Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Burgundy Yoda]

Our 2nd and one of our 3rds is my limit for Carr. That won't get him. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This is smoke screen season. There is so much misdirection and non sense put out by teams.

 

I bet it was the Jets who leaked that to at least raise his value slightly from a fifth to like a third. 

If they pick a QB at #2 his value might be a 19th in 2098.

[bakedtater1]

**** me running..vor bringing up the ****riots needing a qb make me think bb could make a run at carr...to carr ne looks more interesting..

[Dark Acre]

I stand corrected on where Watson was drafted; for some reason I thought he was near the bottom via trade up.

 

Something I want to point out with all this trade and salary cap talk.  Let's say we trade pics and players for a top QB.  With all the roster turnover and such, you're not a fan of the team, you're a fan of the franchise (e.g., the business).  If that's the case, why not just root for a franchise that has the players you like with the best chance to win?  There was something special during the Gibbs One years when there were core groups of players who "became" the team, in an identity and fan-relations sense, over a sustained period of time.  Now, it's easier to rotate the team you root for when the players themselves are rotating around so much.

[Jericho]

Ahh...Sam Darnold. Has yet to play like a bona fide NFL starter. Has essentially one year on his contract left Why not trade for him? Well besides the fact he's not good, you basically have two outcomes. One is he continues to suck and you gave up a bunch of assets for a player that walks in a year. Two is he stumbles his way into a mediocre year and you panic and give him a Joe Flacco/Jared Goff contract to wreck the franchise. Pretty much a loss all the way around. Darnold only makes sense if he's essentially free.

[bakedtater1]

For those in the know how....how do we move on from alex smith and save a **** ton of money to be able to get carr and make him up a new contract worth decent money...not a **** ton..but enough 

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Right. Because cost which is what I've been talking about, means nothing. 

 

You can't sacrifice the team to trade for a QB. 

 

Of course I'm sure just having Watson on our roster would make us a playoff team like the Texans this year, right? 

 

If the cost was rational, yes I'd trade for Watson. You are the only one making that bull**** up to prove some stupid ****ing point.

Watson is a good player but the cost to get him; especially for us is too much.  You get him and his cap space; then you will be limited in getting more pieces we need to contend.

 

If you are going to trade picks; then do it for one of the rookie QBs.  It would cost less and you will have that QBs rookie contract.   You sign someone like Fitzpatrick for a year; so that rookie QB can sit and learn and then take over in 22.

[Jericho]

5 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Our 2nd and one of our 3rds is my limit for Carr. That won't get him. 

 

My limit is a single fourth rounder. Don't really understand the allure of Carr. He is an improvement on what's here. Sure. But he's not good enough to really win with. There's  reason the raiders annually try to replace him. But he's not bad enough to really suck with and be in the position to draft a good replacement. Prepared from a bunch of 8-8 seasons (or soon to be 9-8 or 8-9) and maybe that one year when you go 10-6 and lose to someone good in the playoffs. One can just go out and sign Andy Dalton if that's all you want.

5 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

For those in the know how....how do we move on from alex smith and save a **** ton of money to be able to get carr and make him up a new contract worth decent money...not a **** ton..but enough 

 

Simple. You cut Alex Smith. He has no guaranteed money left on his deal. Cutting Smith now saves $14,700,000 on the cap. More if want to designate him a June 1 cut.

 

Now signing Carr to an extension? That's some Vinny Cerrato level moves there.

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If I am offering the moon I am going for the Miami pick, #3

I don’t want #3. I don’t like Fields enough to justify it. I’d trade to #2 and take Zach Wilson. If I’m offering the moon, that’s the goal. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

13 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

I stand corrected on where Watson was drafted; for some reason I thought he was near the bottom via trade up.

It sounds to me like you're getting his draft status mixed up with Lamar Jackson's.

