A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Conn]

40 minutes ago, brewbrew2323 said:

According to my Giants friends, the Flores to NYG movement is alive and well among the fanbase.

 

I would assume they would have to hire a GM first though, who would hire his guy. I don't think Flores has done enough in the league to warrant giving him power with a hire right?

The Giants are currently interviewing legit GM candidates, one of which will then hire the HC, according to Mara. And the interviews they’re conducting this week have been reported, they’re all GMs 

[drowland]

35 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Team was devoid of offensive talent at that point (no AJ Green for quite a while in 2016), and it was clear that Lewis was soon gonna head for the exit.

 

Actually Zampesie took over for Hue Jackson.  He was fired because the players turned on him.  Even AJ Green went to Lewis and said he sucked.  But I do agree the Bengals offensive talent was declining at that time.  When they let Zietler and Whitworth leave in FA in the same off-season their OL feel apart.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

If Mara does what he said he would today and hires a qualified GM candidate who will then hire his own HC, none of that will matter and they’ll immediately jump back ahead of us in terms of functional organizational structure. 

The last time Mara went out to hire a GM, he ended up with Gettleman. So who knows if he can find a competent GM.  

 

One thing I think which gets missed in the "Organization Structure" discussion is you can have a debacle either way: If you hire a GM, and he stinks, that's bad.  Bruce was essentially the GM (Actually had a higher title of President) and HE is the one who hired Gruden.  Gruden was NOT a Dan hire. At that point, the Grudens were on the Allen Christmas Card list, and that's why Jay got hired.  Bruce was a bad executive, and Jay turned out to be a bad HC.  

 

So, if you hire a bad GM, the chances are they'll hire a bad coach and do a bad job constructing the roster, even though the "structure" is more traditional.

 

And there are plenty of bad GMs out there.  Good scouts who become really bad GMs.  Just like there are plenty of good coordinators out there who become bad HCs.  

 

This is why my preferred structure (which we don't have) is to have a top executive (preferably the owner/CEO, though I wouldn't want that here) who has both the GM and the HC reporting to him.  TECHNICALLY this is what the Chiefs have.  (However, in practice, Andy Reid basically has final say over everything, but they work collaboratively. There's no way their GM is going to make a move Reid does not fully support)

 

That way neither of the top 2 guys is reporting to the other guy.  I don't honestly care which one you get first, as long as they are a team.  

 

I see flaws in BOTH the "GM centric" and the "Coach centric" approaches. I see them as 2 completely distinct jobs, kindof like a COO and CFO in a normal company.  One should not report to the other, both are extremely important, both effect the other, and both should report to a CEO who manages the business.  

 

Now, if you have to go to either one of those structures, which I think you have to HERE (because Dan is a meddling baffoon) I think I actually prefer the coach-centric way.  But I don't really care.  I do think Ron is the right kind of person to manage Dan, though.  I wouldn't want Marty, Martin, or really anybody else directly interacting with Dan.  

 

Dan throws just about everything into a blender.  The most important thing whoever is running the football ops has to do is placate Dan.  Shanahan wanted no part of that.  Jay didn't really even have the opportunity to do it, because Jay worked for Bruce, and Bruce was dealing with Dan.  Now with Ron, I think he has a shot to manage Dan.  The problem is I don't think we have a really good "Head Scout" in the FO who really does the evaluations extremely well.  Maybe that's Eric Gribble for the draft, which everybody seems to like.  But I'm not sure.  

 

[NewCliche21]

36 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

The Giants are currently interviewing legit GM candidates, one of which will then hire the HC, according to Mara. And the interviews they’re conducting this week have been reported, they’re all GMs 

 

They're not all GM's, but they are the coordinator-equivalent when trying to hire a head coach.  VP's of Personnel and such.

[Conn]

1 minute ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

They're not all GM's, but they are the coordinator-equivalent when trying to hire a head coach.  VP's of Personnel and such.

