2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[88Comrade2000]

Here's an interesting proposition for 2021.

 

Let's assume one of two things happens this year.

 

#1- The season is cancelled.

#2- Only a handful of games(3-5) are played this year. Meaning you really won't have much time to evaluate the players.

 

The Redskins end up with the #1 pick in the 2021 draft.  The Skins have 2 options.

 

#1- You draft Trevor Lawrence as the QB.

#2- You trade away the rights to draft Trevor Lawrence for multiple picks.  Skins probably still draft a QB to give Dwayne competition.

 

What would you do?

 

That is something that could realistically happen.   Do we take Trevor and that will probably mean moving on from Dwayne.  Or to we get more picks

and probably still draft a QB to compete with Dwayne for the job?  

 

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

#2- Only a handful of games(3-5) are played this year. Meaning you really won't have much time to evaluate the players.

That’s a tough call, but what I would say is that I think even with a small sample size Rivera will know very quickly if Haskins is the QB he wants to go with moving forward. Irrespective of results over a handful of games, he’ll have his QB evaluated by the middle of September IMO.

 

I also wouldn’t pass on Lawrence to then draft a QB later to complete. If you feel the need to do that, you take the best one there at #1

[Going Commando]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Ledyard who I think does good work on draft issues, ranks who he thinks are the best in the NFL per position

 

His WR and S rankings are a mess, and Zack Martin, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Stephon Gilmore should clearly be way higher.  But these kinds of lists are difficult to do.  Most of his rankings look good.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

His WR and S rankings are a mess, and Zack Martin, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Stephon Gilmore should clearly be way higher.  But these kinds of lists are difficult to do.  Most of his rankings look good.

 

I admit I like Ledyard in part because he's not a follow the herd kind of guy and some of his offbeat type of views of some draft prospects have closely mirrored mine.   I don't always agree with him but i like that he's isn't that conventional and he's also not the type who is also unconventional just for sake of being unconventional.  He usually puts some detail into his thoughts. 

 

I think a big part of me liking the dude is he shared my massive man crush for Derrius Guice before the 2018 draft.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I admit I like Ledyard in part because he's not a follow the herd kind of guy and some of his offbeat type of views of some draft prospects have closely mirrored mine.   I don't always agree with him but i like that he's isn't that conventional and he's also not the type who is also unconventional just for sake of being unconventional.  He usually puts some detail into his thoughts. 

 

I think a big part of me liking the dude is he shared my massive man crush for Derrius Guice before the 2018 draft.

 

Stephon Gilmore is his most questionable take as he is clearly better than those three guys ahead of him at this stage in their careers.  His past two seasons were basically as good as a cornerback can have.  They put him in the HoF.  Ledyard seems to go back and forth on how much career accomplishment/track record should matter too.  Tyron Smith and Von Miller and JJ Watt are highly rated, justifably so, depite the seasons they are coming off of.  He doesn't kill them like he seems to kill Martin and Brees and Rodgers.  There is just no world in which Dak Prescott is or has ever been a better quarterback than Aaron Rodgers.  And if we're recognizing the value of career accomplishment over the most recent results, then if you were to put some meaningful amount of money on the line for anyone except Ravens and Texans fans, they would take Brees and Rodgers over Watson and Jackson for next season for the purpose of building a team from scratch.

 

But anyone can endlessly quibble over these kinds of rankings.  It's like a draft big board made out of well known quantities.  Big boards are super difficult and dynamic and a lot of thought goes into them.  I respect the effort to make one and this is a generally good one.

[Fresh8686]

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

In case Sean Davis doesn't work out, here's a 1st round safety that should be on our radar. With our defense most likely being top 5 in the pass rush department, we're going to need someone with sticky hands at safety to take advantage of all the ill-advised throws from opposing QBs. Holland has 9 ints in his first two college football seasons, he's a playmaker. 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Burgundy Yoda

[HTTRDynasty]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

So PFF acknowledges that their DB, WR, and QB grades are highly volatile, but they don't seem to get that this indicates there is a pretty significant problem in the way they are grading these positions, particularly in comparison to the other ones.  Instead they assume the variability must be an accurate reflection of performance at those positions, and move on to derive conclusions that they are the most valuable and least replaceable positions in the game.  But what seems more likely to you?