[Burgundy Yoda]

10 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

My limit is a single fourth rounder. Don't really understand the allure of Carr. He is an improvement on what's here. Sure. But he's not good enough to really win with. There's  reason the raiders annually try to replace him. But he's not bad enough to really suck with and be in the position to draft a good replacement. Prepared from a bunch of 8-8 seasons (or soon to be 9-8 or 8-9) and maybe that one year when you go 10-6 and lose to someone good in the playoffs. One can just go out and sign Andy Dalton if that's all you want. 

Your value on Carr is pretty off imo. He lands somewhere between the 15-20 area for starting QBs in the NFL. That is worth much more than a 4th. Kyle Allen went for a 5th ffs. 

 

I do see your point in that he won't make us SB contenders but with him I would say we are competitive enough to win the division and get a chance to compete in the playoffs and that's all you can ask for. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Jericho]

1 minute ago, Anselmheifer said:

I don’t want #3. I don’t like Fields enough to justify it. I’d trade to #2 and take Zach Wilson. If I’m offering the moon, that’s the goal. 

 

Yeah, don't get the point of offering a ton for #3. You don't really know who will be available and there's a decent shot two QBs are already off the board by then. So you want to give up a lot to select someone you don't know and hope you don't end up with an Akili Smith or Sam Darnold or Blaine Gabbert? As much as some posters like to lump the TOP QB draft prospects as "the same", I doubt the scouts in DC rate Fields, Lance, and Wilson the same. They may love one and hate another. Unless you know that one player you love is there, a trade doesn't make sense.

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

Yeah, don't get the point of offering a ton for #3. You don't really know who will be available and there's a decent shot two QBs are already off the board by then. So you want to give up a lot to select someone you don't know and hope you don't end up with an Akili Smith or Sam Darnold or Blaine Gabbert? As much as some posters like to lump the TOP QB draft prospects as "the same", I doubt the scouts in DC rate Fields, Lance, and Wilson the same. They may love one and hate another. Unless you know that one player you love is there, a trade doesn't make sense.

You'd do that kind of deal if you like 2 of Fields, Wilson and Lance enough to do it. If there's only one you value enough to make that move, you'd have to wait until draft day and make sure he's there.

[Jericho]

3 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Your value on Carr is pretty off imo. He lands somewhere between the 15-20 area for starting QBs in the NFL. That is worth much more than a 4th. 

 

I do see your point in that he won't make us SB contenders but with him I would say we are competitive enough to win the division and get a chance to compete in the playoffs and that all you can ask for. 

 

Depends what you mean by value. I agree that he lands somewhere between the 15-20 area for starting QBs in the NFL. The point that I have is why do you (or anyone) want that? It seems like you'd either want a Top 10 QB or be trying to find a Top 10 QB via the draft. There's a reason the Raiders have one winning season in 8 tries with David Carr. There's a reason why the Raiders seems to annually try and find something better. Why give up significant assets for someone you'd look to replace within two years? I'd rather draft a Terry McLaurin or an Antonio Gibson than just get a mediocre QB. Maybe if you had a vet team and just had to win right now and had no better options you might make a Carr trade. But Washington? Hasn't had a winning season since 2016 and hasn't won 10 games since 2012. Washington has time to find something better.

5 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

You'd do that kind of deal if you like 2 of Fields, Wilson and Lance enough to do it. If there's only one you value enough to make that move, you'd have to wait until draft day and make sure he's there.

 

That's technically true, but what are the odds of that? Rating three QB prospects (we know Lawrence will be there too) as top of the draft elite picks? Would make it a very special draft, that or your scouting has done screwed up.

[Burgundy Yoda]

9 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

Depends what you mean by value. I agree that he lands somewhere between the 15-20 area for starting QBs in the NFL. The point that I have is why do you (or anyone) want that? It seems like you'd either want a Top 10 QB or be trying to find a Top 10 QB via the draft. There's a reason the Raiders have one winning season in 8 tries with David Carr. There's a reason why the Raiders seems to annually try and find something better. Why give up significant assets for someone you'd look to replace within two years? I'd rather draft a Terry McLaurin or an Antonio Gibson than just get a mediocre QB. Maybe if you had a vet team and just had to win right now and had no better options you might make a Carr trade. But Washington? Hasn't had a winning season since 2016 and hasn't won 10 games since 2012. Washington has time to find something better.