Right, they’re all GM candidates is what I meant, you’re right

All of that is fair @Voice_of_Reason, but unfortunately the Giants are interviewing legit candidates this time around rather than Gettleman types (so far). 

[NewCliche21]

10 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Right, they’re all GM candidates is what I meant, you’re right

All of that is fair @Voice_of_Reason, but unfortunately the Giants are interviewing legit candidates this time around rather than Gettleman types (so far). 

 

Yeah I figured that's what you meant, I just was talking about what you were responding to VOR about.  They're looking at legit guys, which sucks, as opposed to Gettleman II.

[Zim489]

21 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The last time Mara went out to hire a GM, he ended up with Gettleman. So who knows if he can find a competent GM.  

 

One thing I think which gets missed in the "Organization Structure" discussion is you can have a debacle either way: If you hire a GM, and he stinks, that's bad.  Bruce was essentially the GM (Actually had a higher title of President) and HE is the one who hired Gruden.  Gruden was NOT a Dan hire. At that point, the Grudens were on the Allen Christmas Card list, and that's why Jay got hired.  Bruce was a bad executive, and Jay turned out to be a bad HC.  

 

So, if you hire a bad GM, the chances are they'll hire a bad coach and do a bad job constructing the roster, even though the "structure" is more traditional.

 

And there are plenty of bad GMs out there.  Good scouts who become really bad GMs.  Just like there are plenty of good coordinators out there who become bad HCs.  

 

This is why my preferred structure (which we don't have) is to have a top executive (preferably the owner/CEO, though I wouldn't want that here) who has both the GM and the HC reporting to him.  TECHNICALLY this is what the Chiefs have.  (However, in practice, Andy Reid basically has final say over everything, but they work collaboratively. There's no way their GM is going to make a move Reid does not fully support)

 

That way neither of the top 2 guys is reporting to the other guy.  I don't honestly care which one you get first, as long as they are a team.  

 

I see flaws in BOTH the "GM centric" and the "Coach centric" approaches. I see them as 2 completely distinct jobs, kindof like a COO and CFO in a normal company.  One should not report to the other, both are extremely important, both effect the other, and both should report to a CEO who manages the business.  

 

Now, if you have to go to either one of those structures, which I think you have to HERE (because Dan is a meddling baffoon) I think I actually prefer the coach-centric way.  But I don't really care.  I do think Ron is the right kind of person to manage Dan, though.  I wouldn't want Marty, Martin, or really anybody else directly interacting with Dan.  

 

Dan throws just about everything into a blender.  The most important thing whoever is running the football ops has to do is placate Dan.  Shanahan wanted no part of that.  Jay didn't really even have the opportunity to do it, because Jay worked for Bruce, and Bruce was dealing with Dan.  Now with Ron, I think he has a shot to manage Dan.  The problem is I don't think we have a really good "Head Scout" in the FO who really does the evaluations extremely well.  Maybe that's Eric Gribble for the draft, which everybody seems to like.  But I'm not sure.  

 

For me the issue is not necessarily coach centric (its not preferred to me) but the people ron brought in to lead his FO. None of the 3 major names he brought in have anything close to resembling a good record. Nor come from good franchises

 

As for Gribble its marking to say that when discussing player acquisition he always name Marty Martin Eric Chris. Never mentions Gribbles name. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Zim489

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

The Giants are currently interviewing legit GM candidates, one of which will then hire the HC, according to Mara. And the interviews they’re conducting this week have been reported, they’re all GMs 

Some of the better coaching candidates might be gone, if the Giants take to long to hire a gm.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Right, they’re all GM candidates is what I meant, you’re right

All of that is fair @Voice_of_Reason, but unfortunately the Giants are interviewing legit candidates this time around rather than Gettleman types (so far). 

Yeah, we're just going to see how it plays out.

 

Mara might also be stuck on keeping Jones another year which might turn off some legitimate candidates.  