 

1 - that QBs, WRs, and DBs can essentially forget their talent or make enormous, epiphany-like breakthroughs season to season, often in non-linear progressions, or that they suffer systemically greater rates of debilitating injuries

 

Or

 

2 - that PFFs grading system is flawed and really noisy for those positions in particular

 

Where have you seen PFF acknowledge that their grades for QB and WR are highly volatile?  I can understand DBs being so volatile, as so much of their production is reliant on the QB and offensive scheme they are facing from game-to-game and year-to-year, and I could even understand WR (though I haven't seen them actually say that) but I've actually seen them say the opposite for QB.  And if you dig deeper, their QB grades (especially their clean-pocket QB grades) are more stable from year-to-year than any other metric I've seen out there.

 

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I think you're also suggesting that PFF's work is more broadly accepted and valued by industry insiders than it probably is.  I have no doubt that agents use their work to try and get more money for their clients in contract negotiations when it suits that agenda.  And PFF cited discussion of their work on SNF as a basis of their credibility in that paper you linked (not mentioning that I'm pretty sure Chris Collinsworth works for them and was hired to promote their work).  But that doesn't mean that coaches and front office employees put a lot of stock in PFF's work when they're doing evaluations.

 

Well, I'm basing it on the fact that every team in the league pays for their service.  I have no idea how teams are using this data, but I doubt they'd pay for it if they thought it was trash.  I remember reading that teams use the grades in negotiations as well, but I don't have the time to go hunting for confirmation right now.  I do know teams like the Ravens are whole-heartedly building their team on defense around a lot of PFF's conclusions, so I'm inclined to believe their work is having more of an impact in the league than you may think.

 

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

But let's get back to the original debate about the value of coverage vs line play and break down the value of a great DB vs a great DL, and in this case specifically, S vs 1 tech.  I agree with the premise that coverage is extremely important for defensive success.  But individual contribution in coverage is a cog in the machine type of contribution.  You can play perfect coverage and make virtually no impact on the outcome of the play because your pass defense still got shredded due to another guy's failure.  That is much less the case with line play.  If you win your match up as a DL, then you're likely going to impact the outcome of the play, either by wrecking that part of the pocket and altering the throw, or closing a run crease.  You can be much more of a routine gamewrecker as a DL in this way.

 

That has been the conventional wisdom, but, when it comes to pass-rushing, it's being challenged and debunked in many ways.  But I'll leave out all the evidence from articles on PFF, FiveThirtyEight, SI, ESPN, etc. that pass rushing has been overvalued. Let's just focus on Payne (1T) vs. Adams (S) over the past 2 years:

 

D. Payne (2018-19): 

7 sacks

12 QB hits

1 forced fumble

5 pass deflections

9 TFLs

112 tackles

 

J. Adams (2018-19): 

10 sacks

21 QB hits

5 forced fumbles

19 pass deflections

19 TFLs

190 tackles

 

Obviously, one player made a much greater impact in his two seasons than the other.  Now, you might say, "well one player's primary job is to take on blocks, while the other's is to make pays in space" and you would be right, but Payne was not double-teamed nearly as much as you probably think in the passing game.  In fact, it was one of the lowest rates in the league:

 

 

 

Also, one of the primary pass coverage > pass rush arguments is that pressures matter, but not nearly as much as forcing an incomplete pass.  And sacks matter, but not nearly as much as an interception.  On top of that, forced incompletions are much more frequent than pressures.  For example, Jamal Adams was targeted 98 times over his two year career.  His coverage helped force 44 incompletions.  Payne only pressured the QB 22 times.  On the other hand, sacks do generally happen more frequently than interceptions; however, the impact of an interception much higher than the impact of a sack.  Really, the only thing Payne can do better than Adams is take on double-teams in the run game, which is a more easily replaceable skill-set than what Adams offers, which is why the value of a 0 and 1-tech has decreased drastically over the years.

 

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Another example relevant to the discussion of Derwin James's value--PFF has recently claimed that the Chargers have the best secondary in the NFL, presumably in terms of talent.  Their raw team pass defense stats were good last season too.  But they were 21st in pass defense and total defensive DVOA last season.  The individual talent they've stockpiled didn't translate to defensive success or wins last year.  Judging by their low rankings in a suite of team rush defense stats as well as team rushing offense stats, they had significant problems in their defensive front and even bigger problems with their run game.  Those failures superseded the impact of that secondary, and they lost a bunch of games.

 

Yes, they're saying the Chargers have the best secondary in the NFL with a healthy James and the addition of Chris Harris Jr.  The Chargers ranked 8th in defensive DVOA in 2018 with a healthy James, which further proves my point as it relates to his impact.  And actually, PFF gave the Patriots the highest team coverage grade in 2019... guess who ranked 1st in defensive DVOA?  That's right, the Patriots.  

 

Further, 7 of the 10 teams that ranked in PFF's top 10 Secondary grades also ranked top 10 in pass defense DVOA.  That's not a coincidence.

 

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

There are just too many examples of winning and championship teams that were carried by their line play for me to agree that S > 1 tech.  Fletcher Cox and a dominant DL and OL group carrying a ho hum secondary and back up QB to a championship.  The Giants winning their championships wholly on the strength of line play.  Denver's great secondary play a function of a dominating front.  Carolina winning 17 games on the strength of their line and front play despite having anonymous receivers and having only one good DB and then Cam Newton falling off the face of the planet when the line deteriorates and Josh Norman looking mediocre playing behind a weak front.  The Rams winning 15 games based on their line and run game play despite sketchy secondary and WR/QB play.  The 49ers winning 15 based on their line play and their run game.  The dynamic plays out every level of the sport too, as Alabama has won 37 championships using the run game plus line play formula.  Even when you look at Troy Polamalu as the gold standard of elite all around playmaking at the safety position, it was James Harrison and Lamar Woodley and Casey Hampton and frickin Joey Porter being game wreckers, including getting the best of an all time great Seattle OL that got those Superbowl wins, not Troy Polamalu.  Hell Darnell Dockett almost carried that Arizona defense on his own in that game.  You can play dominant defense, get off the field, control the ball, and win games with a strong complimentary run game and a great DT as your best player and not a whole lot of quality lined up behind him.  I definitely don't think that's the case with a great safety as your best player and not much quality lined up in front of him.  They don't have the same level of impact.

 

First, Fletcher Cox is not a 1T.  Javon Hargrave is their current 1T and Timmy Jernigan was their 1T during that SB run.  Most of the other teams you mentioned did not have dominant 1Ts.  Second, there are just as many examples of teams winning Superbowls on the strength of their secondary: Patriots and Seahawks immediately come to mind - likely the two most dominant teams/franchises of the previous decade.

 

And speaking of the Patriots, Belichick consistently values having great players in his secondary over great pass rushers.  I would think the fact that one of the greatest coaches and defensive thinkers of all time agrees with PFF's philosophy should be a red flag for those who still want to hold on to the notion that a great pass rusher is more important than a great CB or safety.  The Ravens are also embracing this approach, and we know what Ed Reed did for them in the early 2000s.  Regardless, I'm talking about today's game, where passing is much more prevalent than it was in the days where Reed and Polamalu were winning championships.

 

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

It takes a player with superhuman instincts like Jamal Adams to make a big individual impact from that position.  And even when he's the best guy at the position in the league and is on a HoF track early in his career, he still got traded.  Could you see the Rams trading Aaron Donald after he made his first All Pro team?  The Eagles trading Fletcher Cox after he made his?  These guys are pretty much the least replaceable and most valuable non-quarterbacks in the NFL.

 

Does the name Khalil Mack ring a bell?  

 

The players you mentioned didn't force their way out like Adams did.  You think the Jets would have traded him if he wasn't constantly badmouthing the organization and forcing their hand?  It's obvious they wanted to keep him, but it became clear the relationship could not be repaired.

 

 

 

Question: are you a believer in EPA (Expected Points Added)?  It's completely objective, unlike PFF grade.  

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by HTTRDynasty

[Fresh8686]

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

And PFF cited discussion of their work on SNF as a basis of their credibility in that paper you linked (not mentioning that I'm pretty sure Chris Collinsworth works for them and was hired to promote their work)

 

Chris Collinsworth actually owns PFF.  When he cites their stuff on SNF, it's a strong case of self-interest.

[Malapropismic Depository]

So it looks like we may have a college football season this year.

At least in the ACC

[Skinsinparadise]

Cooley also thinks Ioannidis is our best D lineman

 

 

 

 

On 7/29/2020 at 10:53 PM, Malapropismic Depository said:

So it looks like we may have a college football season this year.

At least in the ACC

 

SEC, too

[Anselmheifer]

52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cooley also thinks Ioannidis is our best D lineman

 

SEC, too

That Ioannidis contract is a damned steal. Three years 21.7 million? Buckner is making 21 million, PER SEASON! If I were another team, Matt Ioannidis would be a super attractive trade option. I’d rather have Ioannidis and an extra 14 million of cap than Buckner, right? 
 

Ioannidis has also been super durable. Much, much more so than Jonathan Allen. If I were the skins, I’d be hoping for a huge year from Allen and I’d try to move him for a 1st. 
 

Also, Ioannidis rushing next to Chase Young is going to be sick. Imagine if we had an elite pass rushing SAM and could also blitz him from that side? That’s exactly what I’d do with Sweat sometimes. 
 

I think the draft next year will really drop off after around the 5th pick. Lawrence, Sewell, Fields, Chase, Parsons are going to be considered the blue chippers. The value in the teens should be fine. Guys like Devonta Smith, Alex Leatherwood, Cosmi, Rondale Moore May he available. I’d hate to be picking 7-12 next year and I think that’s our likely slotting. 
 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2021-nfl-mock-draft-4-round-farabaugh/

 

That draft is fascinating. Rondale Moore at 5. I think he actually could climb into the top 10. Clearly in a different league than Jalen Waddle. 
 

They also have Caleb Farley going at pick 8. I know nothing about Farley. Time to do more research 

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

That Ioannidis contract is a damned steal. Three years 21.7 million? Buckner is making 21 million, PER SEASON! If I were another team, Matt Ioannidis would be a super attractive trade option. I’d rather have Ioannidis and an extra 14 million of cap than Buckner, right? 
 

Ioannidis has also been super durable. Much, much more so than Jonathan Allen. If I were the skins, I’d be hoping for a huge year from Allen and I’d try to move him for a 1st. 
 

Also, Ioannidis rushing next to Chase Young is going to be sick. Imagine if we had an elite pass rushing SAM and could also blitz him from that side? That’s exactly what I’d do with Sweat sometimes. 
 

 

Good call on your end, I do think he might be the breakout star with help from Chase Young on the D line.

 

https://washingtonfootballwire.usatoday.com/2019/11/26/matt-ioannidis-all-underrated-team/

 

“ESPN’s automated analysis suggests Ioannidis has been double-teamed on 61.4% of his pass-rush attempts this season, which ranks among the 20 highest rates in football. Despite the attention, he has helped create eight sacks this season.”

It’s incredible to think opposing teams pay Ioannidis this much attention, especially on a line often featuring names like Daron Payne and Jonathan Allen.

While the strong play hasn’t paid off with wins given the problems elsewhere on the roster, the above is a testament to the full-blown breakout for Ioannidis.

54 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2021-nfl-mock-draft-4-round-farabaugh/

 

That draft is fascinating. Rondale Moore at 5. I think he actually could climb into the top 10. Clearly in a different league than Jalen Waddle. 
 

They also have Caleb Farley going at pick 8. I know nothing about Farley. Time to do more research 

 

Yeah I've been seeing some Rondale Moore hype, I haven't watched him yet but looking forward to it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Another mock draft and another one with us having the first pick in the draft

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/gallery/2021-nfl-mock-draft-3-rounds-trevor-lawrence-justin-fields-trey-lance/

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Another mock draft and another one with us having the first pick in the draft

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/gallery/2021-nfl-mock-draft-3-rounds-trevor-lawrence-justin-fields-trey-lance/

 

Just saying, analyst's and writers have an absolutely horrid track record of predicting the bottom of the NFL.  Remember how Miami was supposed to win 0 games and that was basically a lock?  They won 5 games.

 

I remember in 2015, the near unanimous selection for worst in the league and future #1 pick was us...and then we won 9 games and the division. 

 

And then in 2011, the Bengals had the same honor of projected #1 pick...and then made the playoffs.

 

As for the top of the NFL, everybody struggles as well.  Who would have picked the 49ers as the best NFC team?  Or the Eagles in 2017, or Falcons in 2016, or Panthers in 2015?

 

ESPN analysts usually pick playoff teams for the upcoming season at a 1/3rd success rate...which is awful.

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Just saying, analyst's and writers have an absolutely horrid track record of predicting the bottom of the NFL.  Remember how Miami was supposed to win 0 games and that was basically a lock?  They won 5 games.

 

 

'To an extent true.  But they were right last year about the Redskins, most from what I recall had them picking top 5, some had us right where we ended up at #2.  I argued they were wildly wrong then.  But they were right and i was wrong as for 2019.  

 

As for 2020, I guess will see.  I don't think for the big picture it would be bad if we had another high draft pick like that.  Some like to tout the 49ers getting Bosa and then taking off.  but they had multiple high picks before Bosa. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

'To an extent true.  But they were right last year about the Redskins, most from what I recall had them picking top 5, some had us right where we ended up at #2.  I argued they were wildly wrong then.  But they were right and i was wrong as for 2019. 

 

Yeah I was also wrong about 2019, but it's one of those in hindsight things.  I recall seeing reasons for the low pick would be Jay Gruden in a lame duck year.  Which seemed odd to me because I thought Jay would be given some leeway if Haskins showed development.

 

I guess the national writers had some insight that we didn't, such as how little Jay wanted to bother with a rookie QB.  So it was a true lame duck year for him, and then that lack of caring trickled down to the other coaches and that hurt the players.

 

Players now have talked about even though meetings have been over zoom, they feel like they're more worthwhile than meetings last year.

 

I guess we as fans were evaluating the roster and trying to put a blind eye and disregard the organizational/coaching disaster that was likely to unfold.

 

[Anselmheifer]

On 8/1/2020 at 1:15 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

Yeah I've been seeing some Rondale Moore hype, I haven't watched him yet but looking forward to it. 

 

 

Was listening to this. Not exactly ground breaking, but I'm not alone in my Rondale Moore love. He's Mike Renner's WR2. 

Apparently Walker Little is a netter athlete than I thought. Broke the SPARQ record for offensive linemen coming out of HS. Big fan of Alex Leatherwood, who he says is not a great athlete, but is so good in pass pro that he would have had him graded above Wills. 

 

He loves Kyle Pitts, who apparently was only 19 years old at the timing of the taping. Pat Freiermuth apparently looks like a man among boys, but isn't as fluid. However, to some degree he is a man among boys. He's a year older than a lot of the other prospects and will be 22 after his Junior year. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Big fan of Alex Leatherwood, who he says is not a great athlete, but is so good in pass pro that he would have had him graded above Wills.

For the life of me I couldn't remove the video on mobile.  Maybe he talks about it, but I haven't listened to it.

 

Leatherwood hype and calling him better than Wills is just trying to be excited about the next draft class.  In no way was Leatherwood better than Wills, and he didn't come out for a reason.  Sure his pass sets look more conventional than Wills, but less effective.  Leatherwood struggled vs speed last season.

 

I find it hard for someone to be "so good in pass pro" yet have an obvious weakness in pass pro.  That analyst has to be one of those "next year is always better" draft guys.

 

[Anselmheifer]

Cosmi vs LSU. Mike Renner specifically called out how bad Cosmi's tape was against K'Lavon. 

 

 

 

Some lowlights:

 

3:19 gets bull rushed straight back into the QB

4:00 Chaisson gets the corner relatively easily

4:30 gets walked back a bit

4:36 Beaten immediately off the snap. 

5:57 Wow. Gets waaay off balance and literally stumbles. 

 

I made it about half of the way through the tape and I think that's enough. Chaisson is a good, but not great player. Not very productive in college. I think Cosmi is ok as a tackle. In the 20's or 2nd round, I'd be happy to get him. But, I'd be surprised if Saahdiq Charles isn't better than Cosmi. I think even at pick 20, there would be a list of players that excite me more than Cosmi. 

48 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

For the life of me I couldn't remove the video on mobile.  Maybe he talks about it, but I haven't listened to it.

 

Leatherwood hype and calling him better than Wills is just trying to be excited about the next draft class.  In no way was Leatherwood better than Wills, and he didn't come out for a reason.  Sure his pass sets look more conventional than Wills, but less effective.  Leatherwood struggled vs speed last season.

 

I find it hard for someone to be "so good in pass pro" yet have an obvious weakness in pass pro.  That analyst has to be one of those "next year is always better" draft guys.

 

 

I don't love PFF, but Mike Renner is their head scout. Their main guy. I don't think he's a next year is always better guy. But I also don't think he's the be all and end all of scouting. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

How does Micah Parsons compare to ILBs like Luke Kuechly, Roquan Smith, and Devin White coming out? 

 

Drafting him might be overkill for our front 7 but if he's the next great ILB, we a great shot at having the next great defense with our guys up front and him in the mix. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Burgundy Yoda

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

How does Micah Parsons compare to ILBs like Luke Kuechly, Roquan Smith, and Devin White coming out? 

 

Drafting him might be overkill for our front 7 but if he's the next great ILB, we a great shot at having next great defense with our guys up front and him in the mix. 

