Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

My gut is Allen is the only returning QB...unless they keep Haskins to hold the clip board

 

If they want a game manager with some mobility other than Allen it will be Jacoby Brissett 

Brissett>Allen

 

I would really like Ridder in the 2nd or 3rd round allowing the 1st rounder to be used to fill other large needs

I wish I saw what you guys see in Ridder. 

[kingdaddy]

14 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

I would rather see Washington gamble on a young guy who has struggled in the NFL so far, instead of Cam Newton.  Newton can't even throw the ball anymore, due to all of his injuries.  

 

Maybe someone like Josh Rosen, who is only in his 3rd year and can probably be acquired for a bargain basement price from Miami.

I understand what you are saying and maybe they do go for a guy like Darnold or Mariotta, but Rosen? Is he any better than Haskins? With our defense, if we get a vet who has won before we can go very far next year given good health. Think Peyton Manning in Denver with that defense. I'd rather stay with Kyle Allen then roll the dice with Rosen...and I'd much rather have a veteran who's had success in the league then I would Rosen. I'm not advocating for Cam at all but I think RR will sign him very quickly. Just my hunch. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

No I said earlier, add a stud MLB, maybe FS, get a top WR, re-sign our OL, Kyle Allen gets you 8-10 wins without breaking sweat.

 

 

This is what I keep posting. Kyle Allen would surely give them as much, with upside, as any vet who would be available. I keep hearing how Alex at least protects the ball where Kyle is a turnover risk.  Kyle Allen had 1 interception in 4 games, Alex Smith has 6 in 7.  

 

Alex Smith is a great story and I'm thankful he is playing, but let's not pretend he is actually playing well.  

[TheShredder]

I'd say they keep Allen as a backup.

If they go All-in for 2021 with a plan that includes Alex for a final year, then they probably don't reach for a 1st round QB.  They'd go with offense heavy draft at OL, WR, TE picks.

I voted for drafting a 1st round QB as I believe Alex Smith retires.

[FunBunch7]

Realistically, we get in the playoffs... and the game in which we get eliminated from the playoffs it'll be a 23-10-ish loss and we'll be saying that Alex Smith needs to go because he's a statue in the pocket.

[jnhutchi3]

9 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I understand what you are saying and maybe they do go for a guy like Darnold or Mariotta, but Rosen? Is he any better than Haskins? With our defense, if we get a vet who has won before we can go very far next year given good health. Think Peyton Manning in Denver with that defense. I'd rather stay with Kyle Allen then roll the dice with Rosen...and I'd much rather have a veteran who's had success in the league then I would Rosen. I'm not advocating for Cam at all but I think RR will sign him very quickly. Just my hunch. 

 

I'm just saying that if we're trying to find a decent QB for the future, focus on guys you can acquire for a cheap price.  Guys that have something to prove.  Like Rosen or Mariotta. 

 

That way, if they don't pan out, you aren't really losing very much.  Since Haskins is an expensive 1st rounder, I would definitely dump him immediately in the offseason.  I'll be stunned if he is ever a good QB in this league.

 

Personally, I think Washington should have kept Colt McKoy, who has always been solid since he arrived in Washington.  He was every bit as good as Cousins back in 2013 - 2014 in my opinion, if not better.

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by jnhutchi3

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

This is what I keep posting. Kyle Allen would surely give them as much, with upside, as any vet who would be available. I keep hearing how Alex at least protects the ball where Kyle is a turnover risk.  Kyle Allen had 1 interception in 4 games, Alex Smith has 6 in 7.  

 

Alex Smith is a great story and I'm thankful he is playing, but let's not pretend he is actually playing well.  

If Smith doesn’t retire it’s a competition between Allen and Smith. And perhaps a third party.

 

The two biggest questions, in order for me:

 

1) Does Smith retire?

2) How do we handle that second(if he retires) and third spot?

 

One scenario I haven’t suggested that I was thinking over today is that they keep Haskins, Montez on the PS, Allen and a rookie. 
 

