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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I agree that we need a CB more.  Not only that, but the positional value is better at CB than LB.  I just don’t see next year as a top CB year. If we are picking in the top 10, Parsons is a steal and I’m not sure there will be a CB Is feel the same about. 

 

Me neither, but that's more of a reflection of how I feel about Parsons.  He is a special, special player.  I haven't seen enough film of him yet to see a lot of bad to bring my expectations back down to Earth with him, so I'm in the pure fanboy phase with him right now.  The only other LBer prospects I've been this excited about in recent years were Roquan Smith in 2018 and Myles Jack in 2016.  Jack hasn't panned out like I thought he would, but his college film was a similar kind of spectacle to Parsons's.  I think Parsons has it all.  The top tier speed and movement skills paired with pure instincts and aggressive playmaking mentality.  I think he's head and shoulders better than Devin White/Bush and Kenneth Murray and Patrick Queen and Jordyn Brooks were.  I think he's better than Reuben Foster was too.  Better than Tremaine Edmunds.  Yeah, I think he's a Roquan/Mosley/Kuechly/Willis level prospect.  A multi-year All Pro potential.

 

The thought of having both him and Chase Young in our front after 20 years of not having any All Pro type talent on defense other than London Fletcher and Sean Taylor... that is truly exciting.  Unless we draft so high that we're in Penei Sewell territory, we've got to get Parsons if he's there.  Hope for a corner in the second in that scenario.  That said, one of the guys I've seen some hype on is Farley from VT.  He's a 6'2 man cover specialist with high end speed.  Bunch of SEC guys who are considered breakout candidates if we have a season--Campbell, Stokes and Daniel from Georgia, Surtain and Jobe from Bama, Mukuamu and Horn from South Carolina, and Marco Wilson from Florida.  Any one of them could blow up with a good year.  Mukuamu is the one I'm most interested in watching, outside of Shaun Wade.  He's huge and had a game for the ages in that upset win over Georgia.

 

I'd be very surprised if there was another Okudah this season though.  He was arguably the best CB prospect since Patrick Peterson, maybe Jalen Ramsey.  Most likely won't get another prospect on his level until Stingley is draft eligible.  And I agree that it would take a really special CB prospect to get me to forget about someone like Micah Parsons if he was available when we pick.  But what I'm hoping for is really good depth at the CB position so we can get someone good if we're picking later in the first, or trying to get someone in the second.

 

4 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

McQueen, what’s your current ranking of the OT’s? I don’t see a lot of people bring up leatherwood. 

 

I don't have one yet.  I'm kind of operating on a yes/needs work rubric this far out.  Sewell is a no-brainer of course.  I really like Sam Cosmi too, view him as a first round value.  Yes to Trey Adams.  Not sure about Leatherwood or Mayfield yet.  Need to see more with them.  Not a big fan of Walker Little based on his sophomore tape TBH, but that was a while ago.  He could make a leap as a senior.  Need to see more from Eichenberg before I'm sold too.  I haven't gotten far with the OTs yet.

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What do you guys think about Creed Humphrey and Wyatt Davis?  PFF loves Davis, and he looks good at first glance.  Seems like there is some hype on him that he might be the best IOL coming out of college since Quenton Nelson.  I'm a big fan of Humphrey but he really got dinged for his play down the stretch of last season, particularly in the conference championship game against Baylor.  To the point where he might need a great season to regain high round consideration.  Overreaction?

 

I'm pretty much sold on Trey Smith as a first round guard prospect/option at right tackle.  Humphrey and Davis could be two more first round caliber IOLs.  If Scherff walks, we're badly going to need a talent infusion on the OL anywhere we can get it.  Makes sense to look at these guys.

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On 7/3/2020 at 8:53 AM, stevemcqueen1 said:

What do you guys think about Creed Humphrey and Wyatt Davis?  PFF loves Davis, and he looks good at first glance.  Seems like there is some hype on him that he might be the best IOL coming out of college since Quenton Nelson.  I'm a big fan of Humphrey but he really got dinged for his play down the stretch of last season, particularly in the conference championship game against Baylor.  To the point where he might need a great season to regain high round consideration.  Overreaction?

