A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

Actually they've done it several times over the past 20 years. Philly has been rebuilt by several coaches and front offices who have each done more than any coach here since Gibbs 1. All they have to do is win a playoff game to add another rebuild with a new coach to the list.

But let's acknowledge that this last time, there wasn't a rebuild.  They won the SB in 2017, went to the playoffs in 2018 (won a game), and again in 2019, and then the entire team was hurt in 2020.  

 

Then in 2021, they went to the playoffs again. They look like they got massively lucky with Hurts, who looks like he might really be the real deal.  Which would make him one of like 4 second round or later QBs who have turned into legitimate starters in the last 20 years: Brees, Cousins and Wilson being the other 3 obvious ones.  Brady was more than 20 years ago.  

 

They have had a solid team for about 8 years.  The rebuild did happen after Kelly.  But since then, they've just kept on rotating pieces, and didn't have to rebuild much at all. 

 

We were 3-13 in 2019 with absolutely rock-bottom everything.  THAT is a rebuild.  How well it's going, well, looked good after week 1 and looked less good after week 2.  

 

What the Eagles have done, which isn't less impressive, it might be more impressive, is basically stay competitive for 20 years with very few dips.  They never had the "bottom out" that we have had multiple times.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

As it pertains to the Rivera era itself, I just don't see how the team will do too much under him. He's nothing special or inspiring. I think he's an honest and good man. But, I think he's a limited coach, who can't compete with smarter guys. This offense will win plenty of games this year and I think the team will have one season before he's fired with double-digit wins (because he tends to get one of those). But I'm guessing it won't be this season...and when they have that season, they'll bow out before the NFC Championship Game like the usually do.  

Rivera needs solid coordinators for the X's and O's.  I personally think he has a really good one in Scott Turner.  

 

Jack ...  I dunno.  I'm leaning to no. 

 

One of Ron's biggest faults is also one of his biggest strengths: he's deathly loyal.  If you go to war with him, he will protect you.  Which is great.  But it also means he's slow to get rid of those that need to be gotten rid of.  

 

What we can hope for is an exciting season, lots of points, and getting the fans back engaged, because "chicks dig the long ball."  

 

If Snyder can just stay out of the goddamn news, we can win 9 or 10 games, and the offense can make SportsCenter a lot, then we have the assets available (plenty of cap room and virtually all our draft picks) to re-build the defense.  But I've said this before: the defense doesn't need to be good or great.  It has to be passable.  The KC defense has been passable.  The offense has been great.  They have been in the AFC Championship game the last 3 years.  I wouldn't commit a bunch of resources on that side of the ball.  We've already committed too many resources on that side of the ball.  I don't want them drafting a CB in the first round.  I want them drafting a guard. or a Center in the back part of the first round.  That would be ideal.  

 

Those are all big if's though.  But that's gotta be the plan.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But let's acknowledge that this last time, there wasn't a rebuild.  They won the SB in 2017, went to the playoffs in 2018 (won a game), and again in 2019, and then the entire team was hurt in 2020.  

 

Then in 2021, they went to the playoffs again. They look like they got massively lucky with Hurts, who looks like he might really be the real deal.  Which would make him one of like 4 second round or later QBs who have turned into legitimate starters in the last 20 years: Brees, Cousins and Wilson being the other 3 obvious ones.  Brady was more than 20 years ago.  

 

They have had a solid team for about 8 years.  The rebuild did happen after Kelly.  But since then, they've just kept on rotating pieces, and didn't have to rebuild much at all. 

 

We were 3-13 in 2019 with absolutely rock-bottom everything.  THAT is a rebuild.  How well it's going, well, looked good after week 1 and looked less good after week 2.  

 

What the Eagles have done, which isn't less impressive, it might be more impressive, is basically stay competitive for 20 years with very few dips.  They never had the "bottom out" that we have had multiple times.  

 

I wouldn't call it too lucky...you're forgetting quite a few, but I get your point. Dak, Jimmy G, Derek Carr, Nick Foles, and Andy Dalton weren't too shabby either. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

24 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I wouldn't call it too lucky...you're forgetting quite a few, but I get your point. Dak, Jimmy G, Derek Carr, Nick Foles, and Andy Dalton weren't too shabby either. 