 

Also, if they hire a legitimate candidate, that doesn't mean they are going to actually do well. Even legitimate candidates can flame out spectacularly, and track record of success doesn't ALWAYS repeat itself.   I mean, hell, Bobby Beathard, yes THAT Bobby Bethard, traded up and drafted Ryan Leaf with the Chargers. And that dude is in the HOF with 4 SB titles next to his name as a GM. (2 with the Dolphins, 2 with the 'Skins, he left in 1990 so wasn't here for the last SB.  But I give him more credit for that team construction than Casserly.) And the Leaf trade/pick might be one of the absolute worst draft picks of all time.  

 

I guess my overall point is, a lot of different things can happen, and just following the "structure" of GM hires coach isn't a) the only way to do it, and b) isn't always successful.  It's certainly a legitimate way to structure an organization, but it doesn't guarantee success.  

 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

For me the issue is not necessarily coach centric (its not preferred to me) but the people ron brought in to lead his FO. None of the 3 major names he brought in have anything close to resembling a good record. Nor come from good franchises

 

As for Gribble its marking to say that when discussing player acquisition he always name Marty Martin Eric Chris. Never mentions Gribbles name. 

Actually, Ron did mention him in his interview with JP on the WF Talk Pod from yesterday. But that was the first time in a long time.

 

Last year's off-season was really mixed to begin with, but also suffered from some really bad luck.  Having Samuel get hurt in the off-season, and then Fitz lost for the year in the first half of the first game was really unfortunate.

 

The 2 glaring misses of the off-season were the FA signing of WJIII, who was asked to play out of position, and the drafting of Davis, who is taking a while to develop.

 

However, they did hit on a few other pieces in the draft, with Cosmi and Bates, St. Juice looked ok for a rookie, so that might turn out ok also.  In FA, they got RSJ, traded for Flowers, signed (I can never remember which, Leno or Lucas, whoever played LT), got Carter who was really good on ST. All of those are positive additions.  

 

So there were some hits in the off-season. There is no FO which is going to have 100% hits.  

 

The two things which really put a bad feeling on last off-season was the injuries to Fitz and Samuel, and the lack of development by Davis.  If Davis develops, WJIII is more comfortable in the defense next year, and Samuel is healthy, that would put last off-season in better light.  We'll see. There's nothing that can be done about Fitz.  I personally would really liked to have seen what the offense could have developed into as he got comfortable in it.  I think he's a much better player than TH, and they could have been less dependent on 3-5 yard pickups on every play, and stretched the field more.  

 

 

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Actually, Ron did mention him in his interview with JP on the WF Talk Pod from yesterday. But that was the first time in a long time.

 

Last year's off-season was really mixed to begin with, but also suffered from some really bad luck.  Having Samuel get hurt in the off-season, and then Fitz lost for the year in the first half of the first game was really unfortunate.

 

The 2 glaring misses of the off-season were the FA signing of WJIII, who was asked to play out of position, and the drafting of Davis, who is taking a while to develop.

 

However, they did hit on a few other pieces in the draft, with Cosmi and Bates, St. Juice looked ok for a rookie, so that might turn out ok also.  In FA, they got RSJ, traded for Flowers, signed (I can never remember which, Leno or Lucas, whoever played LT), got Carter who was really good on ST. All of those are positive additions.  

 

So there were some hits in the off-season. There is no FO which is going to have 100% hits.  

 

The two things which really put a bad feeling on last off-season was the injuries to Fitz and Samuel, and the lack of development by Davis.  If Davis develops, WJIII is more comfortable in the defense next year, and Samuel is healthy, that would put last off-season in better light.  We'll see. There's nothing that can be done about Fitz.  I personally would really liked to have seen what the offense could have developed into as he got comfortable in it.  I think he's a much better player than TH, and they could have been less dependent on 3-5 yard pickups on every play, and stretched the field more.  

 

 

Talking the front office hires of Hurney Mayhew and Polian

At least we’re not getting bodied by Wendy’s 

[TK]

7 hours ago, Zim489 said:

At least we’re not getting bodied by Wendy’s 

Give it time. 