 

I'm pretty much sold on Trey Smith as a first round guard prospect/option at right tackle.  Humphrey and Davis could be two more first round caliber IOLs.  If Scherff walks, we're badly going to need a talent infusion on the OL anywhere we can get it.  Makes sense to look at these guys.

 

I really like what I’ve seen from Wyatt Davis so far. His explosion, short area burst, and aggression are all on display in the run game and he sets a strong anchor in the pass game. I didn’t see any real loss in his sets against Clemson. He actually had worse trouble with Michigan state from what I saw and that was only minimal and didn’t lead to much pressure anyways IIRC. I would love to have him on our team.  

 

Im kind of meh on Creed Humphrey. I mean he’s good and I want to like him more after all I’ve heard about him and what he does and maybe I’m just missing the nuances of his position, but I see some stuff that gives me pause. I wish he was more of a mauler and worked his hands to stiffen and raise his opponents leverage when anchoring. The dude gives up too many steps before he anchors and is susceptible to inside speed shooting his gap. Which is weird, because he can pull relatively well, but he still is a bit of a plodder. I guess he’s not as fast twitch as I’d like for him to be. 

 

My takes are better after ive gotten a larger sample size of IOL under my belt, so take these with a grain of salt. 

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is this okay for no 2020 draft theories?

 

If no season and we have the second pick in the draft again, do you go for Trevor Lawrence?

 

Second. if there is no season, an they don't just go with the same order, perhaps do three lotteries. 1-10. 11-20, 21-32

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On 7/2/2020 at 8:17 PM, stevemcqueen1 said:

I'd be very surprised if there was another Okudah this season though.  He was arguably the best CB prospect since Patrick Peterson, maybe Jalen Ramsey.  Most likely won't get another prospect on his level until Stingley is draft eligible.  And I agree that it would take a really special CB prospect to get me to forget about someone like Micah Parsons if he was available when we pick.  But what I'm hoping for is really good depth at the CB position so we can get someone good if we're picking later in the first, or trying to get someone in the second.

 

I agree with this. Someone said, and I agree, that Okudah reminds me a lot of Champ Bailey as an athlete. I think I would Take Okudah at 3 in next year's draft too. One is Lawrence, two is Sewell, three Okudah. And that could change. Okudah could wind up being the best player in his draft class, but I hope not!

 

Regarding Parsons, I think most people are in agreement about his talent. For me, he's 3, behind Sewell. I don't have as much confidence in Ja'Marr Chase as some people. He was playing in the perfect circumstance. best QB. Tons of other offensive talent. Great system. The miss rate on apparently elite WR's is still pretty high. I honestly thought CJ Henderson owned him. Chase had a long touchdown against Henderson, but he came open on a pick play and beyond that, he couldn't get separation. Maybe everybody is right about how good Ja'Marr Chase is, but I think there is more risk there. 

 

Thinking about Parsons got me looking harder at Dylan Moses. I watched a couple of complete game cut ups. And you have to keep in mind, he's relatively green here, but also has two good knees. 

 

 

 

 

Moses is no Micah Parsons. He runs a great 40 and is strong in the weight room, but he's built like a safety. So much smaller looking that Sean Taylor on the football field. I'm not sure Micah Parsons is 6'3" and 245, as he's listed, but Moses looks skinny. And...he looks invisible against the run. No instincts against the run. Almost no impact against the run. Also, surprisingly impotent as a blitzer. Micah Parsons is a stud on the blitz. Moses, despite his physical attributes, much less than you'd expect. Now, Moses did play a lot of coverage. It looked like Alabama mostly used him dropping into shallow and deep zones, and Moses looked fluid and good in this area. He also looked great in glimpses manning up RB's and TE's. But those were glimpses. if there is no 2020 season, I wouldn't take Moses before our 2nd, or maybe even 3rd round pick. He is disappointing on tape. 

 

 

 

On 7/3/2020 at 8:44 AM, stevemcqueen1 said:

I said Trey Adams when I meant Trey Smith.  Smith is the one I like.  I'm having a hell of a time keeping their names straight.