Eh, I think it’s massively lucky when any QB hits.  And the later you pick them the luckier you are if they turn out to be legitimate starting QBs.  
 

I’d toss Foles off the list.  He has sucked his entire career minutes a 4 game playoff stretch basically.  Definitely give you the others.  I had forgotten Dalton was a second round pick. 

 

Getting a QB to hit always has some component of luck. About 1/3 of first round picks hit, which means 2/3 don’t.  And the percentage just goes down from there.  

[Zim489]

38 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

We were 3-13 in 2019 with absolutely rock-bottom everything.  THAT is a rebuild. 

Except you know the corresponding moves like getting rid of talent that wont be here. Acquire assets. 

 

33 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I want them drafting a guard. or a Center in the back part of the first round.  That would be ideal.  

Tell me you dont understand value with out telling me you dont understand value. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Eh, I think it’s massively lucky when any QB hits.  And the later you pick them the luckier you are if they turn out to be legitimate starting QBs.  
 

I’d toss Foles off the list.  He has sucked his entire career minutes a 4 game playoff stretch basically.  Definitely give you the others.  I had forgotten Dalton was a second round pick. 

 

Getting a QB to hit always has some component of luck. About 1/3 of first round picks hit, which means 2/3 don’t.  And the percentage just goes down from there.  

 

Fair enough, I think I agree that it's ALWAYS good fortune when QBs hit...even first-rounders. 

[SkinsFTW]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But let's acknowledge that this last time, there wasn't a rebuild.  They won the SB in 2017, went to the playoffs in 2018 (won a game), and again in 2019, and then the entire team was hurt in 2020.  

 

There might be 3 starters from that 2017 team still starting, might be. Fletcher Cox might not even be starting for long. I'm pretty sure that is almost a completely rebuilt roster. 

[ananoman]

17 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This is such the repeating of a pretty idiotic party line.  And I say this as somebody who wanted to fire Jay after 2016.

 

Dan fired Mike Shanahan.  Which he probably shouldn't have done, but there were like 9 fans in the entire fan base who wanted to see Mike Shanahan stay after 2013.  Dan made that mess by supporting Griffin over Shanahan, so that's on him 100%.

 

Kyle was not going to work for Dan as a HC right after he fired his dad.  That wasn't going to happen.  Kyle also had to go to Cleveland and then the Falcons as a OC before he got a HC interview.  

 

McVay would have been the guy to elevate, because he was on Jay's staff, and left for a HC job.  But he has openly said he wouldn't have taken the job if they fired Jay.

 

Lafleur was a position coach, and he was not on the Head Coaching short list.  It took him another 8 years, and I think he went to Notre Dame and then became an OC before getting the opportunity.  Same with O'Connell.  

The other thing is it's week 2, and there are 15 weeks left in the season, and unless somebody has a crystal ball or a DeLorean time machine, nobody knows what's going to happen.  

 

We looked putrid for 6 weeks, then came out and beat the Bucs in a massively impressive game, found a way to win 3 more games with the most limited QB in the NFL.  

 

NOBODY saw that coming.  

 

It's week 2.  Nobody knows anything, or will know anything, for at least another 4 weeks.  After 6 games, you can sortof tell (mostly) what teams are.  And then you'll still get the odd "win one they're not supposed to."

 

It's way too early to be talking about firing anybody.  Except Jack.  I'd fire Jack.

 

The point is, Dan has created such a wretched organization that few would even want the job.

 

...and great organizations can see raw talent and cultivate it.  This organization is a lousy one.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

Tell me you dont understand value with out telling me you dont understand value. 

An upright QB is the most valuable thing in the NFL.

 

If there was a guard who was absolutely the best player in college football, pick them.  Play them.  It will make your team so much better.  

