charge them, arrest them, and ferry them to jail awaiting trial. Among the things, this country needs to correct is the impression of House impotence. That subpoenas can be ignored. That lying can go unpunished. The arrogance and abuses committed, time and again, by Republicans need to be forcefully stopped. One thing a pardon does is eliminates their use of the Fifth Amendment. Since they can't be charged they have no need to invoke the Fifth. This is useful in gaining information about the crimes of others. And, as you say, if they then perjure themselves they can be charged for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 2 hours ago, visionary said: Trump thinks it happens automatically if he Tweets it. (shhh. Nobody tell him otherwise...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 How on Earth is our president empowered to pardon people who commit crimes in political service to him? This broken ****ing government needs a complete overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 It really does seem to be an obvious failing in the pardon system. "Hey commit a crime for me. Don't worry about the consequences. I can always pardon you." Trump really did reveal how much of government relied on the honor system It really only took two bad apples to destroy checks and balances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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