A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

 

Keim is wrong about a magical QB fix for the Snyder problem. Sure, maybe that works for a year or two, but if you want an annual contender, a team you can enjoy rooting for year after year, you need an organization that does things the right way consistently. We have 22 years of evidence showing that will never happen under Dan Snyder. It won't.

 

 

The "magical" QB makes light of the point so yeah in that context there is no magic that fixes any problem.

 

But to say Keim or Sheehan (who is cynical as heck about Dan) being dead wrong about this team can win with a Qb in spite of Dan  -- you might be right -- you might be wrong.  I agree with them.  I am cynical as heck about Dan to say the least.  But there is no way to know whether they are right or you are right until we actually do it for the first time.  There is no proof one way or another.  Their proof is some of the worst owners in the NFL have won when they had that QB -- but without that nothing else has worked.  Could the same thing work here?  Maybe.  But its easier said than done to find that elusive franchise QB.  

Edited February 5, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

This agreement between Washington and the NFL not to disclose any findings without the agreement of both parties really rubs me wrong. 

You mean the guy who is under investigations having control of the narrative?  Why would you be upset about that?  LOL

[Skinsinparadise]

Not that its a major revelation same old same old.

 

But listening to Cooley on Keim's podcast talk about the rapid decline of the fan base which they both spoke to Bruce about as it was unfolding and Bruce more or less told them they are crazy, everything is great, etc.

 

The team's failure with the fan base is 100% on Dan.  But listening to those Bruce stories, it so paints the story of him being like the conductor orchestrating the music on the Titanic deck while the boat was sinking.

 

As I like to say the Bruce-Dan marriage was the perfect marriage to sink this ship. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[profusion]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The "magical" QB makes light of the point so yeah in that context there is no magic that fixes any problem.

 

But to say Keim or Sheehan (who is cynical as heck about Dan) being dead wrong about this team can win with a Qb in spite of Dan  -- you might be right -- you might be wrong.  I agree with them.  I am cynical as heck about Dan to say the least.  But there is no way to know whether they are right or you are right until we actually do it for the first time.  There is no proof one way or another.  Their proof is some of the worst owners in the NFL have won when they had that QB -- but without that nothing else has worked.  Could the same thing work here?  Maybe.  But its easier said than done to find that elusive franchise QB.  

 

I'm not disagreeing with you here, or really even Keim, I suppose.

 

Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson would turn the Redskins (I will never call them "Commanders") into a 10-win team next year. If they lucked out on a draft pick QB this spring and were able to develop him, the same might happen in 2023 or '24. The problems are that (a) neither event will transpire, and (b) the groundwork for those things to turn into sustained success isn't in place and won't be under Snyder. The "magical" part in my statement is thinking that a top-shelf QB will ever be playing for Dan Snyder. It hasn't happened yet, and I have no reason to think that Ron Rivera's presence alone is enough to make it happen against the weight of everything else.

 

Snyder is the Donald Sterling of the NFL, and a couple random playoff appearances over the years shouldn't fool anyone into thinking the impossible is possible.

Edited February 5, 2022 by profusion

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

I'm not disagreeing with you here, or really even Keim, I suppose.

 

Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson would turn the Redskins (I will never call them "Commanders") into a 10-win team next year. If they lucked out on a draft pick QB this spring and were able to develop him, the same might happen in 2023 or '24. The problems are that (a) neither event will transpire, and (b) the groundwork for those things to turn into sustained success isn't in place and won't be under Snyder. The "magical" part in my statement is thinking that a top-shelf QB will ever be playing for Dan Snyder. It hasn't happened yet, and I have no reason to think that Ron Rivera's presence alone is enough to make it happen against the weight of everything else.

 

Snyder is the Donald Sterling of the NFL, and a couple random playoff appearances over the years shouldn't fool anyone into thinking the impossible is possible.

 

Mike Brown the Cincy owner is known to be a bit of a joke, at least according to his critics -- makng money is important to him not so much winning, he elevates his kids to top positions, they barely even have a scouting department among other things.  They draft Joe Burrow and everything changes.  Keim talked about this in the context of the Colts, Cards among others.

 

Maybe this is the one team where the franchise QB doesn't work.  Who knows.  Hopefully we find out.  If your point is we won't have the competence to find the next Joe Burrow, I disagree.  Judging by Keim, we would have taken Burrow if we had the first round pick that year.