 

Like 2.02.22  

[BurgundyBooger]

12 hours ago, -JB- said:

He can demonstrably suck now that is fine.  He still has 2 SB rings tho so he’s on a much higher tier than Snyder.

The main architects of those Super Bowls were the two individuals hired by Wellington. The main architects of the two Super Bowls before those were individuals hired by Wellington. Both Coughlin and Belichick have bestowed solemn praise to Wellington the likes of which they’ve not accorded to anyone else whereas no one worth anything has ever spoken highly of his son, because outside of stepping back and permitting his father’s hires to do their jobs and make him richer, he’s not done anything and I’d hardly call him an improvement over Snyder (as an NFL owner).

[Commander -JB-]

34 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said:

The main architects of those Super Bowls were the two individuals hired by Wellington. The main architects of the two Super Bowls before those were individuals hired by Wellington. Both Coughlin and Belichick have bestowed solemn praise to Wellington the likes of which they’ve not accorded to anyone else whereas no one worth anything has ever spoken highly of his son, because outside of stepping back and permitting his father’s hires to do their jobs and make him richer, he’s not done anything and I’d hardly call him an improvement over Snyder (as an NFL owner).

*ding ding ding* 

 

[Wildbunny]

5 hours ago, TK said:

Give it time. 

 

Like 2.02.22  

That's TK doing his best impersonation of Ron Rivera!

Edited January 13, 2022 by Wildbunny

[TD_washingtonredskins]

12 hours ago, BurgundyBooger said:

The main architects of those Super Bowls were the two individuals hired by Wellington. The main architects of the two Super Bowls before those were individuals hired by Wellington. Both Coughlin and Belichick have bestowed solemn praise to Wellington the likes of which they’ve not accorded to anyone else whereas no one worth anything has ever spoken highly of his son, because outside of stepping back and permitting his father’s hires to do their jobs and make him richer, he’s not done anything and I’d hardly call him an improvement over Snyder (as an NFL owner).

 

What you just wrote is essentially the situation the Redskins would have been in if Jack Kent Cooke left the team to his son(s) when he passed away. And as uninspiring as that may have been, it's head and shoulders better than Dan Snyder. It's not even close. The New York Giants might be a bad team right now, but they are still a classy, well-run organization. 

 

Washington was a much better team than New York in 2021, but New York is a far better organization. Both things are true. 

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

What you just wrote is essentially the situation the Redskins would have been in if Jack Kent Cooke left the team to his son(s) when he passed away. And as uninspiring as that may have been, it's head and shoulders better than Dan Snyder. It's not even close. The New York Giants might be a bad team right now, but they are still a classy, well-run organization. 

 

Washington was a much better team than New York in 2021, but New York is a far better organization. Both things are true. 

Currently we can only hang our hats on is the respect many in the NFL have for Rivera. He needs to a winning 2022 beginning now to hold or heighten that respect.

 

Part of that respect comes from his loyalty. Sadly in instances like JDR, this loyalty is too over the top. If only one of these teams would express interest in hiring him

 

[Conn]

The funny thing is that among all the offseason drama being talked about in here, people hardly ever talk about how Fitz got hurt at a ****ing water park before opening week and then tried to pass it off and just go about his career  It’s such a Washington football thing to happen and the only reason it didn’t become THE story of our season is bc people had this delusional hope in Heinicke and they actually wanted to see him play, so the Fitz injury didn’t have the (in the moment) devastated emotions attached to it that it really should have.

[NewCliche21]

2 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

The funny thing is that among all the offseason drama being talked about in here, people hardly ever talk about how Fitz got hurt at a ****ing water park before opening week and then tried to pass it off and just go about his career  It’s such a Washington football thing to happen and the only reason it didn’t become THE story of our season is bc people had this delusional hope in Heinicke and they actually wanted to see him play, so the Fitz injury didn’t have the (in the moment) devastated emotions attached to it that it really should have.

 

Wait what? I never heard about this!