 

 

This actually did confuse me, since you already said that Chase Young exposed Trey Adams as a guy who wasn't an elite NFL prospect.

 

On 7/3/2020 at 8:53 AM, stevemcqueen1 said:

What do you guys think about Creed Humphrey and Wyatt Davis?  PFF loves Davis, and he looks good at first glance.  Seems like there is some hype on him that he might be the best IOL coming out of college since Quenton Nelson.  I'm a big fan of Humphrey but he really got dinged for his play down the stretch of last season, particularly in the conference championship game against Baylor.  To the point where he might need a great season to regain high round consideration.  Overreaction?

 

I'm pretty much sold on Trey Smith as a first round guard prospect/option at right tackle.  Humphrey and Davis could be two more first round caliber IOLs.  If Scherff walks, we're badly going to need a talent infusion on the OL anywhere we can get it.  Makes sense to look at these guys.

 

Regarding Creed Humphrey, I wouldn't hate it in a trade up back into the 1st, but I wouldn't love it. I think he's really good, but I'm not sure how much a HOF center moves the needle vs a HOF receiver or LT. How much does that buy you over a guy like Roullier? Creed had a 600lb squat and 400lb bench. In high school. Lincoln Riley said he was the most talented player on the team. Over Kyler Murray. Putting that next to Scherff could be deadly. But, I've really gotten more interested in draft resource allocation and I'm not sure we are in a place where we are best grabbing a center in the 1st. I also am not confident enough in Scherff's ability to stay healthy to think we should be using him as a building block, and we do have Roullier, who is adequate. 

When we missed on Ryan Kelly in the 2016 NFL draft, it made a little sense to me. I actually do like drafting to enhance team strength. We had Kirk Cousins, Pierre Garcon, DeSean Jackson, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, Morgan Moses, and Brandon Scherff. Kelly completes that line, and makes us really good on offense. That defensive roster was gagful though. If you want to feel better about our current defense, listen to the starters on our 2015 defense. 


Chris Baker-LDE        Terrence Knighton-NT   Jason Hatcher-RDE

Trent Murphy LOLB   Keenan Robinson-ILB    Perry Riley-ILB      Ryan Kerrigan OLB

CB-Baushad Breeland CB   Will Blackmon-CB  Trent Robinson-SS  Dashon Goldson-FS

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2015_roster.htm

 

In any case, as much as we could use interior OL help, we actually are at least league average there. If we are talking team deficiencies, give me secondary, OT, TE, and another outside WR. And in terms of resource allocation, I wouldn't put a ton into interior OL or RB. Just draft those guys every year in the middle rounds and sign FA as needed. We could still really use an LT1 and a WR2 and a TE1. 

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USC and Texas both have a ton of rising junior talent in their secondaries.  Big seasons could see a handful of those big 2018 recruits jump into first round consideration.

 

USC also has a junior DT who is really really good if he can keep himself from getting tossed from games or penalized for dirty play.  They're a team in the rise.  A sneaky playoff pick if we get a season.

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Let’s say there IS an NFL season, and college football season...what do you guys think the chances are that we are in position to land Trevor Lawrence in the draft, and if we’re top 5, what do you guys think the probability is that we move up for him?

 

of course, it would all depend on WHY we’re in top 5 (did haskins look like absolute ****, was it just that Rivera and Co. were in their first years trying to fix an absolute ****show, ETC. so, maybe it’s too early to answer fully.

 

 

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8 hours ago, volsmet said:

A) why the hell would we have the worst odds at the super bowl 

 

B ) if we finish dead last then we’re absolutely drafting a QB unless its because that defensive front falls completely flat on their faces. If that’s the case then we trade out of number 1 for a bounty for whomever wants Trevor. If we’re dead last with the talent we’ve amassed, then a LT ain’t gonna fix that.

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6 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Let’s say there IS an NFL season, and college football season...what do you guys think the chances are that we are in position to land Trevor Lawrence in the draft, and if we’re top 5, what do you guys think the probability is that we move up for him?

 

of course, it would all depend on WHY we’re in top 5 (did haskins look like absolute ****, was it just that Rivera and Co. were in their first years trying to fix an absolute ****show, ETC. so, maybe it’s too early to answer fully.

 

 

 

Very low chance we're in position for Lawrence without trading up. Even if Haskins doesn't play well, our defense alone will probably be good enough to get us to enough wins vs bad teams to not have the #1 pick. And barring something crazy like career ending injury (unlikely but anything is possible), him deciding for some reason to go back for his senior year (even more unlikely), or him suddenly becoming absolute trash (least likely), Lawrence is going #1 overall.

 

And I think there's probably a 99% chance that whatever team is picking #1 will take him. The only way you pass on a QB prospect like that is if you already have a star QB, and if you already have a star QB there's almost zero chance you're picking #1 overall.

 

If someone DID have the #1 pick and was willing to trade back, the cost would probably be absolutely insane because plenty of teams would be competing to move up.

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On 7/7/2020 at 4:14 AM, PartyPosse said:

A) why the hell would we have the worst odds at the super bowl 

 

B ) if we finish dead last then we’re absolutely drafting a QB unless its because that defensive front falls completely flat on their faces. If that’s the case then we trade out of number 1 for a bounty for whomever wants Trevor. If we’re dead last with the talent we’ve amassed, then a LT ain’t gonna fix that.

 

We weren't as bad a team as we looked last year. At the end of the year, we were in the Chase Bowl. Our entire secondary was on the bench. Literally. The entire secondary. We didn't do much in FA. Coaching alone would probably have doubled out win total last year. I fully expect Haskins to look at least mediocre. And for our offense to look at least mediocre. JDR will have our defense playing. I think five or six wins is our worst case scenario. We aren't going to be In Sewell/Lawrence territory. I could easily see us having pick 12-15, and I'm fine with it. That's probably right in range to grab a guy like Devonta Smith, Kyle Pitts, Pat Freiermuth, Rondale Moore, or an OT such as Leatherwood or Cosmi. It honestly would hit us harder in the later rounds. It's so great to have the 2nd pick in the 2nd/3rd/4th rounds. You have your pick of guys that fell further than expected and still have elite traits. 

 

Speaking of Pat Freiermuth, he doesn't look like a baby Gronk to me. I'm not buying that he's a legit 6'5" and 256. He looks way smaller than Chase Young. He is a confirmed 4.7 guy, but does have good movement skills. Has a very good feel for the game. Very good hands. They line him up as in in line TE a lot less than I thought. He's frequently lined up off the line of scrimmage as an H-back or slot WR. Sometimes lines up at outside WR. Often runs routes off motion out of the backfield. Watch the video and tell me who he reminds you of...

 

 

 

Honestly, he reminds me a little of Chris Cooley. I think he's about that size/build. Slightly faster, but not by a mile. Great hands. Similar versatility. I could see Freiermuth having that kind of very good, but not elite career on a Washington team with Haskins, Sims, McLaurin. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 7/6/2020 at 8:02 PM, volsmet said:

 

If I was picking at 10 or 11, I'd trade up to 3 for Sewell or 5 or 6 for Micah Parsons. I think Sewell is a HOF type guy and Parsons is going to make a ton of pro bowls and maybe a few all pro teams. 

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1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

If I was picking at 10 or 11, I'd trade up to 3 for Sewell or 5 or 6 for Micah Parsons. I think Sewell is a HOF type guy and Parsons is going to make a ton of pro bowls and maybe a few all pro teams. 

Parsons in this defense would be wild. I'd probably like our young D more than any other in the league if we were able to grab him. 

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I am as into Sewell as I was into Chase Young.  Bonafide rock star player -- doesn't require much thinking about it.

 

I thought I liked Waddle more than most.  Apparently, not.  Third pick in the draft -- that's a bit rich for me. 

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2021-nfl-mock-draft-4-round-farabaugh/

 

Round One

1) Jacksonville Jaguars: Trevor Lawrence, QB Clemson

This one is pretty self-explanatory. Trevor Lawrence has every physical tool to be one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL at some point in his career. With a splendid arm, smooth mechanics, high-end athleticism, and a delightful mental process, Lawrence is an outstanding prospect.

Is he perfect? No, his accuracy is a bit spotty, as PFN analyst Dalton Miller’s charting revealed, but still, for the Jaguars have been desperate for a franchise quarterback. This pick seems like a slam dunk.

2) Washington Redskins: Penei Sewell, OT Oregon

The term ‘generational’ gets thrown around a lot and is, at this point, vapid and hackneyed at best. However, if there was one guy in this class to use this term for, Sewell might be that guy. He’s a tackle that moves like a tight end, has elite functional strength, fleet footwork, and precise hands. With Trent Williams gone, Washington can not afford to pass up on a guy like Sewell to protect Dwayne Haskins.

3) Cincinnati Bengals: Jaylen Waddle, WR Alabama

Speed just kills, man. The Bengals know they are a little weak at wide receiver. A.J. Green’s future with the team is anything but certain and John Ross has not manifested into anything significant yet. So, they grab the dynamic and speedy Jaylen Waddle.

Waddle is a bit of a surprise here, but he sets himself apart by showcasing an elite ability to dictate what a defense does. After the catch, Waddle is dangerous, shifty, and elusive. There is real potential for this to happen here, even if the Bengals ideally would trade out of this spot to grab Waddle a little bit further down.

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Sewell was even more eye popping than Chase Young last season.  It's hard to jump off the screen as an OT and he did.  I think he was the second best player in the country behind Burrow last year, and I think we are seeing an Orlando Pace caliber player and prospect in him.  He is even more dominant than Quentin Nelson was.

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1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Sewell was even more eye popping than Chase Young last season.  It's hard to jump off the screen as an OT and he did.  I think he was the second best player in the country behind Burrow last year, and I think we are seeing an Orlando Pace caliber player and prospect in him.  He is even more dominant than Quentin Nelson was.

 

Agree.  As wild as it may sound I think he'd be the best LT we ever had.  He's an elite run blocker and very good pass blocker. 

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6 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Sewell was even more eye popping than Chase Young last season.  It's hard to jump off the screen as an OT and he did.  I think he was the second best player in the country behind Burrow last year, and I think we are seeing an Orlando Pace caliber player and prospect in him.  He is even more dominant than Quentin Nelson was.


SIP/McQueen, I agree about Sewell as a prospect. And I think he would not only be the best LT we’ve ever had, but would be that for most teams in the league. 
 

I don’t see any way we are in a position to draft him, if there’s a season. Ron Rivera has never won less than 6 games. We have a stud DL and what should be, pessimistically, an above average defense. We have a WR1. This year, we go into the season with an impact a lot receiver and a defined QB1. We aren’t winning less than 5 games. 
 

The only way that happens is if we supper a ton of injuries on offense. Steve Sims and Terry McLaurin both go down. Or, the entire OL goes down. Or our top 2 QB’s. 
 

I think Penei Sewell, JaMar Chase and Micah Parsons all go before our pick. And actually, I think that’s ideal. If Haskins and McLaurin and  Sims and the D look great, and we win 8 or 9 games and look close to a break through, that’s way better than the alternative. 
 

And, there will be a ton of guys with value available between picks 10-15. Imagine Devonta Smith, for instance, across from McLaurin. 
 

 

All of that being said, I think that both Sewell and Parsons are moving up for. Sewell is a HOF talent. If it takes two firsts to go get him, do it. 

 

 

 

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On 7/9/2020 at 5:28 PM, Anselmheifer said:

We weren't as bad a team as we looked last year. At the end of the year, we were in the Chase Bowl. Our entire secondary was on the bench. Literally. The entire secondary. We didn't do much in FA. Coaching alone would probably have doubled out win total last year. I fully expect Haskins to look at least mediocre. And for our offense to look at least mediocre. JDR will have our defense playing. I think five or six wins is our worst case scenario. We aren't going to be In Sewell/Lawrence territory. I could easily see us having pick 12-15, and I'm fine with it.