 

Dan is a train wreck, no doubt.  But IMO if they did a story about the decline of the franchise right after Dan there would be a chapter about Qbs.  Look at it this way the few times where we lucked into some good temporary QB play.  2015, 2012, the first half of 2018, etc -- they've won. 

 

None of this is meant as a prop to Dan but to the point that the one shot to maybe overcome him is to find that QB. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[profusion]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Mike Brown the Cincy owner is known to be a bit of a joke, at least according to his critics -- makng money is important to him not so much winning, he elevates his kids to top positions, they barely even have a scouting department anong other things.  They draft Joe Burrow and everything changes.  Keim talked about this in the context of the Colts, Cards among others.

 

 

Mike Brown will mess this up. Book it. The Bengals will be back to a laughingstock in a couple years. I was talking about sustained success, not a one- or two-year flash in the pan. Maybe I'm just aiming higher?

[Dissident2]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, profusion said:

 

Mike Brown will mess this up. Book it. The Bengals will be back to a laughingstock in a couple years. I was talking about sustained success, not a one- or two-year flash in the pan. Maybe I'm just aiming higher?

 

OK but my point wasn't 1-2 years of success.  If that's the barometer, Dan has had some success.  They've had some one off good seasons granted nothing great.  I am indeed talking about sustained success.  If Burrow-Cincy just have 1-2 seasons and then become a laughingstock again, I'll come back on this thread and say you are right they didn't sustain it.

 

Heck Cincy with just decent QB play via Dalton were a perennial playoff team for a spell.   5 playoff seasons in a row.  6 out of 7 seasons.  Heck for this team that would be Shangri La

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, profusion said:

 

So, the question becomes how we get that. That, I don't have the answer to. I suspect it involves credible allegations of racism, which we haven't seen yet.

I said this last year. Racism is most likely the only way he gets thrown out. 
 

Touching a woman on her thigh is lecherous behavior but it’s an eye roll when it comes to the NFL. The NFL doesn’t give a **** about how women are treated, they’ve made that clear over the years. They’re making it clear right now.

If anyone wants to bring up Jerry Richardson, keep in mind he allegedly used a racial slur.  I also don’t believe the league forced him to sell. 
 

Snyder probably survives this unless there’s a credible rape allegation, not just asking for nip slip videos and being a creep. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Spaceman Spiff

[profusion]

12 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I said this last year. Racism is most likely the only way he gets thrown out. 
 

Touching a woman on her thigh is lecherous behavior but it’s an eye roll when it comes to the NFL. The NFL doesn’t give a **** about how women are treated, they’ve made that clear over the years. They’re making it clear right now.

 

 

Racism is the third rail of American social life right now in a way that sexism isn't. Companies are falling all over themselves to show that they are "diverse" and to disassociate themselves from speech or behavior that could even be remotely considered racist. In that environment, the league will do whatever it takes to pretend they are "enlightened"--or use it as a tool to settle scores, as they did with Mark Davis and Jon Gruden.

 

It's kind of interesting to me that we haven't heard any real allegations to that effect about Snyder or the Redskins. However, if you listen through to the Congressional roundtable this week, one of the women said that one of her harassers used a Jewish slur aimed at gentile women--she didn't get more specific. In my experience, the good ol' boys who will treat women like garbage also tend to use racial language that is way beyond the pale today. It's part of a larger mindset. Maybe it didn't happen at Redskins Park. Even if it did, it would take someone coming forward to make anything of it.

Edited February 5, 2022 by profusion

[Darrell Green Fan]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Mike Brown the Cincy owner is known to be a bit of a joke, at least according to his critics -- makng money is important to him not so much winning, he elevates his kids to top positions, they barely even have a scouting department among other things.  They draft Joe Burrow and everything changes.  Keim talked about this in the context of the Colts, Cards among others.

 

Maybe this is the one team where the franchise QB doesn't work.  Who knows.  Hopefully we find out.  If your point is we won't have the competence to find the next Joe Burrow, I disagree.  Judging by Keim, we would have taken Burrow if we had the first round pick that year.

 

Dan is a train wreck, no doubt.  But IMO if they did a story about the decline of the franchise right after Dan there would be a chapter about Qbs.  Look at it this way the few times where we lucked into some good temporary QB play.  2015, 2012, the first half of 2018, etc -- they've won. 

 

None of this is meant as a prop to Dan but to the point that the one shot to maybe overcome him is to find that QB. 

 

Funny you posted this as I have been thinking the same thing. Mike Brown IS a terrible owner, like his dad as you said they were only interested in making money and the record was an afterthought.  How guys with egos of billionaires can be OK with people laughing at them always puzzled me.  

 

But as poorly as they have been run for decades one franchise QB changed everything. And that boys and girls is why posters who still claim the way to go is build a roster and then plug in a mediocre QB are simply flat out wrong. 

[profusion]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Heck Cincy with just decent QB play via Dalton were a perennial playoff team for a spell.   5 playoff seasons in a row.  6 out of 7 seasons.  Heck for this team that would be Shangri La

 

 

 

And Carson Palmer before that. Maybe we have to take the Bengals out of the conversation. They're not at the Patriots/Packers/Steelers/Ravens level, but neither are they down there with the Redskins, Jaguars, Jets and Lions as the scunge at the bottom of the NFL trash can over the last 20 years.

 

It makes me sad that the organization I grew up rooting for devolved into that. I don't see a way out as long as Snyder owns the team. He's the problem. Keim is a "glass half full" kind of guy who is going to say that finding the right QB can overcome all that. The weight of Snyder's history says otherwise.

Edited February 5, 2022 by profusion

[woodpecker]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Mike Brown the Cincy owner is known to be a bit of a joke, at least according to his critics -- makng money is important to him not so much winning, he elevates his kids to top positions, they barely even have a scouting department among other things.  They draft Joe Burrow and everything changes.  Keim talked about this in the context of the Colts, Cards among others.

 

Any other examples of this? Because the Cardinals haven’t won anything. Made one SB and lost. Neither have the Bengals. Yes the future looks bright for them, but as it stands they haven’t won anything. Easily could’ve lost any of the playoff games this year and we wouldn’t be talking about them. I’ll give you the Colts, but they only managed to win once with Peyton Manning. And I guess Irsay is a bad owner, but nowhere near as bad as Snyder imo.

[profusion]

27 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

Any other examples of this? Because the Cardinals haven’t won anything. Made one SB and lost. Neither have the Bengals. Yes the future looks bright for them, but as it stands they haven’t won anything. Easily could’ve lost any of the playoff games this year and we wouldn’t be talking about them. I’ll give you the Colts, but they only managed to win once with Peyton Manning. And I guess Irsay is a bad owner, but nowhere near as bad as Snyder imo.

 

Heck, let's talk about the Packers and Steelers. The Packers have had LITERALLY 30 years of uninterrupted HOF quarterback play and only two SB wins to show for it. The Steelers have had nearly 20 straight years of HOF QB play and two SB wins in that time. Both teams managed to surround their HOF QBs with at least decent talent most of those years, though we can quibble about the details here and there. 

 

That doesn't mean those franchises are bad. It means that winning SBs is really hard. Both teams have been perennial contenders and almost always in the discussion.

 

In comparison, let's look at the Lions. They did get their franchise QB, who is playing in the SB this month...for the Rams. I see that as perhaps the closest situation to the Redskins. The Ford family is nowhere near as toxic personally as Dan Snyder, and yet their collective ineptitude stretches back to the 1960s. How can you have Matthew Stafford throwing to Calvin Johnson and get nothing out of it but misery??? That's the company that Snyder keeps.

Edited February 5, 2022 by profusion

[Redskins 2021]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Mike Brown the Cincy owner is known to be a bit of a joke, at least according to his critics -- makng money is important to him not so much winning, he elevates his kids to top positions, they barely even have a scouting department among other things.  They draft Joe Burrow and everything changes.  Keim talked about this in the context of the Colts, Cards among others.

 

Maybe this is the one team where the franchise QB doesn't work.  Who knows.  Hopefully we find out.  If your point is we won't have the competence to find the next Joe Burrow, I disagree.  Judging by Keim, we would have taken Burrow if we had the first round pick that year.

 

Dan is a train wreck, no doubt.  But IMO if they did a story about the decline of the franchise right after Dan there would be a chapter about Qbs.  Look at it this way the few times where we lucked into some good temporary QB play.  2015, 2012, the first half of 2018, etc -- they've won. 

 

None of this is meant as a prop to Dan but to the point that the one shot to maybe overcome him is to find that QB. 

Mike Brown won the QB lottery 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Dealing with both the dysfunction of Dan AND trying to win in the NFL without that QB is an impossible task. 

 

This should be on a plaque outside Snyder's office...

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not that its a major revelation same old same old.

 

But listening to Cooley on Keim's podcast talk about the rapid decline of the fan base which they both spoke to Bruce about as it was unfolding and Bruce more or less told them they are crazy, everything is great, etc.