 

I haven't looked at him yet, but when in doubt...just draft the elite talent.  Too much changes season to season to say it's overkill.

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Cosmi vs LSU. Mike Renner specifically called out how bad Cosmi's tape was against K'Lavon. 

 

I'm going to stick up for my guy Cosmi here, as I think there are some bad takes coming from the PFF guys.  It was Austin Gayle who talked about the LSU tape for Cosmi, not Renner.  Renner's complaint was that Cosmi is soft and understrength, which is questionable to me given that he's apparently a Walker Little fan, a player who is actually soft and understrength and has bad film.  I watched that LSU-Texas game live and it was the game where Cosmi first showed up on my radar--he popped.  I've since watched the cut ups a couple of times and, yes there were some bad snaps in that game from Cosmi, but he won that day against Chaisson and Lawrence.  Consider that he was a RS Sophomore blocking a Senior and a first round pick Junior on the eventual national championship team in the second game of the season, and his QB was having to hold onto the ball because the receivers were having a lot of trouble getting open on LSU's secondary, particularly in the first half.  Look at the snaps at 1:00, 3:10, 4:48, 5:10, 7:45, 7:57, 9:04, 11:41.  He's winning and, more than that, he's showing you NFL pass pro traits: mirroring real speed on the edge, recovering and anchoring after early losses, beating counters, winning handfights, picking up and planting the slot blitz, and stoning power.  Giving up a couple of pressures against a high level opponent is not a "nightmare" of a performance by any stretch of the imagination, Gayle is a dork who was speaking hyperbolically.  Cosmi was also strong in the run game that day.  They ran behind him on big downs and he stuck the key block on that second touchdown.  He's also a nasty cutblocker, which isn't common for a sophomore playing in like his 14th game.

 

Cosmi is anything but soft.  That guy will take you to the ground and scrap and he plays with zero fear for giving up his body.  That was a bad take by Renner.

I think Cosmi was already better than Saadhiq Charles last year, and I think he'll definitely be better than him by the time he enters the draft.  He's certainly more reliable too, I think he's played over 2,000 snaps already.  He's got some weaknesses.  He's a very tall player who doesn't seem to have particularly long arms or a really big lower half.  He's not particularly fast and his second level run blocking and pulling are uninspiring.  But he is a big, mauling, ZBS-style OT who honestly has fewer balance issues than some of the first round OTs from 2020, and his anchor strength is already good.  He is a similar type to Taylor Decker and Mike McGlinchey and this kind of OT prospect has translated to the NFL well.  If he stays healthy and plays like he did last year, he's going to be a first round pick.  He's a good fit for us at LT or RT, so it wouldn't necessarily be a choice between Saadhiq Charles and him.  I think he's got above average long term starter written all over him, and that he'd be a really good outcome for us if we're picking in the middle of the rounds.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 8/2/2020 at 6:08 PM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

 

 

I guess we as fans were evaluating the roster and trying to put a blind eye and disregard the organizational/coaching disaster that was likely to unfold.

 

 

I get the point (lot of drama among other things sunk the season fast)  but I recall many of those reports back then before the season, for the most part it wasn't though about them being a very talented team with alas Jay weighing them down.   There was some concern about the rookie match.  But heck Jay didn't play him anyway for the most part so it never played out.   Still that wasn't the main brush from what I recall for why most pundit types thought they'd struggle.  it was just another thing in the pile. 

 

Most of the national reporters, draft geek types didn't think much of the team's talent.  And still don't.  Rivera is here yet they still are considered by those same group as a really bad team.  Most draft geeks think its the worst team in the NFL.  Lower marks actually from them now versus 2019.   And there are some stragglers like Bucky Brooks but he hits 2021 as the time they rise, which I agree with, and he feels like he has to laugh and apologize when making the point because he gets the national perception of the team is low. 

 

I am not saying they are right or wrong.  Will see.  Personally I think they underestimate the talent on this team. I personally do think the talent on the team is below average.  And it will be a bad team.  But not as bad as the pundits think.  I also think while the talent is bad when you apples to apples compare them to the rest of the league.  Yet, they do have a lot of young talent where another strong off season will quickly propel them from bad to good in 2021.   To me its a team on the verge.

 

To me they are in a weird position, i don't think it's far off that they are one of the worst teams in the NFL in 2020.  Their weaknesses IMO are too glaring.  yet, heck I think they can be a SB contender in 2021 because they IMO are one aggressive off season from taking off. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Skinsinparadise