I wouldn’t keep Haskins but Rivera seems to be wanting to give him a cat’s life.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

I'm just saying that if we're trying to find a decent QB for the future, focus on guys you can acquire for a cheap price.  Guys that have something to prove.  Like Rosen or Mariotta. 

 

That way, if they don't pan out, you aren't really losing very much.  Since Haskins is an expensive 1st rounder, I would definitely dump him immediately in the offseason.  I'll be stunned if he is ever a good QB in this league.

 

Personally, I think Washington should have kept Colt McKoy, who has always been solid since he arrived in Washington.  He was every bit as good as Cousins back in 2013 - 2014 in my opinion, if not better.

 

We lose our freaking window. We have a heap of guys that we will not be able to keep on the roster in the next 3-5 years. We are absolutely in win now mode.

 

That is why more valuable than $10 mil of cap we may not even use.

[TheShredder]

Just now, FunBunch7 said:

Realistically, we get in the playoffs... and the game in which we get eliminated from the playoffs it'll be a 23-10-ish loss and we'll be saying that Alex Smith needs to go because he's a statue in the pocket.

That's reasonable.  However 2 things, the first is I don't assume Alex or his family will be down with a 16th season.  Second, there's good reasoning to expect Alex would continue to get stronger and regain more mobility by next season.  Big Q's with Alex Smith this off-season.

[jnhutchi3]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We lose our freaking window. We have a heap of guys that we will not be able to keep on the roster in the next 3-5 years. We are absolutely in win now mode.

 

That is why more valuable than $10 mil of cap we may not even use.

 

We can win now with Smith, as long as he stays healthy.  He proved that against Pittsburgh.  I'm saying try to acquire someone like Rosen or Mariotta now and maybe they can take over the reigns in 2 - 3 years when Smith retires.  

 

We don't need a superstar QB.  We need a QB who makes good decisions 95% of the time.  That is Smith.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

We can win now with Smith, as long as he stays healthy.  He proved that against Pittsburgh.  I'm saying try to acquire someone like Rosen or Mariotta now and maybe they can take over the reigns in 2 - 3 years when Smith retires.  

 

We don't need a superstar QB.  We need a QB who makes good decisions 95% of the time.  That is Smith.

Not a popular thought, and not many are saying it because we all love Smith... But I’m not sure Smith beats Allen out in camp. I think Allen is going to be the questioned starter at the start of preseason 2021. 
 

He won’t have a strong hold on the position, that’s for sure. Going to be more than one guy coming for that job in my opinion. 
 

The only way I see that not happening is if we sign Dak. And even then he’d probably be the questioned starter because Dak may be out for the start of the year, depending on his recovery.

[kingdaddy]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If Smith doesn’t retire it’s a competition between Allen and Smith. And perhaps a third party.

 

The two biggest questions, in order for me:

 

1) Does Smith retire?

2) How do we handle that second(if he retires) and third spot?

 

One scenario I haven’t suggested that I was thinking over today is that they keep Haskins, Montez on the PS, Allen and a rookie. 
 

I wouldn’t keep Haskins but Rivera seems to be wanting to give him a cat’s life.

Here's where I'm at; Dwayne is being coached on the field and off the field. The dude threw 50 TD's in a season, his only season as a starting QB in college, at Ohio State. He is as raw and developmental as is gets. We can all talk about how bad he sucks, sulks, doesn't study, etc....but what if the light comes on and he figures out how to be an NFL QB? Long shot from where we sit but this kid is big, has a strong arm and has been successful at a major college program. Urban Meyer got a lot out of Dwayne Haskins. 

Based on what I see, DH won't make it in the NFL...BUT, he has physical skills that others don't. He swears he's been humbled and knows what he needs to do. Let's not write off our 1st round pick altogether just yet. In fact, I think we can win with him this Sunday vs. Seattle and I think he may see the field. Trust in RR and this coaching staff, we may see better days ahead for Haskins. I'm probably way wrong on this but stranger things have happened...Dwayne may figure it out at some point, only his coaches can really tell us how likely that is. 

 

[KDawg]

Just now, kingdaddy said:

Here's where I'm at; Dwayne is being coached on the field and off the field. The dude threw 50 TD's in a season, his only season as a starting QB in college, at Ohio State. He is as raw and developmental as is gets. We can all talk about how bad he sucks, sulks, doesn't study, etc....but what if the light comes on and he figures out how to be an NFL QB? Long shot from where we sit but this kid is big, has a strong arm and has been successful at a major college program. Urban Meyer got a lot out of Dwayne Haskins. 

Based on what I see, DH won't make it in the NFL...BUT, he has physical skills that others don't. He swears he's been humbled and knows what he needs to do. Let's not write off our 1st round pick altogether just yet. In fact, I think we can win with him this Sunday vs. Seattle and I think he may see the field. Trust in RR and this coaching staff, we may see better days ahead for Haskins. I'm probably way wrong on this but stranger things have happened...Dwayne may figure it out at some point, only his coaches can really tell us how likely that is. 

 

I wholeheartedly trust in Rivera. The thing is, while it’s obvious to us, people on the outside, that Haskins ain’t that dude...

 

Rivera is in the building and sees things we don’t. He knows better than us.

 

But if he’s back I’ll still do a pause take...

[jnhutchi3]

14 minutes ago, FunBunch7 said:

Realistically, we get in the playoffs... and the game in which we get eliminated from the playoffs it'll be a 23-10-ish loss and we'll be saying that Alex Smith needs to go because he's a statue in the pocket.

 

I disagree.  I've been quite impressed with Smith's mobility so far.  Assuming he can keep this up for 2 - 3 more years, he should remain the starter.  Washington just pulled off their biggest upset in at least 20 years against Pittsburgh with Smith as QB.  That is not a coincidence.

 

Smith inspires the rest of the team because of his comeback.  He will never quit in a game and neither will his teammates when they are on the field with him.  Smith's mental toughness should not be discounted.  Athletic ability is not the most important quality in a QB.  Smith makes good decisions and doesn't commit many turnovers.  Those are the most important qualities in a QB, which is why Smith's win/loss record is much better than any other Washington QB over the past 10 years.

[wit33]

3 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

I disagree.  I've been quite impressed with Smith's mobility so far.  Assuming he can keep this up for 2 - 3 more years, he should remain the starter.  Washington just pulled off their biggest upset in at least 20 years against Pittsburgh with Smith as QB.  That is not a coincidence.

 

Smith inspires the rest of the team because of his comeback.  He will never quit in a game and neither will his teammates when they are on the field with him.  Smith's mental toughness should not be discounted.  Athletic ability is not the most important quality in a QB.  Smith makes good decisions and doesn't commit many turnovers.  Those are the most important qualities in a QB, which is why Smith's win/loss record is much better than any other Washington QB over the past 10 years.

Smith’s mobility played a significant role in why he was a winning QB and separated himself from the crop of average QBs. 
 

QBs today outside of the dying breed of dinosaurs (Brees and Brady) must be able to extend, create and at minimum make throws outside of the pocket at times. 
 

It’s not to say he can’t do the job, but at what level at cost? He will continue to be safe with the football and manage games which has value in the league, but he did always have mobility as his “ace in the hole”. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by wit33

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

I disagree.  I've been quite impressed with Smith's mobility so far.  Assuming he can keep this up for 2 - 3 more years, he should remain the starter.  Washington just pulled off their biggest upset in at least 20 years against Pittsburgh with Smith as QB.  That is not a coincidence.

 

Smith inspires the rest of the team because of his comeback.  He will never quit in a game and neither will his teammates when they are on the field with him.  Smith's mental toughness should not be discounted.  Athletic ability is not the most important quality in a QB.  Smith makes good decisions and doesn't commit many turnovers.  Those are the most important qualities in a QB, which is why Smith's win/loss record is much better than any other Washington QB over the past 10 years.

Alex's tank is running low after the SF game, I worry about him. He looked terrible before exiting....teams are gonna start really coming after him, making him stand in the pocket and take hits. I wish the coaches would call for more plays where they roll him out and move the pocket because defenses know right where to find Alex and he can't do much to get out of there besides dumping or throwing the ball up for grabs when the pressure comes. We need AG back badly for Alex's sake imo.

[TheShredder]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The only way I see that not happening is if we sign Dak. And even then he’d probably be the questioned starter because Dak may be out for the start of the year, depending on his recovery.

[jnhutchi3]

4 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Here's where I'm at; Dwayne is being coached on the field and off the field. The dude threw 50 TD's in a season, his only season as a starting QB in college, at Ohio State. He is as raw and developmental as is gets. We can all talk about how bad he sucks, sulks, doesn't study, etc....but what if the light comes on and he figures out how to be an NFL QB? Long shot from where we sit but this kid is big, has a strong arm and has been successful at a major college program. Urban Meyer got a lot out of Dwayne Haskins. 

Based on what I see, DH won't make it in the NFL...BUT, he has physical skills that others don't. He swears he's been humbled and knows what he needs to do. Let's not write off our 1st round pick altogether just yet. In fact, I think we can win with him this Sunday vs. Seattle and I think he may see the field. Trust in RR and this coaching staff, we may see better days ahead for Haskins. I'm probably way wrong on this but stranger things have happened...Dwayne may figure it out at some point, only his coaches can really tell us how likely that is. 

 

 

Haskins just has no feel for the game.  I don't see the competitive fire in him.  He lacks the intangible qualities that you need to be a great QB.  He gets rattled too easily, he looks lost most of the time, and his accuracy really sucks.  He almost blew the game against the 49ers with that horrible throw over McLaurin's head that was almost picked off.  I have zero faith that Haskins will ever be a good QB.  

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

No I said earlier, add a stud MLB, maybe FS, get a top WR, re-sign our OL, Kyle Allen gets you 8-10 wins without breaking sweat.

 

 

I think an 8-10 win season would be a waste of this roster.   If this was the 2015-2018 roster i'd feel differently. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, TheShredder said:

I have no idea what you’re saying. Explain.

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I wish I saw what you guys see in Ridder. 

 

😀

 

 

[kingdaddy]

5 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Haskins just has no feel for the game.  I don't see the competitive fire in him.  He lacks the intangible qualities that you need to be a great QB.  He gets rattled too easily, he looks lost most of the time, and his accuracy really sucks.  He almost blew the game against the 49ers with that horrible throw over McLaurin's head that was almost picked off.  I have zero faith that Haskins will ever be a good QB.  

None of us do....but none of us matter, give him a week to prepare and maybe he looks better? 

[TheShredder]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I have no idea what you’re saying. Explain.

I don't believe paying Dak is a winning formula.  I'd say that Dallas will pay him as well.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

laid up on the sofa with COVID, so probably not on my game.

 

 

That's awful.  Feel better.  doing ok thus far with it?

 

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I generally agree about a rookie QB, I think. We will have a rookie QB playing behind Smith/Allen. Trey Lance looks most likely to me. I know you like Mac Jones and he could be a guy at 19 also. I'm just not thrilled with the idea of those guys. They seem like a shot in the dark. I'd rather have a 1st round OT than a shot in the dark. 
 

 

I like Mac Jones but its all relative when it comes to talking about that next tier group.  i would bet against all of them being really good including Jones.  but I have a gambling mentality with QBs so I'd be willing to roll the dice on certain QBs more than others and Jones would be one of those guys.

 

I love both Zach Wilson and Fields.  I am intrigued by but don't love Lance.  The rest of the ones i tout are QBs I'd be willing to roll the dice on.  Maybe types.

 

 

[jnhutchi3]

6 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Alex's tank is running low after the SF game, I worry about him. He looked terrible before exiting....teams are gonna start really coming after him, making him stand in the pocket and take hits. I wish the coaches would call for more plays where they roll him out and move the pocket because defenses know right where to find Alex and he can't do much to get out of there besides dumping or throwing the ball up for grabs when the pressure comes. We need AG back badly for Alex's sake imo.

 

He was playing hurt.  The real Alex Smith was the guy torching Pittsburgh in the second half and the guy torching Detroit in the second half.  He never gives up in a game when the chips are down and that is the type of guy Washington needs at the QB position after 25 years of sucking.