Value as in what he would go for on a normal market. I think right now, he's worth a 1st throughout the league but I ain't paying that. I would obviously like a top 5 QB but good luck to getting one. Those don't grow on trees and when teams have them, they typically don't trade them.

 

I think at most there are probably 20 true starters in the league and everyone else is hanging on by a thread. Derek Carr is a franchise QB, albeit probably the lowest tier a franchise QB can be. That's fine, with the defense we have, that is absolutely fine. I'd give up a 2nd and 3rd. That will not kill the team. 

 

Have you watched his 2020 play? He really turned the corner and had a good year, throwing some beautiful passes, the guy has a really underrated arm. The only better option available is Deshaun Watson, and I've accepted that he won't happen.  

Edited February 3, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[RWJ]

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1356766243630571522?s=20

[Rufus T Firefly]

12 minutes ago, Jericho said:

That's technically true, but what are the odds of that? Rating three QB prospects (we know Lawrence will be there too) as top of the draft elite picks? Would make it a very special draft, that or your scouting has done screwed up.

It's just my opinion, which isn't worth anything-. But a couple of years ago 4 QBs went high. My favorite of the group was a toss-up between Mayfield and Darnold (I ws likely wrong about Darnold, and certainly about Allen. To me, Fields is about that level of prospect, and he's my 4th this year.

[RichmondRedskin88]

41 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

**** me running..vor bringing up the ****riots needing a qb make me think bb could make a run at carr...to carr ne looks more interesting..

**** dude it’s only Tuesday.  A bit early in the week to be this hammered. 

[Jericho]

2 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I would obviously like a top 5 QB but good luck to getting one. Those don't grow on trees and when teams have them, they typically don't trade them.

 

I think at most there are probably 20 true starters in the league and everyone else is hanging on by a thread. Derek Carr is a franchise QB, albeit probably the lowest tier a franchise QB can be. That's fine, with the defense we have, that is absolutely fine. I'd give up a 2nd and 3rd. That will not kill the team. 

 

Have you watched his 2020 play? He really turned the corner and had a good year, throwing some beautiful passes, the guy has a really underrated arm. The only better option available is Deshaun Watson, and I've accepted that he won't happen.  

 

 I think I'm having Alex Smith flashbacks. Or was it Donovan McNabb flashbacks. Or was it Mark Brunell flashbacks? Looking, I'm poking some fun here. I get Carr is at least several years younger then all these guys. And I've agreed he's a decent player. and he is an upgrade on the current roster. But...he's not for me. And he's not a real solution. He's a tread water, hope to get a few breaks and then lose in the first round of the playoffs type of guy. I'd trade for him if the value is fine, I'm just not giving decent assets to go...nowhere. Maybe he's the second best option this offseason, but then again maybe you don't solve everything every offseason. Maybe the better option is sign Fitzpatrick and try again in 2022?One does not have to force a solution if the solution isn't a good one.

[RWJ]

43 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

**** me running..vor bringing up the ****riots needing a qb make me think bb could make a run at carr...to carr ne looks more interesting..

Dude, Belincheat is much tighter at giving away high picks that I think RR would be.  It's all good.  Relax.  If Chuckie is serious about trading Carr, I think he lands in DC.  Really do!  

[88Comrade2000]

Raiders needs defensive help. Maybe we can trade one of D-lineman and another pick for Carr?

[ILikeBilly]

I am pretty sure Baltimore cut Robert.  We could get him for vet minimum AND I could re-hang the RGIII poster in my kid's room.

