A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[TD_washingtonredskins]

13 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Funny how the tunes change. Suddenly we're looked at as having a talented young roster around the league. Nobody said this when Gibson wasn't beasting early and we weren't winning. 

Eyes will start getting fixated onto the person who built this young talented roster and we must do whatever it takes to keep him around. This successful Free Agency and multiple successful drafts are more than enough to promote Kyle Smith to GM. 

Isn't that how it always works unless there's a track record? Having success results in a positive opinion of your team. Of course, a very small number of "experts" see a new good team coming, but generally the analysts and pundits react to results. 

11 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

This does amuse me. 

 

People, "genuine integrity" and "National Football League" do not go together. The NFL is a largely barbaric and exploitative enterprise run by a cartel of billionaire owners hiding behind "they know what they signed up for" even though these are largely poor players jacking themselves up with painkillers to go destroy each others' bodies for our entertainment.

 

Dan Snyder maybe be the worst of the bunch, though more likely, he's just the most publicly bad of the bunch. But this is really a rotten enterprise all around.

 

We watch because we enjoy it in spite of everything else. Like how I eat meat even though I know how cruel factory farms are to animals.

 

But please do not moralize about "genuine integrity" in talking about the NFL. People will probably look back on the NFL in the future the way we look back at Roman gladiators. AKA, "I can't believe that **** was legal"

 

 

Within the context of the sport and rules, most teams at least treat their employees well and run a good organization. I would assume that, say, the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders can go on photo shoots without having to worry that unsanctioned videos will be taken for executive-level circle jerks. 

 

But yes, if you believe that football itself is barbaric and outdated, then I suppose Snyder is merely the worst of several bad men. 

[CapsSkins]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

But yes, if you believe that football itself is barbaric and outdated, then I suppose Snyder is merely the worst of several bad men. 

 

This. It's like complaining about a Mexican cartel's maternity leave policy. (exaggerating for effect) Yes it's bad, but excusing morally unconsciable behavior is sort of baked in / table-stakes to begin with. 

 

Though just to be clear, I am of course hoping workplace/cultural conditions improve and also fully acknowledge that I still watch football because I enjoy it, despite knowing all the reasons why I shouldn't. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

20 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

This. It's like complaining about a Mexican cartel's maternity leave policy. (exaggerating for effect) Yes it's bad, but excusing morally unconsciable behavior is sort of baked in / table-stakes to begin with. 

 

Though just to be clear, I am of course hoping workplace/cultural conditions improve and also fully acknowledge that I still watch football because I enjoy it, despite knowing all the reasons why I shouldn't. 

Yeah, I think that's the only part of your stance that I am having trouble with. If you think that the foundation of football is shaky or based on immoral things, then that's kind of a separate discussion. But within that industry, there's a man who has had dozens of sexual harassment allegations and other very likely things (cheerleader scandal). So, regardless of the NFL itself, it's tough to look the other way when there are actual victims. 

[CapsSkins]

6 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

So, regardless of the NFL itself, it's tough to look the other way when there are actual victims. 

 

As if the brain-damaged, painkiller-riddled, financially-ruined players aren't victims? The ones who fight for lifetime healthcare coverage that is often denied?

 

The way I see it, you're perfectly fine compartmentalizing Bad Behavior A but won't compartmentalize Bad Behavior B. And that's fine, it's your choice and humans are emotional creatures who are not perfectly logical.

 

But then you come on here and ask how we are able to Compartmentalize Bad Behavior B, and it's like, the same way you compartmentalize Bad Behavior A. It's kind of ironic because even in this exchange you're handwaving away the damage done to many of these players after they retire and we stop ever caring or thinking about them. Like you're arbitrarily elevating one Bad Behavior over the other just bc you're more sensitive to that one.

 

Pretty much everyone here has said they dislike Snyder, root for the team in spite of him, and hope conditions improve. It's when you say "but how can you stand to watch amidst this bad behavior?" that you lose me. Especially when you won't cop to the inherently immoral compartmentalizing you active engage in every time you flip on Red Zone. Like we're really all in the same boat, here.

[Panninho]

🙊

Edited December 9, 2020 by Panninho

[Darrell Green Fan]

15 hours ago, method man said:

She totally nails it here. We need national attention and calls for this from the folks at ESPN and other national outlets for this to manifest

 

Yeah I'm surprised there is not more discussion here about this article as the Snyder ownership obviously has far more to do with the success or failure of this team than anything else.  