 

The team's failure with the fan base is 100% on Dan.  But listening to those Bruce stories, it so paints the story of him being like the conductor orchestrating the music on the Titanic deck while the boat was sinking.

 

As I like to say the Bruce-Dan marriage was the perfect marriage to sink this ship. 

Agreed.

 

What is interesting though is we are seeing some of the same delusion out of Wright.  Almost like it’s a requirement of the gig to pretend things aren’t as bad as they really are.  The only exec that’s been honest about where the franchise sits is LaFemina, hence his very short tenure.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Agreed.

 

What is interesting though is we are seeing some of the same delusion out of Wright.  Almost like it’s a requirement of the gig to pretend things aren’t as bad as they really are.  The only exec that’s been honest about where the franchise sits is LaFemina, hence his very short tenure.

 

Keim thinks Wright gets it.  It’s one thing to give a public face of optimism it’s another to say the same things privately.

 

Rivera and Wright multiple times have said they got a long way to go to win over fans. Wright just last week on Sheehans show said among other things that he knows this team has to win games among other things to win over people.

 

I don’t get the impression at all that Wright is delusional 

[TSO]

Can’t hurt to try: 

 

 

[FootballZombie]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim thinks Wright gets it.  It’s one thing to give a public face of optimism it’s another to say the same things privately.

 

Rivera and Wright multiple times have said they got a long way to go to win over fans. Wright just last week on Sheehans show said among other things that he knows this team has to win games among other things to win over people.

 

I don’t get the impression at all that Wright is delusional 

 

Spot on

 

You can't expect the CEO of a company to stand in front of investors and say "This company is circling the drain"

You can't expect the head coach to come out and scream "My team is a raging tire fire!"

You cant expect a team president not to paint his team in the most positive light.

 

Wright should be expected to say his team is in a good place. The measure of his worth is whether or not he continues to take action to improve the situation, or whether he stands pat and does nothing b/c he truly believes we are where we need to be. I don't get the impression we are standing pat.

 

[Zim489]

I hope the “win games” means more than going 9-8 and sneaking into the playoffs every other year 

[bearrock]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Spot on

 

You can't expect the CEO of a company to stand in front of investors and say "This company is circling the drain"

You can't expect the head coach to come out and scream "My team is a raging tire fire!"

You cant expect a team president not to paint his team in the most positive light.

 

Wright should be expected to say his team is in a good place. The measure of his worth is whether or not he continues to take action to improve the situation, or whether he stands pat and does nothing b/c he truly believes we are where we need to be. I don't get the impression we are standing pat.

 

 

There's a middle ground between saying the team's a dumpster fire and living in fantasy land.  When Wright says things like fan experience at FedEx was the best in years, he torches whatever credibility he had.  You can (and should) acknowledge fault in operations without setting off defcon 1 in your PR department.

[dunfer]

he put his hand on a girls thigh and she pushed it off. They hired some prostitutes.,,,kraft will say thats not a big deal (as will most of them im sure) I didnt listen to the roundtable but if that the jist of it theres no way he can be forced to sell. This is the last gasp against him though i think.

Think hes finally wisened up about being himself vs being directly involved with the team 

[dunfer]

16 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

There's a middle ground between saying the team's a dumpster fire and living in fantasy land.  When Wright says things like fan experience at FedEx was the best in years, he torches whatever credibility he had.  You can (and should) acknowledge fault in operations without setting off defcon 1 in your PR department.

Wright gets all his feed back from W chain guy im guessing. that dude that gets to go to everything skins related. whats up with him....a millionare with nothing better to do?

[drowland]

7 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Funny you posted this as I have been thinking the same thing. Mike Brown IS a terrible owner, like his dad as you said they were only interested in making money and the record was an afterthought.  How guys with egos of billionaires can be OK with people laughing at them always puzzled me.  

 

But as poorly as they have been run for decades one franchise QB changed everything. And that boys and girls is why posters who still claim the way to go is build a roster and then plug in a mediocre QB are simply flat out wrong. 

 

You know who Mike Brown's father is, don't you?  The problem with Mike Brown is he's old fashioned and has been slower to adapt.  Maybe that's the curse of being the son of a legendary coach who was widely considered the godfather of modern football.  He still tries to do things his father's way, which is mostly outdated, and yeah he tends to run the Bengals like a family owned hardware store.  But that doesn't mean he's just in it for the money.  He forgets more about football then Dan will ever know.

Edited February 6, 2022 by drowland