[Burgundy Yoda]

47 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

 I think I'm having Alex Smith flashbacks. Or was it Donovan McNabb flashbacks. Or was it Mark Brunell flashbacks? Looking, I'm poking some fun here. I get Carr is at least several years younger then all these guys. And I've agreed he's a decent player. and he is an upgrade on the current roster. But...he's not for me. And he's not a real solution. He's a tread water, hope to get a few breaks and then lose in the first round of the playoffs type of guy. I'd trade for him if the value is fine, I'm just not giving decent assets to go...nowhere. Maybe he's the second best option this offseason, but then again maybe you don't solve everything every offseason. Maybe the better option is sign Fitzpatrick and try again in 2022?One does not have to force a solution if the solution isn't a good one.

You are severely underestimating the massive upgrade from gimpy Alex Smith or Dwayne Haskins to Derek Carr. Its significant.

 

So are you saying we should sign Fitzpatrick because he costs less? Would you rather go 8-8 or 10-6? Fitzpatrick is far worse than Carr, hes just as likely to throw a 4 int game as he is a 4 TD game, that isn't what I would want in a QB. 

 

What's your ideal solution then? I'm curious because you seem pretty adamant that there are better options available to the team. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Est.1974]

Carr could be a very strong possibility. We were reported to be heavily interested in him a couple weeks back prior to, or during, the Stafford bidding. Can’t recall the actual time line.

 

They like Mariota as a fall back option anyway. They are well over the cap and get 20mil back by moving on from Carr. They also would be strong suitors for Watson.

 

We are keen on him. There will be inside influences from JDR I’m sure. Carr’s contract is very reasonable for us to take on, make Smith a post 1 June cut and the cap impact is virtually neutral.

 

Putting a positive spin on it, Smith, Haskins etc had us basically ranked at the bottom of the QB heap, Carr lifts that to say what, 15-20 range. It’s fair to say we jump from the bottom rankings to very much the middle of the pack. That’s quite an improvement on what we have.

 

The price...that sounds ugly. No way it’s two firsts. No idea what I would offer, we seemed fine going #1 and #3 for Stafford. No chance we exceed that. I don’t even like the sounds of that.

 

Trading a player....I hate the notion, however, curve ball, the Raiders were going to draft Sweat and we traded up to beat them. No idea if they still have interest in him. Move Sweat on, bring back Kerrigan in a incentive laden deal? 
 

With Sweat included, we aren’t parting with much draft capital at all. However, that probably doesn’t fit with the Raiders who are maybe accumulate picks to go hard after Watson.

 

If we are genuinely in the bidding for Carr, in contrast to the Stafford race, I think in this example we would be one of the true favourites to get him.

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Carr could be a very strong possibility. We were reported to be heavily interested in him a couple weeks back prior to, or during, the Stafford bidding. Can’t recall the actual time line.

 

They like Mariota as a fall back option anyway. They are well over the cap and get 20mil back by moving on from Carr. They also would be strong suitors for Watson.

 

We are keen on him. There will be inside influences from JDR I’m sure. Carr’s contract is very reasonable for us to take on, make Smith a post 1 June cut and the cap impact is virtually neutral.

 

Putting a positive spin on it, Smith, Haskins etc had us basically ranked at the bottom of the QB heap, Carr lifts that to say what, 15-20 range. It’s fair to say we jump from the bottom rankings to very much the middle of the pack. That’s quite an improvement on what we have.

 

The price...that sounds ugly. No way it’s two firsts. No idea what I would offer, we seemed fine going #1 and #3 for Stafford. No chance we exceed that. I don’t even like the sounds of that.

 

Trading a player....I hate the notion, however, curve ball, the Raiders were going to draft Sweat and we traded up to beat them. No idea if they still have interest in him. Move Sweat on, bring back Kerrigan in a incentive laden deal? 
 

With Sweat included, we aren’t parting with much draft capital at all. However, that probably doesn’t fit with the Raiders who are maybe accumulate picks to go hard after Watson.

 

If we are genuinely in the bidding for Carr, in contrast to the Stafford race, I think in this example we would be one of the true favourites to get him.

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1356766243630571522?s=20