 

I would absolutely pick a guard in the back part of the first round.  There was a time you would never pick a DT, then the pass-rushing DTs came into vogue, and now you can.  Guards and Centers are more important than ever because of the emergence of the pass-rushing DTs.  Wait 2-3 years, you're going to see more and more interior linemen picked earlier and earlier.  And THAT is the type of prediction which has a chance of coming true, unlike the lunacy of predicting a QB class when the players are still either in HS or Freshman.  

 

All these idiotic draftniks who know nothing about anything want to show their completely idiotic value charts.  There's only one word for it: dumb. But they want to sound smart.  This is how you get bozos like Thor Nystrom, who has no clue what the hell he's doing, but sounds good doing it.  

 

Btw, I meant to ask you, when Rivera went for 2 after they were down 14, which is 100% the analytics play, did you think that was a great move?  Because that's what all the analytics boobs would have you do 100% of the time.  I figure you'd have been absolutely behind him for that move.  Were you?

 

 

[SkinsFTW]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Btw, I meant to ask you, when Rivera went for 2 after they were down 14, which is 100% the analytics play, did you think that was a great move?  Because that's what all the analytics boobs would have you do 100% of the time.  I figure you'd have been absolutely behind him for that move.  Were you?

 

 

 

I keep seeing this but they never went for 2 down 14. Was I watching a different football game? Did you guys drink a little too much? LOL

 

They went for 2 down 9. 22-13, went for 2. 22-15. 7 point ballgame now.

 

Then they went for 2 down 29-21 when the extra point would have made it a 7 point game.

 

That 2nd one was the laughable one. 

[goskins10]

I have been and really still am a Ron supporter. However, this video makes some good points. I still think the biggest problem is the dan s drama surrounding the team and Ron doing two jobs. 

 

He should pick one and do it, GM or HC. I am in no way ready to move on or give up on Ron. I still think he is good for this franchise, especially right now. But I do agree he seems tired in this press conference and i believe its the weight of the drama caused by dan's BS. 

 

Anbyway, thought it was worth psoting. I owudl ove to hear Ron has done a major shake up like firing JDR or and some other assitants. Not usually a fan of midseason firings but JDR alone has changed my mind. 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

10 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

I have been and really still am a Ron supporter. However, this video makes some good points. I still think the biggest problem is the dan s drama surrounding the team and Ron doing two jobs. 

 

He should pick one and do it, GM or HC. I am in no way ready to move on or give up on Ron. I still think he is good for this franchise, especially right now. But I do agree he seems tired in this press conference and i believe its the weight of the drama caused by dan's BS. 

 

Anbyway, thought it was worth psoting. I owudl ove to hear Ron has done a major shake up like firing JDR or and some other assitants. Not usually a fan of midseason firings but JDR alone has changed my mind. 

 

 

I wouldn't mind moving him into a football ops vp role where he's mentoring the new head coach and we hire Turner as the new coach. I think he's the best guy in the building right now. 

[abdcskins]

Is this Rivera's last year to show results? Or does he have one more year after this? I personally would give him one more year. It's not like there are any better options. I don't know his contract situation off the top of my head.

[SkinsFTW]

26 minutes ago, abdcskins said:

 I personally would give him one more year. It's not like there are any better options. 

There's always a handful of better options. It's just we all know that Doofus Dan will do something even more moronic. He'd probably hire somebody like the next Matt Patricia or Urban Meyer. Even if he chooses the next Belichick there is about .001% chance that he somehow gets everything right to set him up to win. The next Belichick would look like the next Matt Patricia. The little man had probably one of the best coaching staffs in the history of the NFL in 2013 and they went 3-13. Then he promotes Bruce and fires those guys. It's so bad that it's hilarious.

[hail2skins]

2 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

I keep seeing this but they never went for 2 down 14. Was I watching a different football game? Did you guys drink a little too much? LOL

 

They went for 2 down 9. 22-13, went for 2. 22-15. 7 point ballgame now.

 

Then they went for 2 down 29-21 when the extra point would have made it a 7 point game.

 

That 2nd one was the laughable one. 

I think what is meant is that we were down 29-15 and then scored the TD to make it 29-21, at which point Rivera went for 2. Sheehan on Twitter also mentioned the analytics say to go for 2 there. Why, I have absolutely no idea.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

I keep seeing this but they never went for 2 down 14. Was I watching a different football game? Did you guys drink a little too much? LOL

 

They went for 2 down 9. 22-13, went for 2. 22-15. 7 point ballgame now.