 

So Snyder after claiming total transparency is now suing the league hired attorney to keep the settlement specifics sealed?  That can't look good.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

Pretty much everyone here has said they dislike Snyder, root for the team in spite of him, and hope conditions improve. It's when you say "but how can you stand to watch amidst this bad behavior?" that you lose me. Especially when you won't cop to the inherently immoral compartmentalizing you active engage in every time you flip on Red Zone. Like we're really all in the same boat, here.

 

I guess I separate these two scenarios in my mind:

 

1) Someone who signs 6-figure-or-more contract to participate in a sport KNOWING the injuries and risks associated with it

 

2) Someone who signs a contract to dance or cheer or file papers for a team NOT KNOWING the risks of being harassed, filmed naked, etc. Keep in mind, these girls aren't complaining that they pulled their hamstrings or lost time with their families - those things they signed up for - they are complaining that they were exploited by their employer. 

 

I'm not saying that there aren't things that can be improved in the fabric of the NFL...but one situation is a known outcome while the other is predatory behavior. 

[CapsSkins]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I guess I separate these two scenarios in my mind:

 

1) Someone who signs 6-figure-or-more contract to participate in a sport KNOWING the injuries and risks associated with it

 

2) Someone who signs a contract to dance or cheer or file papers for a team NOT KNOWING the risks of being harassed, filmed naked, etc. Keep in mind, these girls aren't complaining that they pulled their hamstrings or lost time with their families - those things they signed up for - they are complaining that they were exploited by their employer. 

 

I'm not saying that there aren't things that can be improved in the fabric of the NFL...but one situation is a known outcome while the other is predatory behavior. 

 

So predatory behavior is no longer predatory if it's well-documented? By that logic, anyone who signs up to be a WFT cheerleader today could be harassed and you'd say "oh well, it's a known outcome" because she technically knew what she was signing up for. More broadly to illustrate the point, are you saying sweat shops are excusable because the workers know what they sign up for? Miners hacking away getting black lung? I think that's absurd. Predatory behavior is defined as exploitative behavior that preys on the vulnerable. Known or not.

 

Also, it's once again the height of irony that for something you can look past (exploitation of players), you choose benign examples like pulled hammies and not the debilitating brain damage, crippling arthritis or prescription drug abuse and addiction they often face. While for the thing you do care about, you pick the strongest examples like being filmed naked. Your selective examples there in of themselves telegraph the compartmentalizing going on.

 

Anyway, at this point we're getting a bit circular not to mention veering into the political and I don't want to incur the wrath of the mods - IDK what kind of leash I get on that but I'm sure it's not as long as someone w/ over 26K posts and "Ring of Fame" under their username. If you want to believe that you have drawn a line in the sand that's miles apart from where we've drawn ours, that's your prerogative. Maybe it proverbially helps you sleep at night. But I believe your line is really just inches away. It is what it is. 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by CapsSkins

[Koolblue13]

It's like you live in some small ****hole town in most of America and there's a corner bar that everyone goes to on Fridays. Said bar/restaurant was bought by some rich douchebag and ****s it up, but every one keeps going because you do, so you **** and moan instead of finding another one. They kept bringing in a new "manager" but that's bull**** because the front of the house is a joke, then they bring in an actual chef and give him all the control and it gets messy for a while, but a chef actually knows how to run a ****ing restaurant and do all the dirty work and people around him see that. Our HC beat ****ing cancer. That's hardcore. Got a lot of mother****ers excited about dirty work. Dline loves playing as a unit and nobody is looking for glory, just wins. We're going to get really ****ing tough and good the next two years.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

15 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

So predatory behavior is no longer predatory if it's well-documented? By that logic, anyone who signs up to be a WFT cheerleader today could be harassed and you'd say "oh well, it's a known outcome" because she technically knew what she was signing up for. More broadly to illustrate the point, are you saying sweat shops are excusable because the workers know what they sign up for? Miners hacking away getting black lung? I think that's absurd. Predatory behavior is defined as exploitative behavior that preys on the vulnerable. Known or not.

 

Also, it's once again the height of irony that for something you can look past (exploitation of players), you choose benign examples like pulled hammies and not the debilitating brain damage, crippling arthritis or prescription drug abuse and addiction they often face. While for the thing you do care about, you pick the strongest examples like being filmed naked. Your selective examples there in of themselves telegraph the compartmentalizing going on.

 

Anyway, at this point we're getting a bit circular not to mention veering into the political and I don't want to incur the wrath of the mods - IDK what kind of leash I get on that but I'm sure it's not as long as someone w/ over 26K posts and "Ring of Fame" under their username. If you want to believe that you have drawn a line in the sand that's miles apart from where we've drawn ours, that's your prerogative. Maybe it proverbially helps you sleep at night. But I believe your line is really just inches away. It is what it is. 

 

 

I guess my line is drawn at illegal behavior. If these were **** fights or some underground league, I could see your point. But we have a multi-billion dollar league of people all entering into legal agreements to play a game still played all the way down to the peewee level. You're trying to relate that to sexual misconduct and filming employees naked without consent. I don't think those two things are inches away from one another...and I don't the fact that I've been here since 2001 plays into that at all. 

 

Take your miner analogy. I still think there's a difference between a miner doing dangerous work (and the efforts to clean up that industry) and the owner of one of those companies actively harassing his or her employees. 

[CapsSkins]

57 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I guess my line is drawn at illegal behavior. If these were **** fights or some underground league, I could see your point. But we have a multi-billion dollar league of people all entering into legal agreements to play a game still played all the way down to the peewee level. You're trying to relate that to sexual misconduct and filming employees naked without consent. I don't think those two things are inches away from one another...and I don't the fact that I've been here since 2001 plays into that at all. 

 

Take your miner analogy. I still think there's a difference between a miner doing dangerous work (and the efforts to clean up that industry) and the owner of one of those companies actively harassing his or her employees. 

 

Legality can often be a poor proxy for right vs. wrong. It used to be legal to own slaves - and in some parts of the world, it effectively still is. Think about the current fight over police brutality, which in many cases is state sanctioned. Jim Crow was legal, the Chinese Exclusion Act was legal, Japanese internment camps were legal, etc. etc.

 

Edit: Mods, please let me know if you think this is getting too political for The Stadium.

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by CapsSkins

[TD_washingtonredskins]

15 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Legality can often be a poor proxy for right vs. wrong. It used to be legal to own slaves - and in some parts of the world, it effectively still is. Think about the current fight over police brutality, which in many cases is state sanctioned. Jim Crow was legal, the Chinese Exclusion Act was legal, Japanese internment camps were legal, etc. etc.

 

Edit: Mods, please let me know if you think this is getting too political for The Stadium.

 

I get it, but I think you're trying too hard to wedge this relevance into your argument. 

 

Once again...on one hand we have a sport being played for compensation and on the other we have people being harassed at their jobs. Even if football is, in your opinion, immoral or wrong...the acts against the female employees and cheerleaders was more nefarious. 

 

I can believe that animals being in a zoo is immoral or wrong even though it's legal. I can also believe that abusing the animals in a zoo and having animal fight clubs in private is far worse. 

[CapsSkins]

8 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I get it, but I think you're trying too hard to wedge this relevance into your argument. 

 

Once again...on one hand we have a sport being played for compensation and on the other we have people being harassed at their jobs. Even if football is, in your opinion, immoral or wrong...the acts against the female employees and cheerleaders was more nefarious. 

 

I can believe that animals being in a zoo is immoral or wrong even though it's legal. I can also believe that abusing the animals in a zoo and having animal fight clubs in private is far worse. 

 

To be very clear, I also think it's wrong. This whole convo started bc you essentially asked ppl here how we could bear to watch this team when we know what's happened off-the-field.  My point has been that compartmentalizing away off-field issues from watching the team is fundamentally the same whether "off-field issues" means harassment in the corporate culture or exploitation of the players. Obviously you don't agree with that, hence why this discussion started in the first place, but I think it's been articulated clearly enough that you can at least understand it.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

To be very clear, I also think it's wrong. This whole convo started bc you essentially asked ppl here how we could bear to watch this team when we know what's happened off-the-field.  My point has been that compartmentalizing away off-field issues from watching the team is fundamentally the same whether "off-field issues" means harassment in the corporate culture or exploitation of the players. Obviously you don't agree with that, hence why this discussion started in the first place, but I think it's been articulated clearly enough that you can at least understand it.