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Wait what? I never heard about this!

A random fan/radio caller (I forget to which show) reported that they saw Fitz hurt his hip at a water park right before the season. Which would be a questionable source obviously, except that he (also obviously) wasn’t right at all in that game week 1 and then lost the rest of his season/career to a damn hip injury right after. So it seems pretty damn true. But it was hardly explored (or exploited for clicks) bc everyone immediately got caught up in Heinicke Mania and started pretending they never really wanted to see Fitz anyways 

Edited January 13, 2022 by ConnSKINS26

[Captain Wiggles]

 

 

 

[Riggo#44]

 

[Wildbunny]

Ok so now we know it's not the PR dept that handled the Sean Taylor's retiring number ceremony!

[Commander -JB-]

On 1/12/2022 at 10:09 AM, Voice_of_Reason said:

The last time Mara went out to hire a GM, he ended up with Gettleman. So who knows if he can find a competent GM.  

 

One thing I think which gets missed in the "Organization Structure" discussion is you can have a debacle either way: If you hire a GM, and he stinks, that's bad.  Bruce was essentially the GM (Actually had a higher title of President) and HE is the one who hired Gruden.  Gruden was NOT a Dan hire. At that point, the Grudens were on the Allen Christmas Card list, and that's why Jay got hired.  Bruce was a bad executive, and Jay turned out to be a bad HC.  

 

So, if you hire a bad GM, the chances are they'll hire a bad coach and do a bad job constructing the roster, even though the "structure" is more traditional.

 

And there are plenty of bad GMs out there.  Good scouts who become really bad GMs.  Just like there are plenty of good coordinators out there who become bad HCs.  

 

This is why my preferred structure (which we don't have) is to have a top executive (preferably the owner/CEO, though I wouldn't want that here) who has both the GM and the HC reporting to him.  TECHNICALLY this is what the Chiefs have.  (However, in practice, Andy Reid basically has final say over everything, but they work collaboratively. There's no way their GM is going to make a move Reid does not fully support)

 

That way neither of the top 2 guys is reporting to the other guy.  I don't honestly care which one you get first, as long as they are a team.  

 

I see flaws in BOTH the "GM centric" and the "Coach centric" approaches. I see them as 2 completely distinct jobs, kindof like a COO and CFO in a normal company.  One should not report to the other, both are extremely important, both effect the other, and both should report to a CEO who manages the business.  

 

Now, if you have to go to either one of those structures, which I think you have to HERE (because Dan is a meddling baffoon) I think I actually prefer the coach-centric way.  But I don't really care.  I do think Ron is the right kind of person to manage Dan, though.  I wouldn't want Marty, Martin, or really anybody else directly interacting with Dan.  

 

Dan throws just about everything into a blender.  The most important thing whoever is running the football ops has to do is placate Dan.  Shanahan wanted no part of that.  Jay didn't really even have the opportunity to do it, because Jay worked for Bruce, and Bruce was dealing with Dan.  Now with Ron, I think he has a shot to manage Dan.  The problem is I don't think we have a really good "Head Scout" in the FO who really does the evaluations extremely well.  Maybe that's Eric Gribble for the draft, which everybody seems to like.  But I'm not sure.  

 

You think Ron Rivera manages Dan Snyder?? 

[CjSuAvE22]

On 1/12/2022 at 1:17 PM, Rdskns2000 said:

Some of the better coaching candidates might be gone, if the Giants take to long to hire a gm.

They are all in the playoffs the giants have time

 

19 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Currently we can only hang our hats on is the respect many in the NFL have for Rivera. He needs to a winning 2022 beginning now to hold or heighten that respect.

 

Part of that respect comes from his loyalty. Sadly in instances like JDR, this loyalty is too over the top. If only one of these teams would express interest in hiring him

 

Im honestly tired of hearing about how “respected” he is, ill give season two as a wash for him but if we go 2-4 or worse in the division (giants almost beat us in game 1) in 2022  then he will need to go imo.