 

Then they went for 2 down 29-21 when the extra point would have made it a 7 point game.

 

That 2nd one was the laughable one. 

The analytics say if you’re down 14, the next time you score, you go for 2.

 

They were down 15-29.  14 points.

 

Then they scored a TD.  That’s when the analytics tell you to go for 2.  Because of you make it, you’re down by 6 and the EP after the next TD takes the lead.  If you miss it, you can go for 2 next time.  The odds of making a 2 pointer are 50/50.  So you should make one of them. 
 

In addition, the analytics people say you need 3 scores to win if you kick EPs.  By going for 2, and making it when you score the first of the 2 TDs you need, you then Only need one score to win.  
 

And finally they say the odds of winning are better than going to OT.  (Which is don’t understand except a tie is possible in OT)

 

So, yeah, the second 2 point conversion attempt which failed was absolutely the analytics play.  
 

I don’t subscribe to the theory, fwiw.  I see the logic in it.  But maybe I just can’t quite wrap my head around taking the risk to get ahead at the expense of getting yourself 10 more minutes in OT.  Also, I think the 2-point conversion percentage is screwy, and I don’t actually think it’s 50/50 for all teams.  

1 hour ago, hail2skins said:

I think what is meant is that we were down 29-15 and then scored the TD to make it 29-21, at which point Rivera went for 2. Sheehan on Twitter also mentioned the analytics say to go for 2 there. Why, I have absolutely no idea.

See above.   you’re welcome. 
 

(even if I don’t really agree)

Edited September 21, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

He should pick one and do it, GM or HC.

I think he really is letting Martin Mayhew be the GM.  Sure, Mayhew works for Ron, but the draft videos, it was Mayhew running the room and on the phones.

 

I think it’s somewhat Ron doing too much.

 

I think it’s more they just we’re hedging their bets on Wentz.  They didn’t want to throw a ton of money around this off-season because what if Wentz fails, they will need the money again next off-season.  He wasn’t their first choice.  They can say he’s wanted all they want, and I believe them.  
 

But they made a Godfather offer to the Seahawks for Wilson. Wentz was at best their second choice.  He might have been the 4th. 
 

I think in hindsight they should have just said to hell with it and gone all in.  But I think they just wanted to make sure they had the QB before committing resources elsewhere.

 

Thats a guess.  But it’s a theory which fits the facts.

[goskins10]

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think he really is letting Martin Mayhew be the GM.  Sure, Mayhew works for Ron, but the draft videos, it was Mayhew running the room and on the phones.

 

I think it’s somewhat Ron doing too much.

 

I think it’s more they just we’re hedging their bets on Wentz.  They didn’t want to throw a ton of money around this off-season because what if Wentz fails, they will need the money again next off-season.  He wasn’t their first choice.  They can say he’s wanted all they want, and I believe them.  
 

But they made a Godfather offer to the Seahawks for Wilson. Wentz was at best their second choice.  He might have been the 4th. 
 

I think in hindsight they should have just said to hell with it and gone all in.  But I think they just wanted to make sure they had the QB before committing resources elsewhere.

 

Thats a guess.  But it’s a theory which fits the facts.

 

Based on the bolded he is not letting Mayhew be GM. You can delegate but still the road comes to an end at his desk. That includes dealing with all the drama from dan which is my bigger concern than football decisions. Who knows what football decisions dan's BS is driving, including getting players to come here.

 

I know the popular theory is the team would not spend but that is relative. And hey, money could be the issue. I think it is about 50/50 not wanting to spend all thier money in case they needed a QB again and high quality FAs not really wanting to come here. That of course does not apply to everyone. So yes we got some decent FAs to come here. But that does not mean they didn't try harder than is being reported to sign more even better players but got turned down. 

