2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Riggo#44]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The one narrative that can drive me nuts is build the roster and then when you are ready, the franchise QB will be there for the taking, just like the Chiefs.

Or the Mac Jones-Tom Brady comparisons

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

Since I've been watching football almost 50 years ago, only two top picks TEs have significantly out-performed alternatives picked lower. Further, the players who actually changed the game rarely going in the top 15 unless you include great players being injured. Pitts fits the TE model that has pretty much been around since SD took Winslow.

 

It's usage.  If the team that drafts Pitts, uses him as a TE, then yes, you're right.

 

However, if the team that drafts Pitts, uses him as a WR...

[Burgundy Yoda]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

This will be an unpopular take: if we draft Kadarius Toney, then we should draft Trask.  Those two have an amazing connection.  It's like there is a magnet that kicks in after Trask releases that guides the ball right into Toney's hands.  They've got a mind-meld.

 

Nobody else likes Trask, but I kind of like him as a project late in round three or in round four.  He's very rough, and TBH, he doesn't seem particularly bright.  But he's got that tough, gamer mentality to where he shrugs off mistakes and stays aggressive and just kind of gets it done.  He needs a lot of work, but if a coach can speed up his general process and get progression reading fast, and get him staying on time and on balance, there is something there to work with.  He's got unusually excellent touch on throws to all parts of the field and he is especially good at feathering swing passes and beating man coverage on the outside.  Looks like he has pretty good feel for throwing screens too.  I think he could end up being a decent starter in a few years.

You aren't the only one. I actually like Trask a lot in the 3rd as QB competition for Allen and Heinicke. I feel like drafting him isn't a panic move, one of my biggest fears is us mortgaging a ton of draft capital on a QB we aren't in love with because QB is such a big need. 

 

Florida's offensive line was hot garbage and Trask was constantly putting up good numbers and working around it. I'd love to see some of these other top QBs behind that Florida offensive line. I've watched a pretty significant amount of games on the other top QBs in this draft and Trask faced by far the most pressures it seems like. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[mhd24]

10 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Pitts is different.  He's not a normal TE prospect, he's the best receiving TE I've ever seen at the college level.  He whipped the ass of first round cornerbacks in press man outside of the numbers.  He made the big play in double and triple coverage routinely.  He drew four penalties in the SEC championship game because even the Bama kids couldn't hang with him without cheating and he still went off for 130 yards and a TD.

 

He's the most physically dominant college receiver since Calvin Johnson and he's got some pretty impressive upside as a run blocker.  It's basically him and Penei Sewell and Trey Lance as the guys with the highest individual upside in the class.

 

 

I actually think Miami might take him at 3.  They already have Devonte Parker and Preston Williams.  Flores knows the value of a dominant TE receiver.  

[duffy]

8 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I actually think Miami might take him at 3.  They already have Devonte Parker and Preston Williams.  Flores knows the value of a dominant TE receiver.  

They could probably even trade back a few spots and still take him. 

[KDawg]

I don’t understand why building the roster is a narrative that upsets people. There are only so many franchise level QBs and beyond that so many elite level QBs. Your best option if you don’t have one of them or you don’t want to cripple your team for the next decade is to build the roster while you try to find the QB...

Edited February 19, 2021 by KDawg

[mhd24]

32 minutes ago, duffy said:

They could probably even trade back a few spots and still take him. 

Probably to 5 (in a swap where Cincy moves up for Sewell).  Issue is that Cincy NEVER trades up (Mike Brown is that old school).  I think he's done it once (the Ki-Jana Carter trade)

[Chump Bailey]

Playing my resident contrarian role, I'm more partial to taking a flyer on KJ Costello rather than Trask. 

[Going Commando]

7 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

You aren't the only one. I actually like Trask a lot in the 3rd as QB competition for Allen and Heinicke. I feel like drafting him isn't a panic move, one of my biggest fears is us mortgaging a ton of draft capital on a QB we aren't in love with because QB is such a big need. 

 

Florida's offensive line was hot garbage and Trask was constantly putting up good numbers and working around it. I'd love to see some of these other top QBs behind that Florida offensive line. I've watched a pretty significant amount of games on the other top QBs in this draft and Trask faced by far the most pressures it seems like. 

 

I like his accuracy and touch, and TBH, he kind of reminds me of a tougher and more patient Daniel Jones sans the bizarrely good wheels that Jones has.  I think Trask is in Justin Fields's world as a touch thrower who consistently puts it on the money, but obviously doesn't have anywhere near the same athleticism or pocket polish.  He's rougher and less NFL ready, but that's why you draft him later and bring him in with the intention to sit and then as you say, compete with Taylor and Kyle somewhere down the line.

 

Trask is a weird player to watch.  He has slow feet and no feel for how to scramble to escape pressure at all, and he puts his head down like a Rhino charge on designed runs and just YOLOs it without looking to see if there is any crease there at all.  But he had a ton of called runs and was bizarrely effective at moving the chains or getting TDs and 2 PT conversions on them.

 

I agree with you that he seemed to face more pressure than the top QBs of the class and had to do a ton more improvising.  Unlike them, he had no running game so a lot of the pressure comes from that.  But some of it is also definitely because he will hold the ball forever to wait on his reads and then eventually hoist some kind of back foot nonsense that is uncatchable, but it's also how he avoided throwing picks for most of the year.  If you can speed up his process in the pocket and develop his scrambling ability and feel for escaping to avoid pressure, then he would be so much more natural looking and efficient on off schedule plays.

 

There is some playmaker gene in him, which is what piqued my interest in him as a developmental project.  I am in the same camp with you that we shouldn't panic and pay these crazy QB prices, go for a project, and then build the ol and add playmakers this off-season.  I'd like to see that QB room shake out, and if we get lucky and someone really good who we can get without spending 3 firsts on is available next year, then Trask can be a back up option given he was cheap to get.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

I don’t understand why building the roster is a narrative that upsets people. There are only so many franchise level QBs and beyond that so many elite level QBs. Your best option if you don’t have one of them or you don’t want to cripple your team for the next decade is to build the roster while you try to find the QB...

 

Dont get the narrative that there are people who are opposed to building the roster.   I know I certainly I am not.   I've articulated many times what I would do if they can't get a QB.   My point though is just because you build a roster it doesn't mean you'll find a franchise Qb when the roster feels set.   I have a lot of confidence that we will build a good roster.  I don't share the same confidence that we will find a franchise QB -- maybe its the 20 years plus being in the wilderness on the QB spot has made me a cynic that the Qb will manifest when the time is right.   

 

On the QB thread, I've had a price on what am willing to give up for name that QB.  I don't believe in overpaying.  But at the same time, I am not optimistic that things will unfold in our favor at any juncture at QB -- if you bet on a team finding a franchise QB, the house money is always on no not yes.   I think you got to get lucky, hopefully we get lucky for a change, you'd think if any team is due for good luck at the QB spot its this one. . I am not saying you are on the other side of these points, just explaining my take on the issue. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[seantaylor=god]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 I'd like to see that QB room shake out, and if we get lucky and someone really good who we can get without spending 3 firsts on is available next year, then Trask can be a back up option given he was cheap to get.

I think taking a QB every other year isn’t a bad idea when you don’t have a lot of clarity there. We need to sign a FA and/or draft someone this year. I bet we add 2 QBs and end up with something like (Allen, Heineke, mid round pick, Mariotta). Montez is likely cut or PS.
 

The question is, where do you think Trask goes and is he worth it? I think he ends up going between the 2nd and 3rd round. I suspect he’s gone before our 2nd third round pick. It will be interesting to see how the team evaluates QBs. I would think they would prefer a QB with more running ability.

 

[duffy]

2 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

Playing my resident contrarian role, I'm more partial to taking a flyer on KJ Costello rather than Trask. 

 

I think I'd go with Mills or Book as late as I could. 

[Berggy9598]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Dont get the narrative that there are people who are opposed to building the roster.   I know I certainly I am not.   I've articulated many times what I would do if they can't get a QB.   My point though is just because you build a roster it doesn't mean you'll find a franchise Qb when the roster feels set.   I have a lot of confidence that we will build a good roster.  I don't share the same confidence that we will find a franchise QB -- maybe its the 20 years plus being in the wilderness on the QB spot has made me a cynic that the Qb will manifest when the time is right.   

 

On the QB thread, I've had a price on what am willing to give up for name that QB.  I don't believe in overpaying.  But at the same time, I am not optimistic that things will unfold in our favor at any juncture at QB -- if you bet on a team finding a franchise QB, the house money is always on no not yes.   I think you got to get lucky, hopefully we get lucky for a change, you'd think if any team is due for good luck at the QB spot its this one. . I am not saying you are on the other side of these points, just explaining my take on the issue. 

It's more about how lightening the burden of a rookie QB early on can be conducive to long term success. Most QBs going in the first round are going to be very talented, but if they're starting early on and they have (for example) a defense that gives up a ton of points and a running game that need not be accounted for they're going to get beat up physically and mentally. That's not to say you pass on someone if you think he's the guy, but no matter how talented he is there's a real risk involved that if there's monumental struggles early on because there is nothing around the kid, he's not recovering psychologically and then you have a bust. 

 

IMO the benefits of bringing a kid into a cushy situation is why you see good teams trade up if they think they've identified their guy, but there's a ton of luck involved as you never know what the next crop of QBs will look like. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

I don’t understand why building the roster is a narrative that upsets people. There are only so many franchise level QBs and beyond that so many elite level QBs. Your best option if you don’t have one of them or you don’t want to cripple your team for the next decade is to build the roster while you try to find the QB...

Franchise QBs can be found anywhere if you know what you're looking for and know how to maximize that players potential. 

 

Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, Dak Prescott, Lamar Jackson, Derek Carr, Ben Roethlisberger and Kirk Cousins were all picked at pick 10 or later. Kirk and Carr are the floor for what I would consider franchise QBs but it just seems absurd to me to trade 3-5 1st round picks for Deshaun Watson when we'd be crippling his success with our team. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Number 44]

5 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Probably to 5 (in a swap where Cincy moves up for Sewell).  Issue is that Cincy NEVER trades up (Mike Brown is that old school).  I think he's done it once (the Ki-Jana Carter trade)

Frankly, I think Sewell is a bigger need for MIA than Pitts, and I think that they grab him at 3.  A lot of folks have Sewell as the highest rated football player in this draft.

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Franchise QBs can be found anywhere if you know what you're looking for and know how to maximize that players potential. 

 

Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, Dak Prescott, Lamar Jackson, Derek Carr, Ben Roethlisberger and Kirk Cousins were all picked at pick 10 or later. Kirk and Carr are the floor for what I would consider franchise QBs but it just seems absurd to me to trade 3-5 1st round picks for Deshaun Watson when we'd be crippling his success with our team. 

I think you’re oversimplifying things a touch. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

Just now, KDawg said:

I think you’re oversimplifying things a touch. 

There's no need to go into depth with that statement. I mean I could, but it's not worth the effort. 

[KDawg]

47 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

There's no need to go into depth with that statement. I mean I could, but it's not worth the effort. 

I meant your view on it.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Berggy9598 said:

It's more about how lightening the burden of a rookie QB early on can be conducive to long term success. Most QBs going in the first round are going to be very talented, but if they're starting early on and they have (for example) a defense that gives up a ton of points and a running game that need not be accounted for they're going to get beat up physically and mentally. That's not to say you pass on someone if you think he's the guy, but no matter how talented he is there's a real risk involved that if there's monumental struggles early on because there is nothing around the kid, he's not recovering psychologically and then you have a bust. 

 

IMO the benefits of bringing a kid into a cushy situation is why you see good teams trade up if they think they've identified their guy, but there's a ton of luck involved as you never know what the next crop of QBs will look like. 

 

I agree.  I don't think though a QB here will be coming into a bad situation.  So my take is if there is one within your reach go get him.  Don't wait for your roster to be perfect.  If the opportunity doesn't afford itself then don't force it and try again next off season.  I get the impression that this is exactly what Rivera is doing and IMO that's the smart approach.

 

The roster this minute isn't of course frozen in time.  We can say the poor QB can only throw the ball to Terry and that's it.  But I'd put money that we will have a spanking new WR FA in a few weeks and probably another in the draft, too.  The off season isn't finished.  It hasn't even started.  We don't know what they'd do but i'd be surprised if the end result is they accomplish nothing. 

 

Personally I think some in the QB discussion can be polarizing because the extremist points on both sides get play and both sides get tagged with it regardless of what nuance exist in their point.  And its all in good spirits on both sides.  QB is an emotional topic but especially for this team considering the heartache over the years at that spot. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I meant your view on it.

Ah, Tbh I was kind of piggybacking off of what you were saying because I agreed with you. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Dark Acre]

Serious question:  if Pitts projects to be a dangerous receiver in the NFL, why did he play TE in college?  I don't get that.

[peanut0862]

Seems like we've tried trading the house for a QB aka RG3 and we've tried building the roster through the draft Payne, Allen,Scherff, Young, Sweat ect. We just seem to always miss on QB's (Haskins). So do we draft another middle of the road QB like Mac Jones or do we try trading up again. I hope this year we hit lottery feels like it should be our turn but I think that every year.

 

[Dark Acre]

1 hour ago, Number 44 said:

Frankly, I think Sewell is a bigger need for MIA than Pitts, and I think that they grab him at 3.  A lot of folks have Sewell as the highest rated football player in this draft.

Maybe I'm wrong (and my days of dominating my brother at Intellivision football are long past), but it seems to me a player's rating should be position rated.  At a certain point, offensive linemen max out what their athletic skills are capable of providing their team.  At a certain point, what the #1 rated OT in a draft gives you versus the #2 is much less than what the #1 WR can give you versus the #2.  

[jobaga]

5 minutes ago, peanut0862 said:

Seems like we've tried trading the house for a QB aka RG3 and we've tried building the roster through the draft Payne, Allen,Scherff, Young, Sweat ect. We just seem to always miss on QB's (Haskins). So do we draft another middle of the road QB like Mac Jones or do we try trading up again. I hope this year we hit lottery feels like it should be our turn but I think that every year.

 

I think they need to continue to build up the roster. This was a 7-9 team in a really weak division. They are not a QB away from the Super Bowl. If the opportunity presents itself to upgrade a QB through the draft or a mid tier trade then they should take it. Otherwise they need to stay the course of drafting BPA and using free agency to address needs. I would like to see them be a little more aggressive in FA instead of shopping for bargains and reclamation projects. If they have a good offseason and hit on a good number of guys they will be in a position to go in big for a QB next year.

 

[Berggy9598]

5 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Maybe I'm wrong (and my days of dominating my brother at Intellivision football are long past), but it seems to me a player's rating should be position rated.  At a certain point, offensive linemen max out what their athletic skills are capable of providing their team.  At a certain point, what the #1 rated OT in a draft gives you versus the #2 is much less than what the #1 WR can give you versus the #2.  

What their skills are capable for providing for their team is a foundation for the skill positions to succeed. Being stacked at WR with a poor offensive line is how you end up at 5-11 with a top passing offense. Offensive linemen are more frequent in the top 5-7 than receivers for a reason.