 

I tend to agree with you, but an alarming consensus among outside observers about the quality of various parts of our roster is giving me doubts.  I already know how bad our secondary is, and I'm kind of banking on a scheme change + high level DL play to mask the flaws in the secondary and get our DBs to bounce back or break out.  Beyond that, pretty much everyone is projecting us to have the worst group of offensive skill players, and the room is probably right.  I do like Gandy-Golden, but between the messed up rookie offseason and the chief weakness in his game was that he needed to get so much stronger and more physical to make the jump to the NFL, there is no way he's going be ready to play a ton of good snaps in 2020.  Losing Harmon to injury torpedoed the only promising depth we had.  Hell, he probably have played starter's snaps.  We're skeletal thin and an injury to McLaurin would leave us with no traditional outside receivers.  We'll be trying to cobble something together out of hybrid players who don't have the route running skills to really thrive in that role like Gibson and Isaiah Wright, or a perennial end of bench/practice squad guy like Cam Sims.  I'm not a big Cam Sims fan at all, I think it's a testament to how weak we are at WR that we haven't been able to move on from him for better options.  TE is obviously bad too, but Moss and Thomas the Alabama kid are at least intriguing bodies who could move up the depth chart in what should be a totally open competition.

 

It feels like the only way we won't end up bottom of the league with this group is if Guice has a major break out season and Haskins steps up big time and carries everyone.  Highly doubt Haskins is ready to do that, and it's not comfortable placing hope in Guice at this point.

 

And I just read this article from PFF that predicts our OL to be 29th in the league this season: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-units-entering-the-2020-nfl-season

 



29. Washington

Washington got solid play across the line last season, finishing 13th in our final rankings. With Trent Williams absent, the team signed veteran Donald Penn in a move that paid off relatively well. Penn finished the campaign with a 64.2 overall grade that ranked 50th among players at the position.

This season, it will be a battle between veteran swing tackle Cornelius Lucas and third-round rookie Saahdiq Charles. Lucas is a 6-foot-9 monster who has graded above the league average on 999 career pass-blocking snaps, though his size makes it a challenge to play low in the run game or get to the second level. Charles, meanwhile, may not be ready to play right away, as he never graded above 70.0 overall in college, and he gave up over 20 pressures in each of the last three years. The one other name to throw in the mix is 2018 third-rounder Geron Christian Sr., who has only played 189 snaps in his career and notably earned a 63.0 grade in limited time last season.

At right tackle, Morgan Moses has been a viable starter, though his highest-graded years came in 2015 and 2016. Last season, however, his 65.2 overall grade ranked 43rd among tackles.

On the inside, Wes Schweitzer comes over from Atlanta to compete at left guard, though he’s coming off a career-low 56.4 overall grade. Right guard Brandon Scherff is the best lineman on the team, and he’s in the last year of his rookie contract. Scherff had the 11th-best overall grade among guards last season, at 75.0 overall, a number that is right in line with the rest of his career.

At center, Chase Roullier also enters the final year of his rookie deal, and he experienced the classic Year 3 spike last season. Roullier posted career highs in overall grade (69.3) and run-blocking grade (65.4), and he finished with the No. 15 grade among centers.

For Washington to rank in the top 15 once again, they need someone to emerge at left tackle to go with a return to form for both Schweitzer and Moses.

 

Some mixed messaging in that--we finished shockingly well last season despite having a similar lack of talent, and that solid play didn't translate to wins at all.  Let it never be said that Bill Callahan isn't a great OL coach though.  But I can't necessarily argue to hard against the pessimistic projection for this season.  The left side is really sketchy and the right side doesn't truly compare to the talent level of the top lines on that list, and our depth isn't enviable and full of young, high upside players like many of the other lines on that list.  Saahdiq Charles is probably the only young guy on our line that other teams would want, and he's not a can't miss guy.

 

It's concerning that we seem to be heading in the wrong direction in these kinds of rankings when we need to be going the other way after drafting a young QB in the first round in 2019.  Denver, Arizona, and New York are all headed that way in these kinds of projections, and we're stuck down at the bottom with Jacksonville.  Bad line, one good receiver, and a talented LSU runningback we're not sure about.

 

You can see how we might finish picking top five again.  Top ten wouldn't be shocking either.  I think picking in the teens would actually be beating the odds and showing real and tangible signs of progress--a testament to Haskins's growth and Rivera's good coaching.

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