Right...and I'm saying that "exploitation of players" is nowhere near the offense of harassment and criminal filming of employees. I think that's where we are miles apart. But, like you said, I think we both know what the other is saying. 

 

I overlooked plenty in my time as a fan. I guess I just hit my limit when I found out the severity and disgustingness of these latest things. 

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Right...and I'm saying that "exploitation of players" is nowhere near the offense of harassment and criminal filming of employees. I think that's where we are miles apart. But, like you said, I think we both know what the other is saying. 

 

I overlooked plenty in my time as a fan. I guess I just hit my limit when I found out the severity and disgustingness of these latest things. 

Your choice of course 👍🏾👍🏾

[Voice_of_Reason]

To change the topic a little bit, if you haven't done so already, go listen to the Ron interview on the John Keim podcast from yesterday.  There's no football, it's all about his cancer treatment.  After listening to what he was going through, how the hell he managed to keep any semblance of control of the team is remarkable.

 

There was a debate on coach of the year on a few shows.  Currently, on one reputable betting site, the top contenders are:

 

Mike Tomlin (Steelers)
Brian Flores (Dolphins)
Kevin Stefanski (Browns)
Ron Rivera (Football Team)
Joe Judge (Giants)
Sean Payton (Saints)
Sean McDermott (Bills)
Frank Reich (Colts)
Bill Belichick (Patriots)
Andy Reid (Chiefs)
Matt LaFleur (Packers)
Mike Vrabel (Titans)
Sean McVay (Rams)
 

 

If the WFT wins out and makes the playoffs and wins the division, I think there's a really good chance Ron could win it.  He will have taken over a pathetic 3-13 team, battled cancer, and won a division.  (I'm not suggesting all of these things WILL happen, just IF they do.)

 

The story is remarkable. Listen to the podcast, and it's more remarkable.  Factor in they're on QB #3, he has pushed just about all the right buttons, etc.   Now, if they fade down the stretch, this won't happen.  But Ron is getting some love for what he's pulling off so far in Washington.  

 

I do feel kindof bad or Andy Reid.  I mean, he might be the best coach in the league right now, they just won the SB, and because they're expected to be 11-1 at this point basically they're like, "yeah, whatever."

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If the WFT wins out and makes the playoffs and wins the division, I think there's a really good chance Ron could win it.  He will have taken over a pathetic 3-13 team, battled cancer, and won a division.  (I'm not suggesting all of these things WILL happen, just IF they do.)

 

The story is remarkable. Listen to the podcast, and it's more remarkable.  Factor in they're on QB #3, he has pushed just about all the right buttons, etc.   Now, if they fade down the stretch, this won't happen.  But Ron is getting some love for what he's pulling off so far in Washington.  

 

Plus there's the Halo Effect of Alex's story. Lots of good juju around the franchise. Had Tomlin gone undefeated it would have been his. Now that someone put a stop to that 😉 I'd say the leading contender is Stefanski. But if we say win 7 in a row and grab the division w/ a winning record after everything that went down, including in the offseason with the name change, I think you'd definitely see Ron as Coach of the Year and Alex as Comeback Player of the Year (Alex will happen regardless).

 

We should actually really, really root for Ron to win that award because it will make Dan back off even more. Now that I think about it, it's another reason to root for a playoff berth. I'd rather pick 19th and choose Ron and Kyle's guy than pick #9 and have Dan overriding the process yet again.  

[mhd24]

Random post from the Bengals Message board about wanting to hire Jay as their new head coach.

 

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Bring-Back-Jay-Gruden-for-Head-Coach

 

Apparently, Taylor has been a disaster.  The vast majority want him fired.  Gruden can certainly coach an offense.  He'd get Burrow to play great and scheme wide open WRs.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

29 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Plus there's the Halo Effect of Alex's story. Lots of good juju around the franchise. Had Tomlin gone undefeated it would have been his. Now that someone put a stop to that 😉 I'd say the leading contender is Stefanski. But if we say win 7 in a row and grab the division w/ a winning record after everything that went down, including in the offseason with the name change, I think you'd definitely see Ron as Coach of the Year and Alex as Comeback Player of the Year (Alex will happen regardless).

 

We should actually really, really root for Ron to win that award because it will make Dan back off even more. Now that I think about it, it's another reason to root for a playoff berth. I'd rather pick 19th and choose Ron and Kyle's guy than pick #9 and have Dan overriding the process yet again.  

Yeah, it's going to be hard to beat out either Stefanski or Flores, because both teams were really bad last year also, both teams have been bad, and both are really good turn around stories also, and they'll end up with a better record, most likely.

 

But here's what Ron has going for him, again, this is ONLY true IF they win out:

- Division title. (I'm going to assume the Giants don't win out)

- He's Ron Rivera.  He's actually won coach of the year twice before. (I think)  Everybody likes him.  He's one of the most respected people in the NFL, period.  

- He battled cancer DURING the season.  

- He clearly made the right choices at QB when he needed to.  

- They will have ended the season on a 7-0 run.  That's pretty impressive no matter what the situation.

 

So, it could happen.  I think the cancer thing would really factor into voter's minds. All of the on-the-field accomplishments while undergoing cancer treatment and not missing a game is absolutely remarkable.

 

We'll see.  They kindof have to win out to make this a thing. Which they probably won't.  So it's probably irrelevant.    

[Spearfeather]

3 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 Gruden can certainly coach an offense.  He'd get Burrow to play great and scheme wide open WRs.  

 

Let's not forget he could also get delay of game penalties with the best of them. Had quite the knack for running the same plays in the same situations over and over again, and striking while the iron is hot be damned.

[CommanderInTheRye]

3 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Random post from the Bengals Message board about wanting to hire Jay as their new head coach.

 

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Bring-Back-Jay-Gruden-for-Head-Coach

 

Apparently, Taylor has been a disaster.  The vast majority want him fired.  Gruden can certainly coach an offense.  He'd get Burrow to play great and scheme wide open WRs.  

 

 

Plus Jay has great nipples for twisting. Players appreciate and respect coaches that offer themselves up like that.

 

 

 

[dyst]

4 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Random post from the Bengals Message board about wanting to hire Jay as their new head coach.

 

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Bring-Back-Jay-Gruden-for-Head-Coach

 

Apparently, Taylor has been a disaster.  The vast majority want him fired.  Gruden can certainly coach an offense.  He'd get Burrow to play great and scheme wide open WRs.  

Kind of sad reading that thread. When you are advocating for Jay Gruden or Rex Ryan, it’s a sad state if affairs. I feel their pain. 

[CapsSkins]

Jay Gruden was a very good offensive mind and talent evaluator, and a very poor leader and culture-setter. It combined to make for a very mediocre head coach. If the organization weren't such a dumpster fire, I think he could have done okay. In a first-class org he could have been very successful. But he needs to be at a place where the culture is already set, cause he ain't gonna build it for you.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

On 12/8/2020 at 10:14 PM, CapsSkins said:

 

This does amuse me. 

 

People, "genuine integrity" and "National Football League" do not go together. The NFL is a largely barbaric and exploitative enterprise run by a cartel of billionaire owners hiding behind "they know what they signed up for" even though these are largely poor players jacking themselves up with painkillers to go destroy each others' bodies for our entertainment.

 

Dan Snyder maybe be the worst of the bunch, though more likely, he's just the most publicly bad of the bunch. But this is really a rotten enterprise all around.

 

We watch because we enjoy it in spite of everything else. Like how I eat meat even though I know how cruel factory farms are to animals.

 

But please do not moralize about "genuine integrity" in talking about the NFL. People will probably look back on the NFL in the future the way we look back at Roman gladiators. AKA, "I can't believe that **** was legal"

 

 

 

A head line of "The NFL's only path to genuine integrity is without owners like Daniel Snyder" would have been more accurate and still drove the message home, but this is a local paper (at least in terms of sports) and it's going to steer its headlines towards focusing on the local.

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Random post from the Bengals Message board about wanting to hire Jay as their new head coach.

 

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Bring-Back-Jay-Gruden-for-Head-Coach

 

Apparently, Taylor has been a disaster.  The vast majority want him fired.  Gruden can certainly coach an offense.  He'd get Burrow to play great and scheme wide open WRs.  

The Steelers, Ravens and Browns organizations and the respective fan bases would be thrilled with that hire.  There's a certain poster on this board who might have an outside shot of getting a steak dinner off of me in 10 years also.