 

I also think that our biggest issue on D is not getting the most out of the players we have. I am not saying there is world beater talent on the team but it is better than the result on the field. Are they quitting on JDR? Are the concepts not clear? At least based on the Lions, the D concepts are simple and easy to beat. We heard that from Tom Brady and the Bucs several times, both pre and post JDR. Are the players just not motivated (more on them than coaching but coaching has some hand in it). 

 

BTW - Outside Rogers staying home, of the major QBs that were available, Wentz is playting the best, and it's honestly not close. That includes Wilson. Will it stay that way? Time will obviously tell and there is a lot of it left. But so far so good there. Will be interesting to see how aggresive they are next off season if Wentz continues to play well. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by goskins10

[Zim489]

4 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

I wouldn't mind moving him into a football ops vp role where he's mentoring the new head coach and we hire Turner as the new coach. I think he's the best guy in the building right now. 

Rhats just shuffling chairs… the issue starts with the trash FO we have 

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

There's always a handful of better options. It's just we all know that Doofus Dan will do something even more moronic. He'd probably hire somebody like the next Matt Patricia or Urban Meyer. Even if he chooses the next Belichick there is about .001% chance that he somehow gets everything right to set him up to win. The next Belichick would look like the next Matt Patricia. The little man had probably one of the best coaching staffs in the history of the NFL in 2013 and they went 3-13. Then he promotes Bruce and fires those guys. It's so bad that it's hilarious.

We already know Ron’s successor.  
 

After Ron is given boot; Dan will first find his Vinny/Bruce. That could be Martin since he was a former Redskins player.

 

Dan and his new Vinny/ Bruce hire Jim Zorn 2. He’s even worse than Jim Zorn. Dan is happy, as he’s back in saddle with free agency and top draft pick.

 

This is a 2-3 year deal and then on to the next Shanny/Rivera/Big name. Dan will have to spend at least $15 million per year to lure the successor to Jim Zorn 2.

[El Mexican]

19 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

We already know Ron’s successor.  
 

After Ron is given boot; Dan will first find his Vinny/Bruce. That could be Martin since he was a former Redskins player.

 

Dan and his new Vinny/ Bruce hire Jim Zorn 2. He’s even worse than Jim Zorn. Dan is happy, as he’s back in saddle with free agency and top draft pick.

 

This is a 2-3 year deal and then on to the next Shanny/Rivera/Big name. Dan will have to spend at least $15 million per year to lure the successor to Jim Zorn 2.

 

Steve Spurrier Jr. at MSU?

[SkinsFTW]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

  Also, I think the 2-point conversion percentage is screwy, and I don’t actually think it’s 50/50 for all teams.  

See above.   you’re welcome. 
 

(even if I don’t really agree)

 

Maybe it's 50/50 but RR should know the math. They'd already made one. 50/50 says that the next one would be unsuccessful. 

 

I think they should have felt lucky enough to have made the first one and just kicked.

[Skinsinparadise]

Sheehan talked about this on air today.  Couldn't tell if he heard this or was speculating that Dan's liquidity situation isnt as good as it once was.  He talked about that's why it might have taken longer than expected for the Terry deal to happen.  He said he heard this year they've downgraded their typical travel perks and meals for the team and team officials.

 

I recall Rivera talking about how expensive it was to do Richmond camp and had to cut back this year. 

 

I know some here push back on this and maybe they are right.  No way to know.

 

But for me the more smoke comes out the more I believe that Dan's liquidity situation isn't what it once was.  And its intuitve as heck even without these nuggets on and off from reporters.  He's paying off major debt.  And he might have to finance a stadium 100% himself.  

Edited September 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

finance a stadium 100% himself.  

I think this would be the stray that breaks the camels back. The Camel being the league.. The league needs the stadium and if Dan has to finance it himself 100% of the way than its never getting done. He cant afford it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I think this would be the stray that breaks the camels back. The Camel being the league.. The league needs the stadium and if Dan has to finance it himself 100% of the way than its never getting done. He cant afford it. 

 

I hope so.  Unless, he's allowed to take on even more debt or as some speculate he takes on new minority owners.

 

But thus far, Dan's stadium quest has been as grossly incompetent as most of his other moves as an owner and his side businesses in recent years. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise