2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Fresh8686]

Man St. Juste had a nice PBU at the end of the 1st quarter. He’s got great length and might be worth a look in the 4th maybe. He’s done well for himself during practice and the game. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Fresh8686

[skinny21]

Realistically, I don’t see us landing a higher tier qb this year.  If that’s the case, (and echoing something I just posted in the FA thread) I like the idea of chasing a talented MLB in FA, and then look at maybe fullback (and/or a good run blocking T/G early) and one of the top backs (Najee) in the draft.  See what we can do with a stout front 7 and hopefully pretty dangerous run game.  Not sure this fits with Turner’s style though...

[DWinzit]

5 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Realistically, I don’t see us landing a higher tier qb this year.  If that’s the case, (and echoing something I just posted in the FA thread) I like the idea of chasing a talented MLB in FA, and then look at maybe fullback (and/or a good run blocking T/G early) and one of the top backs (Najee) in the draft.  See what we can do with a stout front 7 and hopefully pretty dangerous run game.  Not sure this fits with Turner’s style though...

Wait, don't extremely over pay for an old eh QB, or give away years of picks to put all your eggs in one basket of a unproven rookie with little experience or a disgruntled QB forcing the team he signed a 4 year deal 5 months ago?

 

Fill in all those roster holes and let on of the top defenses improve and do their thing while vastly improving the offensive weapons.

 

Smells to logical thinking.........What are you NUTS?

[DWinzit]

Senior Bowl week enforced that the WR and DB class are deep! 

 

Even with yesterdays wind and so so QB play hampering the passing game receivers and DB's still shined

 

I hope WFT takes advantage of this strength and depth by taking at least one WR and one DB by the end of the 3rd round and possibly hit them again late in the draft.

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Senior Bowl week enforced that the WR and DB class are deep! 

 

Even with yesterdays wind and so so QB play hampering the passing game receivers and DB's still shined

 

I hope WFT takes advantage of this strength and depth by taking at least one WR and one DB by the end of the 3rd round and possibly hit them again late in the draft.

I think LB is fairly deep too... but it depends on how fast they go off the board and who is taking them.

 

I’m not sure Browning fits well with us, but he’s going to be getting a lot of looks for his NC game performance and rush ability. 
 

JOK probably isn’t a great fit for our 4-2 look as an inside guy (though he’d be fun to have running around).

 

Collins, Cox, Bolton, Werner, Britt are all guys that fit the mold of what we want. Rice... Surratt as more of a dev guy fits. 

I don’t know that the LB class is actually deep in a general sense but I think it’s pretty deep RE:WFT’s needs.

[seantaylor=god]

I hope we have an opportunity to trade out of the first to pick up more picks and/or a first rounder next year. If we can’t find our QB this year, which looks likely, we have got to get some ammo for next year. We need to find a QB if Heineke/Allen get hurt again or show themselves to be spot starters/fool’s gold (Colt McCoy or Case Keenum).

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Wait, don't extremely over pay for an old eh QB, or give away years of picks to put all your eggs in one basket of a unproven rookie with little experience or a disgruntled QB forcing the team he signed a 4 year deal 5 months ago?

 

Fill in all those roster holes and let on of the top defenses improve and do their thing while vastly improving the offensive weapons.

 

Smells to logical thinking.........What are you NUTS?

Lol.  Specifically though, I’m talking about the idea of avoiding paying a receiver.  The idea being that 1) we have time to bring along a rookie (or multiple rookies) without the pressure of trying to provide weapons to a good qb and 2) we focus on the areas less impacted by qb play (D and run game).  Of course, improving the team (as you point out) both strengthens the foundation to allow a young qb to develop - if/whenever we find one - but also improves our chances of winning despite (likely) lackluster qb play, and thereby improves our chances of landing FAs down the road (including a qb).

Paying a higher tier receiver may or may not help our pass game much, IMO, but it would impact how much money we can throw at other needs and what our cap looks like down the road when we have our biggest re-signings to worry about.

RR seems to really want to find/address the qb spot though.  Not sure he’ll force the issue too much, but that remains to be seen.  Seeing them shoot for Cooper last year, but then not overpay for a lesser receiver, gives me some hope on that front.

[DWinzit]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think LB is fairly deep too... but it depends on how fast they go off the board and who is taking them.

 

I’m not sure Browning fits well with us, but he’s going to be getting a lot of looks for his NC game performance and rush ability. 
 

JOK probably isn’t a great fit for our 4-2 look as an inside guy (though he’d be fun to have running around).

 

Collins, Cox, Bolton, Werner, Britt are all guys that fit the mold of what we want. Rice... Surratt as more of a dev guy fits. 

I don’t know that the LB class is actually deep in a general sense but I think it’s pretty deep RE:WFT’s needs.

 

I really like Collins, Cox and Bolton. They all bring different things to the table but would love any one of them in the order listed.

 

They could all be ranked between our 1st and 2nd round picks, hope they are not all gone by the middle of the second round. 

 

Werner and Britt top the next tier for me and worry about them being on the field in passing downs due to speed limitations ( I have slight concern with Bolton on the also)

 

Britt had a really nice game yesterday other than getting run over by new my fav FB Mason 😄 He is a field general and has good instincts. I have moved Britt ahead of Werner.

 

 

[DWinzit]

18 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Lol.  Specifically though, I’m talking about the idea of avoiding paying a receiver.  The idea being that 1) we have time to bring along a rookie (or multiple rookies) without the pressure of trying to provide weapons to a good qb and 2) we focus on the areas less impacted by qb play (D and run game).  Of course, improving the team (as you point out) both strengthens the foundation to allow a young qb to develop - if/whenever we find one - but also improves our chances of winning despite (likely) lackluster qb play, and thereby improves our chances of landing FAs down the road (including a qb).

Paying a higher tier receiver may or may not help our pass game much, IMO, but it would impact how much money we can throw at other needs and what our cap looks like down the road when we have our biggest re-signings to worry about.

RR seems to really want to find/address the qb spot though.  Not sure he’ll force the issue too much, but that remains to be seen.  Seeing them shoot for Cooper last year, but then not overpay for a lesser receiver, gives me some hope on that front.

I am in agreement with on the high priced WR's regardless of the QB decision. 

 

My thought is to bring in a cheaper crafty vet that still has game to a 2-3 year less expensive contract...Marvin Jones tpe would be my first look. Kind of like Henry Ellard from days of old. Great example for young receivers and QB's to learn from.

 

Then draft a receiver that can play outside or slot in the first 3 rounds. The draft offers a fair share of these players this years. Then another WR in the later rounds.

 

They also need to find another TE. Unfortunately there is not much in FA. Thankfully there are some in the draft. I would love Freiermuth or Jordan in the 2nd but there are other decent ones over the next 3 rounds.

 

That's my cheaper plan to infuse youth, experience and elevate out receiving unit without burning up the cap.

[KDawg]

Stats never tell the whole story... still, I was surprised at these despite me liking all three of these dudes how close the numbers were...

 

Of course there are other factors involved that make numbers alone to be a poor indicator of next level performance... and rushing isn’t shown here...

 

But let’s play “NAME THAT QB!”

 

 

All three are draft prospects in this draft

[DWinzit]

Pretty sure 2 is Trevor Lawrence.

Regarding the first one, I don't think any of the top guys played 5 years so I am going your boy as a guess Shane Bouchele (sp) or Monds

no idea for 3...Book?

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Pretty sure 2 is Trevor Lawrence.

Regarding the first one, I don't think any of the top guys played 5 years so I am going your boy as a guess Shane Bouchele (sp) or Monds

no idea for 3...Book?

 

Almost nailed it.

 

1) Shane Buechele

2) Trevor Lawrence

3) Zach Wilson

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Almost nailed it.

 

1) Shane Buechele

2) Trevor Lawrence

3) Zach Wilson

I had a feeling you would be throwing in your boy

More experience than I realized. Makes me more intrigued in him. I really know little about him at this point.

I should have known no to Book...33 TD's this year?? lol

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by DWinzit

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

I had a feeling you would be throwing in your boy

I should have known no to Book...33 TD's this year?? lol

I was surprised Buechele was as productive as he was. I do my evals on film. I look at stats as an aside later when I’m bored or curious. Was pretty surprised he was that close to those two guys statistically. With less weapons.

 

Also less polish. Not saying he’s them. But that’s a pretty strong stat line. 

[Going Commando]

The Athletic ran an article about the high costs of raising a blue chip QB prospect.  Bryce Young's dad estimated that it cost 16k a year just on private coaching and camps and 7 on 7 fees.  That's before you factor in the costs of private school tuition if that's the best program in your area + the cost of doing all of the college visits and the camps the college programs run to try and get prospects in the door.

 

Explains why so many NFL bound QB prospects are rich kids.  You're looking at developmental costs that can exceed the value of a college scholarship.

[IrepDC]

On 1/30/2021 at 6:46 PM, DWinzit said:

I agree. When drafting mid to late first round often interior OL are BPA. I have been a big fan of Vera-Tucker, Wyatt Davis and Brown in that order. I doubt Vera-Davis is there at 19. The others probably will be there. I am worried about Davis's knee. He has prior history with it and hurt in the championship and I have not heard anything on it since. TBH, Brown looked even heavier today than he has. I am worried about his weight. Meinerz the unknown looked like a freaking first rounder in the practices

 

You and I agree on the value of interior OL in the mid first. The top players are usually still going to be there. I am still looking for an opportunity to grab one of the top 2 LBs(moving up a few picks), but if they're gone, the best Guard at 19 would be an immediate impact. Different teams will likely have different players rated as their top player this year. Davis has potential, but the injury history has to be checked. Brown did look a bit out of shape to me at the Senior Bowl. Would he fit in our scheme? We seem to go for OL who can move vs straight maulers like Brown so maybe he's not a top guy on our board. I do think one of our top 2 will be there at 19. There are going to be a few positions with the top rated players still there.

Edited February 1, 2021 by IrepDC

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The Athletic ran an article about the high costs of raising a blue chip QB prospect.  Bryce Young's dad estimated that it cost 16k a year just on private coaching and camps and 7 on 7 fees.  That's before you factor in the costs of private school tuition if that's the best program in your area + the cost of doing all of the college visits and the camps the college programs run to try and get prospects in the door.

 

Explains why so many NFL bound QB prospects are rich kids.  You're looking at developmental costs that can exceed the value of a college scholarship.

I have thought about this and have strongly considered a full time move to coaching quarterbacks at a much more affordable rate that allows me to make a good living but still give these kids an Avenue.

 

I’d need to refine my skill set at the QB position, though, as far as some mechanics and ways to teach them. 
 

It’s only one small area of the country and I doubt it helps make a large dent in things... but all kids who are serious about it deserve a chance.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

For the Collegiate experts:

How much of a project is Trey Lance?

 

50% completion percentage seems like a massive project to get to 62-70%. Only 1 year of solid production. How long do you think it takes him to get to acceptable passing levels?

Would not be shocked at all if he is there at 19.

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

For the Collegiate experts:

How much of a project is Trey Lance?

 

50% completion percentage seems like a massive project to get to 62-70%. Only 1 year of solid production. How long do you think it takes him to get to acceptable passing levels?

Would not be shocked at all if he is there at 19.

Depends on him. Took Allen 3 years but allowed his team to be competitive in that time frame as well due to his legs. 
 

He could be longer. Could be shorter. Could be never. Could be immediate. I’d say 2-3 years is a fair estimate.

[Going Commando]

49 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I have thought about this and have strongly considered a full time move to coaching quarterbacks at a much more affordable rate that allows me to make a good living but still give these kids an Avenue.

 

I’d need to refine my skill set at the QB position, though, as far as some mechanics and ways to teach them. 
 

It’s only one small area of the country and I doubt it helps make a large dent in things... but all kids who are serious about it deserve a chance.

 

At the end of the article, they said that there is more availability now than there used to be 5-10 years ago.  In certain areas like Atlanta and Southern California, there is a saturation of private QB coaching so that there are cheaper options, and also QB gurus who are trying to establish a reputation for themselves will work with kids who are talented on scholarship.  It's not just QB skills coaching that these kids get, but their parents will also pay for strength and conditioning coaching, speed and agility coaching, and "mental coaching" whatever that is.  It's a lot.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

At the end of the article, they said that there is more availability now than there used to be 5-10 years ago.  In certain areas like Atlanta and Southern California, there is a saturation of private QB coaching so that there are cheaper options, and also QB gurus who are trying to establish a reputation for themselves will work with kids who are talented on scholarship.  It's not just QB skills coaching that these kids get, but their parents will also pay for strength and conditioning coaching, speed and agility coaching, and "mental coaching" whatever that is.  It's a lot.

Yeah I already have background in S&C and the mental coaching aspect. Any time you train an athlete in a sport is comes through a holistic approach. Not just a positional role. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Depends on him. Took Allen 3 years but allowed his team to be competitive in that time frame as well due to his legs. 
 

He could be longer. Could be shorter. Could be never. Could be immediate. I’d say 2-3 years is a fair estimate.

Yeah figured as much..Thanks for the take..
I’d consider it at 19, you’d have to right, if you are willing to wait. Don’t think I’d move up to get him, unless I was sold he’d be on the lesser end of the time scale. Don’t know a ton about him personally other then he can throw a deep ball and can run the hell out of it.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, IrepDC said:

You and I agree on the value of interior OL in the mid first. The top players are usually still going to be there. I am still looking for an opportunity to grab one of the top 2 LBs(moving up a few picks), but if they're gone, the best Guard at 19 would be an immediate impact. Different teams will likely have different players rated as their top player this year. Davis has potential, but the injury history has to be checked. Brown did look a bit out of shape to me at the Senior Bowl. Would he fit in our scheme? We seem to go for OL who can move vs straight maulers like Brown so maybe he's not a top guy on our board. I do think one of our top 2 will be there at 19. There are going to be a few positions with the top rated players still there.

Yeah, one of the top ILBs would be a nice pickup for us, and if that’s not doable, our run game needs help.  Gibson looked impressive (particularly as he got more comfortable), but our ground game was pretty lackluster, though not as bad as the passing game of course.  I’ve been looking more so at improving our LT play over G (Sweitzer/Charles, and even Martin at least give us options/potential there) - Lucas surprised me as a pass blocker, but seemed to struggle run blocking.  With that said, the 3rd-5th best tackle (or whatever) vs the top 1-2 guards... that’s an interesting dilemma.

 

I doubt we force the issue, but if we did go with oline/LB in the first, I would expect the team goes receiver, corner and rb/te/fs/OL with their next picks.

[Going Commando]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yeah I already have background in S&C and the mental coaching aspect. Any time you train an athlete in a sport is comes through a holistic approach. Not just a positional role. 

 

That's what I don't get about the way it was described in the article.  From the sounds of it, the parents were having to pay for separate coaches and discrete sessions for QB skills vs S&C vs speed, etc.  Maybe it's separate coaches all run through the same organization, but if not, it seems like being able to go to like an academy to get holistic coaching would be a better value for the athletes.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

That's what I don't get about the way it was described in the article.  From the sounds of it, the parents were having to pay for separate coaches and discrete sessions for QB skills vs S&C vs speed, etc.  Maybe it's separate coaches all run through the same organization, but if not, it seems like being able to go to like an academy to get holistic coaching would be a better value for the athletes.

It is at times as you described. Others these guys use each other to link services to create a higher cost and help each other obtain clients.